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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
494
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Posted - 2014.02.14 22:01:00 -
[391] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked. If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.
I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:06:00 -
[392] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked. If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too. I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals.
too bad none of those rebuttals have been backed up credible statements by CCP or evidence with methods outlined so they can be reproduced by anyone.
Again. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:07:00 -
[393] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked. If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too. I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals. I guess you missed all the rebuttals to your points.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
494
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:09:00 -
[394] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked. If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too. I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals. too bad none of those rebuttals have been backed up credible statements by CCP or evidence with methods outlined so they can be reproduced by anyone. Again.
The last time I asked for the specific dev blogs in question backing up his specific claims....
The guy just vomited a bunch of personal attacks into the thread.
No links. No data. No evidence. Just a bunch of "GRRR RAWAARAWARRAR u are DUM!!!" |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
494
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:13:00 -
[395] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked. If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too. I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals. I guess you missed all the rebuttals to your points.
Yeah, here's an excellent one:
Quote:It's because you live in a world of denial. you could test it for yourself. You never have because you aren't interested in the truth and you know it.
rofl.
I couldn't even make this stuff up if I wanted to. No mention of what "it" is that I should be "testing."
Maybe I'm supposed to run 10 missions in a row and then compare that to 10 forsaken hubs and use that as the universal difference between two entire areas of EVE Online.
Or perhaps I don't know what "it" is because I'm just "not interested in the truth."
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:19:00 -
[396] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Maybe I'm supposed to run 10 missions in a row and then compare that to 10 forsaken hubs and use that as the universal difference between two entire areas of EVE Online. It would certainly be more productive than continuing to flail around in this thread.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
494
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:26:00 -
[397] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Maybe I'm supposed to run 10 missions in a row and then compare that to 10 forsaken hubs and use that as the universal difference between two entire areas of EVE Online. It would certainly be more productive than continuing to flail around in this thread.
I disagree. One of these activities is absolutely hilarious from my own personal experience.
The other activity proves and accomplishes nothing. |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
271
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:27:00 -
[398] - Quote
oh look this thread turned to highsec vs nullsec I bet no one saw this coming Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
271
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 22:30:00 -
[399] - Quote
so the state of null is for it to change every 7 years? worth! Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1167
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 23:49:00 -
[400] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Small guys stay small guys because they don't feel like sucking up to some Alliance's middle management, they don't have the resources to compete, or perhaps they don't have the time to dedicate to Eve's rediculous Sov mechanics and bureaucratic alliance nonsense. I sure don't. Nullsec simply isn't suitable for how we want to play, and lowsec is losing it's charm rapidly. Hisec (wardecs) and wormhole space (unrestricted PVP) are simply better, more enjoyable alternatives then living in the shadow of a colossus.
Right there we have the answer folks, people that refuse to engage in diplomacy and politics can't get anywhere in a multiplayer game. E: They literally don't feel like doing what it takes to succeed.
I never said I never got anywhere, and I sure as hell do not shun from diplomacy and politics. I post a little to much on my main to be able to claim that with a straight face.
However, you are 100% correct I do not feel like doing what it takes to succeed according to nullsec's primary metrics, both player driven or hardcoded sov mechanics. I have other motivations to keep me engaged in Eve Online, motivations powerfull enough to keep enjoying it too. The OP's question was if the little guy had a chance of gaining a foothold in nullsec. I just think wspace and hisec are more suitable, with lowsec as another option that's starting to lose appeal in this context.
I don't think they do because of their very nature. His second question is whether or not that is healthy for the game. While I would absolutely love the idea of many many mini-states encroaching on each others borders like feudal europe, I have a feeling the people that benefit of nullsecs current state would think otherwise. If the majority of players and devs prefer it's current state then yes, that is healthy for the game, indifferent of anyones personal opinion. |
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
825
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:00:00 -
[401] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Rhes wrote:Actually that's a horrible idea. Marlona is just mad that they lost the war. There are currently no drawbacks to teleportation in EvE, and this is something that should exist. To be honest, I really don't care about the movement of capitals via teleportation, but I very much think bridging needs to have some limits similar to Marlona's suggestion. Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea. It would give new alliances a fighting chance. It would be AWFUL for goons - they will never support it. The current status quo of defending and attacking anything from anywhere benefits them far too much for them to ever want that changed.
LOL
Yeah so what happens when the CFC goes offensive. We can dump the the N3's active numbers plus TEST, and pretty much every large FW and Pirate entity wherever we need to.
Who is going to slow that down? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3533
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:07:00 -
[402] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Rhes wrote:Actually that's a horrible idea. Marlona is just mad that they lost the war. There are currently no drawbacks to teleportation in EvE, and this is something that should exist. To be honest, I really don't care about the movement of capitals via teleportation, but I very much think bridging needs to have some limits similar to Marlona's suggestion. Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea. It would give new alliances a fighting chance. It would be AWFUL for goons - they will never support it. The current status quo of defending and attacking anything from anywhere benefits them far too much for them to ever want that changed. LOL Yeah so what happens when the CFC goes offensive. We can dump the the N3's active numbers plus TEST, and pretty much every large FW and Pirate entity wherever we need to. Who is going to slow that down?
The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
825
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:12:00 -
[403] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.
.....oh so who can support more fronts? Anything that "helps the little guy" helps the big guys more.
So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. With 30 some odd thousand members we can zerg down most allainces quickly and easily.
Removing the timers would just make it faster because the smaller guy wouldn't have the time to batphone.
Removing jump mechanics just makes it MORE ******* annoying to live in null. Ever been to Paragon Soul, or Cache, or The Spire they are 4+ REGIONS deep into null, + a region sometimes two of null sec. Removing the ability to get **** in and out would just mean that the game is more annoying that its worth. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:17:00 -
[404] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.
This would just encourage even bigger coalitions.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4874
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:17:00 -
[405] - Quote
Onictus wrote:So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. The same thing that allowed them to take the systems to begin with. . |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
825
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:22:00 -
[406] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Onictus wrote:So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. The same thing that allowed them to take the systems to begin with.
I can't be the only one that sees the humor of a member of NC.....of ALL alliances.....calling to nerf jump drives.
Not like that is your schtick or anything. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3533
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:34:00 -
[407] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.
This would just encourage even bigger coalitions.
Would it?
Coalitions mean you have to travel farther to get a fight. When jump logistics (bridging) is limited, so you must fly in space, that 50 systems to find an opponent matters much more than flying 30 systems. And if most of the coalition is fighting in the south, they won't have the ability to quickly move back and forth to curb-stomp a new threat. With strict limits on teleportation, where troops are in the universe matters, fronts matter, etc... It is more likely coalitions will collapse under their own weight, especially if they are fragmented across too many zones and members feel left out or unsupported.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:39:00 -
[408] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Onictus wrote:So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. The same thing that allowed them to take the systems to begin with. I can't be the only one that sees the humor of a member of NC.....of ALL alliances.....calling to nerf jump drives. Not like that is your schtick or anything. Surely NCDot could fall back on their proven record of subcap supremecy.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:41:00 -
[409] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Rhes wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:The main idea is that multi-front wars will matter. Travel between fronts would generally involve FiS as opposed to teleportation (i.e. jump mechanics), making it very hard to fight on several fronts, especially since your travel routes can be intercepted more easily.
This would just encourage even bigger coalitions. Would it? Coalitions mean you have to travel farther to get a fight. When jump logistics (bridging) is limited, so you must fly in space, that 50 systems to find an opponent matters much more than flying 30 systems. And if most of the coalition is fighting in the south, they won't have the ability to quickly move back and forth to curb-stomp a new threat. With strict limits on teleportation, where troops are in the universe matters, fronts matter, etc... It is more likely coalitions will collapse under their own weight, especially if they are fragmented across too many zones and members feel left out or unsupported. Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front?
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
496
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:46:00 -
[410] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front?
And this is why you aren't in charge of alliance strategy. |
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:48:00 -
[411] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Rhes wrote:Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front? And this is why you aren't in charge of alliance strategy. Have you looked at how the CFC has waged the last few wars? We are already doing this because we haven't (until now) been able to rely on a supercap advantage.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:00:00 -
[412] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Rhes wrote:Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front? And this is why you aren't in charge of alliance strategy.
List of SOV alliances crushed by Spartan's DNA:
*crickets*
And that is (one of many reasons) why you can safely be ignored. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3534
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:02:00 -
[413] - Quote
Onictus wrote: Anything that "helps the little guy" helps the big guys more.
This isn't always true. And I'm not suggesting any mechanic that would be overpowered by scaling your coalition size.
Onictus wrote: .....oh so who can support more fronts?
So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. With 30 some odd thousand members we can zerg down most allainces quickly and easily.
A large group can split up their forces to fight on multiple fronts, where a small group won't have the resources. However, under the current situation, the large group doesn't even NEED to fight on multiple fronts, as they can transition their ENTIRE force from one front to another pretty easily. That is a problem, because the standard way for dealing with a large coalition is divide and conquer, and it's pragmatically impossible to truly divide forces.
Onictus wrote: Removing the timers would just make it faster because the smaller guy wouldn't have the time to batphone.
Again, I said remove timers on UNUSED systems... If you use the system, big or small, you get RF timers. If you don't use a system, it can be easily taken. Generally speaking, the small guys thoroughly utilize everything they can. It is the big coalitions that own huge amounts of unused territory. This mechanic would SPECIFICALLY hurt large coalitions with little impact on the small folk.
Onictus wrote: Removing jump mechanics just makes it MORE ******* annoying to live in null. Ever been to Paragon Soul, or Cache, or The Spire they are 4+ REGIONS deep into null, + a region sometimes two of low sec. Removing the ability to get **** in and out would just mean that the game is more annoying that its worth.
[/quote]
I've destroyed ships in Every region of the game, and have visited about 95% of the k-space systems. I know what is involved in flying on a 100 system roam, because I ACTUALLY DO IT. Yes, it would make living in the distant areas more difficult. My group has based out of Venal several times in the past, and Marlona's restrictions would essentially make such a move very hard on my corp. It would also kill black frog! I thoroughly understand what this entails.
I think we should look for insight from long term veterans that enjoyed nullsec prior to jump drive ships, or at least prior to JFs.
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
55
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:06:00 -
[414] - Quote
21 pages of smack talk about how not to have fun in this game. Sigh. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
826
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:08:00 -
[415] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I think we should look for insight from long term veterans that enjoyed nullsec prior to jump drive ships, or at least prior to JFs.
I think me and my four other accounts would say the hell with it. Logistics is already like 40% of my time, moving for deployment, keeping cyno chains where they need to be and getting things in to market/out of market.
Anymore and its just not worth it, I don't want to play logistics online, I ******* HATE move ops.
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Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:17:00 -
[416] - Quote
SOV and Capitals made 0.0 what it is today. 4 Communist countries basically! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1682
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:52:00 -
[417] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Sarah Nalelmir wrote:Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.
I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour. But that wouldn't be a sandbox, player controlled space would it then. CFC and N3/PL own most of nullsec because they conquered most of nullsec. Its also worth pointing out that the CFC/N3 coalitions are not defined by an in game mechanic - there is no coalition mechanic, they're both made up of alliances with agreements between them. That isn't CCP's fault - the poor sov mechanics are. The reason CFC is so big is because of the non-sandbox elements. Timers are not sandbox. They're themepark. The entire sov mechanic is themepark. There's only one way to do. You can't sneak a base, you can't do anything but reinforce an asset and then turn up at the allotted time for the battleground...
The only difference to WoW battlegrounds is in EVE the battlegrounds start after 24 hours when everyone is on for the zerg. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1111
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 02:16:00 -
[418] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: The reason CFC is so big is because of the non-sandbox elements. Timers are not sandbox. They're themepark. The entire sov mechanic is themepark. There's only one way to do. You can't sneak a base, you can't do anything but reinforce an asset and then turn up at the allotted time for the battleground...
The only difference to WoW battlegrounds is in EVE the battlegrounds start after 24 hours when everyone is on for the zerg.
There is some merit to this point tbh.
It should be noted that removing the timer based system would definitely hurt the larger guys that hold most of sov (and hence have everything to loose) while not hurting the "little guy" since he doesn't have space to loose anyway. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 02:28:00 -
[419] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: The reason CFC is so big is because of the non-sandbox elements. Timers are not sandbox. They're themepark. The entire sov mechanic is themepark. There's only one way to do. You can't sneak a base, you can't do anything but reinforce an asset and then turn up at the allotted time for the battleground...
The only difference to WoW battlegrounds is in EVE the battlegrounds start after 24 hours when everyone is on for the zerg.
There is some merit to this point tbh. It should be noted that removing the timer based system would definitely hurt the larger guys that hold most of sov (and hence have everything to loose) while not hurting the "little guy" since he doesn't have space to loose anyway.
Not really. Without timers, yes fights may be more dynamic in that they could occur without warning at any time. However, guess which group is more likely to have bodies available in all timezones to attack and defend systems? |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1111
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 02:40:00 -
[420] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote: Not really. Without timers, yes fights may be more dynamic in that they could occur without warning at any time. However, guess which group is more likely to have bodies available in all timezones to attack and defend systems?
So, let's got through this:
1) Removing timers (may or may not be a good idea) would make defending space harder. 2) The big guy currently has lots of space to defend. 3) The little guy currently has no space to defend.
Hmmmmmm....let's think.....whom does this change hurt more? Sure the little guy might not be able to hold space (with or without timers) but he may be able to take space for a little bit, which is a better situation than what is currently on tranquility.
And infinity ziona does have a point, it is an arbitrary themepark mechanic. You do convert arbitrary systems into battlegrounds at the appointed hour. |
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