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Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
6
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Posted - 2014.02.14 06:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I believe the below image fully encompasses the issues that some have with links.
http://imgur.com/tKcEfkY
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
913
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 06:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
LOL
In before lock.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 06:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because Atonement turns off their links when they fight me 6v1.
Right?
:) |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
314
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 06:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
ena is a home system people should expect links and whatever force they throw at you to get you out.
I must say when smooky and co come next door to fight us mr apple usually stays at home but we use links and as many bodies i can muster at the time... thats the way it is
9/10 for troll post tho GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 07:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Because Atonement turns off their links when they fight me 6v1. Right? :)
Awww... come on Yuri... your ship will be ours either way... we just want to lessen the time you have to spend watching it blow up. We do it because we care.
Also, we are voting on your membership application and I will let you know how it turns out. So far, you have received very positive feedback. Yamcha7 is also joining. We look forward to flying with both of you! |
JuricM
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 07:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm hoping that application comes with his recon'yun partner! |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
119
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 10:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
I keep trowing derpcats at those Born-2-Kill guys in Enaluri but they just wont die! Nerf links! |
Pew Terror
Green Associates
79
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Links are cool as long as the linked dude doesnt start whining when he has to fight 1vs2 on grid. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
928
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can believe you people would use links.
You are all dishonorable. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
God's Apples
Aunenen Civil Liberties Union
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Don't know who the hell ATONMENT are, but this seems like a pretty accurate description of Burtakas. |
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
928
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:Don't know who the hell ATONMENT are, but this seems like a pretty accurate description of Burtakas.
I never heard of them either.
I assumed they were a Gallente alt corp by how well they seem to know Burtakas. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Greggles Midboss
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 07:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Really need to stop using my links alt so I can start using my 2nd monitor for the forums. How did I only just see this lololol |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
823
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 08:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pew Terror wrote:Links are cool as long as the linked dude doesnt start whining when he has to fight 1vs2 on grid.
ill just put this here. o/ smook. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2039
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 16:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked for personal attacks. |
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
104
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 17:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
**** OP, but links are broken. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
640
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 18:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lols, good stuff
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Pew Terror wrote:Links are cool as long as the linked dude doesnt start whining when he has to fight 1vs2 on grid. ill just put this here. o/ smook.
I'm CEO *****.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
929
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 21:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked for personal attacks.
Yeah same. I expected it to be gone by now. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3549
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
That's cute....
However, I personally believe links are too much. An offgrid ship, often operating under the safety of a deathstar POS, should not boost the ability of a fleet to the level it does.
Move them on grid, and they are peachy.
Also, I highly recommend making Command Processors a Rig! That will go a long way in balancing out combat capable link ships.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
825
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 00:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:That's cute.... However, I personally believe links are too much. An offgrid ship, often operating under the safety of a deathstar POS, should not boost the ability of a fleet to the level it does. Move them on grid, and they are peachy. Also, I highly recommend making Command Processors a Rig! That will go a long way in balancing out combat capable link ships.
Boosts are no more unfair than a person who can only fly a blaster atron fighting someone who is flying a dual web throax.
Dont dispair, aspire! |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1520
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 01:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Solo with links...
vs.
Solo w/o links...
It's a personal preference but I have always found the latter much more rewarding. |
|
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
26
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 04:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:That's cute.... However, I personally believe links are too much. An offgrid ship, often operating under the safety of a deathstar POS, should not boost the ability of a fleet to the level it does. Move them on grid, and they are peachy. Also, I highly recommend making Command Processors a Rig! That will go a long way in balancing out combat capable link ships. Boosts are no more unfair than a person who can only fly a blaster atron fighting someone who is flying a dual web throax. Dont dispair, aspire!
Yeah not really, in a game where a couple of % makes the difference, boosts don't 'lend you a hand' they completely break usual tactics and engagement profiles.
AB atron v LM condor, tought but with a decent atron pilot, slingshotting is a very strong possibility. However lend boosts to the condor and ... no, sorry, usual tactics available to 'good' pvpers break completely, try slingshotting someone staying at 30km doing 6km/s. Thats not an edge, thats 'pay for another account and break the game.'
I'm sure I need not go on with equivelant examples in the brawling/scram kite arena. People that leave links on for 1v1 T1 frigates are simply bads that likely suffered one too many humiliations early in their EvE days. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
825
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 04:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:That's cute.... However, I personally believe links are too much. An offgrid ship, often operating under the safety of a deathstar POS, should not boost the ability of a fleet to the level it does. Move them on grid, and they are peachy. Also, I highly recommend making Command Processors a Rig! That will go a long way in balancing out combat capable link ships. Boosts are no more unfair than a person who can only fly a blaster atron fighting someone who is flying a dual web throax. Dont dispair, aspire! Yeah not really, in a game where a couple of % makes the difference, boosts don't 'lend you a hand' they completely break usual tactics and engagement profiles. AB atron v LM condor, tought but with a decent atron pilot, slingshotting is a very strong possibility. However lend boosts to the condor and ... no, sorry, usual tactics available to 'good' pvpers break completely, try slingshotting someone staying at 30km doing 6km/s. Thats not an edge, thats 'pay for another account and break the game.' I'm sure I need not go on with equivelant examples in the brawling/scram kite arena. People that leave links on for 1v1 T1 frigates are simply bads that likely suffered one too many humiliations early in their EvE days.
Armchair psychiatrist.
Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me.
I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but.
EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
930
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 05:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Armchair psychiatrist.
Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me.
I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but.
EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is.
Expecting an unarranged fair fight in low-sec is really the epitome of stupidity. You will not find one from me, nor do i expect one from anyone else.
This ^ If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 06:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Armchair psychiatrist.
Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me.
I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but.
EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is.
Expecting an unarranged fair fight in low-sec is really the epitome of stupidity. You will not find one from me, nor do i expect one from anyone else.
This ^ +1
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 07:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked for personal attacks.
I am using anti-forum-lock links now. Yeah, that just happened. |
Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
865
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 08:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:
Armchair psychiatrist.
Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me.
I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but.
EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is.
Expecting an unarranged fair fight in low-sec is really the epitome of stupidity. You will not find one from me, nor do i expect one from anyone else.
What you are describing is a person using link to fight a person using links. Therefore perfectly balanced. sounds pretty much like a 1v1 to me, only with extra toons.
Links are a 'pay to win' mechanic. pure and simple. You get an in game advantage to buying (or plexing or whatever) multiple accounts to give your 'main' a huge advantage against any other 'comparable' opponent. The original concept of gang links was to give players who group together an advantage to do so. Not to allow 'leet' pvp'ers to ROFLMSTOMP over 'comparable' forces. The mechanics were put in place and to aid in social play but instead were abused by the players and CCP has decided to keep, and somewhat promote the gameplay style (sidekicks etc), as it gives them greater revenue.
That fact that a 45 man BC gang dropped on your vigilant had nothing to do with game mechanics supporting 'pay to win'
And blah blah blah about 'can't afford etc don't fly' and all that **** once again get distorted by the use of links. People also then like to point out 'falcon alt!' but at least they had to commit them to the fight and if you know how to you could counter them with something other than 'buy your own alt' strategy.
Eve is not fair, nor should it be, but it does require balance. When that balance requires people to purchase (or plex or whatever) a second account to be competitive then the mechanics are broken.
And yes when I fly with the guys links are almost always up as it is expected within the FW area. GF are given and taken and ganks happen as well. However the game mechanics are broken and I will never have a second account for links etc.
Yes I will get my arse handed to me by linked pilots, whatever, but when I'm out solo etc it is true solo as I like a challenge. The perspective is not broken but it is twisted by peoples view on mechanical balance vs account balance. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 08:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:That's cute.... However, I personally believe links are too much. An offgrid ship, often operating under the safety of a deathstar POS, should not boost the ability of a fleet to the level it does. Move them on grid, and they are peachy. Also, I highly recommend making Command Processors a Rig! That will go a long way in balancing out combat capable link ships. Boosts are no more unfair than a person who can only fly a blaster atron fighting someone who is flying a dual web throax. Dont dispair, aspire! Yeah not really, in a game where a couple of % makes the difference, boosts don't 'lend you a hand' they completely break usual tactics and engagement profiles. AB atron v LM condor, tought but with a decent atron pilot, slingshotting is a very strong possibility. However lend boosts to the condor and ... no, sorry, usual tactics available to 'good' pvpers break completely, try slingshotting someone staying at 30km doing 6km/s. Thats not an edge, thats 'pay for another account and break the game.' I'm sure I need not go on with equivelant examples in the brawling/scram kite arena. People that leave links on for 1v1 T1 frigates are simply bads that likely suffered one too many humiliations early in their EvE days. Armchair psychiatrist. Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me. I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but. EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is. Expecting an unarranged fair fight in low-sec is really the epitome of stupidity. You will not find one from me, nor do i expect one from anyone else.
Literacy... ain't it a *****. Did I say get rid of links? Just passing comment on the type that are glued to them, bit defensive no?
Not sure about hi-sec seeing as I have over 100 solo kills in lowsec this month, turns out the types that need links by their side 24/7 are few and far between, probably best for the game.
I mean you can conflate this with the whole "eve is war argument" but for me eve isn't actually real life and is actually you know.... a game. I don't log on for ganks I look for fights, sure I'll kick someone in the balls in a streetfight with life in danger, not so much in a boxing ring.
The fact remains that if non-linked pvprs responded to linked pvpers in the 'hard core super sun tzu' manner, they simply wouldn't fight, = less pvp overall just so you can not put a T1 frig at risk. Cool.
Hell ask Ibanez what happens when all you do is bait/gank with links, people will try and force a gf out of you for a bit, but in the end you're just going to have to move on to a new area, and leave the people who log on for a challenge to their epic gameplay.
Its not that I expect you to change your gameplay, I'm just ever curious how people get to your stage short of being bashed around when they didn't have links.
See also 'what if everyone camped in counterstrike,' someones gotta make content, cause sure as hell the t1 maulus aint providing any.
|
Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
866
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 08:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yuri wanna come join the fighter squadron? \o/ That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
931
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 09:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:
Hell ask Ibanez what happens when all you do is bait/gank with links, people will try and force a gf out of you for a bit, but in the end you're just going to have to move on to a new area, and leave the people who log on for a challenge to their epic gameplay.
Man you know my corp is small and have to fight outnumberd a lot of the time. The Gallente overshipping us and out numbering us in pvp is the one and only reason we trained link alts.
Many of your fellow Gals are using links and we are only evening it up and not running at an advantage a lot of the time.
You yourself have used Yun and Dustbuster73s links + a few others i am sure.
When we lived in Innia you kept making the choice to knowingly come into a home system where we had links and numbers in a certain tz. You guys even bought your own links in and still JUSTKomplained.
I solemnly apologize that you couldn't farm noobs for a few hours of each day without risk while we lived there.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1521
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 09:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote:
Hell ask Ibanez what happens when all you do is bait/gank with links, people will try and force a gf out of you for a bit, but in the end you're just going to have to move on to a new area, and leave the people who log on for a challenge to their epic gameplay.
Man you know my corp is small and have to fight outnumberd a lot of the time. The Gallente overshipping us and out numbering us in pvp is the one and only reason we trained link alts. Many of your fellow Gals are using links and we are only evening it up and not running at an advantage a lot of the time. You yourself have used Yun and Dustbuster73s links + a few others i am sure. When we lived in Innia you kept making the choice to knowingly come into a home system where we had links and numbers in a certain tz. You guys even bought your own links in and still JUSTKomplained. I solemnly apologize that you couldn't farm noobs for a few hours of each day without risk while we lived there.
Yuri still makes a fair point. You learn who uses links and add their booster alts to your contact list. When you see them in local you can avoid them if you don't have your own links. (LOL. Here comes so and so with his Tengu and Loki alts. Time to hang out in the POS for a couple of minutes. ) |
|
Taoist Dragon
No.1 Crazy Fighter Squadron
866
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 10:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Quote:Yuri still makes a fair point. You learn who uses links and add their booster alts to your contact list. When you see them in local you can avoid them if you don't have your own links. (LOL. Here comes so and so with his Tengu and Loki alts. Time to hang out in the POS for a couple of minutes. )
And anytime the answer to an issue is get another account and get your own you have a broken mechanic. There is only one reason mechanics such as these are still in game. They give CCP more revenue due to more accounts. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 10:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote: Literacy... ain't it a *****. Did I say get rid of links? Just passing comment on the type that are glued to them, bit defensive no?
*... paragraphs of drivel ...*
Literacy error is not the correct category, even if i was accusing you of something you did not say. That would be a reading comprehension error.
Much like every single wierd strawman paragraph in your post lol.
You cant get irate when someone (who didnt) accuses you of saying something you didnt then follow it up with several arguments they didnt say. Well, not without looking a bit silly anyway lol.
You are suggesting that people who use boosts are bad. Im just correctly asserting that you are just another tedious uppity dude that thinks the way you play this game is the best. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 11:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Issues I see with off-grid links:
- Gameplay-wise, they're just a very expensive deployable (ISK and SP). Put them someplace safe, activate, forget unitl you need to leave system; rinse & repeat. - They are all alts. We have scout pilots, dps pilots, ewar pilots, logi pilots... and boosting alts
Apparently CCP will force boosters on-grid SoonTM. I think that would make things much more interesting, especially if the actual mechanic is some sort of 100-150km area of effect instead of 'on-grid' which is kind of vague (grid-fu anyone?).
As with all changes in game mechanics, I'm sure there will be both 'good' and 'bad' consquences (as always, largely depending on your point of view) but... at least you'll have to actually FLY the darn things! |
Yun Kuai
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
102
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 12:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
JuricM wrote:I'm hoping that application comes with his recon'yun partner!
There is nothing to see here, move along. Secretly moves arazu into position. Actually come have a second look |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
931
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 12:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Yuri still makes a fair point. You learn who uses links and add their booster alts to your contact list. When you see them in local you can avoid them if you don't have your own links. (LOL. Here comes so and so with his Tengu and Loki alts. Time to hang out in the POS for a couple of minutes. )
Yeah it is a fair point.
I admit Yuri is a brilliant pvper and does mostly solo - Maybe his game style is the victim us responding to the rest of Gal mil blobbing so often.
But as people will regularly bring in 2x+ the numbers - Smaller corps like mine will always have to use whatever tools are available to fight with.
You never know if more wt will come flooding in and not having links up will = certain defeat due to numbers/being overshipped/both.
I did ask Yuri to join us. He kinda should but he is resisting joining the dark side.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Yun Kuai
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
102
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 12:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote:
Hell ask Ibanez what happens when all you do is bait/gank with links, people will try and force a gf out of you for a bit, but in the end you're just going to have to move on to a new area, and leave the people who log on for a challenge to their epic gameplay.
Man you know my corp is small and have to fight outnumberd a lot of the time. The Gallente overshipping us and out numbering us in pvp is the one and only reason we trained link alts. Many of your fellow Gals are using links and we are only evening it up and not running at an advantage a lot of the time. You yourself have used Yun and Dustbuster73s links + a few others i am sure. When we lived in Innia you kept making the choice to knowingly come into a home system where we had links and numbers in a certain tz. You guys even bought your own links in and still JUSTKomplained. I solemnly apologize that you couldn't farm noobs for a few hours of each day without risk while we lived there.
You realize I brought my alt from nullsec and spent over 2 months training for links after they were constantly used in Innia and that is the only reason they were in Eha. In fact, I got bitched at for not keeping her in Eha more often since I would JC back to keep making ISK for myself.
Edit: what does everyone on here say. Adapt or die. Which is why I brought links to Eha because, in at least our timezone, 10 v 3 is hard without links. But in all honesty, it is crap to essentially be forced to bring links if someone else is using them and they need to be balanced, I..e read nerfed, more. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3552
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 18:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote: Dont dispair, aspire!
Unlike most players, I can use all combat links on this character without need of an alt (which I have plenty of). Access to links is not an issue for me or mine.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Boosts are no more unfair than a person who can only fly a blaster atron fighting someone who is flying a dual web throax.
Dont dispair, aspire!
Yeah not really, in a game where a couple of % makes the difference, boosts don't 'lend you a hand' they completely break usual tactics and engagement profiles. AB atron v LM condor, tought but with a decent atron pilot, slingshotting is a very strong possibility. However lend boosts to the condor and ... no, sorry, usual tactics available to 'good' pvpers break completely, try slingshotting someone staying at 30km doing 6km/s. Thats not an edge, thats 'pay for another account and break the game.' I'm sure I need not go on with equivelant examples in the brawling/scram kite arena. People that leave links on for 1v1 T1 frigates are simply bads that likely suffered one too many humiliations early in their EvE days. Armchair psychiatrist. Only your perspective is broken, not the game. As often as i run into disgruntled pilots who fell into my web, i get pilots who i fell into their 'web' and used boosts to escape giving me props. Many of these pilots had boosts themselves and still deliver props for a fight well fought. Or they kill me. I remember my vigilant dying to a 45 man battlecruiser hot-drop. You search for fair and balanced in a game that is and should be anything but. EVE is not a 1v1 game. If that is the kind of fighting you value best you move to high sec and drop a can outside jita 4-4 or whatever the modern equivalent is. Expecting an unarranged fair fight in low-sec is really the epitome of stupidity. You will not find one from me, nor do i expect one from anyone else.
Tell, how is this not broken:
A Snake Set boosts your speed by 24%. A Rapid Deployment Link boosts your speed by 26%, to every member in fleet.
A lg Crystal Set boosts your rep by 34%. The the Rapid Repair Links increase your rep rate by 35%, to every member in fleet.
I could go on, but links simply trump the bonuses you get from skills and implants and faction modules. Truthfully though, I'm alright with their strength, as long as you hold up the mantra that "EvE is not a 1v1 game".
Put the ******* links on Grid, and bring them into the combat. If your ship is boosting your fleetmates to such a level, they absolutely need to be "at risk". I applaud CCP for moving them outside of a POS FF, but until they are on grid, they are broken.
|
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
640
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 18:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
I really need to get the motivation to use links more often. These threads are quite entertaining. Don't think you will ever see them 100% required on grid. Best we can probably hope for is a slight nerf if they are boosting offgrid. I'm CEO *****.
|
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
671
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Crosi, Yuri, Ibanez all make fair points. I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to the ethos you come to believe in when playing this game.
Crosi and Ibanez's ethos is: "Eve is not fair. So deal with it" Or something to that effect
Yuri's : "I prefer a challenge" Or something to that effect.
Everything else in this thread reads something to the effect of, "Well, you guys started using links or blobbing us first. So we decided to bring links now to counter your links/blobbing"
Which begs the rhetorical question of, which came first? The blob to counter the links? Or the links to counter the blob?
High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve . |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3554
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote: Which begs the rhetorical question of, which came first? The blob to counter the links? Or the links to counter the blob?
The blob is irrelevant. Any and ALL game assets scale into blobs. Grouping up to win is a natural aspect of open-world PvP.
Links are broken when looked at independently of Blobs or "unfair" fights. Their risk & effort vs reward ratio is the issue, nothing else.
"but EvE is unfair": To be frank, this is untrue at the "game mechanics" level, and Irrelevant to a discussion about links. EvE mechanics effect everyone equally. You can bring any ship you want, you can bring as many friends as you want, but the general mechanics apply to everyone the exact same way. Links are simply a mechanic that is out of balance with the rest of EvE, and that is what I'm claiming needs addressing. |
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Hrett
Justified Chaos
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Crosi, Yuri, Ibanez all make fair points. I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to the ethos you come to believe in when playing this game.
Crosi and Ibanez's ethos is: "Eve is not fair. So deal with it" Or something to that effect
Yuri's : "I prefer a challenge" Or something to that effect.
Everything else in this thread reads something to the effect of, "Well, you guys started using links or blobbing us first. So we decided to bring links now to counter your links/blobbing"
Which begs the rhetorical question of, which came first? The blob to counter the links? Or the links to counter the blob?
This. I hate links and think they are unfair and gamebreaking bullshit. Put them on-grid and I have absolutely zero problem with them. Right now - they are terribly broken and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional, full of ****, or both.
That being said - as long as CCP encourages them (and they do - their line of "they are really hard to fix" is the weakest excuse I have ever heard - they arent fixed because of the extra account cash it generates), then I dont have a problem with people using them. In fact, you would be quite stupid not to do so (count me as stupid - I have a fully trained link character and he flys a freighter).
The real issue here is CCP. They need to fix them. They wont. Cashgrab. End of story. I guess I cant blame them for it, but I dont have to agree with it. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
640
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. I'm CEO *****.
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Hrett
Justified Chaos
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks.
Those dont force you to buy a second account and are at (minor) risk when you enter the battlefield. I personally have no problem with them. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1521
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 20:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks.
I'm absolutely fine with implants. They come with you into battle. I have four rather expensive clones for various purposes. If you screw up you can lose them. There are also an increase in smart bombing BS as of late. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2042
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 20:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Overall, off grid fleet boosters are much too overpowered in this game. The "force multiplying" advantages of being in a fleet are strong enough (Leadership skill bonuses, overall numbers, fleet warps, warp to, etc...).
Fleet boosters affect an entire group of players which is OK, but the boosts they receive are ridiculously high for a game built on "diminishing returns".
This game is supposed to be about diminishing returns, not overwhelming returns. +5% damage for an implant that costs alot of isk? OK with it. Minor (but significant) advantage. Snake set, Slave Set, Spur Set? OK with it. They are expensive and affect a single player.
In any case, we still fight with and without fleet boosters all the time. We think we're better than we really are when they are turned on, but we don't rely on them like a crutch when they aren't. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3555
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 20:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks.
I feel very similar to Hrett.
They alter one character's attributes, not a full fleet of characters. They are at reasonable risk of being lost.
And also, you can only use 1 pirate implant set at a time. With links, you can simultaneously combine the effects: Rapid Deployment is better than a Full Snake Set: +30% speed (vs 24%) Evasive Manuevers is better than a full Halo Set: -34% Sig radius (vs 20%) Interdiction Manuevers is like upgrading all T2 tackle to best faction tackle.
Recon Operation is better than a Full Centurion Set: +34% EWAR Optimal Range (vs 33%) Sensor Integrity is similar to gaining a Full Grail/Jackal/Talon/Spur Set: + 51% Sensor Strength. Electronic Superiority is like upgrading all Paints, Damps, Tracks, and ECM to best Faction EWAR mods.
Shield Harmonizing gives as good a boost as a Low Grade Crystal Set: (+33%) Passive defense gives as good a boost as a Low Grade Slave Set: (+33%)
Combine all 3 Siege or Armor Links, and the boost is much better than you gain from Highgrade crystal or Slave sets.
Pirate implants are potent, but you can't mix and match and put in 3 or 6 or 9 sets at the same time. I like pirate sets, and think they are perfectly acceptable. I consider them very potent... but reasonable given the risk and reward.
Off grid links have less risk, benefit many, many more players, and generally provide boosts much better than pirate implant sets. This is why I consider them broken. Put them on grid, and I'm alright with them.
Why? On grid, the number of links that a single ship can push are minimized, as fitting lots of links is very fitting intensive. On grid, they can be neutralized (neuts), not to mention destroyed or driven off grid. On grid, and the character utilizing the links will actually be playing the game! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2042
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 20:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I could go on, but links simply trump the bonuses you get from skills and implants and faction modules. Truthfully though, I'm alright with their strength, as long as you hold up the mantra that "EvE is not a 1v1 game".
Put the ******* links on Grid, and bring them into the combat. If your ship is boosting your fleetmates to such a level, they absolutely need to be "at risk". I applaud CCP for moving them outside of a POS FF, but until they are on grid, they are broken.
Agree with everything you say except one thing. Fleet boosters bonuses are too high regardless of whether or not they are on grid. They should be in the 5% range, not the 25% range.
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3555
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 20:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I could go on, but links simply trump the bonuses you get from skills and implants and faction modules. Truthfully though, I'm alright with their strength, as long as you hold up the mantra that "EvE is not a 1v1 game".
Put the ******* links on Grid, and bring them into the combat. If your ship is boosting your fleetmates to such a level, they absolutely need to be "at risk". I applaud CCP for moving them outside of a POS FF, but until they are on grid, they are broken.
Agree with everything you say except one thing. Fleet boosters bonuses are too high regardless of whether or not they are on grid. They should be in the 5% range, not the 25% range.
If they remain off grid, I fully support the nerf from 20-35% boosts all the way down to 2-7% boosts. It still takes a player to fly and utilize the ship. If they are on grid, I support having them be battle-changing ships. A logistics ship, EWAR ships, are very much force multipliers, just like link ships. Link ships give up a fair amount of combat power to boost the effectiveness of their fleet mates, so I'm alright with them having very strong boosts, as long as they are on grid!
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
933
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 21:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks.
I have asked the same question before and people seem to think implants are OK.
However implants do not cost more in reality - The sub time to max skill a booster alt + ships + mindlinks and constantly subbing a 2nd account makes boosts much more costly. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1521
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 21:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I could go on, but links simply trump the bonuses you get from skills and implants and faction modules. Truthfully though, I'm alright with their strength, as long as you hold up the mantra that "EvE is not a 1v1 game".
Put the ******* links on Grid, and bring them into the combat. If your ship is boosting your fleetmates to such a level, they absolutely need to be "at risk". I applaud CCP for moving them outside of a POS FF, but until they are on grid, they are broken.
Agree with everything you say except one thing. Fleet boosters bonuses are too high regardless of whether or not they are on grid. They should be in the 5% range, not the 25% range.
A second player - when actively flown! - should be able to bring more to the table then one dude even with pimped out implants. I agree with on grid but the power level is fine. |
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3556
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 21:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. I have asked the same question before and people seem to think implants are OK. However implants do not cost more in reality - The sub time to max skill a booster alt + ships + mindlinks and constantly subbing a 2nd account makes boosts much more costly.
Horseshit.
Legion Boosting Toon: 7.5b Command Ship Boosting Toon: 22b CS/T3 Boosting Toon: 25b
So, lets imagine you bling it out and buy the 25b isk leadership toon, and put him in a 6 link CS orbiting your POS (+1b).
Option 1: 27b isk Total, spending 2.5b isk per implant set to give 10 people in fleet a full snake set, +250m spend giving them all republic fleet warp disruptors and fed navy webs.
Option 2: 26b isk Total, spending 25b isk buying the top-of-the-line leaderhip toon, +1b isk to implant and ship him, and provide everyone in fleet the same boosts as a full snake set, make their t2 modules function as effectively as the bling tackle, give them the benefits of a full Halo Set, and give them the benefits of a full crystal set.
Oh yeah, Option 2, you'll lose at most 1b isk for the ship/pod if it dies, but it orbits just outside of shields at deathstar POS. With option 1, everytime you lose a ship/pod, you lose 2+b isk.
Oops, forgot to add the second account in... That's 500m extra a month. Hmm... if Option 1 loses 1 ship/pod a month, your still way ahead.
Now that you understand the reality of the situation, try that again! Which option is more expensive? |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
933
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 01:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. I have asked the same question before and people seem to think implants are OK. However implants do not cost more in reality - The sub time to max skill a booster alt + ships + mindlinks and constantly subbing a 2nd account makes boosts much more costly. Horseshit. Legion Boosting Toon: 7.5bCommand Ship Boosting Toon: 22bCS/T3 Boosting Toon: 25bSo, lets imagine you bling it out and buy the 25b isk leadership toon, and put him in a 6 link CS orbiting your POS (+1b). Option 1: 27b isk Total, spending 2.5b isk per implant set to give 10 people in fleet a full snake set, +250m spend giving them all republic fleet warp disruptors and fed navy webs. Option 2: 26b isk Total, spending 25b isk buying the top-of-the-line leaderhip toon, +1b isk to implant and ship him, and provide everyone in fleet the same boosts as a full snake set, make their t2 modules function as effectively as the bling tackle, give them the benefits of a full Halo Set, and give them the benefits of a full crystal set. Oh yeah, Option 2, you'll lose at most 1b isk for the ship/pod if it dies, but it orbits just outside of shields at deathstar POS. With option 1, everytime you lose a ship/pod, you lose 2+b isk. Oops, forgot to add the second account in... That's 500m extra a month. Hmm... if Option 1 loses 1 ship/pod a month, your still way ahead. Now that you understand the reality of the situation, try that again! Which option is more expensive?
I was not taking lost pods or buying toons into account. I was more along the lines of if the toon was trained and kept subbed in the future.
Also - as you have just shown by conjuring up a 10 person fleet to validate your point - the figures can be bent in any way you or I desire. I can simply say - nah I mostly fly alone so why would I need to calculate in 10 sets of implants ?
As I trained my alt and do not buy toons - the money on subbing it, skill books ,ships and keeping it subbed for the years to come - easily outweigh a 3 bil set of implants.
From my perspective: 3Bil isk is maybe the value of approx 6 months of game sub. Just training the toon took maybe 8ish months - Then its 500mil a month for however long I keep it.
So for me its isk cost with ships, implants etc is maybe at 6-8bil by now. (likely more tbh)
As previously said- getting podded was not taken into account. No one cant predict how often that cost will arise if at all. The implants are at more risk being on grid - I don't deny that. But the high grade sets are way more powerful than links so you get more advantage for that risk as well. The real issue is when you combine high grades and links. That is crazy stuff. (10km a sec + hookbills etc)
I can understand that many players in eve want their advantages of High Grade snakes, crystals etc and for as few people as possible to be able to compete with them by using boosts. That is simply caused by a false senses of entitlement on their part. To argue that one douchy game mechanic is better or more valid than another is pointless.
But the reality is: As I have said before. Everyone who plays eve is a douche. I am and all of you are too.
No one of us is any better than the other. I might be a douche and use boosts sometimes - You might be one who over ships, outnumbers and/or uses high grade implants to take part in your form of douchery.
Looking forward to links going ongrid myself. Back to one account, saving a few $ a month (which steam will somehow get I am sure lol) and being able to play in proper Full Screen all the time again will be nice.
So the tl;dr is - Boosts are more expensive unless you derp expensive pods cause derping consistently will eventually become more expensive. (surprise surprise) If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3558
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 02:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote: I was not taking lost pods or buying toons into account. I was more along the lines of if the toon was trained and kept subbed in the future.
Also - as you have just shown by conjuring up a 10 person fleet to validate your point - the figures can be bent in any way you or I desire. I can simply say - nah I mostly fly alone so why would I need to calculate in 10 sets of implants ?
As I trained my alt and do not buy toons - the money on subbing it, skill books ,ships and keeping it subbed for the years to come - easily outweigh a 3 bil set of implants.
From my perspective: 3Bil isk is maybe the value of approx 6 months of game sub. Just training the toon took maybe 8ish months - Then its 500mil a month for however long I keep it.
So for me its isk cost with ships, implants etc is maybe at 6-8bil by now. (likely more tbh)
As previously said- getting podded was not taken into account. No one cant predict how often that cost will arise if at all. The implants are at more risk being on grid - I don't deny that. But the high grade sets are way more powerful than links so you get more advantage for that risk as well. The real issue is when you combine high grades and links. That is crazy stuff. (10km a sec + hookbills etc)
I can understand that many players in eve want their advantages of High Grade snakes, crystals etc and for as few people as possible to be able to compete with them by using boosts. That is simply caused by a false senses of entitlement on their part. To argue that one douchy game mechanic is better or more valid than another is pointless.
But the reality is: As I have said before. Everyone who plays eve is a douche. I am and all of you are too.
No one of us is any better than the other. I might be a douche and use boosts sometimes - You might be one who over ships, outnumbers and/or uses high grade implants to take part in your form of douchery.
Looking forward to links going ongrid myself. Back to one account, saving a few $ a month (which steam will somehow get I am sure lol) and being able to play in proper Full Screen all the time again will be nice.
So the tl;dr is - Boosts are more expensive unless you derp expensive pods cause derping consistently will eventually become more expensive. (surprise surprise)
I'm glad to hear you are in the bring links on grid camp. I want to correct two misnomers in your post though:
1) You are factually incorrect when you say, " But the high grade sets are way more powerful than links so you get more advantage for that risk as well." This is generally untrue in almost every case where stats are comparable: Example High grade snakes boost your ship speed 24.73%. Rapid deployment boosts your ship speed by 30.19%.
Example: A crystal set increases your effective rep amount by 53.63% A Shield Harmonizing increases your effective rep amount by 34.92%, but when combined with Active shielding (which also increases your effective rep amount by 34.92%), you have a net increase of 82% in effective rep amounts. This is greater than your 54%.
Slave Implants don't have a direct comparison to links, increasing your armor EHP by 50%, and the closest is Passive Defense which increases your armor EHP by 34%, but offers a shitload more benefit than slaves. Slaves simply increase your buffer, Passive Defense increases your resists which make you rep better and make you receive remote rep better, both of which are generally more desirable than a straight boost to buffer!
My point, generally fleet boosts are more powerful than pirate implants.
2.) Gang links effect an ENTIRE FLEET. If you nerf gang lnks so they only affect on other fleet member, we can look at it in the "But I solo wiith links" viewpoint. Just because we don't utilize them to boost 250 pilots doesn't mean we get to discount their ability to boost 250 pilots! They are very often used to boost large numbers of players, and that is one of the reasons they are much more broken than pirate implants.
And you are absolutely right, combing pirate implants with links produces some pretty insane ****. Rattlesnakes that can tank 3 dreadnaughts long enough to deagress and dock up, and crazy things like that.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 02:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
You know you've chosen a good place to live (gal/cal warzone) when...
friends & enemies agree on the proper way to blow eachother up (on-grid boosts). |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 06:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote: Literacy... ain't it a *****. Did I say get rid of links? Just passing comment on the type that are glued to them, bit defensive no?
*... paragraphs of drivel ...*
Literacy error is not the correct category, even if i was accusing you of something you did not say. That would be a reading comprehension error. Much like every single wierd strawman paragraph in your post lol. You cant get irate when someone (who didnt) accuses you of saying something you didnt then follow it up with several arguments they didnt say. Well, not without looking a bit silly anyway lol. You are suggesting that people who use boosts are bad. Im just correctly asserting that you are just another tedious uppity dude that thinks the way you play this game is the best.
Literacy is the ability to read and write, you respond to something I didn't write, you have a literacy issue or something worse. Your not even being pedantic, just wrong.
I'm ignoring your second line as the amount of double negatives obscures what you're trying to say. The guy flying into 20 dudes solo, no I don't think he's bad for using links. The guy that doesnt shut em down so he can obliterate usually equal competition? Yes he is indeed a bad, or he's at least afraid he would lose otherwise.
This isn't about what I think is the best way to play, I know what CCP thinks. Fact is you were 'fine' with boosts before the developer had to nerf them, so what you think is fine is near objectively proven to be wrong. The fact that CCP clearly will continue revisiting them should mean something to you too, probably won't though.
Me? When I know the mechanic has got to the point the developer has to fix it, and further fixes are waiting on technical solutions, I'm not going to abuse that fact just so I can get some kills.
Thats just me though, when something is OP in a game (especially when the devs say they will revisit it) I'm not going to go near it. Especially when it is one of the most blatant P2W mechanis in gaming history.
We can't all be good people though obviously.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
939
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 07:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote: Literacy... ain't it a *****. Did I say get rid of links? Just passing comment on the type that are glued to them, bit defensive no?
*... paragraphs of drivel ...*
Literacy error is not the correct category, even if i was accusing you of something you did not say. That would be a reading comprehension error. Much like every single wierd strawman paragraph in your post lol. You cant get irate when someone (who didnt) accuses you of saying something you didnt then follow it up with several arguments they didnt say. Well, not without looking a bit silly anyway lol. You are suggesting that people who use boosts are bad. Im just correctly asserting that you are just another tedious uppity dude that thinks the way you play this game is the best. Literacy is the ability to read and write, you respond to something I didn't write, you have a literacy issue or something worse. Your not even being pedantic, just wrong. I'm ignoring your second line as the amount of double negatives obscures what you're trying to say. The guy flying into 20 dudes solo, no I don't think he's bad for using links. The guy that doesnt shut em down so he can obliterate usually equal competition? Yes he is indeed a bad, or he's at least afraid he would lose otherwise. This isn't about what I think is the best way to play, I know what CCP thinks. Fact is you were 'fine' with boosts before the developer had to nerf them, so what you think is fine is near objectively proven to be wrong. The fact that CCP clearly will continue revisiting them should mean something to you too, probably won't though. Me? When I know the mechanic has got to the point the developer has to fix it, and further fixes are waiting on technical solutions, I'm not going to abuse that fact just so I can get some kills. Thats just me though, when something is OP in a game (especially when the devs say they will revisit it) I'm not going to go near it. Especially when it is one of the most blatant P2W mechanis in gaming history. We can't all be good people though obviously.
I blame Khan for this Gallente drama.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6299
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
One time bump to fix forum. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
504
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 13:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
I dont need links. Links are for people who login, I simply forum pvp. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
358
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 03:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
I know a lot of responses have suggested on grid boosters as the way to go.
I may get flamed for this, but I think it's fine just the way it is.
I haven't been playing long enough to have a links boosting character (and haven't purchased one on the bazaar), so I don't run links myself and only have access to them when in fleet.
However, despite it being a pain in the backside to come up against someone who is being boosted, I can appreciate the time, effort and training that goes into creating a good boosting character.
We all have the ability to create links characters, so others shouldn't be penalized just because I haven't gone to the same level of effort as someone else. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
104
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 10:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:I want the game to be pay 2 win.
|
|
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
878
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
I like links a lot.
Why don't you? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
364
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:I want the game to be pay 2 win.
If that's what you want, that's unfortunate. I don't think too many other people would share the same view. Aside from that, better to have mature discussion than change text to something that was never written.
We all pay to play the game. If someone pays in order to build a links pilot, good luck to them. It's not what I am prepared to do, but their style of play shouldn't be nerfed because I don't have. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 11:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
So, I disagree that links should be on-grid.
This is simply because I think the horses were let out of the barn long ago and it was enough of a nerf to prohibit links in a POS.
I hope that CCP is making a ton of money from people paying for link-alts because a majority of that revenue would evaporate if they put links on-grid.
Most of us who have link alts, and I am one, spent a crap ton of time training them for the skills that they have. I don't think it's necessary to compare the exact percent gains that links give vs. implants, etc. The fact is that there are multiple mechanisms by which you can enhance the skills of a character or fleet. Eve is a game that REQUIRES cooperation between multiple persons for success. That's just the way it is. If your two man corp doesn't have the assets to take on larger gangs, join a larger alliance or corp. It's that simple. Unless you are running invention jobs in high-sec, you probably won't do well without numbers.
If I am sitting alone in a system with my main and my alt running links and a 10 man fleet enters system, I am not engaging that... why would I? (ok, so in reality I tend to Leroy a lot of crap, but you get the point) So does that mean that 10 man fleets should be prohibited? You could have the best HG sets, links, officer modules, etc., in your ship and you still can't take out overwhelming numbers. What's the reaction when someone in your fleet notices a Tournament ship on scan? Do you say, "well... let's try to find one ship that is most evenly matched and send it to the Tourney ship for an honorable fight?" Hell no you don't! You gang **** that damn ship as fast and as hard as you can and hope that your buddies two systems away don't get to ***** in on the kill mail. So should CCP do away with Tourney ships? Should they disband fleets of more than three people?
So I guess my standpoint is all or nothing with the links. Either keep it the way it is or remove them from the game. If they are nerfed to require on-grid application, that will equate for most to removing them from the game. It is pretty rare that I see FW fleets of command ships roaming around and I don't think most FW guys who are VERY accustomed to losing ships will sink the necessary ISK into hauling command ships around in their fleets given the likely potential for loss.
It is human nature to point to whatever we can to cleanse our failures.
"Those wankers had ECM" "That scumbag decloaked an Astero" "There goes Gallente again... bringing cruisers to a frig fight"
Some of us are really good at certain aspects of the game and that is what we like to do. Nobody wants to log-on to FW and spend three hours losing every ship in their hangar and then trying to slide a PLEX purchase past their wife in the bank account... but **** happens.
I have lost many ships while links were active and many more when I had no links but my opponents had links running. Who cares? The golden rule is "don't un-dock what you aren't prepared to lose" in FW. If you guys don't like it out there... spin your ships or go mining in high-sec. FW is a bloody place and you will loose... again and again and again. But when you win.... that **** is sweet. Until damn Burtakus gives you crap in local and takes away your happy time. Then you need to create a forum post about the issue.
:)
Love you guys!
PS: Sean Parisi for CSM!
|
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Smook wrote: "GOOD STUFF"
PS: Sean Parisi for CSM!
I agree totally on the link situation there smooky....
Also if we vote for sean do we get a free vanilla swirl wig?
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
509
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 23:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
We have found the best solution to links is to blap the persons link alt with nagas. The tactic has often been used against us as well when we have had a night of heavy drinking.
If voted for CSM king I will ensure all faction warfare players recieve vanilla swirls.
Who rule forun town? |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
948
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 00:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote: Who rule forun town?
Dunno but he can spell much better than you.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 04:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Sean Parisi wrote: Who rule forun town?
Dunno but he can spell much better than you.
LOLOL!! Now THAT was funny. It must be Sean's British accent in the spelling there :) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3568
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 17:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
@ Smook: Let me paraphrase your post:
1.) My links are in a little danger, whereas they were in no danger before. That's hard when I'm duel boxing, so links are fine.
2.) I spent lots of time training for my link alt that also creates revenue for CCP. That makes it ok for links to be overpowered compared to skill boosts, implants, etc.
3.) The blob always wins, so links are fine.
4.) You can die, even when you have links, so links are fine.
You do nothing to address the imbalances they cause. You do nothing to address the risk/effort vs reward of links. You mention the efforts required in training up links, and somehow think that the effort of paying for a second account entitles you to the massive boosts provided by links. In other words, you ignore the underlying imbalances of links because you want to continue using them.
At this moment, I know little about Sean Parisi, but when your post shows such a poor grasp of game balance (P2W seems to be your motto), you negatively color his campaign.
Smook wrote:It is human nature to point to whatever we can to cleanse our failures.
"Those wankers had ECM" "That scumbag decloaked an Astero" "There goes Gallente again... bringing cruisers to a frig fight"
ECM, +1 ship, logistics, etc, can all be dealt with, as the mechanics you're discussing require the extra ship to be ON GRID. This makes it engageable, counterable, and creates interesting game play. Links offer little to no means to counter them!
Smook wrote: So I guess my standpoint is all or nothing with the links. Either keep it the way it is or remove them from the game. If they are nerfed to require on-grid application, that will equate for most to removing them from the game. It is pretty rare that I see FW fleets of command ships roaming around and I don't think most FW guys who are VERY accustomed to losing ships will sink the necessary ISK into hauling command ships around in their fleets given the likely potential for loss.
1.) FW fighting often centers around PLEX's, of which most don't allow BC's, T3's, and CS's to enter. Forcing links to be on grid pretty much removes them from most FW battle arenas.
2.) I used to recommend players experimenting in PvP take a look into FW. I then spent 6 months fighting in the Amarr-Minnie FW zone, and now advise new players to stay as far away from FW as possible. FW is plagued with characters utilizing links to boost their ship's combat capabilities to asinine levels. Frankly, a new player can't compete in that environment without massive handholding. You, and your ilk, are fully responsible for this, as when one side has links, the other side must bring links (or blob) to compete. This destroys much of the Rochambeau between ships, and is a general degradation of game play. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1531
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 17:27:00 -
[69] - Quote
Gizznitt touched upon one point that I wanted to make in his post. Arguing that link accounts bring in revenue for CCP is a strawman argument. For every 'leet' player utilizing links there could be:
Three new players who quit the game after dying in a bewildering fashion. One bitter vet who decides it's P2W and wants no part of it quitting also. Another bitter vet who dislikes the meta and simply doesn't log in as much.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 18:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Gizznitt touched upon one point that I wanted to make in his post. Arguing that link accounts bring in revenue for CCP is a strawman argument. For every 'leet' player utilizing links there could be:
Three new players who quit the game after dying in a bewildering fashion. One bitter vet who decides it's P2W and wants no part of it quitting also. Another bitter vet who dislikes the meta and simply doesn't log in as much.
Non of your presumptions would make 'link-accounts=revenue' a strawman argument. |
|
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
236
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 18:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Here is how you "fix" the link problem. If any character on a killmail received bonuses from an active link module, then the character/ship providing those links shows up on the killmail as well (if no damage was done, then module is one of the link modules and 0 damage). Problem solved... QCATS is recruiting:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3896299 |
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
268
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 19:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Here is how you "fix" the link problem. If any character on a killmail received bonuses from an active link module, then the character/ship providing those links shows up on the killmail as well (if no damage was done, then module is one of the link modules and 0 damage). Problem solved...
THIS.
+1 [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1531
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 19:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Non of your presumptions would make 'link-accounts=revenue' a strawman argument.
My point as you very well realize is that Links may cost CCP business. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3571
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 19:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Here is how you "fix" the link problem. If any character on a killmail received bonuses from an active link module, then the character/ship providing those links shows up on the killmail as well (if no damage was done, then module is one of the link modules and 0 damage). Problem solved...
This doesn't "Fix" the link problem.
I fully support putting logi pilots and/or link pilots within the battle report, but nothing gets fixed by this.
Why? Because the primary issue with links is their potency is imbalanced compared to the risk/effort vs reward in utilizing them. To "Fix" the problem, the power imbalance they create must be addressed!
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
390
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 19:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:This doesn't "Fix" the link problem.
There isn't universal agreement that there is a links problem.
I see it just as much as an "I don't have" or "I don't want to play that way" problem.
Like many perceived issues with the game, it's really a player limitation rather than a mechanics issue as far as I'm concerned. However clearly not everyone feels the same as I do and if CCP do ever change the links boosting mechanics, hopefully they do it in a way that provides something to benefit the existing links pilots as much as it will benefit those without links.
In any case, I say they are fine as they are and no change is necessary (and I don't use links except when I'm in an Alliance fleet, so personal interest is not the thing here). eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Castnicke Rinah
Black Fox Marauders
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 19:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
At least it means we can laugh at them, knowing that without links they would have lost.
It's what I tell myself every time I die. |
Lugalzagezi666
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
Fleet boosting needs to become actual role in pvp depending on piloting skills of the player and not just job for alt that sits in safespot 20au away from fight and despite that he is able to increase efficiency of the fleet by massive amounts.
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3571
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Here's a viable middle ground solution that actually "fixes" the problem.
Create Either one of these:
Option 1: A new deployable that hinders all fleet bonuses to any ship on-grid with the deployable.
Option 2: A new deployable that simply hinders all fleet bonuses within a system.
I created an F&I thread to discuss and balance these devices. Essentially, either one of these creates a counter to fleet boosts that helps balance the playing field.
|
Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
513
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
*edit actually i take my opinion back. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT NOPESIREE |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
952
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:11:00 -
[80] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Here's a viable middle ground solution that actually "fixes" the problem. Create Either one of these: Option 1: A new deployable that hinders all fleet bonuses to any ship on-grid with the deployable. Option 2: A new deployable that simply hinders all fleet bonuses within a system. I created an F&I thread to discuss and balance these devices. Essentially, either one of these creates a counter to fleet boosts that helps balance the playing field.
What a damn good idea.
Keeps everyone happy.
WIN WIN. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
|
Castnicke Rinah
Black Fox Marauders
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:47:00 -
[81] - Quote
Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
952
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
Castnicke Rinah wrote:Because more USEFUL deployables is exactly what Eve needs.
Fixed it for you.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
341
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Castnicke Rinah wrote:Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs.
If it will kill OGB, it does.
Gizznit - I like your idea. I think I posted something similar in the "what deployables would you like to see?" thread.
When was the last time anyone saw a T1 BC with links on it? I am sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Make boosts be on grid, and these will be used a lot more. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
391
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Since the suggestion is essentially for an ECM deplorable, it needs an ECCM equivalent too. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3572
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:13:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hrett wrote:Castnicke Rinah wrote:Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs. If it will kill OGB, it does. Gizznit - I like your idea. I think I posted something similar in the "what deployables would you like to see?" thread. When was the last time anyone saw a T1 BC with links on it? I am sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Make boosts be on grid, and these will be used a lot more.
Thank you for your support.
I'm a fan of the put links on grid mantra. I think that will be a healthier option overall.
CCP has previously stated that this is difficult to enact because of how fleet mechanics work, and I think a deployable to inhibit gang links might be a more implementable solution that provides a nice middle ground for countering links.
I too decided I should post the idea to the "Deployables Ideas Thread", and right after I did I saw the idea had been previously posted in the thread multiple times.
While I did do a forum search before creating the my F&I thread, I didn't see previous incarnations of the idea because I was using the "wrong" keywords. Alas, synonyms.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2070
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
953
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?
The counter is a high slot module and has been around for ages.
There are several variants. Arty Missiles Lasers Blasters
All are effective counters to OGB ships. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:12:00 -
[88] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?
The counter is a high slot module and has been around for ages. There are several variants. Arty Missiles Lasers Blasters All are effective counters to OGB ships.
You forgot probes.
More ships in space, on grid or off grid, is a good thing.
Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3575
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:16:00 -
[89] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO.
Soloing with links is an oxymoron!
The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
827
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:36:00 -
[90] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO. Soloing with links is an oxymoron! The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.
The same person you use to damp or jam logi could be probing out the hostile booster. Its not complicated. OGB usually have less than 10k ehp. Thats potentially 1sk'able.
Also, i was pointing out that 1v1 in an MMO was a pathetic notion. |
|
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
287
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:28:00 -
[91] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO. Soloing with links is an oxymoron! The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered. yeah soloing against somebody with a logi alt i doubt can be directly countered. ec-300s arnt as OP as they used to be. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
953
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
Castnicke Rinah wrote:At least it means we can laugh at them, knowing that without links they would have lost.
It's what I tell myself every time I die.
Good for you. Keep telling yourself that.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:46:00 -
[93] - Quote
I honestly don't see the problem with coding links on grid. The code is already there in the fleet watchlist - it only displays staus bars of on grid ships. It should be a simple matter to add the same flag to the fleet boosts.
IMO the issue is not a technical one at all and CCP are reluctant to put link alts in too much danger in fear of those accounts being unsubbed.
So we live with an arguably broken mechanic until CCP can come up with another use for alt accounts that require little in game effort to use. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1533
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
All the arguments have been presented. All that is left to this thread is trading of insults and the lock. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
953
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:05:00 -
[95] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:All the arguments have been presented. All that is left to this thread is trading of insults and the lock.
I think that's how the thread started.
Was all done in reverse to trick those pesky ISD killjoys.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
This idea has probably been posted somewhere already but I'm lazy.
1) Make link range 1 AU 2) GIve massive sig bloom penalty on link activation
So: - Ships using links always show up on 'short scan' while you're fighting - you get a rough idea of what you're up against - Parking alt on station or just outside POS shields isn't really viable anymore - Can be probed down easily - You stop worrying about ECCMing your booster, so you can make it tankier/more agile whatever
So links remain powerful but become more vulnerable and need a bit more active management. Much less vulnerable than being on-grid though.
Opens up some new gameplay: - If in a fleet, trying to get the other fleet's booster out of the equation (killing it, scaring it off, trying to engage enemy fleet in another location, ...) becomes a common tactic - doesn't mean it's always worth doing though. Nor will everyone and their mom run around with a 200tf expanded probe launcher all the time. You just get more tactical options - If in small gang, you can have one guy bait the 'boosted solo pilot' into activating his links while the rest of the gang tries to catch the booster; if booster runs/cloaks the bait guy may then try to solo the pilot without his links, etc. etc. - Using a booster alt requires some more skill - you need to move it close to the battle, make safesposts on the fly, ... - You can bait with a booster - ...
Reasonable compromise maybe? |
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
268
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:This idea has probably been posted somewhere already but I'm lazy.
1) Make link range 1 AU 2) GIve massive sig bloom penalty on link activation
So: - Ships using links always show up on 'short scan' while you're fighting - you get a rough idea of what you're up against - Parking alt on station or just outside POS shields isn't really viable anymore - Can be probed down easily - You stop worrying about ECCMing your booster, so you can make it tankier/more agile whatever
So links remain powerful but become more vulnerable and need a bit more active management. Much less vulnerable than being on-grid though.
Opens up some new gameplay: - If in a fleet, trying to get the other fleet's booster out of the equation (killing it, scaring it off, trying to engage enemy fleet in another location, ...) becomes a common tactic - doesn't mean it's always worth doing though. Nor will everyone and their mom run around with a 200tf expanded probe launcher all the time. You just get more tactical options - If in small gang, you can have one guy bait the 'boosted solo pilot' into activating his links while the rest of the gang tries to catch the booster; if booster runs/cloaks the bait guy may then try to solo the pilot without his links, etc. etc. - Using a booster alt requires some more skill - you need to move it close to the battle, make safesposts on the fly, ... - You can bait with a booster - ...
Reasonable compromise maybe?
Nope. Won-¦t change that links are a solo killer. Won-¦t change farming "solo" killmails vs pilots without links. Will make defense too easy in comparison to offense. Won-¦t change that whole corps quit eve because "oh okay they have links and we haven-¦t so guys stay docked, no pvp today". Won-¦t change that links are op like hell. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:28:00 -
[98] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Nope. Won-¦t change that links are a solo killer. Won-¦t change farming "solo" killmails vs pilots without links. Will make defense too easy in comparison to offense. Won-¦t change that whole corps quit eve because "oh okay they have links and we haven-¦t so guys stay docked, no pvp today". Won-¦t change that links are op like hell.
Exactly. The idea was to make link gameplay more interesting, not to eliminate it.
Also, I'm pretty sure a whole corp that would even consider the idea of staying docked, let alone quitting EVE altogether (really???) just because of not having links (that are trainable to a decent level in what, 2-3 months max?) would probably quit EVE for some other reason anyway. |
Silverbackyererse
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
My links were not too much - not as much as that bag of Acapulco Gold I acquired back in '89 for example. Good times.
|
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
880
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:35:00 -
[100] - Quote
I killed a link loki again yesterday <3 I don't understand how you don't love them. Even the scanning alone releases a decent doses of adrenalin. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
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Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
268
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 12:10:00 -
[101] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Colt Blackhawk wrote:Nope. Won-¦t change that links are a solo killer. Won-¦t change farming "solo" killmails vs pilots without links. Will make defense too easy in comparison to offense. Won-¦t change that whole corps quit eve because "oh okay they have links and we haven-¦t so guys stay docked, no pvp today". Won-¦t change that links are op like hell. Exactly. The idea was to make link gameplay more interesting, not to eliminate it. Also, I'm pretty sure a whole corp that would even consider the idea of staying docked, let alone quitting EVE altogether (really???) just because of not having links (that are trainable to a decent level in what, 2-3 months max?) would probably quit EVE for some other reason anyway.
You are prolly an ignorant nullbear. I know 80+ corps that don-¦t exist any more because they weren-¦t able to have 24/7 links today what is prolly mandatory. There are even "don-¦t go" systems in eve you shouldn-¦t go to if you don-¦t have minimum 2 links. 2 links and 3b pod would be better. But yeah... ourgankers want their links. Killing unlinked frig with linked frig is NOT pvp. It is ganking. You could join a highsec ganking corp. Would be the same. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
693
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 12:11:00 -
[102] - Quote
link are fine.
Other day we had 4 guys pvping, everyone had their own fleet and before we could engage enemy stabbed rifter we had to move approx 7 link alts to system and then blob the dangerous rifter.
after we left local and local count dropped form 12 to 1 which was rifter pilot with his capsule. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:I know 80+ corps that don-¦t exist any more because they weren-¦t able to have 24/7 links 80+? Wow! They could've formed an alliance to overcome enemy links with sheer numbers.
Colt Blackhawk wrote:Killing unlinked frig with linked frig is NOT pvp. It is ganking. 90% of EVE PVP is ganking, isn't it? Or do you instruct half of your fleet to go afk when you stumble upon an enemy fleet half your size?
Seriously now, it never is about 'fairness'. It's about making things more interesting, dynamic, fun. To me, OGBs just seem too boring a mechanic atm. Yawn. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
693
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:14:00 -
[104] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:90% of EVE PVP is ganking, isn't it? Or do you instruct half of your fleet to go afk when you stumble upon an enemy fleet half your size?
Actually, I try to hide from my fleet unless it starts getting 3-4:1. My corpmates have taken to putting cloaked alts outside my plexes so they know when targets come my way so they can rush in to try and ***** on the kills.
|
Smook
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 01:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:link are fine.
Other day we had 4 guys pvping, everyone had their own fleet and before we could engage enemy stabbed rifter we had to move approx 7 link alts to system and then blob the dangerous rifter.
after we left local and local count dropped form 12 to 1 which was rifter pilot with his capsule.
Now that's funny!
Bottom line: Links are equally available to everyone. If CCP restricted them to a select race or a select alliance then I could understand the upset. If you are losing... and believe it's because the other guy has links... get your own or go play World of Tanks all day.
Crying about a freely-available game mechanic just makes no sense.
Dear CCP: Please re-write the code so that I am the only person who ever wins but instead of everyone crying about it... I want them to all have to suck my balls over it and tell me how great I am.
That's what some of you want. Just admit it.
On the rare occasions that I win a PVP fight, it's not because I have links... or that I am better... it's almost always because the other guy DC'd. I will take what I can get though.
If CCP eliminated links from the game, I wonder what some of you would use as the excuse to justify your losses then... would be great to see that forum thread.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
956
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
Smook wrote:
If CCP eliminated links from the game, I wonder what some of you would use as the excuse to justify your losses then... would be great to see that forum thread.
TBH - That is why I prefer they are removed completely.
Removes their excuses for failure. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
956
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:24:00 -
[107] - Quote
chatgris wrote: Actually, I try to hide from my fleet unless it starts getting 3-4:1 or 1:1 against Laney. My corpmates have taken to putting cloaked alts outside my plexes so they know when targets come my way so they can rush in to try and ***** on the kills.
Good of you to admit what the rest of Gallente won't about the whole cloaky alt thing.
+1 To Chatgris for honesty about his corp and what lengths they need to go to compete with the Caldari.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:35:00 -
[108] - Quote
Smook wrote: Crying about a freely-available game mechanic just makes no sense.
Just because they are freely available (which is arguable at best) doesn't mean it's not broken.
Any time the counter to a mechanic is get another account so you can have your own it is broken. Simple.
Bringing the boosts on grid is a simple way to balance them out. You want the benefit - put them on the field. Alts were not invented for boosts etc, falcon alts were the bane of solo/small gang pvp for some time but they showed up on KM and if you knew how to you could somewhat counter them and killem when they entered the fight.
Then the 'leet' solo pvp'er realised that they could 'solo' with OGB's and people couldn't prove otherwise so they got a raging hard on about all the kills they were getting.
Boosts are fine when you scale up combat and everyone has them but for smaller scale they are just op'd to hell and back. Bring them on grid so they are vulnerable. As boost hunting is something you have to set yourself up for not something you can just do on the fly - you either need your own alt set up for it (again the argument of 'get your own' hence broken) or someone in your fleet needs to set up and remove themselves from being effective in combat.
Bringing them on grid is not as hard as CCP is making it out to be IMO (there is already code that operates on grid only - overview/fleet watchlists). I think they are just scared of all the subs they will lose for alt accounts if they do so, afterall someone has to pay for those accounts even if the players who use them plex it. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
958
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:29:00 -
[109] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote: falcon alts were the bane of solo/small gang pvp for some time but they showed up on KM
Well tbh. Before I used boosts I used to bring in a Griffin and not jam the wt unless it looked like I would lose.
They would see the griffin enter the plex - and start putting their effort into escaping over fighting. Making it less likely I would need to jam them - thus guaranteeing a solo kill in most fights.
95% of the time the Griffin was simply a visual weapon - capable of changing the behavior of the WT.
So '1v1' still wont exist. It never will in EVE. They will only be 1v1 with alts hovering to pounce.
I just came up with a new 'lol 1v1' tactic as I typed the last sentence - will try it tonight - It should be a real tear producer if it works.
Every now and then people actually have to fire a jam on someone and give up the 'SOLO KILL'. Their KB will still look like they are great at 'solo'
Links showing or not showing on killmails is irrelevant to the owner of the boost toon. Only the people without boosts seem to have that concern.
Wont bother anyone I know if CCP showed boosts on killmails.
But the TL;DR is If people hated Falcons so much before - Why are they so interested in going back to that? Why do they think this time it wont be much much worse. (And it will - ECM will be everywhere as that is the easiest and logical move for people who dont unsub their current boost toons) Not being able to lock the enemy at all is worse for '1v1's and new players than boosts are.
I personally will unsub my boost toon over going back to using ECM as dual boxing is not much fun.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
871
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 03:55:00 -
[110] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote: I personally will unsub my boost toon over going back to using ECM as dual boxing is not much fun.
Yeah your post pretty much nailed it about the difference when using boost toons v ecm alts.
Personally I used to prefer getting ecm'd as I knew who the ecm alts were and was ready to try and counter them when they appeared on field. As a solo pvp'er I can setup for general pvp and still have a counter plan for ecm'ing. This is not practical if I want to go roam to have a ship that I can pvp in as well as hunt down and kill OGB's toons.
Having said that I really don't worries about OGB too much as I can probably claim only about 15%-20% of my solo deaths are due to OGB.
But the above quote is by far the main reason IMO that CCP won't ever bring them on grid. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
695
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
If CCP would just put OGB on killmails, it would help
a) People concerned about killboard rankings would have an incentive not to use them b) People who had no idea wtf just happenned to their ships would see the booster on the killmail (especially new guys who may not know much about boosters). |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
958
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:09:00 -
[112] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:IbanezLaney wrote: I personally will unsub my boost toon over going back to using ECM as dual boxing is not much fun.
But the above quote is by far the main reason IMO that CCP won't ever bring them on grid.
I thought that too for ages but after hearing Fozzie at Eve Down Under I also now believe boosts will go ongrid at some point.
The real question now is - will they stay ongrid forever or will CCP change it back after a while when they see their bank balance going south?
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1536
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
I've heard the same 'CCP will lose money!' argument right before the last nano nerf and ECM nerf. Yawn. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
958
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 05:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I've heard the same 'CCP will lose money!' argument right before the last nano nerf and ECM nerf. Yawn.
So I pay $15 x 2 a month = $30 a month. When I have one account I pay $15 x 1 = $15 a month. CCP will lose $15 - So 50% of their earning potential from me a month.
Yawn???? Maffs????
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 06:40:00 -
[115] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I've heard the same 'CCP will lose money!' argument right before the last nano nerf and ECM nerf. Yawn.
yawn ya cos those nerfs are somehow connected to a second account???
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Mabego Tetrimon
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 07:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
chatgris wrote:If CCP would just put OGB on killmails, it would help
a) People concerned about killboard rankings would have an incentive not to use them b) People who had no idea wtf just happenned to their ships would see the booster on the killmail (especially new guys who may not know much about boosters).
+1
plus boosters need an agrression timer, if they start boosting, they are agressed.....that would make things more interesting ;) |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
324
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 07:15:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:chatgris wrote:If CCP would just put OGB on killmails, it would help
a) People concerned about killboard rankings would have an incentive not to use them b) People who had no idea wtf just happenned to their ships would see the booster on the killmail (especially new guys who may not know much about boosters). +1 plus boosters need an agrression timer, if they start boosting, they are agressed.....that would make things more interesting ;)
wouldnt care would still use them......
GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Baali Tekitsu
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
626
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 08:58:00 -
[118] - Quote
Honestly off grid links also bring many disadvantages that people seem to ignore. Admittedly they are practically invulnerable, but being off grid means also they cant switch between systems freely as other force multipliers which are on grid. This forces the guy using links to fight in a fixed system which more often than not completely diminishes the link benefits. Of course this is less of an disadvantage in (faction warfare) lowsec where most fights dont happen on gates but in deadspace and over a strategic objective. Faction warfare lowsec seems also to be the source of most of the tears so the solution in my opinion would be a incursion like system which forces links on grid in faction warfare lowsec and leave them off grid anywhere else. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
695
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 10:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Honestly off grid links also bring many disadvantages that people seem to ignore. Admittedly they are practically invulnerable, but being off grid means also they cant switch between systems freely as other force multipliers which are on grid. This forces the guy using links to fight in a fixed system which more often than not completely diminishes the link benefits. Of course this is less of an disadvantage in (faction warfare) lowsec where most fights dont happen on gates but in deadspace and over a strategic objective. Faction warfare lowsec seems also to be the source of most of the tears so the solution in my opinion would be a incursion like system which forces links on grid in faction warfare lowsec and leave them off grid anywhere else.
forcing on grid links means that there would be no links at all in FW fights in plexes because only large plex allows link ships to enter.
If CCP some day forces links on grid they should bring frigate size boost ships too. |
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 11:45:00 -
[120] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:
forcing on grid links means that there would be no links at all in FW fights in plexes because only large plex allows link ships to enter.
I'm fine with that. |
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1536
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 11:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:I've heard the same 'CCP will lose money!' argument right before the last nano nerf and ECM nerf. Yawn. yawn ya cos those nerfs are somehow connected to a second account???
So were all the Falcon alts that were going to cancel after they killed the 200km + Falcons. Or the Vagabond pilots who had invested billions in implants and faction gear. CCP didn't suffer financial collapse then and the game is better for it. |
Baali Tekitsu
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
626
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 13:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
To answer the thread title question: YES LINKS ARE WAY TOO MUCH. I trained my alt for more than 6 months and hes still not perfect, seriously what the hell. And now I need to buy and train a set of T3s and faction mindlinks which are 1bil a pair. Make them cheaper and get easier into, I painfully miss a second booster alt so Im more flexible about the location of my engagement and the ships/mindlinks should get cheaper too. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
644
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:55:00 -
[123] - Quote
Actually that's slightly incorrect. It's me that watches your plex gates, and that's simply so I can warp to the gate and kill things before they welp into you and your HG snakes and perfect boosts. I am doing Eve noobs a service forcing them to engage me instead, thus giving them a shot at winning. You just make people rage quit. I am all about the fair fight. Really...I am.
chatgris wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:90% of EVE PVP is ganking, isn't it? Or do you instruct half of your fleet to go afk when you stumble upon an enemy fleet half your size? Actually, I try to hide from my fleet unless it starts getting 3-4:1. My corpmates have taken to putting cloaked alts outside my plexes so they know when targets come my way so they can rush in to try and ***** on the kills.
I'm CEO *****.
|
Teh Nurffe
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 17:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Honestly off grid links also bring many disadvantages that people seem to ignore. Admittedly they are practically invulnerable, but being off grid means also they cant switch between systems freely as other force multipliers which are on grid. This forces the guy using links to fight in a fixed system which more often than not completely diminishes the link benefits. Of course this is less of an disadvantage in (faction warfare) lowsec where most fights dont happen on gates but in deadspace and over a strategic objective. Faction warfare lowsec seems also to be the source of most of the tears so the solution in my opinion would be a incursion like system which forces links on grid in faction warfare lowsec and leave them off grid anywhere else.
Honestly you should have links in all systems you fly, then you just switch between wings/squads. Easy.
Single link alt is so 90s |
Taoist Dragon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
874
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:
If CCP some day forces links on grid they should bring frigate size boost ships too.
Make dessies have a link ability. So small and up plexs would be able to field them but novice is still free from boosts. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 00:39:00 -
[126] - Quote
Here's another idea: Link Vending Machines!
100% safe indestructible structures, you'll find 'em in each and every system, conveniently anchored on grid with the sun.
Just 1 mil isk for every +1% boost to any stat, up to +30% each.
Warp-in, pay up, enjoy your boosts kind sir. Links for all!
You would also need to subscribe to this nifty service: fee is just 1 plex / month for Link Vending Machine access in all New Eden.
Yeah I know, silly game mechanic. Kinda reminds me of training & plexing an alt just to park it in safespots... |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
961
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:37:00 -
[127] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Yeah I know, silly game mechanic. Kinda reminds me of training & plexing an alt just to park it in safespots...
IKR.
Or buying one to park in Jita. a supercap an indy pos a bear park in null sec a Falcon
Cause they give their owners no advantage in eve at all............. which is why people buy them............ oh wait.
BAD PEOPLE HOW DARE YOU SUPPORT THIS GAME FINANCIALLY MORE THAN SOMEONE ELSE DOES. IT'S NOT FAIR.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Freako X
Doom Inc
122
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:59:00 -
[128] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:
If CCP some day forces links on grid they should bring frigate size boost ships too.
Make dessies have a link ability. So small and up plexs would be able to field them but novice is still free from boosts.
Yes to this!
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 04:14:00 -
[129] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:People pay for links to get an advantage.
Yup, I didn't say it's silly to use a silly mechanic if it gives you an edge.
But you know what's really unfair? That CCP forces us to go through all the hassle of subbing an alt, training skills and buying ships when they could really just implement these Link Vending Machines, with no significant difference vs current link gameplay. Or am I missing something?
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
962
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 04:57:00 -
[130] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:People pay for links to get an advantage. Yup, I didn't say it's silly to use a silly mechanic if it gives you an edge. But you know what's really unfair? That CCP forces us to go through all the hassle of subbing an alt, training skills and buying ships when they could really just implement these Link Vending Machines, with no significant difference vs current link gameplay. Or am I missing something?
Agreed.
I should also be able to fly a Falcon and Moa on the same toon at the same time and not need a 2nd account for it.
DAMN YOU CCP - SO UNFAIR.
Dude - I get what you are trying to say. But my point is that the advantage of a 2nd account is there no matter what it is doing.
Do market people complain that the next guy has 2 market toons and can double their turnover? Do the miners complain that another dude has mining boosts or 2 hulks and is getting a bigger profit for his time?
Sometimes it feels like I am in the mission runners forum section but - they complain less about things being unfair. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1315
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:People pay for links to get an advantage. Yup, I didn't say it's silly to use a silly mechanic if it gives you an edge. But you know what's really unfair? That CCP forces us to go through all the hassle of subbing an alt, training skills and buying ships when they could really just implement these Link Vending Machines, with no significant difference vs current link gameplay. Or am I missing something?
Dedication and commitement. You want a lazy ass approach that is magical and screw up all the mechanics of the game.
This is NOT WOW!!
You want something? You have to spent time, money and dedication or human skilsl to achieve it! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:11:00 -
[132] - Quote
Ok guys, if you interpreted my post as 'QQ links are soooo unfair' I guess I gotta train my satire skills some more.
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Seriously now, it never is about 'fairness'. It's about making things more interesting, dynamic, fun. To me, the main issue with OGBs atm is dull-ish gameplay, not OP-ness.
^^ This is what I replied to a QQ post just a page ago. Yeah, I don't like whiners either.
So to be clear: I'm strongly in favor of any change in links mechanics that would result in booster ships being more INTERACTED with. Such as bringing them on-grid (as CCP Fozzie suggested) or keeping them off-grid but making them easily scannable.
But hey, if some of you really prefer booster ships to continue being just an expensive and fairly safe deployable structure (hence my failed 'Vending Machine' satire attempt) instead of - you know - ships that people would actually fly, I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna change your mind.
Finally, if you're just trolling me, 10/10 I fell for it |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
463
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:41:00 -
[133] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I've heard the same 'CCP will lose money!' argument right before the last nano nerf and ECM nerf. Yawn.
I don't think a lot of these people understand the notion of improving your product leading to better sales. |
Teh Nurffe
Nasranite Watch
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 00:23:00 -
[134] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Ok guys, if you interpreted my post as 'QQ links are soooo unfair' I guess I gotta train my satire skills some more. Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Seriously now, it never is about 'fairness'. It's about making things more interesting, dynamic, fun. To me, the main issue with OGBs atm is dull-ish gameplay, not OP-ness. ^^ This is what I replied to a QQ post just a page ago. Yeah, I don't like whiners either. So to be clear: I'm strongly in favor of any change in links mechanics that would result in booster ships being more INTERACTED with. Such as bringing them on-grid (as CCP Fozzie suggested) or keeping them off-grid but making them easily scannable. But hey, if some of you really prefer booster ships to continue being just an expensive and fairly safe deployable structure (hence my failed 'Vending Machine' satire attempt) instead of - you know - ships that people would actually fly, I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna change your mind. Finally, if you're just trolling me, 10/10 I fell for it
They are easily scannable. CCP already changed that. If you don't have correct equipment to scan down those t3 cruisers it's once again different QQ |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
978
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 22:10:00 -
[135] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:I've heard the same 'CCP will lose money!' argument right before the last nano nerf and ECM nerf. Yawn. I don't think a lot of these people understand the notion of improving your product leading to better sales.
Eve is a niche with such a small audience that to gain enough new permanent players to make up for people unsubbing alts would be difficult.
How many 'players' do you think there really are when you consider most people have 2 accounts and I know many with 5+ and even a few who claim 9+.
So when it says 50k people online - how many people do you think are sitting at keyboards and sending CCP money each month?
Deduct 2-3k from the online figures for dust. Safe to assume 40% of the people online have 2 accounts logged in. (Likely more but being generous here) Applying common sense and rough math tells you that if there are around 22K individual players online at best. The rest are their alts.
I left my dusty logged in most of the weekend - So I alone was counted as 3 people on TQ. On that average there are 16K people when 50K are logged in.
Doesn't leave many single account holders even if you are generous with the figures.
The hard truth is: Eve is not popular with the general gaming community. It is just too hard for them and that's why they don't play. 99% don't even know what boost alts are and have never heard of them.
Are new players magically staying away from eve due to something they have never heard about? Obviously not. So it's not boosts stopping the game growing.
If CCP make the Eve more 'popular' - it will need to be so dumbed down so much for the general gaming population that its current player base will leave.
Not many individual people play this game. Keeping people with alts happy is where the $$$ is. The single account holder who complains about alts is not someone who keeps the $$$ rolling in for CCP.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 01:05:00 -
[136] - Quote
Do you have any numbers that aren't made up or anecdotal?
Quote:Eve is a niche with such a small audience that to gain enough new permanent players to make up for people unsubbing alts would be difficult.
When people quit in disgust or frustration, sales are typically worse than when they don't. Furthermore, Eve is a game predicated on player interaction. Pandering to multi-account players in light of that is phenomenally short-sighted. |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
980
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 01:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Do you have any numbers that aren't made up or anecdotal?
No I have common sense and the ability to ask people how many accounts they have. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
836
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 01:45:00 -
[138] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Do you have any numbers that aren't made up or anecdotal? Quote:Eve is a niche with such a small audience that to gain enough new permanent players to make up for people unsubbing alts would be difficult. When people quit in disgust or frustration, sales are typically worse than when they don't. Furthermore, Eve is a game predicated on player interaction. Pandering to multi-account players in light of that is phenomenally short-sighted.
I think the short way of putting what laney said, is;
The number of people who would be interested in a space submarine MMO or economy sim who have not already tried it and liked/disliked, it is very small.
Also, if were talking about made up numbers, your perceived new pool of players who would join because a mechanic they have never heard of in a game they dont have any interest in has been removed, is a prime example.
The minority of players in eve who seek solo pvp should not be catered to beyond their own ability to assess any situation they are getting into. Eve is hard yo. If you chose hard mode tru-solo then whining on the forum that other people dont is really quite sad. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 06:34:00 -
[139] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Do you have any numbers that aren't made up or anecdotal?
No
Alright then. No further questions.
Quote: Also, if were talking about made up numbers, your perceived new pool of players who would join because a mechanic they have never heard of in a game they dont have any interest in has been removed, is a prime example.
The minority of players in eve who seek solo pvp should not be catered to beyond their own ability to assess any situation they are getting into. Eve is hard yo. If you chose hard mode tru-solo then whining on the forum that other people dont is really quite sad.
Are you responding to someone else? |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
532
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 08:13:00 -
[140] - Quote
Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?
It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
|
Colt Blackhawk
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
272
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 09:05:00 -
[141] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?
It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.
BLAH. You know what? You don-¦t even need to probe ogb down. They mostly sit on station and if you agress them you will get blobbed to hell (+station guns, what means that you need to reship to kill it) or the ogb docks and the pilot belonging to it too because he has no clue how to fight without or even funnier: His ship fit would never wok without ogb. Implants on th other side are fine. Pods are very vulnerable. Ask Santo Trafficante :D Plus instalock dessies in a fight or intys are pods worst nightmare. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
982
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:24:00 -
[142] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?
It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.
^^ This man gets it.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
982
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:25:00 -
[143] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:
Grasping ......................................................... at......................................................Straws
We know man, we know. If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1549
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:00:00 -
[144] - Quote
As you see peeps using boosters add them and said alts to your watch list. If you see them come into your local, only ask two questions:
Can I get a blob together? Do I have my own links?
If the answer to both questions is no - dock up or get to a POS and wait for them to leave the system. Do not put any faith in having an encyclopedic knowledge of ship fits and resist holes and counters - it really doesn't matter. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote: We know man, we know.
I'm not the guy who made a length post composed of numbers pulled directly from my anus. |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome Caldari State Capturing
983
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:58:00 -
[146] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:IbanezLaney wrote: We know man, we know.
I'm not the guy who made a length post composed of numbers pulled directly from my anus.
I will help you. You know the old 'Give a man a fish .....' saying.
Here is your homework: Try asking people how many toons they have.
Look at corps you know - how many toons are in those corps and what % of those are alts. Magic right??? Who knew maths could work stuff/averages out???
I do not need figures from CCP to get a good ballpark average. You might not be capable of this - understandable.
But the irony here is - What you are accusing me of is actually what you yourself are guilty of. Your entire point is based on pure speculation about people who haven't even played eve yet that might play eve if something they don't know about isn't in the game they haven't played.
Crosi said it very well.
From your quoting of his post and your response, it is clear you did not comprehend what he posted either. Maybe read his post again and you will maybe, just maybe be able to work out who is pulling the most out of their anus.
If you want to get your soul to heaven, trust in me. Now don't judge or question. You are broken now, but faith can heal you. Just do everything I tell you to do. (Opiate - Tool) |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 20:17:00 -
[147] - Quote
Quote:Try asking people how many toons they have.
Look at corps you know - how many toons are in those corps and what % of those are alts. Magic right??? Who knew maths could work stuff/averages out???
My god. It's like several years of development in statistical science never happened. Your suggested methodology is incredibly poor and suggests you are either dishonest or don't understand rudimentary sampling principles.
By your methods, I conclude that only a bare handful of Eve players have multiple accounts and almost all of them are industrialists or alliance leaders, with >90% of Eve's pvpers having a single account and a maximum of three characters. It turns out that if you ask people you know how many alts they have, your sample is neither random nor representative and is highly unlikely to generalize. Who knew (aside from anyone who understands basic stats)?
Quote:From your quoting of his post and your response, it is clear you did not comprehend what he posted either
Crosi responded to claims I never made and was dismissed appropriately.
Quote:Your entire point is based on pure speculation about people who haven't even played eve yet that might play eve if something they don't know about isn't in the game they haven't played.
I never claimed anything of the sort. On the other hand, Crosi made a rather extraordinary claim about the untapped market for eve online. Perhaps you ought to direct your criticism of speculative remarks towards him. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
838
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:45:00 -
[148] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote: I never claimed anything of the sort. On the other hand, Crosi made a rather extraordinary claim about the untapped market for eve online. Perhaps you ought to direct your criticism of speculative remarks towards him.
Not speculation, eve retention rate is famously low. Its widely known that this is due to a poor/difficult new player experience where people struggle to make new friends or realise they are so far behind older players they incorrectly assume they cannot compete.
Far more people have tried eve than currently play it. Given that most of these players were new an probably didnt engage in any consensual pvp, its a fair assumption they were generally unaware of the existence of boosts.
ts hard to imagine there is a huge potential audience that just wont try the game because of a end game buff mechanic lol. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1562
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 00:07:00 -
[149] - Quote
Imagining that new - or veteran - players are turned off by OGB is no more preposterous then stating that a few dozen special snowflakes will make or break CCP. In business - for every person who is vocal and complains there are at least nine more who vote with their wallets and simply don't return. Why would this be different? CCP should always be looking to broaden the player base. Eve is difficult and yada yada yada - but it's better to have 50 people with 2 accounts each then 25 with 4 each. As they've spent quite a bit of time on the tutorial - it's safe to say they do care.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
838
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 00:36:00 -
[150] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Imagining that new - or veteran - players are turned off by OGB is no more preposterous then stating that a few dozen special snowflakes will make or break CCP. In business - for every person who is vocal and complains there are at least nine more who vote with their wallets and simply don't return. Why would this be different? CCP should always be looking to broaden the player base. Eve is difficult and yada yada yada - but it's better to have 50 people with 2 accounts each then 25 with 4 each. As they've spent quite a bit of time on the tutorial - it's safe to say they do care.
I agree. Maybe someone quit eve because of boosts. I disagree that it is a statistically significant occurrence. |
|
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3605
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 00:43:00 -
[151] - Quote
As has already been shown, the benefits of boosts are unbalanced compared to the risk/effort vs reward.
The proof is irrefutable, and we understand CCP enjoys income from 2nd accounts, and we understand people like the added power level boosts add to their fleetmates, it doesn't change the facts: Boosts are too much in their current state.
|
Freako X
Doom Inc
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 15:55:00 -
[152] - Quote
I think off-grid advocates are deluding themselves. It is harmful to the game. Can you think of a game that maintained an out of sight boosting class for pvp? Most games provided alternatives and then got rid of the OOS boosting. Just because you have an alt account, doesn't mean it is a reason for off-grid boosts. I have an alt account and guess what ... I don't off-grid boost.
It is better for the game long-term to have on-grid boosts. Makes fights more strategic.
Implants are on-grid ... . It doesn't take two targets to get rid of the bonus. Just the one pilot.
Not to get off-topic, but if I were an eve developer I'd advocate for:
No Local Chat. Alternative is no local in low and null-sec. Combine station chat (region or even just hubs) Add a low sec buffer between empires. Create a lower skill Destroyer command ship (Think Algos command dessie with 1 module). Add diversity to the stealth bombers (cruise missiles and dedicated bomber). Add a stealth bomber that targets capital ships (think Talos with citadel, torps or cruise, missiles). No OFF-GRID Boosts
|
Batelle
HOMELE55
2142
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 16:10:00 -
[153] - Quote
probe links kill links If you go fight someone on their turf then expect links
I only use links for pve "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
322
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 09:09:00 -
[154] - Quote
If CCP truly cared about boosts being offgrid they would make link module increase signature by a huge precental as a quick fix till they can get them ongrid. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3729
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 22:42:00 -
[155] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?
It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch.
Each warfare link has a power level similar to an entire pirate implant set.
Snake Implants 1-6 give a 24% boost to speed to ONE SHIP. Rapid deployment gives a 30% boost to EVERY MEMBER OF THE FLEET.
Furthermore, with your pirate implant set, you are limited to one major set of boosts. With links, you can have boosts akin to a Snake Set, a Crystal Set, a Halo set, and more, simultaneously, provided to every member of your fleet.
Frankly, links are way out of balance with the rest of EvE's mechanics. This is irrefutable to anyone that actually looks at the numbers. Paying for a second account does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Months of skill training does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Links truly need to be balanced. This may be a nerf of their bonus magnitudes. This may be a nerf to their safety (move them on grid). This may be a hard counter to links (link disruptors).
Here are some deployable structures I think would help balance links: A.) A device that you anchor in a system (like an ESS) that disables all fleet bonuses within the game. B.) A device that you anchor in space that disables all fleet bonuses on grid. Here is a link to the F&I Thread elaborating them.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
841
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:25:00 -
[156] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Complaining about links in lowsec is really top-notch. When are implants scheduled for dispute, like slaves?
It's one thing to fly with an OGB that can easily be probed down and killed, or to fly with a pirate-imp'ed pod that no one can ever touch. Each warfare link has a power level similar to an entire pirate implant set. Snake Implants 1-6 give a 24% boost to speed to ONE SHIP. Rapid deployment gives a 30% boost to EVERY MEMBER OF THE FLEET. Furthermore, with your pirate implant set, you are limited to one major set of boosts. With links, you can have boosts akin to a Snake Set, a Crystal Set, a Halo set, and more, simultaneously, provided to every member of your fleet. Frankly, links are way out of balance with the rest of EvE's mechanics. This is irrefutable to anyone that actually looks at the numbers. Paying for a second account does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Months of skill training does not justify an overpowered mechanic. Links truly need to be balanced. This may be a nerf of their bonus magnitudes. This may be a nerf to their safety (move them on grid). This may be a hard counter to links (link disruptors). Here are some deployable structures I think would help balance links: A.) A device that you anchor in a system (like an ESS) that disables all fleet bonuses within the game. B.) A device that you anchor in space that disables all fleet bonuses on grid. Here is a link to the F&I Thread elaborating them.
Dramiel is out of balance with the rifter. Doesnt say anything about game mechanics. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1583
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 02:09:00 -
[157] - Quote
Comet Slicer Firetail
And it's not a Rifter, but since you hold Amarr in high regards should still work:
Dramiel
Skill > isk. However - boosted vs unboosted will win 95% of the time. A monkey could do it. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1588
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 04:39:00 -
[158] - Quote
Gorski Car Platform
Not a fan of links but aggro timers would make me sit down on the subject. |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 11:55:00 -
[159] - Quote
Got to admit I didn't read the entire post but got thru most of the first pages and saw that people advocating for links talk about fighting outnumbered.
That's cool, I get what you're saying but there are guys who use links to boost their 1 vs 1 frig fights and they are unstoppable then. You cannot claim it's a decent mechanic.
When you get into a fight you often have no way of telling if the guy is linked. Sure - if you are one of the 3 people in the system and dscan shows that other ships are a rifter and a loki you can be pretty sure the other guy is linked to hell. But when you get yourself into a system with 10+ in local and the system is around 50AU in radius then how? How will you tell if you're going against a linked dude?
Links should either show on the KMs so the guy using them cannot claim to be a pro in solo, or be visible in game (graphical effect or sth) so you can gtfo when you see them. Or at least come prepared.
When you get jumped by a blob you see some warning on dscan. You can react to that. Links are just nasty surprise and a game breaker. Argument that you can bring your own links is a bit weak for me. It discourages roams, because links are easier to use near your home system, and actually hurts the overall experience. If nothing else - they make the game more tedious, exhausting and boring. Singature Radius 48 m |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
169
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 12:18:00 -
[160] - Quote
Risk vs gain is just crazy with links.
Offgrid boosters never get killed, unless you make a big mistake, they give the biggest bonus to the whole fleet. Pirate implant sets get rarely killed (unless you make a big mistake or go to nullsec) with nice effects for one person. Boosters only last for 2 hours or so, can backfire and still only give the smallest effect.
Balance would be, boosters give the biggest bonus, implants 2nd place and offgrid boosts 3rd. Edit: and should there someday be a difference between on and offgrid boosts, put ongrid boosters to 3rd place, off 4th |
|
Omara Otawan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 15:17:00 -
[161] - Quote
I honestly think that the way links are currently implemented is just a terrible game mechanic. Yes, I'm using them too, even in very small gangs (3-4 frigates). Not in solo, but that is just because I'm too lazy to move two chars.
In my opinion, they need to be diversified, and moved into the fight. Some changes I'd like to see:
1) Link sizes
Small Skirmish Warfare Link - can be fitted on command capable frigates - boosts squad members in a 50km radius
Medium Skirmish Warfare Link - can be fitted on command capable cruisers - boosts wing squad/members in a 100km radius
Large Skirmish Warfare Link - can be fitted on command capable battleships - boosts fleet squad/wing/fleet members within a 150km radius
2) Skill restrictions
Squad command Lvl5 - allows to use Small Warfare Links
Wing command Lvl5 - allows to use Medium Warfare Links
3) Race and ship class restrictions
Jaguar (or entirely new t1/t2 command frigate line) - can fit skirmish warfare links - maximum one link without command processor - bonus to link efficiency
Claymore - can fit skirmish warfare links - maximum two links without command processor - bonus to link efficiency
Minmatar t2 Command Battleship - can fit skirmish warfare links - maximum three links - bonus to link efficiency
4) Command Processors - can only be fitted on t2 command frig/cruiser/bc/bs - allows to fit up to 3 warfare links
|
Pew Terror
Green Associates TITANS.
141
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 15:48:00 -
[162] - Quote
Freako X wrote:I think off-grid advocates are deluding themselves. It is harmful to the game. Can you think of a game that maintained an out of sight boosting class for pvp? Most games provided alternatives and then got rid of the OOS boosting. Just because you have an alt account, doesn't mean it is a reason for off-grid boosts. I have an alt account and guess what ... I don't off-grid boost. It is better for the game long-term to have on-grid boosts. Makes fights more strategic. Implants are on-grid ... . It doesn't take two targets to get rid of the bonus. Just the one pilot. Not to get off-topic, but if I were an eve developer I'd advocate for: No Local Chat. Alternative is no local in low and null-sec. Combine station chat (region or even just hubs) Add a low sec buffer between empires. Create a lower skill Destroyer command ship (Think Algos command dessie with 1 module). Add diversity to the stealth bombers (cruise missiles and dedicated bomber). Add a stealth bomber that targets capital ships (think Talos with citadel, torps or cruise, missiles). No OFF-GRID Boosts
DAoC, SWG, Rift, EQ... Buffbots have a lot of tradition.
|
Zoe Fishpants
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:21:00 -
[163] - Quote
I don't care much about links one way or the other, although I definitely don't bother with people I know are boosted if I can avoid it.. I used to like visiting Smook, and I think I gave him and his corp some decent fights from time to time. Now that they've gone linky I don't bother. I don't mind dying horribly and do it quite often, but I do like to have a marginal chance.
Getting the booster on the km would pretty much solve the shriveled e-peen that comes from being welped by a boosted pilot. I doubt it will ever happen, but it would certainly go a long way towards killing any complaints I may have about links. My e-peen is precious and too much shriveling makes it difficult to care for. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1025
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 23:17:00 -
[164] - Quote
Zoe Fishpants wrote: I used to like visiting Smook, and I think I gave him and his corp some decent fights from time to time. Now that they've gone linky I don't bother.
Confirming that Smook is a bad person. Docked since 2009. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
304
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 10:25:00 -
[165] - Quote
I don't know man; I spend 9 months training up leadership. That's almost 15mill SP. Of course I want to see the benefits of that. Not to mention that during all that time I've also had to pay for 2 accounts. Still paying for 2 now.
You could argue that it is P2W I suppose, but 2 accounts > 1 account. That's just the reality. If it's not boosts it's a Falcon alt, Neut alt, ...
That said, I would have no problem at all with boosters (and logi for that matter) to show up on the killmails. I don't even think I would mind if they forced boosters to actually be on grid. CS are pretty bulky though, if they force boosters to be on grid I would like a frigate / destroyer sized link ship.
My 2c. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1899
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:16:00 -
[166] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:I don't know man; I spend 9 months training up leadership. That's almost 15mill SP. Of course I want to see the benefits of that. Not to mention that during all that time I've also had to pay for 2 accounts. Still paying for 2 now.
You could argue that it is P2W I suppose, but 2 accounts > 1 account. That's just the reality. If it's not boosts it's a Falcon alt, Neut alt, ...
That said, I would have no problem at all with boosters (and logi for that matter) to show up on the killmails. I don't even think I would mind if they forced boosters to actually be on grid. CS are pretty bulky though, if they force boosters to be on grid I would like a frigate / destroyer sized link ship.
My 2c. They're pretty ridiculous at tanking though. I can get a 1k dps nighthawk omni XL tank 100mn ab, 500 dps to 650 dps heavy assult fit and 1.5k m/s O/H at 23s align. Last for a good 19 minutes permarunning and boosting two T2 shield links.. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
305
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:49:00 -
[167] - Quote
In a fast moving frig gang, they are a little slow though. Unless you like waiting on every gate for your CS to exit warp. Make boosting on grid, and add destroyer / frigate sized link ships. Sorted! :) |
Jimmy Caldari
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:33:00 -
[168] - Quote
As someone who garners a large amount of his pocket money from giving mining boosts in enaluri for isk (100m per hour for max boosts) I think links are fine as they are.
More importantly they more easily allow smaller groups to engage larger ones with some potential for success. You should consider them not as something that is OP PLS NERF but rather as a force multiplier. If you want to put a stop to all those "solo" pilots with links out the anoos then make them show on killmails. |
Colt Blackhawk
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
279
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 10:55:00 -
[169] - Quote
Well. ONE REALLY IMPORTANT ARGUMENT. Links make CCPs job to balance out ships hard if even impossible. Why? Okay lets say you want to Balance ship A. You have not only to take a look how it performs with standard point, tank, dps but also how it performs in fleet etc. Now you need to balance same ship A for 0.0 and skip the point. Maybe it performs too good now. And now you have to balance same ship again and again if it has links. There are whole corps flying already with ship fits that would be impossible to fly effectively without links. This makes CCPs job almost impossible. Example? Just take the condor. It is quite well balanced. You can always try to loop the kitey condor etc. Now give it links and you have an overkilling machine. Same with interceptors. Awesome small speed with awesome small sig radius making whole weapon system like drones and light missiles useless. Tripledamp hookbills? Usually hard to fly because of lack of speed etc. But with links a non issue. Too many variables for CCPs employees to balance ships. Far too many. Now all the crybabies who don-¦t know how to undock without 2 links for "solo" pvp you are welcome to flame me. But you know I am right. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
357
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 12:14:00 -
[170] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks.
Snakes were nerfed not terribly long ago as they provided over twice the boost they do now. What that tells the class is that CCP recognized the difference between advantaged and overpowered in regards to implant sets (the price of which should never justify effectiveness). And to reap the rewards of using those implants, you have to put them in harms way. Not so with links, there is no downside to using them until killboards can downscore you for using them, which is unlikely to happen.
Your comparison is garbage.
|
|
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 23:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
Off Grid Boosts = No Risk of losing T3 Implants = Very Risky, a high chance of losing being podded.
Seems pretty black and white to me. No shades of grey. I would be happy with either of the 2 solutions:
1) Nerf off grid boosts hard. If someone wants to train up a off-grid booster for 1 - 2% increase in (x) stats, well then I'd be fine with that. If this was implemented, at least people would think twice about roaming around with these alts since they provide such a small stat increase. However, at least they would still give somewhat of a "home advantage."
2) Abolish off-grid boosts and force (x) ship to be on grid for boosts to apply. |
Sion Barzhad
Caldari Privateers Group Templis CALSF
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 10:02:00 -
[172] - Quote
I feel like links in general should provide half of their boosts/benefits if they're off grid and provide full boosts when they're on grid |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
850
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 12:26:00 -
[173] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. Snakes were nerfed not terribly long ago as they provided over twice the boost they do now. What that tells the class is that CCP recognized the difference between advantaged and overpowered in regards to implant sets (the price of which should never justify effectiveness). And to reap the rewards of using those implants, you have to put them in harms way. Not so with links, there is no downside to using them until killboards can downscore you for using them, which is unlikely to happen. Your comparison is garbage.
I do get tired of people saying links are immune to danger. Just because you personally lack the skills or will to fit a counter ship to probe and quickly vaporise safed up link boats is really your problem. They are no longer hard to probe and some greedy boosting alts dont even overly boost their sensor strength anyway.
As for aggression, i think this is fair enough. Boosting from gates or stations might be discouraged, but any solution that puts a defenceless ship on grid, or takes ships out of space altogether is obviously undesirable.
The changes required to tech 3 hulls, subs, links and command processors to make them viable on grid would require a complete redesign. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
552
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 14:51:00 -
[174] - Quote
The only counter to a linked ship is another linked ship. That's pretty much the definition of "overpowered". I don't understand how that can be argued.
Offgrid link boosting supporters are just pay2win adepts. It's not dedication, because you can dedicate you skill time to link, you won't have anything OP. What is OP is using a link ship offgrid with even less risk than an implanted pod and make your ship basicaly immune to anything but a blob or a linked ship (I'm not even sure a non linked blob can take on a good linked ship).
As to probing, this is the funniest joke here. To probe a linked ship, you need a dedicated prober (because of ECCM) and actively probe it down versus the linked ship who only need to stay aligned or near a station/pos for absolutely no danger. Really, losing a link ship to a prober is no more likely than losing a pod in a gate camp and the only reason people lose it is because they are dual boxing. That's not a counter.
And this : Quote:The changes required to tech 3 hulls, subs, links and command processors to make them viable on grid would require a complete redesign. show that people don't even care to properly fit their ship, they only go for max link, which tells a lot about how exposed to danger they are.
As for the economy pseudo argument, dual account is not only used for linked ships. In fact, I tend to think link ship are most used in low sec by pseudo soloers, because there is plenty of other reasons for them otherwise : industry, transport, multi-toon pve, capital ships, scoot, ewar in fleet, spy, and whatever I forget. The economic aspect of removing offgrid boosting is close to inexistant and might largely be compensated by people staying because they know the only thing which will hurt them will be on grid and not millions of kilometers away. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
714
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 16:34:00 -
[175] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. Snakes were nerfed not terribly long ago as they provided over twice the boost they do now. What that tells the class is that CCP recognized the difference between advantaged and overpowered in regards to implant sets (the price of which should never justify effectiveness). And to reap the rewards of using those implants, you have to put them in harms way. Not so with links, there is no downside to using them until killboards can downscore you for using them, which is unlikely to happen. Your comparison is garbage.
So all you think about eve is killboards :(
makes me bit sad,
anyway there is lot of different thingies that can help you to get kills and those does not show up on mail at all, example remote repping and remote sensor/tracking boosting. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
714
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 16:36:00 -
[176] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:The only counter to a linked ship is another linked ship. That's pretty much the definition of "overpowered". I don't understand how that can be argued. Offgrid link boosting supporters are just pay2win adepts. It's not dedication, because you can dedicate you skill time to link, you won't have anything OP. What is OP is using a link ship offgrid with even less risk than an implanted pod and make your ship basicaly immune to anything but a blob or a linked ship (I'm not even sure a non linked blob can take on a good linked ship). As to probing, this is the funniest joke here. To probe a linked ship, you need a dedicated prober (because of ECCM) and actively probe it down versus the linked ship who only need to stay aligned or near a station/pos for absolutely no danger. Really, losing a link ship to a prober is no more likely than losing a pod in a gate camp and the only reason people lose it is because they are dual boxing. That's not a counter. And this : Quote:The changes required to tech 3 hulls, subs, links and command processors to make them viable on grid would require a complete redesign. show that people don't even care to properly fit their ship, they only go for max link, which tells a lot about how exposed to danger they are. As for the economy pseudo argument, dual account is not only used for linked ships. In fact, I tend to think link ship are most used in low sec by pseudo soloers, because there is plenty of other reasons for them otherwise : industry, transport, multi-toon pve, capital ships, scoot, ewar in fleet, spy, and whatever I forget. The economic aspect of removing offgrid boosting is close to inexistant and might largely be compensated by people staying because they know the only thing which will hurt them will be on grid and not millions of kilometers away.
there is other counters than just another link ship, one of those is called covert ops with combat scanners. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
714
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 16:38:00 -
[177] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Off Grid Boosts = No Risk of losing T3 Implants = Very Risky, a high chance of losing being podded.
Seems pretty black and white to me. No shades of grey. I would be happy with either of the 2 solutions:
1) Nerf off grid boosts hard. If someone wants to train up a off-grid booster for 1 - 2% increase in (x) stats, well then I'd be fine with that. If this was implemented, at least people would think twice about roaming around with these alts since they provide such a small stat increase. However, at least they would still give somewhat of a "home advantage."
2) Abolish off-grid boosts and force (x) ship to be on grid for boosts to apply.
if people actually would do something and try to kill link alts those are as vulnerable than your pod. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
850
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 18:16:00 -
[178] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Off Grid Boosts = No Risk of losing T3 Implants = Very Risky, a high chance of losing being podded.
Seems pretty black and white to me. No shades of grey. I would be happy with either of the 2 solutions:
1) Nerf off grid boosts hard. If someone wants to train up a off-grid booster for 1 - 2% increase in (x) stats, well then I'd be fine with that. If this was implemented, at least people would think twice about roaming around with these alts since they provide such a small stat increase. However, at least they would still give somewhat of a "home advantage."
2) Abolish off-grid boosts and force (x) ship to be on grid for boosts to apply. if people actually would do something and try to kill link alts those are as vulnerable than your pod.
Moreso. Ive lost one pod to santo, and 2 to disconnects using a terrible public wifi. I have never been tackled in my pod after losing my ship in combat. Literally never. i will quite hapilly fight dozens of interceptors in my maulus and have done on a number of occasions.
I have, however, had my booster probed out and ganked.
Did have a few close calls recently tho, one was a smartbombing corm which decloaked with logi that apparently does 2hp short of killing a full skilled pod and this run-in with santo which will be avoided in future. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2118
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 20:14:00 -
[179] - Quote
Boosters on kms! Save our e-peen! |
Santo Trafficante
Black Caste Jazz Club
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 23:23:00 -
[180] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Off Grid Boosts = No Risk of losing T3 Implants = Very Risky, a high chance of losing being podded.
Seems pretty black and white to me. No shades of grey. I would be happy with either of the 2 solutions:
1) Nerf off grid boosts hard. If someone wants to train up a off-grid booster for 1 - 2% increase in (x) stats, well then I'd be fine with that. If this was implemented, at least people would think twice about roaming around with these alts since they provide such a small stat increase. However, at least they would still give somewhat of a "home advantage."
2) Abolish off-grid boosts and force (x) ship to be on grid for boosts to apply. if people actually would do something and try to kill link alts those are as vulnerable than your pod. Moreso. Ive lost one pod to santo, and 2 to disconnects using a terrible public wifi. I have never been tackled in my pod after losing my ship in combat. Literally never. i will quite hapilly fight dozens of interceptors in my maulus and have done on a number of occasions. I have, however, had my booster probed out and ganked. Did have a few close calls recently tho, one was a smartbombing corm which decloaked with logi that apparently does 2hp short of killing a full skilled pod and this run-in with santo which will be avoided in future.
'' will be avoided in the future'' |
|
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
360
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 00:32:00 -
[181] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. Snakes were nerfed not terribly long ago as they provided over twice the boost they do now. What that tells the class is that CCP recognized the difference between advantaged and overpowered in regards to implant sets (the price of which should never justify effectiveness). And to reap the rewards of using those implants, you have to put them in harms way. Not so with links, there is no downside to using them until killboards can downscore you for using them, which is unlikely to happen. Your comparison is garbage. So all you think about eve is killboards :( makes me bit sad, anyway there is lot of different thingies that can help you to get kills and those does not show up on mail at all, example remote repping and remote sensor/tracking boosting.
I actually hate killboards, I've said more than once that killmails only serve to kill off 'gudfights'.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1045
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 01:16:00 -
[182] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote: I actually hate killboards, I've said more than once that killmails only serve to kill off 'gudfights'.
I have heard people say this and seen it posted on the forums numerous times.
But not once has anyone but forward a valid reason as to why/how killboards effect fights.
Docked since 2009. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
850
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 01:18:00 -
[183] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Val'Dore wrote: I actually hate killboards, I've said more than once that killmails only serve to kill off 'gudfights'.
I have heard people say this and seen it posted on the forums numerous times. But not once has anyone but forward a valid reason as to why/how killboards effect fights.
Also, only posted by people with terrible killboards. Not that killboards matter to people who have good killboards. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
850
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 01:24:00 -
[184] - Quote
Santo Trafficante wrote: '' will be avoided in future''
Its true, ill just warp to a safe or get pointed on field :p
Either way im happy :) |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
703
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 05:24:00 -
[185] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Val'Dore wrote: I actually hate killboards, I've said more than once that killmails only serve to kill off 'gudfights'.
I have heard people say this and seen it posted on the forums numerous times. But not once has anyone but forward a valid reason as to why/how killboards effect fights.
Killboards cause me to hide from my corpmates so I get more BC points.
So they affect fights by reducing blobbing. Not that I consider this a bad thing. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
931
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 06:03:00 -
[186] - Quote
Killboards are a simple way to measure one's effectiveness in combat.
I'm not saying that they are the 'best' measurement but they give some players a tool to measure their performance.
For me personally I don't care about my overall killboard 'score' as such but I do keep tabs on my solo kill record on my personal KB. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
664
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
This wasn't a comparison , simply wanting to know what link haters thought about snakes doesn't make my statement "garbage". But hey, douches gonna douche...
Oh and the snake nerf was ages ago you twit.
Val'Dore wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:One question to the link haters, say I have HG snakes in my head...and get more speed out of that, is that game breaking as well? Or is that okay because it cost me 3b isk? Or because there is more risk involved? Just curious what everyone thinks. Snakes were nerfed not terribly long ago as they provided over twice the boost they do now. What that tells the class is that CCP recognized the difference between advantaged and overpowered in regards to implant sets (the price of which should never justify effectiveness). And to reap the rewards of using those implants, you have to put them in harms way. Not so with links, there is no downside to using them until killboards can downscore you for using them, which is unlikely to happen. Your comparison is garbage.
I'm CEO *****.
|
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Repeat 0ffenders
664
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 19:12:00 -
[188] - Quote
What?! You actually logged on and played Eve? LIES!
chatgris wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Val'Dore wrote: I actually hate killboards, I've said more than once that killmails only serve to kill off 'gudfights'.
I have heard people say this and seen it posted on the forums numerous times. But not once has anyone but forward a valid reason as to why/how killboards effect fights. Killboards cause me to hide from my corpmates so I get more BC points. So they affect fights by reducing blobbing. Not that I consider this a bad thing.
I'm CEO *****.
|
Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos
143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 04:16:00 -
[189] - Quote
The only thing I don't like about killboards is the ability to see the fits that your enemy is using |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
311
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 09:51:00 -
[190] - Quote
Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 11:13:00 -
[191] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really.
lol ok, please link a tengu or prot fit that has a respectable tank, mobility and at least some dps as well as 3 links. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
715
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 11:30:00 -
[192] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really.
warfare sub on t3 ships is defensive subsystem so try to tank those properly without that. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1609
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 11:32:00 -
[193] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. lol ok, please link a tengu or prot fit that has a respectable tank, mobility and at least some dps as well as 3 links.
What was the original design intent? 'This ship can only have a tank and one link so we'll give it a huge bonus to that one link!' How do Eve players actually use it? Another case of the rubber hitting the road in a fashion that CCP didn't anticipate. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
186
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 12:01:00 -
[194] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. lol ok, please link a tengu or prot fit that has a respectable tank, mobility and at least some dps as well as 3 links.
LOL, please explain to me why a ship should be really good at 4 things (links, tank, mobility and damage). If you get that I want a megathron with 12 high slots, 8 mid slots, and 16 low slots - that way one of my ships could also be good at everything (I'll take bandwith and 2 extra drones/level of gallente BS too) |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
715
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:12:00 -
[195] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. lol ok, please link a tengu or prot fit that has a respectable tank, mobility and at least some dps as well as 3 links. LOL, please explain to me why a ship should be really good at 4 things (links, tank, mobility and damage). If you get that I want a megathron with 12 high slots, 8 mid slots, and 16 low slots - that way one of my ships could also be good at everything (I'll take bandwith and 2 extra drones/level of gallente BS too)
Because command ships does that already |
Starbuck05
Evil Monkey Asylum Evil Monkeys Asylum
166
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:32:00 -
[196] - Quote
Links are good..
Its the people that use them in 1vs1 situations then brag how leet they are... Is bad.
Ccp nerf leet pvp'ers !! -á- I am the commanding officer , u should adress me as sir ! -á- But if i call u sir , what would i call your wife then ?? |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:41:00 -
[197] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. lol ok, please link a tengu or prot fit that has a respectable tank, mobility and at least some dps as well as 3 links. What was the original design intent? 'This ship can only have a tank and one link so we'll give it a huge bonus to that one link!' How do Eve players actually use it? Another case of the rubber hitting the road in a fashion that CCP didn't anticipate.
I think looking at associated mechanics such as tripple complementary links per class, command processors, the way that bonuses are passed down a hierarchy, not to mention that they used to only bonus a single class of link now they all bonus 3 classes, should outright debunk your take on the original premise of single link t3 command.
Unless you really think CCP expected to have one link in FC, one link in WC and one link in each squad leader position.
Ive seen some bad posts but this one shows how desperate anti boost advocates are to put a spin on this debate. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1609
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:40:00 -
[198] - Quote
T3 used to boost 5% to CS 3% per lvl. I don't think CCP believing that T3 would field less links then a CS and thus needing a stronger bonus to compensate is a real big ******* stretch. Recent ad hoc changes may reflect reality but not original design intent. The fact that CCP ignores ship balancing from 2009 to 2011 is just icing on the cake. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:29:00 -
[199] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:T3 used to boost 5% to CS 3% per lvl. I don't think CCP believing that T3 would field less links then a CS and thus needing a stronger bonus to compensate is a real big ******* stretch. Recent ad hoc changes may reflect reality but not original design intent. The fact that CCP ignores ship balancing from 2009 to 2011 is just icing on the cake.
Its a stretch. Quite a big one. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
190
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:05:00 -
[200] - Quote
Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy. |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:31:00 -
[201] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy.
Because reading other peoples posts is too hard. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
715
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:09:00 -
[202] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy.
on grid is bit complicated, if you think about interceptor who tackle enemies some where in the system they would never benefit about links.
People who wants links to on grid only think too small. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
190
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:32:00 -
[203] - Quote
Off grid boosting is risk averse pvp. You can dress it up, put nice shoes on it, give it all kinds of reasons that it's ok, but it isn't.
Everyone knows it - it's just that some folks are afraid to lose their low low low risk advantage. It's like the empire neutral logi crap that took years to fix. This may take years also, but the inevitable will eventually come to pass.
Personally I don't see how you guys can stomache doing it little lone come on the forums and defend it. The place for a command ship is in the fight. Just man up and put you assets in the fight. They do super damage btw, playing cowardly lion with them is just a waste of DPS.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 04:47:00 -
[204] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Off grid boosting is risk averse pvp. You can dress it up, put nice shoes on it, give it all kinds of reasons that it's ok, but it isn't.
Everyone knows it - it's just that some folks are afraid to lose their low low low risk advantage. It's like the empire neutral logi crap that took years to fix. This may take years also, but the inevitable will eventually come to pass.
Personally I don't see how you guys can stomache doing it little lone come on the forums and defend it. The place for a command ship is in the fight. Just man up and put you assets in the fight. They do super damage btw, playing cowardly lion with them is just a waste of DPS.
Im sorry, but its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. No offense.
Ill let you get back to gate camping quiet null sec pipes. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
716
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:37:00 -
[205] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Off grid boosting is risk averse pvp. You can dress it up, put nice shoes on it, give it all kinds of reasons that it's ok, but it isn't.
Everyone knows it - it's just that some folks are afraid to lose their low low low risk advantage. It's like the empire neutral logi crap that took years to fix. This may take years also, but the inevitable will eventually come to pass.
Personally I don't see how you guys can stomache doing it little lone come on the forums and defend it. The place for a command ship is in the fight. Just man up and put you assets in the fight. They do super damage btw, playing cowardly lion with them is just a waste of DPS.
as i said people who want on grid links think too small, most of fights are over before your command ships arrives to grid.
Maybe you should try something else than just blob everything with command ships and logistics and T3 ships. |
Greggles Midboss
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:33:00 -
[206] - Quote
Why is this thread still going.... |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1609
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:20:00 -
[207] - Quote
Greggles Midboss wrote:Why is this thread still going....
11 pages is not statistically significant. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
191
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:47:00 -
[208] - Quote
Just for the record for you judgemental ninnies that think you have me pegged. I don't live in null. I've never lived in null. A large gang for me is 12. Please don't correlate that I like commanc ships on grid to 'because I fly in massive null blobby fleets' - If you look at my kb you'll plainly see you're just making youselves look ninny-ish.
You guys are so risk averse that you can't even fathom there are pilots in this game that are all about putting their stuff on the line. Sweet mother of pearl - it's just a ship. Get it on grid and blow some stuff up.
I do think big. I think about the game long term. I think about the health of pvp overall. I'm no expert - I'm just a player that's been around small gang pvp for years. I've been on various comms with hundreds of guys over the years. I'll say this about that. There are a lot of folks that are risk averse out there. Off grid boosting is just another manifestation of that.
On a side note - snakes were nerfed because crows were going over 10k m/s. It was dumb and they fixed it.
Anyway, if you can afford a boosting account - you can afford to put the booster on grid. Stop being a bunch of Marys |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
716
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:59:00 -
[209] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Just for the record for you judgemental ninnies that think you have me pegged. I don't live in null. I've never lived in null. A large gang for me is 12. Please don't correlate that I like commanc ships on grid to 'because I fly in massive null blobby fleets' - If you look at my kb you'll plainly see you're just making youselves look ninny-ish.
You guys are so risk averse that you can't even fathom there are pilots in this game that are all about putting their stuff on the line. Sweet mother of pearl - it's just a ship. Get it on grid and blow some stuff up.
I do think big. I think about the game long term. I think about the health of pvp overall. I'm no expert - I'm just a player that's been around small gang pvp for years. I've been on various comms with hundreds of guys over the years. I'll say this about that. There are a lot of folks that are risk averse out there. Off grid boosting is just another manifestation of that.
On a side note - snakes were nerfed because crows were going over 10k m/s. It was dumb and they fixed it.
Anyway, if you can afford a boosting account - you can afford to put the booster on grid. Stop being a bunch of Marys
links has been there as long as i have played EVE and those have not stopped pvp on long term so you are thinking small once again.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:45:00 -
[210] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Just for the record for you judgemental ninnies that think you have me pegged. I don't live in null. I've never lived in null. A large gang for me is 12. Please don't correlate that I like commanc ships on grid to 'because I fly in massive null blobby fleets' - If you look at my kb you'll plainly see you're just making youselves look ninny-ish.
You guys are so risk averse that you can't even fathom there are pilots in this game that are all about putting their stuff on the line. Sweet mother of pearl - it's just a ship. Get it on grid and blow some stuff up.
I do think big. I think about the game long term. I think about the health of pvp overall. I'm no expert - I'm just a player that's been around small gang pvp for years. I've been on various comms with hundreds of guys over the years. I'll say this about that. There are a lot of folks that are risk averse out there. Off grid boosting is just another manifestation of that.
On a side note - snakes were nerfed because crows were going over 10k m/s. It was dumb and they fixed it.
Anyway, if you can afford a boosting account - you can afford to put the booster on grid. Stop being a bunch of Marys
My booster is on a grid, just not the grid i am fighting on. If you are so lazy that you cannot take the fight to my boosters grid thats not my fault. |
|
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 00:34:00 -
[211] - Quote
Read all the 11 pages. Alot stupid comments and comparisons in there imho. Some funny and even some good toughts.
Anyway i do think offgrid boosting shouldnt be removed. They are allready vulnerable. You can probe them down, alpha at station or catch at gates. You know how to decloak cloakies on gates right? However if them needs to be nerfed just nerf the amount of boost they give. Lets say for example make 30% bonus to 20% bonus. Maybe even add sig penalty on activated links for easier scanning to make ppl happy.
I havent ever used personal links myself. Im about to finish my T2 link alt training tho. Which i trained mostly to catch those who do kitey solo stuff with links. However hostile links havent ever bothered me that much. Never raged about it nor logged out cause of it. Havent even seen so much links on solo fights. Sometimes yes but its not that big deal imo. I know theres also alot fleets roaming out there without links..
Im not going to bring links on grid mostly because dualboxing with 2 accounts on grid with one monitor is something im not intrested.
And at the end i think bad players are bigger problem. Those who cries about links even when you dont use them... |
Ella Echerie
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:59:00 -
[212] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy. on grid is bit complicated, if you think about interceptor who tackle enemies some where in the system they would never benefit about links. People who wants links to on grid only think too small.
Why should an interceptor who tackles enemies some where in the system benefit from said links? They already have the tools at their disposal to do their job.
Bad Messenger wrote:as i said people who want on grid links think too small, most of fights are over before your command ships arrives to grid.
The fight that is over before CS lands on grid is likely to be destroyer/frigate sized hulls, and on a small scale. Why should a large hulled ship that can't even get to the fight quick enough have an impact on the outcome?
I'm a pretty inexperienced pvper, I've never used links and out of 70 or so solo fights I don't think I've ever faced a linked ship. So they haven't been a problem or a boon for me, but on face value and from a logical risk/reward standpoint they do seem a bit out of line. I don't know how to fix them though, putting them on grid would require quite a few other changes to make it viable. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
718
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:49:00 -
[213] - Quote
Ella Echerie wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Let's just put them on grid and then everyone will be happy. on grid is bit complicated, if you think about interceptor who tackle enemies some where in the system they would never benefit about links. People who wants links to on grid only think too small. Why should an interceptor who tackles enemies some where in the system benefit from said links? They already have the tools at their disposal to do their job. Bad Messenger wrote:as i said people who want on grid links think too small, most of fights are over before your command ships arrives to grid. The fight that is over before CS lands on grid is likely to be destroyer/frigate sized hulls, and on a small scale. Why should a large hulled ship that can't even get to the fight quick enough have an impact on the outcome? I'm a pretty inexperienced pvper, I've never used links and out of 70 or so solo fights I don't think I've ever faced a linked ship. So they haven't been a problem or a boon for me, but on face value and from a logical risk/reward standpoint they do seem a bit out of line. I don't know how to fix them though, putting them on grid would require quite a few other changes to make it viable.
point is . there is nothing to fix, links are fine as they are now. You can kill them if you want, but whiners are just lazy people who want that CCP kills links for them so they do not have to think out of the box. |
Lilith Velkor
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:27:00 -
[214] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really.
I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link.
Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard.
About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there.
The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang.
Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
722
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:05:00 -
[215] - Quote
Lilith Velkor wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link. Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard. About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there. The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang. Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime.
EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:07:00 -
[216] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: EVE is not solo game, get some friends
I do get tired of people putting solo PVP on a pedestal as though its anything more than a glorified rock/paper/scissors game.
Entering into a fair fight in EVE is doing it wrong. Balance should not be focussed at the 1v1 level.
You cant brag about hard mode solo pvp while at the same time grumbling about other people not playing the way you want them to. |
Lilith Velkor
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:05:00 -
[217] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships.
Well, if you feel the booster warps too slow for your inty, bridge them both to the grid with a titan. It's not a solo game, so get a friend with a titan, it's less effort than suicide ganking a damnation even. See, this line of argumentation isn't going anywhere.
What this whole discussion boils down to is this:
Why should fleet boosters not be required to be on grid, while every other force multiplier needs to be? I still havent heard a single valid argument.
And just to avoid any misunderstandings, we use boosters too. On grid sometimes, off grid sometimes, depends on the actual gang setup.
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
723
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:13:00 -
[218] - Quote
Lilith Velkor wrote:Bad Messenger wrote: EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships.
Well, if you feel the booster warps too slow for your inty, bridge them both to the grid with a titan. It's not a solo game, so get a friend with a titan, it's less effort than suicide ganking a damnation even. See, this line of argumentation isn't going anywhere. What this whole discussion boils down to is this: Why should fleet boosters not be required to be on grid, while every other force multiplier needs to be? I still havent heard a single valid argument. And just to avoid any misunderstandings, we use boosters too. On grid sometimes, off grid sometimes, depends on the actual gang setup.
you sure know that you can not light up cyno everywhere. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3801
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:56:00 -
[219] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:
point is . there is nothing to fix, links are fine as they are now. You can kill them if you want, but whiners are just lazy people who want that CCP kills links for them so they do not have to think out of the box.
Your message is bad....
Links are unbalanced, and only willfully ignorant players claim otherwise.
|
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1151
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:37:00 -
[220] - Quote
The on/off grid thing is a smokescreen, links are hugely overpowered wherever they are. In a world where we pay around 60-100 mill for a single ship to increase its tackle range by 25-40%, the existence of a 2 mill mod that gives 24% range to every ship in your fleet is absurdly OP. |
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1048
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:55:00 -
[221] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:The on/off grid thing is a smokescreen, links are hugely overpowered wherever they are. In a world where we pay around 60-100 mill for a single ship to increase its tackle range by 25-40%, the existence of a 2 mill mod that gives 24% range to every ship in your fleet is absurdly OP.
Which 2 mil mod are you talking about?
Oh - the one that needs a toon trained for 9 months + 360 mil mindlink + a command ship that can be killed at anytime just like any other toon/pod.
Docked since 2009. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1152
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:58:00 -
[222] - Quote
No. The 2 mill one fitted on a T1 BC without a mindlink. If I played by your rules, it would be 34.5%.
And the SP requirement is simply a barrier to exclude new players. If you're going to have such stupidly overpowered modules, then they need to be available to everyone. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1048
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:05:00 -
[223] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:No. The 2 mill one fitted on a T1 BC without a mindlink.
And the SP requirement is simply a barrier to exclude new players. If you're going to have such stupidly overpowered modules, then they need to be available to everyone.
The modules are available to everyone. That is the entire point. Just like hauler alts, mining alts, mission alts or any other alt that gives an advantage over having one toon in eve.
In your theory - all beginners should have access to a Titan cause you know..... SP barriers.
And a link on a T1 BC is not that powerful. (Excluding maybe one of the info ones).
Docked since 2009. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1152
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 23:29:00 -
[224] - Quote
I just told you that a link on a T1 BC gives 24% to tackle range! It converts your entire gang's T2 points into RF ones, at a cost of 2 mill instead of 130 mill per ship. If you think that's not a huge difference, you need to use links more!
The point is not in who the advantage is available to, it is the that the magnitude of the advantage is too great. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 23:58:00 -
[225] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Lilith Velkor wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link. Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard. About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there. The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang. Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime. EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships.
Always grinds my gears when people say this..
Eve is a solo game, just like it is a small gang & large scale PvP game. It's sandbox remember?
The problem is off-grid links NOT ONLY has such a large impact on Solo PvP, but ALSO small gang PvP. I have no doubt in my mind off-grid boosts will eventually get nerfed, giving such a large advantage whilst being so risk adverse simply doesn't make sense. Think about it, if they were willing to nerf ECM not long ago (falcon alts), it's inevitable off-grid boosts will be as well. I think I speak for many when I say I'd rather deal with a Falcon on grid then an off-grid booster.
People say highsec carebears are bad.... Some of you proclaimed "PvP'ers" need to start putting your balls on the field and man up.
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
854
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:09:00 -
[226] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Lilith Velkor wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link. Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard. About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there. The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang. Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime. EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships. Always grinds my gears when people say this.. Eve is a solo game, just like it is a small gang & large scale PvP game. It's sandbox remember? The problem is off-grid links NOT ONLY has such a large impact on Solo PvP, but ALSO small gang PvP. I have no doubt in my mind off-grid boosts will eventually get nerfed, giving such a large advantage whilst being so risk adverse simply doesn't make sense. Think about it, if they were willing to nerf ECM not long ago (falcon alts), it's inevitable off-grid boosts will be as well. I think I speak for many when I say I'd rather deal with a Falcon on grid then an off-grid booster. People say highsec carebears are bad.... Some of you proclaimed "PvP'ers" need to start putting your balls on the field and man up.
EvE Literraly stands for Everyone vs Everyone. There is little basis to support focussed 1v1 balancing.
Balance has been and always should be based on individual roles, not flying alone.
Your choice to go hard mode solo should not be at the expense of other peoples specialised characters who are trained to fill specific roles.
Though, i can understand. If i went hard mode solo and got spanked day in day out like you do, i perhaps would see it your way too. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:33:00 -
[227] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Lilith Velkor wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link. Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard. About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there. The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang. Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime. EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships. Always grinds my gears when people say this.. Eve is a solo game, just like it is a small gang & large scale PvP game. It's sandbox remember? The problem is off-grid links NOT ONLY has such a large impact on Solo PvP, but ALSO small gang PvP. I have no doubt in my mind off-grid boosts will eventually get nerfed, giving such a large advantage whilst being so risk adverse simply doesn't make sense. Think about it, if they were willing to nerf ECM not long ago (falcon alts), it's inevitable off-grid boosts will be as well. I think I speak for many when I say I'd rather deal with a Falcon on grid then an off-grid booster. People say highsec carebears are bad.... Some of you proclaimed "PvP'ers" need to start putting your balls on the field and man up. EvE Literraly stands for Everyone vs Everyone. There is little basis to support focussed 1v1 balancing. Balance has been and always should be based on individual roles, not flying alone. Your choice to go hard mode solo should not be at the expense of other peoples specialised characters who are trained to fill specific roles. Though, i can understand. If i went hard mode solo and got spanked day in day out like you do, i perhaps would see it your way too.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, gotta' love the little poke in the end of your post. Was this an attempt to "make me mad?"
Yeah, it is "Everyone Vs Everyone," I'm apart of "Everyone" right? I just choose to fight against Everyone (wow, I just confused myself! haha)
I quiet enjoy the challenge of solo, ganking and blobbing I don't really fancy. No challenge, but each to their own.
And yeah, I do agree with you. T3 boosts are a ***** to deal with when soloing, especially when the guy your going up against is also claiming to be "solo" as well (*cough, cough T3 boosts*). But, you know personally I just don't engage these guys anymore, period. There are many other targets out there to pew pew at. :)
However, I like how you failed to mention the impact on small gang PvP.
Based on individual roles huh? Can we get a ship that perma-jams up to 20 ships on field whilst also being able to provide boosts to the whole fleet into the game? Yeah, that's not broken... that's the role of the ship!!!!
Your post really is foolish, and the hostility is entertaining to say the least. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
854
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:40:00 -
[228] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote: Your post really is foolish, and the hostility is entertaining to say the least.
Not hostility, empathy. Anyone that dies as much as you has 2 choices;
1. Get better at what they do. 2. Complain on the forums.
Both are valid, do continue. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:46:00 -
[229] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote: Your post really is foolish, and the hostility is entertaining to say the least.
Not hostility, empathy. Anyone that dies as much as you has 2 choices; 1. Get better at what they do. 2. Complain on the forums. Both are valid, do continue.
I do both sweetheart, is there a problem with that? As a matter of fact, my only complaint ever, in relation to PvP has been about off-grid boosts.
Must say I'm not doing too bad in comparison to some others out there. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1051
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 01:02:00 -
[230] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Lilith Velkor wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link. Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard. About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there. The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang. Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime. EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships. Always grinds my gears when people say this.. Eve is a solo game, just like it is a small gang & large scale PvP game. It's sandbox remember? The problem is off-grid links NOT ONLY has such a large impact on Solo PvP, but ALSO small gang PvP. I have no doubt in my mind off-grid boosts will eventually get nerfed, giving such a large advantage whilst being so risk adverse simply doesn't make sense. Think about it, if they were willing to nerf ECM not long ago (falcon alts), it's inevitable off-grid boosts will be as well. I think I speak for many when I say I'd rather deal with a Falcon on grid then an off-grid booster. People say highsec carebears are bad.... Some of you proclaimed "PvP'ers" need to start putting your balls on the field and man up.
Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly. If you want a solo game try Tetris.
If concord are an issue for you - Then you need to adapt and remove them from the equation by pvping in low or null sec and stop being risk averse by wanting NPC protection.
It is 100% your own doing if concord are available in the system you 'pvp' in. (Pretending high sec pvp is real pvp just for you cause I'm a nice guy)
You have the issue so you need to adapt - Not the people you refuse to compete with.
You say you would really rather a Falcon on field than a booster be used??? Really???? I somehow doubt that is true. Other people would rather be able to fire/web/scram than just die with no ability to fight back. (Except you of course)
CCP might nerf boosts further but their bottom line will suffer considerably. The people who use boosts are not against saving $15 a month.
It is people like yourself who are against others spending an extra $15 a month who have the issue.
What will you want removed if boosts go? You will need another excuse for your failure then. ECM? Damps? Combat Alts? Larger corps? Docked since 2009. |
|
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 01:25:00 -
[231] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote: Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly. If you want a solo game try Tetris.
If concord are an issue for you - Then you need to adapt and remove them from the equation by pvping in low or null sec and stop being risk averse by wanting NPC protection.
It is 100% your own doing if concord are available in the system you 'pvp' in. (Pretending high sec pvp is real pvp just for you cause I'm a nice guy)
You have the issue so you need to adapt - Not the people you refuse to compete with.
You say you would really rather a Falcon on field than a booster be used??? Really???? I somehow doubt that is true. Other people would rather be able to fire/web/scram than just die with no ability to fight back. (Except you of course)
CCP might nerf boosts further but their bottom line will suffer considerably. The people who use boosts are not against saving $15 a month.
It is people like yourself who are against others spending an extra $15 a month who have the issue.
What will you want removed if boosts go? You will need another excuse for your failure then. ECM? Damps? Combat Alts? Larger corps?
Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly? I think this video disagrees with you.
Yes I would much rather a Falcon on grid, because it's still very viable to split targets away from the Falcon where they have no impact on the fight. Very hard, yes... but it's achievable. No matter what you do, a T3 off-grid booster will always have an impact.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1052
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:23:00 -
[232] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:IbanezLaney wrote: Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly. If you want a solo game try Tetris.
If concord are an issue for you - Then you need to adapt and remove them from the equation by pvping in low or null sec and stop being risk averse by wanting NPC protection.
It is 100% your own doing if concord are available in the system you 'pvp' in. (Pretending high sec pvp is real pvp just for you cause I'm a nice guy)
You have the issue so you need to adapt - Not the people you refuse to compete with.
You say you would really rather a Falcon on field than a booster be used??? Really???? I somehow doubt that is true. Other people would rather be able to fire/web/scram than just die with no ability to fight back. (Except you of course)
CCP might nerf boosts further but their bottom line will suffer considerably. The people who use boosts are not against saving $15 a month.
It is people like yourself who are against others spending an extra $15 a month who have the issue.
What will you want removed if boosts go? You will need another excuse for your failure then. ECM? Damps? Combat Alts? Larger corps?
Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly? I think this video disagrees with you. Yes I would much rather a Falcon on grid, because it's still very viable to split targets away from the Falcon where they have no impact on the fight. Very hard, yes... but it's achievable. No matter what you do, a T3 off-grid booster will always have an impact.
It is still silly no matter how many you tube links you post.
The dude in that video is not 'solo'.
He is using links. Example: Look at both the unheated and over heated point ranges from 21:21 on.
Seems the video you linked agrees with me.
Docked since 2009. |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:57:00 -
[233] - Quote
complains about links and then posts a linked "solo" vid way to go there buddy GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
931
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:57:00 -
[234] - Quote
Solo in an MMO is perfectly viable and all the go find friends arguments are silly. We all fly how we want and find fun.
I solo the majority of time however I'm social and like chatting to friends I know in game. Yes I fly with them from time to time and yes I can have extended period where I am pretty much a small gang pilot. Then I get the 'urge' and just have to go a wanderin'
As for Boosts I have no problem with them as a concept. My issue is the extent they boost is way out of balance with everything else in eve. I don't argue costs around having the alts etc as TBH alts is a way of life in eve and if they weren't boosters, they'd be cloaky scouts or ECM alts etc. But the actual cost of the ship + implants is what?! (2b ish?) dunno as I'm never space rich enough to buy those. But it scales very badly as the boosts are generally better than 2-3 full pirate implant sets & deadspace/faction modules.
They are a way of life in eve and I'll actively avoid known booster users while out solo'ing. As for the choice. Yes I'd rather face an ecm alt in a fight as there are ways to counter them much easier than scanning out a booster alt and killing it. Lets face it if it was that easy to scan them and kill them they wouldn't be used so much tbh. And having them show up on KM will stop a lot of the rage around them as people couldn't claim solo when they are using multiple toons.
Oooo and think of the rage when the Leet pvp'ers have all there BC dropped to next to nothing for killing that 10mil isk frig with a a bil+ worth of ships etc. It would be worth it just to see the rage on the forums That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 06:11:00 -
[235] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:IbanezLaney wrote: Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly. If you want a solo game try Tetris.
If concord are an issue for you - Then you need to adapt and remove them from the equation by pvping in low or null sec and stop being risk averse by wanting NPC protection.
It is 100% your own doing if concord are available in the system you 'pvp' in. (Pretending high sec pvp is real pvp just for you cause I'm a nice guy)
You have the issue so you need to adapt - Not the people you refuse to compete with.
You say you would really rather a Falcon on field than a booster be used??? Really???? I somehow doubt that is true. Other people would rather be able to fire/web/scram than just die with no ability to fight back. (Except you of course)
CCP might nerf boosts further but their bottom line will suffer considerably. The people who use boosts are not against saving $15 a month.
It is people like yourself who are against others spending an extra $15 a month who have the issue.
What will you want removed if boosts go? You will need another excuse for your failure then. ECM? Damps? Combat Alts? Larger corps?
Expecting solo in an MMO is beyond silly? I think this video disagrees with you. Yes I would much rather a Falcon on grid, because it's still very viable to split targets away from the Falcon where they have no impact on the fight. Very hard, yes... but it's achievable. No matter what you do, a T3 off-grid booster will always have an impact. It is still silly no matter how many you tube links you post. The dude in that video is not 'solo'. He is using links. Example: Look at both the unheated and over heated point ranges from 21:21 on. Seems the video you linked agrees with me.
Isn't it convenient you ignored the first 20 minutes. LMAO! Just... gotta'... find... anything...to..rebut... with.
If you would like me to, I can post a list of solo PvP videos (full length videos without links) if you like. My apologies for posting a video where "some" fights were with links. Why does it feel like I'm talking to a group of teens right now...... I'm scared
P.S - I guess the video not only demonstrates the viability of "Solo" play, but also demonstrates just how ******* strong links are. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 07:29:00 -
[236] - Quote
I do not know why solo pilot should even be able to kill guy who has links boosting, at least it is 1 vs 2 anyway.
Only problem seems to be that people are mad because boosters are 'hidden' somewhere and they can not shoot those, even if those would be on grid they could not do anything to that ship with their tiny solo pwnage frigate.
Truth about link is that those makes small fleets able to engage bigger blobs easier so link actually support small gang pvp not prevent those.
Solo in MMO is bit tricky business but some people still do it and are pretty good on it no matter if they have links or not. Other just die even they have links.
EVE is about larger set of thing affecting single attribute and that is what makes EVE good, it can be always different if you want to test out different strategies and links only give more variety to game.
|
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 07:54:00 -
[237] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:I do not know why solo pilot should even be able to kill guy who has links boosting, at least it is 1 vs 2 anyway.
Only problem seems to be that people are mad because boosters are 'hidden' somewhere and they can not shoot those, even if those would be on grid they could not do anything to that ship with their tiny solo pwnage frigate.
Truth about link is that those makes small fleets able to engage bigger blobs easier so link actually support small gang pvp not prevent those.
Solo in MMO is bit tricky business but some people still do it and are pretty good on it no matter if they have links or not. Other just die even they have links.
EVE is about larger set of thing affecting single attribute and that is what makes EVE good, it can be always different if you want to test out different strategies and links only give more variety to game.
Do you think people would be less inclined to use their T3 booster alts so often when forced to utilise them on grid? I think they would be, especially in solo and small gang combat. Why? Because of the traffic that passes through. Whilst you might be all "hnnnng frigate can't hurt my T3!," the small gang (3rd party) about to jump in system will most likely turn your T3 into space junk.
Willing to risk your T3 to still do this, that is fine by me. At least there is some risk involved in utilising such a tool that provides a huge advantage.
As a matter of fact, if this is your way of thinking things out, wouldn't a frigate be great bait!
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
855
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:23:00 -
[238] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:[ Isn't it convenient you ignored the first 20 minutes. LMAO! Just... gotta'... find... anything...to..rebut... with. If you would like me to, I can post a list of solo PvP videos (full length videos without links) if you like. My apologies for posting a video where "some" fights were with links. Why does it feel like I'm talking to a group of teens right now...... I'm scared P.S - I guess the video not only demonstrates the viability of "Solo" play, but also demonstrates just how ******* strong links are.
If there is an overwhelming abundance of tru solo videos out there, surely that demonstrates there isnt a massive problem with boosts?
Solo in a sandbox MMO is a valid form of PVP, no doubt. However, it is not a valid expectation. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:46:00 -
[239] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:[ Isn't it convenient you ignored the first 20 minutes. LMAO! Just... gotta'... find... anything...to..rebut... with. If you would like me to, I can post a list of solo PvP videos (full length videos without links) if you like. My apologies for posting a video where "some" fights were with links. Why does it feel like I'm talking to a group of teens right now...... I'm scared P.S - I guess the video not only demonstrates the viability of "Solo" play, but also demonstrates just how ******* strong links are. If there is an overwhelming abundance of tru solo videos out there, surely that demonstrates there isnt a massive problem with boosts? Solo in a sandbox MMO is a valid form of PVP, no doubt. However, it is not a valid expectation. Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote: Do you think people would be less inclined to use their T3 booster alts so often when forced to utilise them on grid? I think they would be, especially in solo and small gang combat. Why? Because of the traffic that passes through. Whilst you might be all "hnnnng frigate can't hurt my T3!," the small gang (3rd party) about to jump in system will most likely turn your T3 into space junk.
Willing to risk your T3 to still do this, that is fine by me. At least there is some risk involved in utilising such a tool that provides a huge advantage.
As a matter of fact, if this is your way of thinking things out, wouldn't a frigate be great bait!
Wow, spoken like someone who has only ever PvPs on a gate. I barely ever PvP on gates lol. You are making wide sweeping conclusions from a place of little experience.Get back to your gate camp fella.
For soloists, yes boosts aren't that much of a problem because we simply don't engage anything if a known a T3 booster is in system. Small gang is very much the same as well. You can be the judge is you think this is a good thing or not, it's not as if anyone will change you view on the argument anyway....
I guess this guy doesn't know what an Interceptor or Force Recon ship is...... Yeh, I also only ever like to PvP on a gate +1 intel for you! |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:02:00 -
[240] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not know why solo pilot should even be able to kill guy who has links boosting, at least it is 1 vs 2 anyway.
Only problem seems to be that people are mad because boosters are 'hidden' somewhere and they can not shoot those, even if those would be on grid they could not do anything to that ship with their tiny solo pwnage frigate.
Truth about link is that those makes small fleets able to engage bigger blobs easier so link actually support small gang pvp not prevent those.
Solo in MMO is bit tricky business but some people still do it and are pretty good on it no matter if they have links or not. Other just die even they have links.
EVE is about larger set of thing affecting single attribute and that is what makes EVE good, it can be always different if you want to test out different strategies and links only give more variety to game.
Do you think people would be less inclined to use their T3 booster alts so often when forced to utilise them on grid? I think they would be, especially in solo and small gang combat. Why? Because of the traffic that passes through. Whilst you might be all "hnnnng frigate can't hurt my T3!," the small gang (3rd party) about to jump in system will most likely turn your T3 into space junk. Willing to risk your T3 to still do this, that is fine by me. At least there is some risk involved in utilising such a tool that provides a huge advantage. As a matter of fact, if this is your way of thinking things out, wouldn't a frigate be great bait!
i do not know what kind of eve you play but there is never risk to lose anything in eve. You may lose something only if you allow someone to kill it. Bringing link to grid does not make those any more vulnerable than those are now.
|
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:07:00 -
[241] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:[ Isn't it convenient you ignored the first 20 minutes. LMAO! Just... gotta'... find... anything...to..rebut... with. If you would like me to, I can post a list of solo PvP videos (full length videos without links) if you like. My apologies for posting a video where "some" fights were with links. Why does it feel like I'm talking to a group of teens right now...... I'm scared P.S - I guess the video not only demonstrates the viability of "Solo" play, but also demonstrates just how ******* strong links are. If there is an overwhelming abundance of tru solo videos out there, surely that demonstrates there isnt a massive problem with boosts? Solo in a sandbox MMO is a valid form of PVP, no doubt. However, it is not a valid expectation. Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote: Do you think people would be less inclined to use their T3 booster alts so often when forced to utilise them on grid? I think they would be, especially in solo and small gang combat. Why? Because of the traffic that passes through. Whilst you might be all "hnnnng frigate can't hurt my T3!," the small gang (3rd party) about to jump in system will most likely turn your T3 into space junk.
Willing to risk your T3 to still do this, that is fine by me. At least there is some risk involved in utilising such a tool that provides a huge advantage.
As a matter of fact, if this is your way of thinking things out, wouldn't a frigate be great bait!
Wow, spoken like someone who has only ever PvPs on a gate. I barely ever PvP on gates lol. You are making wide sweeping conclusions from a place of little experience.Get back to your gate camp fella. For soloists, yes boosts aren't that much of a problem because we simply don't engage anything if a known a T3 booster is in system. Small gang is very much the same as well. You can be the judge is you think this is a good thing or not, it's not as if anyone will change you view on the argument anyway.... I guess this guy doesn't know what an Interceptor or Force Recon ship is...... Yeh, I also only ever like to PvP on a gate +1 intel for you!
I do not mind if enemy has links, we put prober working on those and then we give some pvp and maybe kill links if they are careless maybe not, but things are even , we have links and they have links, and we try to kill guys who has links and we try to kill their links, all at same time. I do not see any problem on links. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
119
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:55:00 -
[242] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not know why solo pilot should even be able to kill guy who has links boosting, at least it is 1 vs 2 anyway.
Only problem seems to be that people are mad because boosters are 'hidden' somewhere and they can not shoot those, even if those would be on grid they could not do anything to that ship with their tiny solo pwnage frigate.
Truth about link is that those makes small fleets able to engage bigger blobs easier so link actually support small gang pvp not prevent those.
Solo in MMO is bit tricky business but some people still do it and are pretty good on it no matter if they have links or not. Other just die even they have links.
EVE is about larger set of thing affecting single attribute and that is what makes EVE good, it can be always different if you want to test out different strategies and links only give more variety to game.
Do you think people would be less inclined to use their T3 booster alts so often when forced to utilise them on grid? I think they would be, especially in solo and small gang combat. Why? Because of the traffic that passes through. Whilst you might be all "hnnnng frigate can't hurt my T3!," the small gang (3rd party) about to jump in system will most likely turn your T3 into space junk. Willing to risk your T3 to still do this, that is fine by me. At least there is some risk involved in utilising such a tool that provides a huge advantage. As a matter of fact, if this is your way of thinking things out, wouldn't a frigate be great bait! i do not know what kind of eve you play but there is never risk to lose anything in eve. You may lose something only if you allow someone to kill it. Bringing link to grid does not make those any more vulnerable than those are now.EDIT: and yes, frigate is good bait, put frigate to fight, probe links, kill them.
Whatever you're smoking... I'd love some. Can we be friends? |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
30
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:55:00 -
[243] - Quote
Most of all I want boosters to be seen/obvious. Add them to KB or add some graphical effect - idc. I just don't want to be forced into an engagement that is going to be boring and pointless. I also cba to waste my time checking local of 10+ to see if someone might be a link alt. Yes I can do it - but after 5th time in one day I kinda start to wonder why...
Links do just that - they add a completely new layer of tedious tasks you have to do in order to have fun and remain competitive. They are counter productive way of making low sec a place for gankers, who think it's time to step up after killing tons of ventures, but still can't stand the possibility the victim will have means to reliably fight back.
People are against them because they are ********, not because they loose a ship now and then.
Funny how people advocate for links because "EVE is MMO and MMO means group". You're using your alts dammit. How is you + yourself MMO? If that' true then Baldurs Gate and Dragon Age I were constant multiplayer - you could play 4-5 incarnations of yourself at the same time!
Ganking a links ship will require resources, skills and many other stuff people dealing with them won't have. And why should we? Why do I have to engage the guy (so the link ship decloaks), scan him down, and kill him fast? It's a couple of people forced to deal with with 1 dumb mechanic, placed in game only so teenagers could brag about how good they are in solo.
It's a way of crooking pvp one way or the other. Make them obvious and they will die off, because retards will have no one to fight. People using them to fight outnumbered will get some fights as long as the other side has chances. Solved. Ofc most of people here use fighting outnumbered as an excuse only, because from what I've seen - links are used solely to get a fast, reliable way of pumping their KBs. Singature Radius 48 m |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:07:00 -
[244] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:I do not know why solo pilot should even be able to kill guy who has links boosting, at least it is 1 vs 2 anyway.
Only problem seems to be that people are mad because boosters are 'hidden' somewhere and they can not shoot those, even if those would be on grid they could not do anything to that ship with their tiny solo pwnage frigate.
Truth about link is that those makes small fleets able to engage bigger blobs easier so link actually support small gang pvp not prevent those.
Solo in MMO is bit tricky business but some people still do it and are pretty good on it no matter if they have links or not. Other just die even they have links.
EVE is about larger set of thing affecting single attribute and that is what makes EVE good, it can be always different if you want to test out different strategies and links only give more variety to game.
Do you think people would be less inclined to use their T3 booster alts so often when forced to utilise them on grid? I think they would be, especially in solo and small gang combat. Why? Because of the traffic that passes through. Whilst you might be all "hnnnng frigate can't hurt my T3!," the small gang (3rd party) about to jump in system will most likely turn your T3 into space junk. Willing to risk your T3 to still do this, that is fine by me. At least there is some risk involved in utilising such a tool that provides a huge advantage. As a matter of fact, if this is your way of thinking things out, wouldn't a frigate be great bait! i do not know what kind of eve you play but there is never risk to lose anything in eve. You may lose something only if you allow someone to kill it. Bringing link to grid does not make those any more vulnerable than those are now.EDIT: and yes, frigate is good bait, put frigate to fight, probe links, kill them. Whatever you're smoking... I'd love some. Can we be friends?
yes we can, 2b and we can be friends
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:10:00 -
[245] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Most of all I want boosters to be seen/obvious. Add them to KB or add some graphical effect - idc. I just don't want to be forced into an engagement that is going to be boring and pointless. I also cba to waste my time checking local of 10+ to see if someone might be a link alt. Yes I can do it - but after 5th time in one day I kinda start to wonder why...
Links do just that - they add a completely new layer of tedious tasks you have to do in order to have fun and remain competitive. They are counter productive way of making low sec a place for gankers, who think it's time to step up after killing tons of ventures, but still can't stand the possibility the victim will have means to reliably fight back.
People are against them because they are ********, not because they loose a ship now and then.
Funny how people advocate for links because "EVE is MMO and MMO means group". You're using your alts dammit. How is you + yourself MMO? If that' true then Baldurs Gate and Dragon Age I were constant multiplayer - you could play 4-5 incarnations of yourself at the same time!
Ganking a links ship will require resources, skills and many other stuff people dealing with them won't have. And why should we? Why do I have to engage the guy (so the link ship decloaks), scan him down, and kill him fast? It's a couple of people forced to deal with with 1 dumb mechanic, placed in game only so teenagers could brag about how good they are in solo.
It's a way of crooking pvp one way or the other. Make them obvious and they will die off, because retards will have no one to fight. People using them to fight outnumbered will get some fights as long as the other side has chances. Solved. Ofc most of people here use fighting outnumbered as an excuse only, because from what I've seen - links are used solely to get a fast, reliable way of pumping their KBs.
Maybe you are just in wrong game. Best thing in EVE is complexity and fact that nothing is so simple than it 1st seem to be. |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:28:00 -
[246] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Make them obvious and they will die off, because retards will have no one to fight. . Maybe you are just in wrong game. Best thing in EVE is complexity and fact that nothing is so simple than it 1st seem to be.
Let's redesign newbie forums then. When someone asks for guidelines tell him: "first of all start a 2nd account, browse market till you find strategic cruisers and check the requirements. Then work your skill plan around that. When it comes to your main account - oh, just think what will be fun to get into, and remember: people had success in pvp from day 0. All it takes is good attitude".
Complex I can understand, but links are a stealthy way to make pvp fight unwinnable to the other side. Call it a mechanic, I say that mechanics like that are called "balance issues", and should be patched. Their only advantage is that they are so dumb most people cba to use them. Problems start when you have neighbors using them 24/7.
In that case you need to learn who is who, before you will start to get decent, fair matches again. And we're back to what I was saying in my previous post: links are a pile of **** you need to shovel. Daily. They do not add to fun, they do not help to balance the game in their current state. It's just a thing you need to work around in order to totally ignore it. It's just not justified to keep them unchanged.
All that for what? PVP being easier on you? Linked frigates can solo destroyers. I hear about linked comet tanking and killing a hawk.
Fighting linked ship comes down to being linked yourself. Again - you need to put effort in order to ignore their influence.
Saying they are fine and should be worked around is like saying gold ammo is great, cause you can always use it yourself/avoid being attacked. Singature Radius 48 m |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1610
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:15:00 -
[247] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:
Also - how does making your pvp easier make the game more complex? It's just the opposite: you have boosts to mitigate your flaws. Links are the no-brainer solution. You don't need to care for fits, if you know the particular module will not make as much of a difference as your alt will.
Links put pvp on the same level as mining. Rocks can't shoot back too after all. Challenge is the same.
95% of BM's posts are trolling. He is a master of spinning chicken **** into chicken salad. The above summarizes a criticism I have for links. They completely break the paper, rock, scissors nature of EvE. Resist holes? The correct counter? I'm all for unorthodox fits that surprise the enemy but with links - it just really doesn't matter what the other guy has! Your AB brawler with crazy scram and web range will work just fine vs. that condor coming into your novice. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
855
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:47:00 -
[248] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:
Also - how does making your pvp easier make the game more complex? It's just the opposite: you have boosts to mitigate your flaws. Links are the no-brainer solution. You don't need to care for fits, if you know the particular module will not make as much of a difference as your alt will.
Links put pvp on the same level as mining. Rocks can't shoot back too after all. Challenge is the same.
95% of BM's posts are trolling. He is a master of spinning chicken **** into chicken salad. The above summarizes a criticism I have for links. They completely break the paper, rock, scissors nature of EvE. Resist holes? The correct counter? I'm all for unorthodox fits that surprise the enemy but with links - it just really doesn't matter what the other guy has! Your AB brawler with crazy scram and web range will work just fine vs. that condor coming into your novice.
Personally, i use links to take a relatively poor ship and turn it into a very viable and unexpected tackler/sometimes 'solo' killer. There are those that fly the best ships, with the strongest tanks and the highest implants. These are the kind of people i enjoy killing the most and i know a lot of people enjoy killing me. I dont know what all the complaining is about.
I have no problem with links on killboards, or links inheriting aggression. Everyone knows i fly with links anyway, nor do i make any attempt to hide it. Bringing links on grid would remove links from FW entirely, which some would say is a good thing, i would strongly disagree, obviously.
If people spent half as much time learning how to probe rather than worrying about links i imagine they would be a lot happier. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1612
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:52:00 -
[249] - Quote
Yeah we got it. The counters to links are:
Your own links. Bring a blob. Probe out the links. Have others distract with a fight. (Bring a blob v.2) E-War.
Edit: Link aggression timer, again, would satisfy me. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:03:00 -
[250] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Yeah we got it. The counters to links are:
Your own links. Bring a blob. Probe out the links. Have others distract with a fight. (Bring a blob v.2) E-War.
Edit: Link aggression timer, again, would satisfy me.
as well we can get rid of all kind of ships and mods and just leave noob ships with basic fittings.
then we can all be happy. |
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1612
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 15:03:00 -
[251] - Quote
Proving my earlier point....
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
95% of BM's posts are trolling. He is a master of spinning chicken **** into chicken salad.
|
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
339
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 16:18:00 -
[252] - Quote
I have no problem with the current incarnation of links, and I concur with the current counters - blob, bring your own, or don't take the fight.
If CCP brings links ongrid, then CCP needs to scale appropriately. Currently logi and EWAR scale (i.e. T1 frig logi, t1 cruiser logi, T2 logi), so command links would need to be designed similiarly.
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:03:00 -
[253] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Proving my earlier point.... Zarnak Wulf wrote:
95% of BM's posts are trolling. He is a master of spinning chicken **** into chicken salad.
lies , all lies |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:14:00 -
[254] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Make them obvious and they will die off, because retards will have no one to fight. . Maybe you are just in wrong game. Best thing in EVE is complexity and fact that nothing is so simple than it 1st seem to be. Let's redesign newbie forums then. When someone asks for guidelines tell him: "first of all start a 2nd account, browse market till you find strategic cruisers and check the requirements. Then work your skill plan around that. When it comes to your main account - oh, just think what will be fun to get into, and remember: people had success in pvp from day 0. All it takes is good attitude". Complex I can understand, but links are a stealthy way to make pvp fight unwinnable to the other side. Call it a mechanic, I say that mechanics like that are called "balance issues", and should be patched. Their only advantage is that they are so dumb most people cba to use them. Problems start when you have neighbors using them 24/7. In that case you need to learn who is who, before you will start to get decent, fair matches again. And we're back to what I was saying in my previous post: links are a pile of **** you need to shovel. Daily. They do not add to fun, they do not help to balance the game in their current state. It's just a thing you need to work around in order to totally ignore it. It's just not justified to keep them unchanged. All that for what? PVP being easier on you? Linked frigates can solo destroyers. I heard about linked comet tanking and killing a hawk. Fighting linked ship comes down to being linked yourself. Again - you need to put effort in order to ignore their influence. Saying they are fine and should be worked around is like saying gold ammo is great, cause you can always use it yourself/avoid being attacked. edit: Also - how does making your pvp easier make the game more complex? It's just the opposite: you have boosts to mitigate your flaws. Links are the no-brainer solution. You don't need to care for fits, if you know the particular module will not make as much of a difference as your alt will. Links put pvp on the same level as mining. Rocks can't shoot back too after all. Challenge is the same.
who says newcomer have to have his own links, there is lot of players and corporations who provide links if needed.
As i have said several times, EVE is not solo game, get friends.
I do use decent fits that works with link or without links as well.
Some fits are special fits that work only with links and with fleet that support your fit, there is nothing wrong on that, But take those ship out of their planned use and it will die easily, EVE is about knowing when to engage and how, example current 0.0 is so big blob fest that if you want to engage those big fleets with your small fleet you have to know how to split them and get some of them killed.
EVE is about timing and links does not change that fact anyhow.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2123
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:29:00 -
[255] - Quote
Linked derp atron fleet is best fleet. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
142
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:40:00 -
[256] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Linked derp atron fleet is best fleet. SHHHHHH!!!! YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO GIVE AWAY OUR SEKRIT WEAPON!!!!!
Damnit. Now every fleet we tear apart with our mighty Derptron will simply whine that we're linked out the wazoo. |
Balshem Rozenzweig
Akademia Milicyjna The North is Coming
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:49:00 -
[257] - Quote
You might consider links to be fun, but do not impute that there are what the game is about.
certain victory + lasorz = mining
So quit subbing that second account and go high sec roid belts to be honest about yourself.
Singature Radius 48 m |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
871
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:01:00 -
[258] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:You might consider links to be fun, but do not impute that there are what the game is about.
certain victory + lasorz = mining
So quit subbing that second account and go high sec roid belts to be honest about yourself.
I use boosts and lose a lot of ships.
But then i will have a go at almost anything. |
Lilith Velkor
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:48:00 -
[259] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote: Truth about link is that those makes small fleets able to engage bigger blobs easier so link actually support small gang pvp not prevent those.
No, a larger force is more likely to actually have links, and the smaller force (if it has links) is at a distinct disadvantage deploying them. You pointed out why yourself earlier in this thread.
Having them only active on grid would be a boost to small gangs against larger forces, again you pointed out why yourself earlier. |
Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:47:00 -
[260] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:I have no problem with the current incarnation of links, and I concur with the current counters - blob, bring your own, or don't take the fight.
Allow me to elaborate.
The current counters, blob (bring enough people that mechanics/ships and how balanced they are is irrelevant), bring your own (counter to x being x = good balancing) or don't take the fight (balance is actually so bad pvp is discouraged.)
Sounds reasonable to me.
13 pages?
Also sounds reasonable for a perfectly balanced part of the game.
lol. |
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
871
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:50:00 -
[261] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote: 13 pages?
Also sounds reasonable for a perfectly balanced part of the game.
lol.
I doubt theres any more than 13 posters in the entire thread. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
199
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:52:00 -
[262] - Quote
I'd like to come at this from another direction. We've heard a lot of reasons why it's "OK" to have them of grid. I'd like to compile a list of why they "need" to be off grid.
Reasons boosting ships NEED to be off grid:
(I'm asking, so please - make me a list) |
Vera El
Hoplite Brigade White-Lotus
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:45:00 -
[263] - Quote
I think they should be forced to be on grid to boost to make them be at risk also. With the FW plex size limiting ships that can enter I would like to see a boosting ship that can enter the smaller plexes. For an example a Tier 2 dessie hull that can provide 1 or 2 boosts while still having some combat ability. Same for the cruiser class also. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1619
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:50:00 -
[264] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Yuri Antollare wrote: 13 pages?
Also sounds reasonable for a perfectly balanced part of the game.
lol.
I doubt theres any more than 13 posters in the entire thread.
63 |
Courtney Gutierrez
Spiritus-Holdings Sicarius Draconis
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:13:00 -
[265] - Quote
Vera El wrote:I think they should be forced to be on grid to boost to make them be at risk also. With the FW plex size limiting ships that can enter I would like to see a boosting ship that can enter the smaller plexes. For an example a Tier 2 dessie hull that can provide 1 or 2 boosts while still having some combat ability. Same for the cruiser class also.
This is such a ******** idea in any engagment it will be blapped off field first and therefore never used it would be just a waste of ccps time really |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1066
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:51:00 -
[266] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I'd like to come at this from another direction. We've heard a lot of reasons why it's "OK" to have them of grid. I'd like to compile a list of why they "need" to be off grid.
Reasons boosting ships NEED to be off grid:
(I'm asking, so please - make me a list)
Easy. Here are a few of the basic ones I have seen/heard and said myself before.
Reason 1: Because CCP want an extra $15 a month from people. If they go ongrid - CCP will take a huge financial hit and people will spend that $15 a month on new Steam games instead of Eve.
Reason 2: Station games are all that Eve will be as it is the only play style that will suit ongrid boosting.
Reason 3: The people who are complaining about boosts will just move on to something else and say it is 'unfair' instead of adapting and competing. That is the nature of the whinger. They blame everyone else or 'the system' for their own failures and expect everyone else to change to make up for their shortcomings. Some misguided fools even think an MMO should be 'solo' when and if they choose.
Reason 4: Some people might even feel that CCP has ripped them off and unsub all accounts. They will see there is no point training anything long term or investing their play time in Eve as CCP could render it useless and all their toons unsaleable in the future.
Reason 5: The single account 'solo' dreamer is not as valuable a customer as someone with multiple accounts who gives CCP more $$ each month.
I am sure others can come up with more reasons.
Docked since 2009. |
Damen Apol
Dayman Industries
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:19:00 -
[267] - Quote
Reason 6. Links become a "blob only" ship, and kill off any utility they had for small-gang PvPers by being on-grid. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
199
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:51:00 -
[268] - Quote
OK, I've boiled all that down to "I'm afraid to lose my ship"
Any different reasons? |
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
474
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:06:00 -
[269] - Quote
Because the volume of tears generated by the continued existence of off-grid boosters is more than the amount of tears generated by the prospect of making them on-grid only. This is why we should keep the status quo.
The endless weepy threads on the subject still make a refreshing change to AFK cloaker whinethreads. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
871
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:14:00 -
[270] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:OK, I've boiled all that down to "I'm afraid to lose my ship"
Any different reasons?
Non that you wont oversimplify and misrepresent, clearly.
Perhaps if all i did was camp gates and high sec ganks i would feel the same as you, who knows? |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
199
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:33:00 -
[271] - Quote
Machiavelli's reason has merit. That is probably the one valid eve reason for off grid boosts.
|
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1068
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 14:49:00 -
[272] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:OK, I've boiled all that down to "I'm afraid to lose my ship"
Any different reasons?
And this kids is why you should say no to drugs and frontal lobotomys.
Docked since 2009. |
Zeetchmen
Nanashi no Geemu
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 01:36:00 -
[273] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK, I've boiled all that down to "I'm afraid to lose my ship"
Any different reasons? And this kids is why you should say no to drugs and frontal lobotomys.
She is right though. When it boils down to no links, no engaed its due to wanting broken mechanics to give you saftey. The flipside being they have off grind t3 booster alts lets not bother.
Off grid-links are toxic to engagements both ways. Although I do agree that I doubt CCP will do anything about it due to people paying for said edge |
Damen Apol
Dayman Industries
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 02:11:00 -
[274] - Quote
Zeetchmen wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:OK, I've boiled all that down to "I'm afraid to lose my ship"
Any different reasons? And this kids is why you should say no to drugs and frontal lobotomys. She is right though. When it boils down to no links, no engaed its due to wanting broken mechanics to give you saftey. The flipside being they have off grind t3 booster alts lets not bother. Off grid-links are toxic to engagements both ways. Although I do agree that I doubt CCP will do anything about it due to people paying for said edge
Joy, let us put them on grid so that blobs have unique access to them. Why should anyone who flies with less than 20 people have a chance anyway right?
I'd be fine with totally removing links, but putting them on-grid is only going to benefit the blob. |
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:22:00 -
[275] - Quote
My opinion:
When links used by a small gang to wreck a blob = good.
When links used by solo pilots because they suck = bad. |
Damen Apol
Dayman Industries
30
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:25:00 -
[276] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:My opinion:
When links used by a small gang to wreck a blob = good.
When links used by solo pilots because they suck = bad.
It is a good and a bad thing. But mostly a bad thing.
Links don't turn a bad pilot into a good pilot I assure you. The solo pilots that suck still suck. Is it bad that they use links as a crutch? Yea, but you can still kill them because, again, they suck anyway. |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
933
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:21:00 -
[277] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:Diesel47 wrote:My opinion:
When links used by a small gang to wreck a blob = good.
When links used by solo pilots because they suck = bad.
It is a good and a bad thing. But mostly a bad thing. Links don't turn a bad pilot into a good pilot I assure you. The solo pilots that suck still suck. Is it bad that they use links as a crutch? Yea, but you can still kill them because, again, they suck anyway.
Not quite untrue.
When the links provide such a huge mechanical bonus the pilot doesn't have to be 'good' to completely stomp a decent pilot is a supposedly 1v1.
The main reason links will probably never be on grid is money pure and simple. CCP don't want to the revenue generated by the accounts for link alt.
Lets face it the argument about brink links on grid will only work for blobs. Well that won't actually change a great deal of activity associated with blobs now. All it will stop is the odd good pvp'er harassing the blobs and killing off stragglers.
The station games argument. Nothing will change as most people who play station games have OGB pretty much all the time anyway.
Lets face it if boosts came ongrid very little would change in the grand scheme of combat apart from having another high value target on the field. The tactics would slightly alter but in general not much else would.
OGB's are purely a money making exercise that a few people on either side of the arguments use to polish and wave their own epeens around. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
933
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:27:00 -
[278] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:I'd like to come at this from another direction. We've heard a lot of reasons why it's "OK" to have them of grid. I'd like to compile a list of why they "need" to be off grid.
Reasons boosting ships NEED to be off grid:
(I'm asking, so please - make me a list) Easy. Here are a few of the basic ones I have seen/heard and said myself before. Reason 1: Because CCP want an extra $15 a month from people. If they go ongrid - CCP will take a huge financial hit and people will spend that $15 a month on new Steam games instead of Eve. Reason 2: Station games are all that Eve will be as it is the only play style that will suit ongrid boosting. Reason 3: The people who are complaining about boosts will just move on to something else and say it is 'unfair' instead of adapting and competing. That is the nature of the whinger. They blame everyone else or 'the system' for their own failures and expect everyone else to change to make up for their shortcomings. Some misguided fools even think an MMO should be 'solo' when and if they choose. Reason 4: Some people might even feel that CCP has ripped them off and unsub all accounts. They will see there is no point training anything long term or investing their play time in Eve as CCP could render it useless and all their toons unsaleable in the future. Reason 5: The single account 'solo' dreamer is not as valuable a customer as someone with multiple accounts who gives CCP more $$ each month. I am sure others can come up with more reasons.
Reason 1, 4 and 5 are the only reason boosts will stay off grid. Unless CCP decide to take the commercial risk (they won't)
Reason 2 and 3 are general things that happen all over eve since day 1 and will probably continue till eve shuts down. These have nothing to do with OGB per say.
OGB's are a fantastic commercial idea that CCP has taken full advantage off. They know this and any nerfs to them would probably just be substituted with something else that would get peoples backs up.
Serendipity - it has nothing whatsoever to do with losing ships. Expensive shite gets lost all the time. The risk averse among the playerbase will always want to protect their investment. it is purely a commercial activity by CCP and all the whining about it won't change that. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
202
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 15:29:00 -
[279] - Quote
I would prefer on grid, but would settle for an agression timer.
Is there anything wrong with getting an agro timer for aiding in combat? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
202
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 15:34:00 -
[280] - Quote
You can say it has nothing to do with losing ships and I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong. |
|
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
941
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 20:29:00 -
[281] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:You can say it has nothing to do with losing ships and I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
Nah,
Cost of losing ships has never been a prohibiting factor in eve apart from the very early months/year maybe. If it was then there wouldn't be the proliferation of supers etc that CCP have expressed some concerns about (don't ask me for links as I can't be bothered to find them, but remember something mentioned like that.)
There will always be a minority of people who whine and complain whenever they lose any ship. This will never change as the risk averse are quite a big group.
For me personally I don't think they will ever be moved on grid, even though I'd like them to be, but I would like them added to killmails though. This would stop a few (very few) elite pvp'ers who claim to be solo bragging about their purposed successes when they kill a T1 frig in a boosted/linked T1 frig for example and also give me some feedback when I get stomped in a 1v1 that should have been even or in my favour. It lets me know if I did something wrong, picked bad tactics, or it the other guy was actually boosted to high heaven in which I wouldn't have stood a chance anyways. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Damen Apol
Dayman Industries
30
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:01:00 -
[282] - Quote
Would you also like to see the implants and boosters that the pilot had consumed on killmails? Because running Snake implants with some Quafe and Zor's link is going to give you similar results to receiving OGBs |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1636
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:22:00 -
[283] - Quote
Just Walk Away |
Taoist Dragon
Sh1t Happens. And then you die.
942
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:25:00 -
[284] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:Would you also like to see the implants and boosters that the pilot had consumed on killmails? Because running Snake implants with some Quafe and Zor's link is going to give you similar results to receiving OGBs
I'm on the fence with these tbh. At least they are being put on the field and risked in combat to provide those boosts. But a well skilled/equipped booster provides boosts similar to multiple full sets of implants (Speed, tank and ewar/tackle etc)
Yes I'd like to see any and all effects on the combat abilities posted in the KM but that is mainly from a AAR analysis point of view. And if I were looking at the rating systems of some KM sites (BC and Z-killboard) then yes I'd like all combat effects added because then you could factor these in your point rating for each kill.
2 T2 fitted T1 frigs in a 1v1 for example with both pilots using clean clones and no OGB would have a point rating of say 10 for the victor.
If the winning pilot used combat enhancing implants then the points would say be 8
If the winning pilot was the one without implants then the points value would say be 12.
And so on and so forth with the points being modified based on how many enhancements the winner had v the loser as well as the number of players on the km v the relative ship classes.
But like I say that is from a self performance analysis point of view. The main reason I'd like to see OGB's on KM is mainly to **** off those 'elite' 1v1'ers who are often multiple link boosted that brag about killing a comparable ship while boosted to the max. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1271
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 16:51:00 -
[285] - Quote
It is not surprising to see who is arguing so strenuously to keep this obviously bad mechanic.
But I'm curious how prevalent the links are now. They were definitely on the increase when I took a break 8/13. Did did requiring them to at least be outside a pos impact things for the better and has it stayed better?
Are there more or fewer off grid links being used in fw low sec now as compared to August of 2013?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
882
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:00:00 -
[286] - Quote
Cearain wrote:It is not surprising to see who is arguing so strenuously to keep this obviously bad mechanic.
But I'm curious how prevalent the links are now. They were definitely on the increase when I took a break 8/13. Did did requiring them to at least be outside a pos impact things for the better and has it stayed better?
Are there more or fewer off grid links being used in fw low sec now as compared to August of 2013?
I know of about 10 link alts owned by gallente pilots. This is obviously at epidemic levels. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
322
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 17:14:00 -
[287] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Cearain wrote:It is not surprising to see who is arguing so strenuously to keep this obviously bad mechanic.
But I'm curious how prevalent the links are now. They were definitely on the increase when I took a break 8/13. Did did requiring them to at least be outside a pos impact things for the better and has it stayed better?
Are there more or fewer off grid links being used in fw low sec now as compared to August of 2013?
I know of about 10 link alts owned by gallente pilots. This is obviously at epidemic levels. cool story. i no about 50 link alts owned by minmatar pilots and you can find them all in huola or kourm. this is epidemic |
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
345
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:00:00 -
[288] - Quote
oooooohhh goodie erryone loves a good necro
Gal / Cal space in fw there not as bad as Minnie / Amarr warzone all sides use them in fleet fights tho even if some claim they dont. solo not alot of people use them imo pirates more than fw pilots GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1271
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:06:00 -
[289] - Quote
It was an honest question to anyone who has been playing at least that long.
Do off grid link alts effect an larger or smaller percent of battles compared to August 2013? I know it will be anecdotal but is there any sense that there are fewer due to them not being in poses?
Flyinghotpocket I take it you think there are more of them - at least you think the minmatar are more likely to be boosted. I don't think people can really gauge their own militia or corp because you typically don't fight them.
What about pirates/fw neutrals are they more likely to have off grid links than they were in August 2013? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
345
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:10:00 -
[290] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
What about pirates/fw neutrals are they more likely to have off grid links than they were in August 2013?
i dont think there as bad as it was like i said above yeas pirates are still running around at the same rate but i think in our warzone its dropped obv home systems are full of boosts like command ships hugging stations and that but thats to be expected.#
Thing is this whole thread started as a troll by smookie GÖÑ HIGH FIVES GÖÑ-á |
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Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1667
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:19:00 -
[291] - Quote
Marco |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1271
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:29:00 -
[292] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Cearain wrote:
What about pirates/fw neutrals are they more likely to have off grid links than they were in August 2013?
i dont think there as bad as it was like i said above yeas pirates are still running around at the same rate but i think in our warzone its dropped obv home systems are full of boosts like command ships hugging stations and that but thats to be expected.# Thing is this whole thread started as a troll by smookie
Yeah I know op was trolling with the whole crybaby picture showing how he imagines his pvp victims. That never gets old, does it?
It was either start yet another thread about ogb or just post my question here.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1272
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 16:31:00 -
[293] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Lilith Velkor wrote:Aivo Dresden wrote:Not quite sure why people say 'T3s need to be rebalanced if they are required to boost on grid'. You can already tank them up quite effectively. If you want to do better, get a command ship. T3s shouldn't outperform CS really. I dont get that either, as it stands you'll get acceptable tank, cloaky warp, bubble immunity and workable dps, all while running a warfare link. Now name a command ship that does that, and we can talk about t3 needing a buff in that regard. About all the "probe it down, alpha on station etc" suggestions, you have to realize the actual problem is not large-scale pvp, links are absolutely fine there. The problem is with small-scale and solo pvp, where they tend to upset a very fragile balance, mostly when we are talking frigate size hulls. The whole "alpha on station" deal is gonna be a problem in frigate hulls, as is the "decloak and kill on gate" if you dont have the luxury of a decent size gang. Besides, and please excuse my ignorance regarding hisec mechanics, I believe concord will not really like you attacking a booster ship that didnt commit a crime. EVE is not solo game, get some friends, and you you can suicide gank booster ships in highsec, they do gank even miners so why not booster ships. Always grinds my gears when people say this.. Eve is a solo game, just like it is a small gang & large scale PvP game. It's sandbox remember? The problem is off-grid links NOT ONLY has such a large impact on Solo PvP, but ALSO small gang PvP. I have no doubt in my mind off-grid boosts will eventually get nerfed, giving such a large advantage whilst being so risk adverse simply doesn't make sense. Think about it, if they were willing to nerf ECM not long ago (falcon alts), it's inevitable off-grid boosts will be as well. I think I speak for many when I say I'd rather deal with a Falcon on grid then an off-grid booster. People say highsec carebears are bad.... Some of you proclaimed "PvP'ers" need to start putting your balls on the field and man up. EvE Literraly stands for Everyone vs Everyone. There is little basis to support focussed 1v1 balancing. Balance has been and always should be based on individual roles, not flying alone....
I am not sure if that is what EVE stands for. But if it is, I find it mildly humorous that your take away from "everyone versus everyone" is essentially "eve is a team game."
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Repeat 0ffenders
884
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 17:02:00 -
[294] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I am not sure if that is what EVE stands for. But if it is, I find it mildly humorous that your take away from "everyone versus everyone" is essentially "eve is a team game.
Everything in the game is set up to support teams. Though as usual you will selectively ignore everything that doest support whatever stupid post you are making at the time. Bravo. |
Dorian Tormak
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
120
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:13:00 -
[295] - Quote
They aren't too much they are just kind of stupid in my opinion but hey they add more to the game and make it that much more complex I guess so why not. Dorian Trollmak 9 - 0 in craps given. **** Miley Cyrus |
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