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Xanthia Di'Makir
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:27:00 -
[1]
The following image is two side by side screen caps of the Eve universe map.
The one on the left is colored by count of average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes. The one on the right is colored by Security level.
Image here.
What does everyone here think?
Is there a problem?
I'd hazard a guess that something north of 80% of people online when I took these are crowded in something less than 20% of systems in the game. What is it that makes those other 80% so damnably unattractive?
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JForce
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:33:00 -
[2]
The risk of losing things. It takes a long time for a noob to acquire things, and then to lose it in a few seconds can be devastating. JForce The Arrow Project N.W.A Reprezent
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Xanthia Di'Makir The following image is two side by side screen caps of the Eve universe map.
The one on the left is colored by count of average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes. The one on the right is colored by Security level.
Image here.
What does everyone here think?
Is there a problem?
I'd hazard a guess that something north of 80% of people online when I took these are crowded in something less than 20% of systems in the game. What is it that makes those other 80% so damnably unattractive?
For one thing, of 0.0 many systems are nigh useless. Few belts, few moons, bad ore... basically just exist to make the distances between "good systems" longer. You're not going to see blobs in these systems because theres no reason to be there, so you won't see blobs there. There may very well be traffic though. (other than perhaps some tactical significance, there was a battle in UAYL I was in over the weekend, there was no tactical significance of the system, its just where the fleets converged)
That said of course, theres lots more room for people out in 0.0... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Mitsumi Takahashi
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:36:00 -
[4]
Isn't this "normal", that most people are in "civilized" systems, rather than on the frontier? I think it looks a lot like Europe vs. the New World a few centuries ago...
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:46:00 -
[5]
If you're expecting homogenity across the entire map, then by your view yes it would be broken - however, you're forgetting something crucial. Like any real estate agent can tell you, what is important in a place is location, location, location - the core is safe, and is at the center of the galaxy which makes it a trade hub - its is a city, full of people and their goods and services.
In contrast, while the resources on the frontier are much better than the interior, it is difficult to exploit them out there due to aggressive alliances and lack of stations, not to mention high-level rats. Over time we might see a gradual spiderweb expanding outwards from the core, but it'll take time and more players.
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:49:00 -
[6]
It's not broken, People can go to 0.0 anytime they want to,
They just don't want to.
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Prydeless
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:50:00 -
[7]
Because the noobs are scared of people like me
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.04.11 03:53:00 -
[8]
Inertia is a powerful thing. ____________________________________________________________________
Open skies policies are signs of strength and courage, not weakness. |
crom ralphfao
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Posted - 2006.04.11 04:09:00 -
[9]
most noobs who venture out are snared and skinned. all the alliances should host an "open house" and invite people into their space for some tea and crumpits.
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Mike Moss
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Posted - 2006.04.11 05:04:00 -
[10]
Being a noob myself, and thinking of WoW as a parallel example, it does not look particularly abnormal when you consider the time it takes to acquire the skills and the ship, and the time and effort necessary to venture into 0.0.
I think you would see something similar if you could do a population scan of WoW and look at the low player populations on maps where you really need to be level 55+ to survive.
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Darwinia
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Posted - 2006.04.11 05:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mike Moss Being a noob myself, and thinking of WoW as a parallel example, it does not look particularly abnormal when you consider the time it takes to acquire the skills and the ship, and the time and effort necessary to venture into 0.0.
I think you would see something similar if you could do a population scan of WoW and look at the low player populations on maps where you really need to be level 55+ to survive.
Well you don't need to be 'level 55' to survive in 0.0, but you do need friends and know how. The problem is most people don't want to risk their shiny trinkets and choose to stay in empire, where it is relatively safe.
Even in 0.0 you have a few hub systems, where players converge, while systems 1 or 2 jumps away won't see a singe ship from DT to DT. ------------------------ I don't believe in sigs. |
Kylania
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Posted - 2006.04.11 05:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Darwinia Well you don't need to be 'level 55' to survive in 0.0, but you do need friends and know how.
How is a true newbie gonna make those friends? All of 0.0 space is claimed in some way, and for an NPC corp newbie there's no way you're getting into a controlling corp because you're instantly called an alt spy.
I think the idea about open house would be good. Than again, I'm just hungry and sleepy. -- Lil Miner |
Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.04.11 05:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kylania
How is a true newbie gonna make those friends?
Check out some recruiting posts. Find a few that interest you and notice if they have a public channel to hang around. Join a channel and see if there are people there that you'd like to be friends with.
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Archangel Deck
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Posted - 2006.04.11 06:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Archangel Deck on 11/04/2006 06:28:19 Like it was said most systems in 0.0 are total crap, in order for a system to be desired most of the time it needs more than 12 belts, have the best ore, and have a true sec rating of -0.7 at lest. Even if a system has those requirments u have to take into account how far it is from the nearest station, if it has a POS in system, how many ppl are usualy in local and what are they doing. Many ppl make isk by npcing, 1 person will use the whole system for npcing and most of the time doesnt want others hunting in system if he has been chaining/farming it. When there are lots of miners in a system it attracts hostiles who come looking for an easy gank
The regions with the guristas have it even worst, because of the npc jamming. People who used to solo mine in a tanking ship now have to look extra hard to find a spawn that wont jam them and that they can tank, the complexes are a pain because u will have up 30 bs jamming u almost non stop, also there is a larger risk factor when fighting the guristas that a hostile will enter system while u are jammed and warp scrambled by the npcs making u completly defenseless
Controling a region also takes alot of work and can be very stressful, POS's can take alot of time, engergy and isk to maintain. The is no real defenders advange in this game, a POS has guns but stations and stargates don't, any invading fleet just needs to swarm the system and control the station docking point at which point the station is pretty much more of a disadvange than an advange, because anyone undocking will have to get clear of the bubbles set-up, the hostiles will all be at their opti range able to warp out while the undocking force has only once choice once it has fired at the invaders and that is to get clear of the bubble or die.
CCP has plans to help with the expansion into 0.0 such as:
Upgradeable Outposts The current Outposts are just the beginning to world domination. They should be upgradeable, both internally (services etc.) and externally (defenses). Twinned Jumpdrive Structure - Starbases A structure, which allows you to twin together jumpdrive structures from Starbases. Constellation Sovereignty The next step in world domination. Often used as the example of required investment of an alliance to justify advanced territory features such as gate control and solar system defenses.
Those will help expland the 0.0 population but they are still a long ways off _____________________________
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.04.11 08:01:00 -
[15]
Yes it's broken, let's all play WoW. __________________ Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk mods - pwning sigs since 1943 |
Hiro Kazamatsuri
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Posted - 2006.04.11 08:15:00 -
[16]
Wow ! more pilots in civilized, secured space than in brutal and lawless space. That's strange ...
Why there is more people in Manhattan than in Sahara ?
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2006.04.11 08:58:00 -
[17]
0.0 people go to high sec space to shop
Enemies of 0.0 people declare war on 0.0 people to get them when they go shopping
0.0 people go to high sec space to kill the war deccers _____________________________________ meep meep This sig will self-destruct. |
Ginger Magician
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:13:00 -
[18]
The reason I think is that the difference between 0.0 and even low security empire is too great. The massive increase in sentry gun damage and range in low empire space have made it much like 0.5 and above and the rewards like level 4 missions are too great to warrant the comparitively huge risk of venturing into 0.0 space. Something for CCP to think about if they ever want to get a mass exodus to 0.0 space.
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Oro Masut
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Oro Masut on 11/04/2006 09:18:20 I guess it depends on the point of view. From a customer point of view it would be much more appealing if npcing / mission-running could be done in 80% of the systems, rather than 20%, w/o having to deal with ganks. From the evolutionary point of view, the spreading of the population ist perfectly normal. I think someone earlier compared it to early 18/19th century europe and border-lands / new world. Which basically covers everything one might say to this.
Personally i don't care. Currently i am carebaring in highsec and doing Lv 4 missions solo. My playtime is very limited, so i don't really feel like dealing with a gank and myself having to invest another 4h to refit a new ship. Aside from the time factor, the payout minus the ships blown up by gankers, minus the time it takes to bring the decent loot to a good selling ground just doesn't cut it.
Once i am done with most stuff in highsec,i will just move on to another game.
WCS gimps your fighting abilty. Make your choice BEFORE you undock. Do not complain about a lost ship ever, if you fit for running and go fighting with it |
Mort Sinious
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:19:00 -
[20]
I dont think it's broken and I certainly dont want anything changed, But you can see that people are favoing high-sec systems. It might be that the concept of 0.0 space is not appealing that much to the players as ccp initialy thought.
So, no real problem but the need for moe high-sec systems seems obvious.
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CB Cyrix
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:21:00 -
[21]
The problem is almost all 0.0 is 'claimed'.
So being empire based is really the only way they can make money.
Missions running / complex / cosmos / mining, theres alot to do, but in 0.0 you are very limited because you have to constantly watch local, and be aware that if you need to shop you have to go along way to do it.
So risk vs reward for a noob:
0.0: not knowing where to go, no having access to any stations, being creamed by alliances and player rats.
Empire: (0.5+), Safe, access to all stations, being able to go out solo and not be killed in a few mins. Everything you need is only a few jumps away.
Another thing is you cant just venture out to 0.0 to have a look as a noob without getting creamed.
If empire has all the above pro's then why would they want to go to 0.0, theres bugger all there to say "look big money, safty!".
When you spend weeks saving for your first cruiser you are not going to go somewhere where if hey are bord they can blow you up, just for the sake of it.
If there was a 0.0 that had turrents up defending the gates and a "warning" popup saying they are about to enter "inster alliance name here's space", then a noob would wanna join the alliance to gain access.
If you have ever seen Firefly (Serenity), then thats what it should be like, you should have somewhere in 0.0 you can atually go to, rather than just float around and then have to go to empire to dock. (if your not in an alliance)
Its weird how alliances dont invite noobs/neutrals out to their space and up the tax. This must bring in some money?
Then if they break the law they get a month ban from their space.
Simple.
If all these alliances want to create their own empires then allow neutrals to come over, and in the end they will end up joining the alliances anyway.
♥♥♥♥Give Zealot a Drone Bay♥♥♥♥ |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.11 09:25:00 -
[22]
it is simply so much easier to operate in empire. less chance of getting ganked, and stations everywhere you look.
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Dumus
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Posted - 2006.04.11 10:05:00 -
[23]
This is only my opinion, so if you that way inclined treat it with contempt
I have lived and worked in 0.0 many times and been in three alliances. I feel the problem is an age old one. Greed. The alliances I was a part of (apart from ISS, long story not relavant to this post) were simply too self centred and greedy. A short sightedness (dodgy spelling) that sometimes got me very frustrated. Sure I can make 80 mill an hour but then what? 0.0 Alliances need to to take a long hard look at what they do, to make them sustainable. They need to not see every single pod pilot as a threat to the resources in their control. I believe the PvP (by that I mean blowing up ships) side of this game is to far skewed. PvP is also about much, much more than that. Think of how much more powerfull an alliance would be if it opened up its borders and patrolled, looked after its citizens, would be. They would profit in many more ways than finantial. But of course they wonÆt. They will continue down the road they are on just so they can blow **** up. (FPS shooter anyone?) For me at least this side of the game holds some appeal but is NOT all I want to do. It gets old, way to fast (a bit like me ) I am now back in empire and have soloÆed for a few months, but have just met and made some great friends (mostly new peeps to the game) and have joined their corp. Were having a blast, ratting, mining and setting up the corps first POS. I have enough ISK to just outright buy the POS stuff for them but I aint gonna, cos the jouney would be so much less fun for them. So for a few weeks I am going to blow the cobwebs of the covetor and mine like a nutter. Long term who knows but I know I am having way more fun in empire atm thean I ever did in 0.0. Life in 0.0 needs to change and I believe the alliances controling it need to step back and look at a broader canvas. Life on the frontier could be so much more colourful than JUST cowboys and indians.
DumusÆs two pennys worth.
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Great game CCP keep up the good work and may the servers never be turned off! |
Ashelth
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Posted - 2006.04.11 10:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Scorpyn 0.0 people go to high sec space to shop
Enemies of 0.0 people declare war on 0.0 people to get them when they go shopping
0.0 people wake up and ask "who is XXXX?" then laugh at people who got ganked in emipre.
Hrrm let me edit that a bit.
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CB Cyrix
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Posted - 2006.04.11 10:40:00 -
[25]
Having one of eves mighty alliances open its borders would ROCK, so many neutrals mining hunting and bringing in goods etc.
Tax that lot and your rich!
Now if only there was an alliance with the balls to do it.... *looks at BoB*
♥♥♥♥Give Zealot a Drone Bay♥♥♥♥ |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2006.04.11 10:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ashelth
Originally by: Scorpyn 0.0 people go to high sec space to shop
Enemies of 0.0 people declare war on 0.0 people to get them when they go shopping
0.0 people wake up and ask "who is XXXX?" then laugh at people who got ganked in emipre.
Hrrm let me edit that a bit.
That's also true (Depends a bit etc though)
After being unable to go to 0.5 for a looooong time, I paid a visit to high sec space recently. I was very worried that I would shoot something by mistake and get ganked by concord (Actually I almost did shoot a neg standings guy that we weren't at war with, but someone in gang said not to shoot which saved my ass that time) _____________________________________ meep meep This sig will self-destruct. |
Bhaal
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Posted - 2006.04.11 10:46:00 -
[27]
No, it's not broken...
What you see is what's to be expected IMO.
I have 4 accounts to this game, most of my characters live & work in empire space. I think it's just so much easier for a time strapped EVE player to log on for 30 minutes or whatever time he/she has and get some enjoyment out of the game.
It's much more difficult to do that with a 0.0/PvP character IMO.
It may be more fun to log on in 0.0 and join a big fleet battle, or Freighter escort, or what have you. However, this is a much greater time investment, and this has to be planned. You're going to need 3-4 hours of EVE time to be able to accomplish this and not have to log of in enemy space out there... (something I refuse to do, I hate being stuck out there)
I like to explore both aspects of the game, empire and 0.0. For me, it's a RL time issue that will dictate which way I can play the game...
I think a large majority of EVE players are guys in their 30's who have a full time job, meaning they are casual/part time players.
Empire space is very friendly to casual players, 0.0 space is not.
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Dreamdancer
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Posted - 2006.04.11 12:31:00 -
[28]
I'm an industrialist. Building various sh...stuff. Thus getting to good ore in low sec would be great and save me tons, but the loss of my mining ship would total negate all profits. My ISK lvl at the moment is right on the edge and can't afford any losses. So it's better to over mine the lesser ores and sell them to buy the rarer ores.
PVP is all good, but too common. Almost 50% of my year plus EVE life has been in low sec and the risk does not equal the rewards. Especially when you are a part time player who doesn't have time to form up a 10 man group to go do things. I enjoy soloing mostly with occasional grouping. That's just my personal style of gaming. That forces me to stay high sec. From what I see it seems a lot of people prefer my method of playing as well. And forcing a play style on anyone sucks. Including forcing pvpers to pvp less. So not sure how to fix the situation. Though pvpers do force their play style on others so maybe time for some karma feedback.
But seriously, using the Europe/New World example talked about earlier. At first the new world was lawless but slowly the civilized zone spread. East coast of America in the 1600's even well into the 1700's you could kill someone and get away with it easily. But slowly that moved west as law and order was introduced. Now we know that the players themselves can/will never be able to develop empire space style of safety.
So empire space really should expand. Ever so slowly, but should expand. Maybe say the Min repub decides it wants to expand into Hagular system which is a 0.4 system. A Min Repub fleet moves into it and does some patrols. After X number of days without the patrols getting wiped the system sec goes from 0.4 to 0.5. But Concord does not move in yet. The response for jumping someone would be by Min fleet ships and would be defeatable. Of course your standing for doing such would negatively effect your standing with Minmatar, but improve your standing with Amarr. If enough Min fleet ships are destroyed within a certain time the system sec would return to 0.4. If the system stays safe long enough Concord moves in, but even then Concord could be driven out with a concerted effort. Forcing A Min Fleet response that as before could be defeated. Empires usually don't sit on their butts and ignor obvious areas of possible expansion.
What would the above gain? It would slowly move empire space out but organised pirates could still function in those systems and player alliances could move in and take those systems. The current core of empire space would remain as it is now, but the low sec systems would be changable. Sometimes more safe, sometimes less.
Anyway, just some early morning ramblings.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.04.11 12:34:00 -
[29]
High-sec is too profitable thanks to bulk mining and level 4 missions.
The cash to be made there is better long term when you factor in the occasional low-sec/0.0 ship loss, even for people who don't fear PvP.
Nerfing high-sec isn't really an option due to the reaction that would get, but low-sec/0.0 can be made more lucrative. Double mission rewards there for a start.
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.04.11 12:41:00 -
[30]
The one thing that's kepts me out of 0.0 is the simple fact that i can't get into an Alliance.
I'm not going to join a corp. I have one for me and my alts. I just want to join an alliance, and help them out.
But they look at my application, go "ohh.. only 3-4 members in that corp." and ignore it.
Others look at my age in game(2.5 months) and ignore me again.
I've just given up and figure one day I'll run into someone and it'll happen. :) till then, I'll play in low empire :)
demand is greater then supply = high price.
supply is greater then demand = low price.
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