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stoicfaux
4054
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Posted - 2014.02.10 05:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
A debate recently came up about whether high-sec level 4 missions paid too much compared to a certain PvE activity in null-sec. It's been "common" knowledge that level 4s can provide 100M+ isk per hour if you blitz for LP. However, the null-sec PvE in question generated liquid isk, whereas LP is problematic with the time it takes to convert the LP to isk. So I decided to run a bunch of "full clear" or "kill all" missions in a Vargur to see how much liquid isk high-sec level 4s can generate. The goal was to see how much "liquid" isk level 4s generated.
Here's the google docs spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvCLlTV8bSxNdGxsWTZLV3NHbzZKanVSUG1FRUxILXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 You'll want to scroll down to the bottom to see the summary/results/per hour numbers. The Vargur fitting is in the spreadsheet on the "Ship Fitting" tab.
Results: After 7 hours of missioning in a Vargur, I generated: * 307M in isk * 69M in salvage (@jita buy order) * 152M in loot (per in-game estimate, Hek is closest hub) * 22M in ammo costs * 2M in misc expenses (repairs, lost drones, etc.)
For 505M isk in assets or ~71M isk in assets per hour (not including LP.) * Liquid ISK 43.3M per hour * Salvage ISK 9.8M per hour * Loot ISK 21.5M per hour * Ammo Costs -3M per hour * Other Expenses -0.3M per hour * Total Assets 71.3M per hour
With LP: 0 isk/lp: 72M/hour 800 isk/lp: 86M/hour 1,000 isk/lp: 90M/hour 2,000 isk/lp: 109M/hour 3,000 isk/lp: 127M/hour
Twenty-one missions were run with four declined.
Average mission time: 20m14s Average travel time: 3m21s (16.6%) Average time in mission: 16m16s (80.4%)
Average # of Jumps to missions: 0.52 Average distance traveled to/from mission: 55.33 AU
Caveats: * 21 missions isn't a very large sample size. * multiple missions were declined per four hour block (4 declines total) * Missions were "full clear"/"kill all" where everything except for sentry guns and the occasional frigate were killed. * Once all the NPCs in a pocket were dead, I left, leaving any remaining salvage and loot on the field.
Observations I am quite surprised at how much income "clear all" (i.e. not blitzing) brought in. Loot could be especially variable, such as the three AE runs which provided anywhere from 6M to 30M in loot. Oddly enough, with a decent isk/LP conversion rate and/or with cherry-picking, "clear all" missions can generate 100M+/hour, so blitzing level 4s for income isn't necessarily necessary. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4060
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Posted - 2014.02.10 15:30:00 -
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March rabbit wrote:stoicfaux wrote: Caveats: * 21 missions isn't a very large sample size. * multiple missions were declined per four hour block (4 declines total)
so you got 4 declines for 21 mission. Is there any prediction how long you could continue this chain until your agent will stop to talk to you? Or at the end your standings with agent became higher? Another question: which security status of system you used for mission running? Am i right agent didn't give you missions into low-sec? 25 missions were offered. 0.5 system. The declined ones were for low-sec (plus one of them was also 3 jumps away which isn't going to happen just on general principles.)
I've got a spreadsheet(tm) somewhere that looks at how often you can decline before losing the agent. There's a good bit of leeway. You can always hop on sisi and try things out.
Note to self: write a standings random walk simulator?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4080
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Posted - 2014.02.12 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've updated the spreadsheet with 30 missions (plus 5 declines) with a wider range of missions. Which didn't change the numbers that much.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4088
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Posted - 2014.02.13 18:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Very nice Stoicfaux. Of course someone will be along shortly to contest what you are saying lol.
But this is why there are high sec mission alts, and a smallish part of the reason why almost half of the 90k characters in SOV holding alliances aren't in null sec (of course there are other reason, like cyno alts and hauler alts etc). There is no need to be out there. the other important factor being the number of active people in system. I remember back with belt ratting a system could only handle 2 or so ratters (and i think that was a good system with 20ish belts), Anoms increase this a bit, but well only a bit. Yup. On one hand anoms aren't scalable and are subject to sudden PvP.
On the other hand, if an Ishtar can make 70M in liquid isk running anoms, can you imagine what could be done with a Marauder?
Compared to high-sec, if the scalability and security problems were "solved", null anoms would be insane income. Especially when you consider that a Level 3 Ishtar can make ~50M isk, most of which is in LP, or that my Level 4 Vargur was making ~40M in liquid isk and the remaining 30M isk in loot and salvage. If you add in the "secure ESS" the Goons have developed, then Ishtar anom income could jump to 75M isk + 14,700 LP (worth ~12M at 800 isk/LP) for ~87M isk/hour in assets. Anom income in a marauder would most likely put level 4s to shame.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4090
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Posted - 2014.02.13 19:42:00 -
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Batelle wrote:stoicfaux wrote: On the other hand, if an Ishtar can make 70M in liquid isk running anoms, can you imagine what could be done with a Marauder?
I'm guessing only 10%-20% better on bounties as my anom-running ishtar fits do 817 dps. But then you have loot/salvage on top. The Ishtar was using Wasps, so damage projection wasn't optimal: http://eve-search.com/thread/311310-1/page/71#2101
So unless anoms spawn everything at short range, income would probably be a lot higher than 10-20%.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4096
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Posted - 2014.02.14 14:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:don't tell me you did this because some ****** goon claimed that anoms can't compete with Lv 4's? Some people play the game. Some people play the meta-game. And for some people, the game is how they pay their rent.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4098
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Posted - 2014.02.14 19:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:How much LP/h did you make? 16,539 LP/hour. It's been added in B82.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4103
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Posted - 2014.02.15 13:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Polo Hamabu wrote:Awesome thread buddy, looking at getting a Paladin myself and this has given me renewed faith in L4's!
Spreadsheet doesn't seem to work for me for some reason, would be cool to see your fit and other details! Fitting is listed in the "Ship Fitting" tab of the spreadsheet. The spreadsheet works in chrome and firefox. No idea why it doesn't work for you.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4103
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Posted - 2014.02.15 13:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:The in game loot estimate is very hit or miss and the time taken to actually move and liquidate those assets isn't inconsiderable.
I'd be interested to see how long it takes you to do that liquidation and what the net income etc actually was. You mean refining everything when you have 500mill-1bill in loot and red frogging the minerals to jita? All of.. 5min? Well you could do that, but you'll get nowhere near as much as if you cherry pick the sales. Use EveRefinery.
I added D82 which display the mineral value of the loot. For my test run * Mineral Value of Loot ISK 14.9M per hour * Loot ISK 20.4M per hour
So there was a 5.5M / hour difference. Having said that, I was making 44M liquid isk/hour. Which means I was making 5.5M every 7.5 minutes. It's up to you as to how might time you want to spend on selling/refining. OTOH, I have a loot container with items worth 361M in refined minerals or worth 625M at median sell price in the Forge.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4401
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Posted - 2014.04.05 02:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Couple of minor updates. I've added the 45% loot nerf (rows 116 through 128) and I've adjusted the LP to Security Connections V. (The data was with IV.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4402
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Posted - 2014.04.05 11:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:stoicfaux wrote: ... Update: You can still make a nice income without blitzing for LP to the point that I have to wonder if blitzing for LP is still "better."
Very nice spreadsheet. Loot vs blitz is in a good spot right now. Players can choose to blitz or choose to loot and not see a drastic difference. Unfortunately, it looks like CCPs reprocessing nerf will make blitzing the clear winner. Even with the reprocessing nerf, looting looks to be competitive.
Blitzing numbers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=334784&find=unread
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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stoicfaux
4408
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Posted - 2014.04.05 22:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:So I'm curious. When it comes to loot are you just cherry picking loot with your tractors and salvage drones? Do you drop a MTU? I drop an MTU and will tractor in wrecks (3x tractor IIs) for the salvage drones to work on. The only cherry picking I do is to prioritize battleship wrecks for tractoring first.
Quote:I have generally found just Cherry picking wrecks is a good compromise vs wasting time looting everything after the rats all die. Once the NPCs were dead, I left. I did not stick around to loot everything. Even so, IIRC, Mordus Headhunters was the only mission in which I left a lot of wrecks with loot on the field; enough that I was considering leaving an MTU and coming back later for the loot.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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