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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
14
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated
Most warfare these days is done with faction ammo, faction guns, faction mods and since it is a TEST server where TQ can be REPLICATED it seems farcical that the stuff we normally use is not on this server
CCP - we need to fit out our ships like we do on TQ - please seed faction mods, charges and ships
Thx K |
Parfait M
Born-2-Kill 0ccupational Hazzard
0
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Posted - 2011.11.09 22:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
lol faction guns |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
120
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Posted - 2011.11.09 23:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Parfait M wrote:lol faction guns
Well, the lack of faction ammo is a fair dispute. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
144
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Posted - 2011.11.10 01:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Seed faction ammo, please. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
219
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Posted - 2011.11.10 02:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seed faction ammo and all pirate ships, please. Andreus Anthony LeHane Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Animated Corporate Logos |
Jiji Hamin
Federal Defence Union Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2011.11.10 05:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Parfait M wrote:lol faction guns
srsly
but also, why don't the seed faction ammo. i think they should seed exactly what can be bought and sold on the normal market. if it requires contract or trade, not seeded the normal way. plain and simple. |
Missile War
Cell Corporation Sexy Alliance
10
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Posted - 2011.11.10 06:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
once again: if they go seed faction stuff(faction ammo/faction mods/all faction ships etc.) this will just become an EFT-warrior-heaven to test their shitfits before using em on TQ. that is not what sisi was made for, it was made for testing new stuff and to find bugs. and since faction mods etc. won't have any bugs probaly, why would they seed em? i don't work for CCP or whatever, so i don't know for sure, but thats what i think that they think. |
Captain Alcatraz
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
17
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Posted - 2011.11.10 09:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Missile War wrote:once again: if they go seed faction stuff(faction ammo/faction mods/all faction ships etc.) this will just become an EFT-warrior-heaven to test their shitfits before using em on TQ. that is not what sisi was made for, it was made for testing new stuff and to find bugs. and since faction mods etc. won't have any bugs probaly, why would they seed em? i don't work for CCP or whatever, so i don't know for sure, but thats what i think that they think.
Balancing? |
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CCP Konflikt
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
37
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Posted - 2011.11.10 09:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated
Most warfare these days is done with faction ammo, faction guns, faction mods and since it is a TEST server where TQ can be REPLICATED it seems farcical that the stuff we normally use is not on this server
CCP - we need to fit out our ships like we do on TQ - please seed faction mods, charges and ships
Thx K
CCP Konflikt wrote:The dogma effects of modules can be tested no matter what value of the effect. So for the majority of testing a 5% module is the same as a 10% module. When it has happened in the past the only notable difference was an increase in ban requests. Contracts are copied over at the start of a mirror, you can either rush to Jita on mirror day and buy them all or hope you kill someone in 6-cz49 with faction mods. The final option is to go ratting or run dead space complexes.
Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated.
This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits. |
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Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
34
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Posted - 2011.11.10 09:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
I guess i just dont understand why some faction ships are seeded and not others . . . also how am I supposed to properly test the new tier 3 battlecruisers without faction ammo which I would definitely be using on the real server as I really dont want the tracking nerf from the T2 ammo on already crappy tracking guns.
Additionally, its not like I never fit faction mods on my ships . . . you want us to test the viability of these new ships in real combat situations without giving us the ability to simulate real combat situations . . . |
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
110
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Posted - 2011.11.10 10:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Konflikt wrote:Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated. This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits. So when you guys ask us for balance feedback on, say, the Tier 3 BCs, or the new Hybrids, you are not asking us to test ship fits? We are just supposed to see if the bonuses are applied correctly?
Using T1 ammo instead of faction reduces ship damage by 15%, while leaving tanks intact. That's bound to distort any balance testing.
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bassie12bf1
Militaris Industries Cascade Imminent
5
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Posted - 2011.11.10 10:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Konflikt wrote:Klandi wrote:Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated
Most warfare these days is done with faction ammo, faction guns, faction mods and since it is a TEST server where TQ can be REPLICATED it seems farcical that the stuff we normally use is not on this server
CCP - we need to fit out our ships like we do on TQ - please seed faction mods, charges and ships
Thx K CCP Konflikt wrote:The dogma effects of modules can be tested no matter what value of the effect. So for the majority of testing a 5% module is the same as a 10% module. When it has happened in the past the only notable difference was an increase in ban requests. Contracts are copied over at the start of a mirror, you can either rush to Jita on mirror day and buy them all or hope you kill someone in 6-cz49 with faction mods. The final option is to go ratting or run dead space complexes. Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated. This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.
It might be a good idea to seed all hybrid related faction items and ships for proper testing.
I mean, after all you can't be careful enough when you change things. |
Alsyth
Night Warder
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 11:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:CCP Konflikt wrote:Yes - this AGAIN but it needs to be repeated. This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits. So when you guys ask us for balance feedback on, say, the Tier 3 BCs, or the new Hybrids, you are not asking us to test ship fits? We are just supposed to see if the bonuses are applied correctly? Using T1 ammo instead of faction reduces ship damage by 15%, while leaving tanks intact. That's bound to distort any balance testing.
This...
Faction items are not needed, but faction ammo should totally be seeded if CCP really wants us to test the balance of ships (at least empire faction ammo).
Faction/Pirate ships too, it's just plain dumb to have only Machs and Nights on test server and no Vindis/Fed Navy Megas when you want us to test HYBRID FIXES and the balance with ships that use them... |
Sirinda
Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild
11
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Posted - 2011.11.10 11:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Konflikt wrote:This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits.
O...k...
There's so much wrong with this statement, I don't know where to start.
For one, if you say this is not a server to test balancing issues on, and I think I can safely say your statement here can be reduced to that, then what the **** are new ships and tweaked weapon systems doing on it?
How the hell are we supposed to give feedback whether or not we think these weapons and ships are balanced if you don't give us the tools to do so?
Right now, you're trying to make us twist a screw with pliers instead of giving us the wrench to do it properly.
Also, how would this work to your disadvantage?
Seriously, you sound like a troll. And we have enough of these on the forums already. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
110
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Posted - 2011.11.10 12:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alsyth wrote:Faction items are not needed, but faction ammo should totally be seeded if CCP really wants us to test the balance of ships (at least empire faction ammo).
Emphasizing this. Stuff that's rare in TQ shouldn't be seeded, it would just lead to people flying full officer fit cruisers and claiming they are fine and balanced.
But empire faction ammo is the standard PVP ammo on TQ. Not seeding it on the test server makes no sense.
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Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
49
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Posted - 2011.11.10 12:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sirinda wrote:CCP Konflikt wrote:This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits. O...k... There's so much wrong with this statement, I don't know where to start. For one, if you say this is not a server to test balancing issues on, and I think I can safely say your statement here can be reduced to that, then what the **** are new ships and tweaked weapon systems doing on it? How the hell are we supposed to give feedback whether or not we think these weapons and ships are balanced if you don't give us the tools to do so? Right now, you're trying to make us twist a screw with pliers instead of giving us the wrench to do it properly. Also, how would this work to your disadvantage? Seriously, you sound like a troll. And we have enough of these on the forums already. ahem... screwdriver, not a wrench.
carry on. |
Sirinda
Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild
12
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Posted - 2011.11.10 12:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Sirinda wrote:CCP Konflikt wrote:This is a test server... for testing bugs, not ship fits. O...k... There's so much wrong with this statement, I don't know where to start. For one, if you say this is not a server to test balancing issues on, and I think I can safely say your statement here can be reduced to that, then what the **** are new ships and tweaked weapon systems doing on it? How the hell are we supposed to give feedback whether or not we think these weapons and ships are balanced if you don't give us the tools to do so? Right now, you're trying to make us twist a screw with pliers instead of giving us the wrench to do it properly. Also, how would this work to your disadvantage? Seriously, you sound like a troll. And we have enough of these on the forums already. ahem... screwdriver, not a wrench. carry on.
Lag screw then. Satisfied? |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.11.10 14:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vindicator in particular would be nice..... |
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
232
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Posted - 2011.11.10 14:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Faction stuff haz bugs too.. F&ID: Skill Training, Agent Finder What is CCP Guard gonna do with that grenade? |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
67
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Posted - 2011.11.10 14:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think what it basically comes down to is that they want to avoid spending time working on the test server when they're all busy making a new winter expansion. This I can sort of understand but just say this rather than giving some terrible argument about how you don't need the full suite of items to test for balance. |
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Ariane VoxDei
10
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Posted - 2011.11.10 15:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just give us a rightclick "spawn this" option for fits on sisi and be done with it.
Put in a jove/devthings filter (to avoid unintended fits) if you must.
Would really improve testing speed a lot, not to forget easing setting up for mass test participation. |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
17
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Posted - 2011.11.10 15:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ariane VoxDei wrote:Just give us a rightclick "spawn this" option for fits on sisi and be done with it.
Put in a jove/devthings filter (to avoid unintended fits) if you must.
Would really improve testing speed a lot, not to forget easing setting up for mass test participation.
Damn fine idea - however I would like to go one step further...
You can still have the joy of playing around with manual fitting out your ship OR
You bring up a load-out of what you want on your ship in the fitting screen (or your fc says that this is the loadout for this ship and posts the fitting) and click "fit ship" If you have the modules in your hanger as well as the ship hull - they are assembled in the order presented on the fitting. If not, it would highlight what modules you need to complete the load-out.
Of course, this could then be attached to the market function and it could bring up a price/distance chart with similar types of module if you desire, but that might take a bit more thought and programming.
and to end on a rebuttal, Konflik1 ...
A test server needs to test real life scenarios - and the repercussions might be that it will be used as a EFT environment BUT your returning information will be more precise and can be used in multiple areas as it accurately portrays the tested item. Facts can only be called factual if the same thing is compared. |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
17
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Posted - 2011.11.11 01:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Need some more weight behind this ppl ...... |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
293
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Posted - 2011.11.11 22:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sooo.
You want us to test / provide feedback on the veracity of a 25% damage buff to destroyers, whilst suffering a 15% damage penalty "because it's about bugs"
So what am I meant to conclude from a fight I narrowly lose ... that it would work on TQ? Do I need to FRAPS everything I do, and add in a 15% damage boost to my calculations?
I'm fine with "this is a server for finding bugs" - but could you kindly then provide another server for testing for balance? - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Oberine Noriepa
178
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Posted - 2011.11.11 23:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Speaking of faction items, do any of you have a Sisters Core Probe Launcher? Mind parting with one on Singularity? |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
18
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Posted - 2011.11.12 10:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Sooo.
You want us to test / provide feedback on the veracity of a 25% damage buff to destroyers, whilst suffering a 15% damage penalty "because it's about bugs"
So what am I meant to conclude from a fight I narrowly lose ... that it would work on TQ? Do I need to FRAPS everything I do, and add in a 15% damage boost to my calculations?
I'm fine with "this is a server for finding bugs" - but could you kindly then provide another server for testing for balance?
Lets look specifically at bugs...
A bug CAN reside in any and all code and a bug can also be defined as a unintended reaction to an event. Testing for the bug requires that the situation be replicated and fixing it will not proceed unless the situation can be replicated. Balance (or lack of) can also be categorised as an event that is unintended and so can occupy the same area as the bug - and in fact, the bug could be causing the imbalance.
Replication of unintended events needs to happen in a reproducible fashion. That means that the situation MUST mirror.
Give us faction stuff on sisi to help find the bugs |
Kellen Shimaya
5
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Posted - 2011.11.12 16:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
No. thats a horrible idea, and it always will be. the bugs will be found by the people who have those certain items on tq, or they were smart, and used contracts at the beginning of the mirror. I mean have you seen the main system? its baalgorns and vindicators as far as the eye can see, and dont you tell me they are testing a fit they have on tq. With this faction battleship spam, you actually cannot really test anything because it is NOTHING like TQ, fighting-wise anyways. If you want a certain shiny item or ship you have on tq, then be my quest and go pick it up, because i believe thats what you should have to do to go get your shiny stuff. THAT replicates TQ pretty damn well. So, to restate, your idea is horrid, kthx
EDIT: I do agree that navy faction ammo needs to be seeded, but i think only navy ammo for all races should be seeded, not pirate factions, and going from my above statement, i believe all faction ships need to be un-seeded. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
283
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Posted - 2011.11.12 16:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 on faction ammo. And maybe things like tracking enhancers or modules after a stats change. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
9
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Posted - 2011.11.13 03:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
+1 Oderint Dum Metuant |
Jiji Hamin
Federal Defence Union Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2011.11.13 04:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adding faction mods would jsut further invite people to treat sisi as a place to use dreamfits rather than an area for testing. ANd your arguments are valid for why it would make little or no difference. HOWEVER, seeding faction ammo only makes sense as faction ammo is far more widely used and fits into ammo balance differently than faction mods fit into module balance. |
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