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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8923
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:15:00 -
[391] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Looks like carriers have been relegated to having no place in sov war besides repping. Maybe, and as a newly minted carrier pilot I can't say I mind this terribly. Drone assist needed to be nerfed. My EVE Videos 59-15 |
Kappy Ukap
K For Kill
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:15:00 -
[392] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:CCP Rise wrote: We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy. Assist places too much control in the hands of a single person and leaves the majority of the fleet with little to do. Have you had players complain about assigning drones? Are you aware nearly everyone's number one complaint in large fleet fights is tidi? Players assist because tidi makes this game unplayable in large fleet/capital confrontations. Assisting drones so someone can watch a movie or play DotA is actually how Eve Online is played at the Capital/mass tidi level. That entire statement is a ridiculous justification for the change. You don't need to justify it. Just do it. It doesn't matter because the better groups using Sentries NEVER use a single trigger anyway. So now instead of 1 guy being the assist and 9 guys doing something else, 1 guy will be the assist and 4 guys will be doing something else. Fix tidi and you fix a lot of problems. This change is just lipstick on a pig.
If you read the statistics on the HED battle, Drone assist doctrines caused x5 more server load than a normal doctrine would in a battle of that size. Because the server has to process 5 or 10 drones PER sentry ship using assist.
And you'd require an extremely powerful server to process ALL of EVE itself as well as the +4000 battles. The drone assist fix will reducing lag and reducing terrible AFK doctrines. EVE is meant to be played, not left.
Server side: Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost? |
yogizh
Underworld Protection Agency Fatal Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:15:00 -
[393] - Quote
CCP please delete all CFC accounts, because N3 and buddies is whining. Whatever you do, they will complain and then claim how bad CFC is. Make nullified drone boats with jump drive that launch swarms of uncatchable interceptors, because running from fights is what EVE Online is meant to be. Players should anchor up and play cookie whatever is it.
Really guys ? This is what you are all about ? This is a change that only CFC will profit from ? I apologize for playing this game with faction that you dislike, but your logic escapes me. Your arguments are childish. |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
273
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:17:00 -
[394] - Quote
God damn Goons! Ruining parts of the game I don't have anything to do with since I mine veld in Empire! ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1710
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:17:00 -
[395] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Looks like carriers have been relegated to having no place in sov war besides repping.
With one section of eve having such overwhelming subcap superiority, you have managed to create the greatest push towards NAP and NIPing everyone in sight (including your previous enemies), what with one side being massively more powerful but content to sit upon their hoard and sleep, and the other side unable to contest the mass of warm bodies in subcaps that the other side can throw around.
All celebrate the Hegemony of the North, next Deklein sov change inc 2027.
It's all and well to make changes to mechanics based on how you feel they are negatively impacting the game, but this mechanic was one of the main mechanics preventing the state of nullsec from devolving to everyone turtling up. A will still wipe the floor with B, B will do the same to the C, and everyone will sit on their throne of renters and grow fat.
And nullsec complacency and boredom are imo, far more dangerous in the long term to eve than a passive gameplay mechanic.
do not worry the sov changes greyscale proposed in 2011 will fix blobing once and for all!
oh wait. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1151
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:18:00 -
[396] - Quote
It's not a bad change, but I don't think it addresses any of the /actual/ problems. Carrier blobs will still be incredibly efficient at defending objectives - which is where they are used now. Killing things will certainly be slower, there is no doubt about that, but does it matter if you're not dying and I can still kill you anywhere on grid?
Domis are very strong /not/ because they can focus fire every 4 seconds, but because they have cruiser -level tracking combined with BS-level damage and sniper-level range. Sentry carriers existed long before the Domi got a boost, and almost nobody (save for blackhorizon) even considered using drone assign subcaps because they weren't that great. The only thing that changed between then and now is that Domis got a massive boost to sentry tracking and range.
If you truly want to nerf drone usage, then look at what makes them overpowered. Omnidirectionals are going to become scripted, but that doesn't solve the problem either. What about having Omnidirectionals, Drone Damage Amps, and Drone Links STACK with one another so you can't get absurd tracking, damage, AND range simultaneously? Make a mechanic so that someone with 50+ drones assigned to him has a visible effect. Heck, give a signature penalty if someone is controlling 50+ drones. Alternatively have the drone-assign guy inherit the lowest lock range. There are dozens of creative ways where you can solve the problem, instead of trying to band-aid one of the perceived abuses.
The balance team has consistently been knocking out home runs on everything it touches, so this completely underwhelming and uninspired change comes as a total surprise. So I implore you - look at what is wrong and fix that instead of trying to patch one use. Drones will keep making fires until you do. ~ |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1710
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:18:00 -
[397] - Quote
Victor Dathar wrote:God damn Goons! Ruining parts of the game I don't have anything to do with since I mine veld in Empire! goon logic...
am i currently at war with this corp/alliance?
answer yes: flame about he does not have enough friends
answer no: flame how he apparently lives in high sec and mines veld. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
135
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:19:00 -
[398] - Quote
Carriers (especially Archons) were worthless before DDAs and Omnis. You literally could not give a carrier away until those modules were introduced. There was zero benefit to fielding one then and there is zero benefit to fielding one now with these hare-brained changes.
Is it even possible fit other modules on this piece-of-****?
Good job, CCP. ******* bozos.
e: also I am accepting surplus Archons for a protest or something idk |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
441
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:19:00 -
[399] - Quote
BoomBoss wrote:Venetian Tar wrote:BoomBoss wrote:So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?
It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again? We won the war and even abused the **** out of it ourselves before these changes were announced, but keep crying about it. You haven't won the war, it isn't over yet. There was just a loss of a lot of shiny boats and we lose a region. Big f*cking deal!
THIS CRUISE ISN'T OVER!!!
- Edward Smith, April 15th 1912 The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
BoomBoss
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
13
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:19:00 -
[400] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:1Of9 wrote:Malcanis wrote:BoomBoss wrote:So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?
It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again? So what you're saying is that if you can't get someone else to decide when and who to shoot at on your behalf, you're not able to fight players as bad as goons are? dont think that's what he said. I beleive what he said was that goons have vastly superior numbers, and slowcats was the only platform that could allow a smaller entity to face them. Even slowcats where endangered species because goons where already adapting to them (damps, ecm, neuts, dreads, etc). Put a 250 rail rokh fleet with 5 triage carriers facing 4 goon fleets. Let me know who murdered who. Ok so the counter to not having any friends was not having to actually control your stuff in the game and in an MMO requiring social interaction that's viewed as a bad thing. I hope this explanation has pounded its way into your skull.
There was more then enough social interraction on mumble, or that does not count? It HAS to be ingame? This game is not just about the game you know. The interration was there, and it is always epic. |
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Llyona
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC Brothers of Tangra
43
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:19:00 -
[401] - Quote
Kappy Ukap wrote: Server side: Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost?
It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet. EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Kappy Ukap
K For Kill
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:22:00 -
[402] - Quote
Llyona wrote:Kappy Ukap wrote: Server side: Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost?
It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet.
Then why not tell the people who are complaining about the Server being weak to build their own server. |
Zomgnomnom
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Northern Associates.
23
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:23:00 -
[403] - Quote
Elise Randolph wrote:It's not a bad change, but I don't think it addresses any of the /actual/ problems. Carrier blobs will still be incredibly efficient at defending objectives - which is where they are used now. Killing things will certainly be slower, there is no doubt about that, but does it matter if you're not dying and I can still kill you anywhere on grid?
Domis are very strong /not/ because they can focus fire every 4 seconds, but because they have cruiser -level tracking combined with BS-level damage and sniper-level range. Sentry carriers existed long before the Domi got a boost, and almost nobody (save for blackhorizon) even considered using drone assign subcaps because they weren't that great. The only thing that changed between then and now is that Domis got a massive boost to sentry tracking and range.
If you truly want to nerf drone usage, then look at what makes them overpowered. Omnidirectionals are going to become scripted, but that doesn't solve the problem either. What about having Omnidirectionals, Drone Damage Amps, and Drone Links STACK with one another so you can't get absurd tracking, damage, AND range simultaneously? Make a mechanic so that someone with 50+ drones assigned to him has a visible effect. Heck, give a signature penalty if someone is controlling 50+ drones. Alternatively have the drone-assign guy inherit the lowest lock range. There are dozens of creative ways where you can solve the problem, instead of trying to band-aid one of the perceived abuses.
The balance team has consistently been knocking out home runs on everything it touches, so this completely underwhelming and uninspired change comes as a total surprise. So I implore you - look at what is wrong and fix that instead of trying to patch one use. Drones will keep making fires until you do.
Careful there Elise, you're dangerously close to making sense here. The goonies won't like that one bit. It pokes holes in Mittens narrative. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2006
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:23:00 -
[404] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why 50? That still seems too much. I can only control 5 drones from my ship natively, but for some reason I can use 50 from others? One squad of 10 ships = 50 drones. |
Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:25:00 -
[405] - Quote
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
As a pilot with investment in leadership skills, [BIAS DISCLOSED], it would better neat to have a way for those to play into drone assist in someway.
Skilling up to fly links takes a while and commitment, but isn't used very often in casual/impromptu fleets. The gap between Leadership V and 5/5/5/5 to being able to fly links is pretty long with not a lot of benefits while you are on that path.
Having drone assist capabilities tied to specific leadership skills might be a way to make the skills more useful to those that have invested the time.
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1710
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:25:00 -
[406] - Quote
Llyona wrote:Kappy Ukap wrote: Server side: Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost?
It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet.
and yet still use single core processing...
its 2014 not 2003... eve code needs a complete re-write from scratch... it might take several years but should be a priority just like crimewatch rewrite was. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Viktor Fel
Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:26:00 -
[407] - Quote
This is a step in the right direction CCP
Maybe soon we can have some internet spaceship diversity once more. For months it has been nothing but drone boats and it was just irritating. All I was seeing in fights was ceptors, domis, caps and supers; bad-fleets where half the people are afk after hitting drone assist.; a bunch more tidi due to all the drones in a given fight system.
Insidious Empire FC (Ret.)Tear Harvesting V, SkillTraining Complete.-á |
progodlegend
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
147
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:27:00 -
[408] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:We went through all the use cases we could think of, and 50 dones was enough for every reasonable use. If we missed any (EVE is big!), then let us know. But it's pretty hard to think of a non abusive case that 50 dones won't be enough for.
For as long as we discussed every single possible angle for abusing drone assign, I hope we covered everything. Glad to finally see the change in game. |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
441
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:27:00 -
[409] - Quote
What if there is a smaller drone inside?! The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:28:00 -
[410] - Quote
CCP, don't listen to the haters. You did the right thing. :happysun:
Sentry Drones V, you can wait a few months. |
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Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
157
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:28:00 -
[411] - Quote
Good change CCP, these mechanics have needed a change for awhile imo. I'm a little bit concerned about the cap being 50, that seems a little bit low when you consider that's a grand total of 10 drone ships (I think 100 would have been a bit better of a number). For example, if I'm bashing a POS with 24 of my friends and we all can field a full complement of drones (unlikely given what we fly but stick with me here) then we would need 2.5, so 3, drone bunnies as opposed to the current 1. If the cap was 100 then we would only need 1.25 drone bunnies (so 2), and given that our fleet is unlikely to be composed of many drone ships we could reasonably continue having 1 person manage the fleets drones while the rest of us manage our guns/watch d-scan/ect. Just some perspective from the little guy. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
1114
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:29:00 -
[412] - Quote
BoomBoss wrote:Venetian Tar wrote:BoomBoss wrote:So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?
It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again? We won the war and even abused the **** out of it ourselves before these changes were announced, but keep crying about it. You haven't won the war, it isn't over yet. There was just a loss of a lot of shiny boats and we lose a region. Big f*cking deal!
Three regions, at least, and that's assuming you don't fail cascade over getting your big shiny toys taken away. But lets not quibble, the important thing to remember is that N3 is terrible at EVE. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1711
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:30:00 -
[413] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Why 50? That still seems too much. I can only control 5 drones from my ship natively, but for some reason I can use 50 from others? One squad of 10 ships = 50 drones.
yes 10 carriers makes 100 drones... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
508
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:30:00 -
[414] - Quote
While the decided limit of 50 drones seems fair enough except to carrier pilots perhaps, the same could have been accomplished by adjusting the available bandwidth of ships. Skills would still limit any one individual subcap pilot to 5 drones at a time and carriers to 10, while a trigger ship could be responsible for up to how ever many sentries, smalls, or what-have-you, will fill its allotment of bandwidth.
In this way you could have carriers with 12500Mb of bandwidth and thus able to use 100 sentries, one full squad of assigned sentry drones. A Dominix would have 7500Mb, and able to trigger for 50 sentries. They could ofc also trigger for a metric ****-tonne of warriors. But why you would want to do that other than to intentionally cause lag, I don't know.
Small ships like interceptors could have only a couple smalls assigned.
Its kind of silly to even have bandwidth since it almost never comes into play except on a few certain ships with odd amounts of bandwidth like 40 or 75Mb. Free Ripley Weaver! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8923
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:30:00 -
[415] - Quote
Llyona wrote:It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet. The "next gen" server platforms aren't coming. My EVE Videos 59-15 |
Onisean
Bohemian Veterans Nulli Secunda
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:37:00 -
[416] - Quote
Johan March wrote:CCP, don't listen to the haters. You did the right thing. :happysun:
Sentry Drones V, you can wait a few months. Wow, so unexpected from a goon to like this change. |
Tags'n Ammo
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:38:00 -
[417] - Quote
Good change. A carrier without a triage module should be as worthless as a dread without siege. |
progodlegend
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
147
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:41:00 -
[418] - Quote
Tags'n Ammo wrote:Good change. A carrier without a triage module should be as worthless as a dread without siege.
So like, I support this drone assign nerf entirely, even helped argue for it. But this statement is pretty ********. |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
286
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:41:00 -
[419] - Quote
Tags'n Ammo wrote:Good change. A carrier without a triage module should be as worthless as a dread without siege. Cannot tell if troll. It would be better if dreads without siege could be as useful as a carrier without triage. Obligatory modules does not make for interesting choices. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
354
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:42:00 -
[420] - Quote
Kappy Ukap wrote:If you read the statistics on the HED battle, Drone assist doctrines caused x5 more server load than a normal doctrine would in a battle of that size. This nerf doesn't address that at all.
Kappy Ukap wrote:And you'd require an extremely powerful server to process ALL of EVE itself as well as the +4000 battles. The drone assist fix will reducing lag and reducing terrible AFK doctrines. EVE is meant to be played, not left. Then fix tidi. The problem is tidi, not drone assist. People afk in 6 hour tidi fights. No one sits at their computer for 6 straight hours if they don't have drones deployed.
Also, AFK doctrines make tidi not terrible.
To repeat myself, no one competent who runs drone assist only uses one trigger.
Kappy Ukap wrote:And it isn't possible to put EVE on a more powerful server, EVE is running the most powerful servers it can. How do you have personal, first hand knowledge of this?
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