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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 17:59:00 -
[1]
this is part about ships and mods, part about skills, but i think this part of the thred is where it belongs
there is a great ageing population in eve, the 35+mil skillpointers! Most of these people have maxed out their races now, what do we do now ccp? i dont want to cross train, i want to stay specilised in one race and only one race!
as an example: i have galante frig/crusier/BS lvl 5. i have small/med/large hybrids and blasters train to T2. i have maxed out support skills like cap/powergrid/range/ect. i can use HACs and have HAC 5, i can use recons and have recon 5 soon i will have command ships 5! where do i go now CCP
the point of this is to say, that within 12months we will have multispecilised plays and LOTS of them, most players will within a year have frigs/cruiser/bs to lvl 5 for at lest 2 races and the current 30mils+ players will probably have mini/galante/amar all maxed out! this will change how the game is played!
i dont know what should be done, but i know i dont want to see everyone in game able to use every race ship kittted with t2 and maxed out skills!
comments and options welcomed
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J'val Iktar
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:02:00 -
[2]
Dreadnaught 5? Carrier 5?
That should keep you busy for awhile.
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Valrandir
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:03:00 -
[3]
Now that you have mastered one race, you can - Master this race Capital Ships skill tree - Master another race - Train something else like Tech II Industry - Learn whole section of skills, get all Engineering skills to V, then go for all Electronics to V
New skills are added faster then we can learn them all at level V. I have myself over 40mil skill points and still have a lot to of planned skills to learn, not counting the new skills that will be added into Kali.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 12/04/2006 18:06:26 Do you have every support / drone / racial gun skill maxed? :o
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: J'val Iktar Dreadnaught 5? Carrier 5?
That should keep you busy for awhile.
why would one train carriers?
i get more damage out of a BS, and its a hell of a lot more versitile. carries are atm not worth it [iirc the +20% to drone dmg skill doesnt effect fighters thus a galante carrier with max skills gets atm 1500DPS a close range gank ship gets about 1200DPS]
also those with high SP usually have lots of PVP experience and are best placed in BS not at a SS in a carrier.
Dreds. they are very overrated! im not one to train for a ship thats only usefull for POS fighting, which i do ohhhhhhh once a blue moon? as a PVP ship, the capitals are gimped by having to use jump drives to move even to one system down! thus they are for the very large fleets only. and very large fleets are uncommon compiared to medium/small fights
and fyi i already got capital guns/reps skills train and advanced spaceship command 5 ect just incase one day capital ships are more versitile
so capital ships are imo out of the question, they are ment to be rare, they are pretty useless in anything but fights of over 50vs50.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:11:00 -
[6]
Edited by: HippoKing on 12/04/2006 18:13:47 i'm caldari specialised (actually i can fly gallente cruisers for my faction ship collection), and i have 18million SP. i think i could easily train another 20million SP without breaking caldari only if i wanted too.
edit: thats without hitting capitals
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:11:00 -
[7]
You could max out some industry skills (mining/production/hauling) __________________ Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk mods - pwning sigs since 1943 |
Valrandir
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:14:00 -
[8]
Gronsak CCP have intruduced capital ships in part to make something for the veteran players to aim for, both in ISK and skills.
If you choose not to train for them and decide that your current skills are enought, it is your choice. You may as well stop training completly and fly keep your "perfect mastered" skills as they are now.
Also don't you suppose that the Capital Ships will be tweaked, and that new capital ships will be added later on? I would start training toward now if I were you.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:17:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Spartan III on 12/04/2006 18:19:22 Train up leadership skills and command ships. Before or about the time you finnish training those skills, T2 battleships will come out in kali and you will have a new highly ranked skill to max.
[Edit] I bet you also havn't maxed advanced weapons upgrades. It will really help you fit stuff with that extra 2% when T2 BSs come out. --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:18:00 -
[10]
There are plenty of options - you just dont like them.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Valrandir Now that you have mastered one race, you can - Master this race Capital Ships skill tree - Master another race - Train something else like Tech II Industry - Learn whole section of skills, get all Engineering skills to V, then go for all Electronics to V
capital ships, yeh thats an option, but no thanks, specilly as so many people are doing it, my corp is ok with 15 dreds insted to 16with me in one. another race! thats the problem, dont you think it would be bad for eve if a large portion of its population can use all t2 guns and all t2 gun ships? traing stuff like t2 iundustry? why, what need do i have for it? already done, maxed out support skills!
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Do you have every support / drone / racial gun skill maxed? :o
currently i have maxed gunnry support skills, and maxed out hybrids. i have maxed out galante ships and also amar bs 5 and cruiser 5. basicly im galante specilised and half amar specilised. within 9months id have all 3 gun races maxed out. and i dont think its a good direction for eve that everyone can use every ship and gun with t2
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Thesper
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:24:00 -
[12]
Every MMORPG out there has a level/skills cap of some description. EVE is fortunate in that once you've maxed one tree you don't have to start a new character to try another.
I think it's good that there is a cap, so that if you have everything relevant trained to around level IV you're only going to be 5-10% behind guys with 30-40mil sp and their particular skill tree maxed. It also allows newer players to catch up and be able to perform roles almost as well as the old guard.
Personally I like versatility in the ships I fly, I've "only" got 20mil sp but I reguarly fly Gallente inties, Amarr cruisers, Caldari BS and...erm...Minmatar shuttles. If you add more specialisation skills (eg. Elite Advanced Large Hybrids or similar) then you force people into experiencing less of the options the game gives you if they want to stay PvP competative.
Basically what I'm thinking is yeah, more people will be able to fly more and more different ships at a high level of proficiency, but I don't reckon it's a bad thing. More options is good.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:26:00 -
[13]
Perrsonally I have approx 32 mil skill points. I have trained pretty much nothing but minmatar my entire eve career. Just looking through my skill book I have about 12 months worth of level 5s to go before i am 'maxed out' on most things.
Capital ships, especially carriers, are worth it - i have no idea where you get the idea a carrier does less damage than a bs, have you ever fought one? Those fighters are nasty... Plus carriers are relatively cheap.
I would be impressed if you have maxed out every single gunnery skill relevant to your character.
All the passive armor skills to 5? The shield ones? The new drones skills?
How about electronics and ew, give you that extra edge in pvp?
Cybernetics 5 is a good one too, takes a chunk.
And finally, if you have honestly maxed out everything relevant to your character (I doubt it, there's a guy with 55 mil sp and haven't seen him complain recently), there's always the fun of predicting what random level 5 skill is going to be needed for the next big ship. Personally I'm currently debating between squadron command 5 and command ships 5 for the upcoming 'flagships' (and desperately praying they don't need capital ships skills).
sgb
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J'val Iktar
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: J''val Iktar on 12/04/2006 18:28:14
Originally by: Gronsak
currently i have maxed gunnry support skills, and maxed out hybrids. i have maxed out galante ships and also amar bs 5 and cruiser 5. basicly im galante specilised and half amar specilised. within 9months id have all 3 gun races maxed out. and i dont think its a good direction for eve that everyone can use every ship and gun with t2
Quick calculation on my part (someone may want to check it over) shows 34m sp needed to completely max out the gunnery and spaceship command (not counting capital ships or industrials/freighters) trees for one race. That is lvl 5 is every skill including all both t2 gun variants and all t2 ships. So I doubt you have maxed out Gallente as you claim.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: J'val Iktar Edited by: J''val Iktar on 12/04/2006 18:28:14
Originally by: Gronsak
currently i have maxed gunnry support skills, and maxed out hybrids. i have maxed out galante ships and also amar bs 5 and cruiser 5. basicly im galante specilised and half amar specilised. within 9months id have all 3 gun races maxed out. and i dont think its a good direction for eve that everyone can use every ship and gun with t2
Quick calculation on my part (someone may want to check it over) shows 34m sp needed to completely max out the gunnery and spaceship command (not counting capital ships or industrials/freighters) trees for one race. That is lvl 5 is every skill including all both t2 gun variants and all t2 ships. So I doubt you have maxed out Gallente as you claim.
Maybe he had really nice implants at one time? --- Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Porro
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Posted - 2006.04.12 18:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Porro on 12/04/2006 18:43:47 Do the specilizations to 5? To me they're a waste of time at the moment as im going for some other things. But with nothing else to train, why not?
Or go for another race, ravens seem quite cool although I'd feel very dirty flying one ---------------------------------------------------- (22:01:14) (Sangxianc) you, porro, have madder skillzors than i, sang, do
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kessah
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Posted - 2006.04.12 19:20:00 -
[17]
specialisation is nice but super specialisaion imho is a complete waste. Im amarr\caldari myself but ive decided to train all small t2 and all medium t2 turrets and missles im also the same with frigs and cruiser all will be trained to 5.
This way no matter where i am in eve il be able to load up any frig\cruiser t1 or t2 and use it with a certain skill level.
Also with all that trained il be able to use all t2 cruiser and frigs and Battlecruisers. Being able to use a variety of ships and modules of all races make you more useful as a pirate specially a nomad that cant get into high sec
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Lumel
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Posted - 2006.04.12 19:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lumel on 12/04/2006 19:51:44
Originally by: Gronsak another race! thats the problem, dont you think it would be bad for eve if a large portion of its population can use all t2 guns and all t2 gun ships?
Quick answer: no.
Long answer: Didn't Oveur post numbers a while ago that showed that the large percentage of players have roughly 7 months worth of SP? I recall thinking that people with even 25Mil SP were pretty slim by comparison, so 35M would be even loftier air. So, ultimately I'm not sure what this "large portion is no longer racially specialized" hand wringing is about....
Of course, I really do know what it's about. You're actually saying "I don't see anything else I personally want to train for and I want CCP to supply more skills for me to train." That's fine, just wait and they'll undoubtedly supply you with just what you're looking for.
And, ultimately, what exactly is the problem with people able to fly more than one race's ships well? Isn't that exactly what things like the faction ships reward? You can't very well fly a Machariel with just Minmatar skills (since you won't even be able to board it).
Edit: spelling.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:04:00 -
[19]
"I don't know what to train!" "Train this, this or this, or choose one of the others" "I don't wanna!"
Halt training and train up a second character then. __________________ Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk mods - pwning sigs since 1943 |
Toy
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:09:00 -
[20]
Is this why we see so many 30mil point plus characters on the sell board?
Are people 'cashing out' then just restarting with the extra isk? |
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Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:13:00 -
[21]
lol, well i guess you've played the game to its end
i mean you hate capital ships you have maxed out everything even tho ppl with more sp have not
here's a solution just quit the game and leave it to us nooblars its not fun anyways cause we can all fly galanty/caldary/amarr/ and maybe min
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:14:00 -
[22]
this isnt about me its about the eve population.
i would say that seeing everyone skilled in every gun type to large t2 and every race ship t2 to BS would be a shame. would totally kill the i am galante or amarr or what ever. you would be just as great in mini/gal/amarr ships
my char is amarr but im galante specilised, i call myself galante becase of it, in a year that will change.
basicly im saying that being able to use each race weapons and having each race frig/crusier/bs 5 for a large portion of the eve population would make the game slighly worse
im not asking for anything to be done about it, it was just an observation i wanted to discouse to gain more info on the subject.
Note: to the guy that said 34mils sp to max one race guns and ships. [that is much less if u take it to specilation lvl 4] but the point is from then on. if its 34mils sp for one race, to specilise in the next race is only anoter 10? perhaps less!
and for those saying dreds/carriers are the bomb. a amarr dred can not hit a BS at 100km if the BS flys perpendicular to its line. [and its the dred with the best tracking! as for carriers the problem is that they cant use jump gates, but their damage output isnt that specal at all! its their tank thats uber
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:16:00 -
[23]
do you seriusly have all the t2 ship skills trained to 5, and all the hybrid gunnery/drones/mechanic/electronics/engineering/leadership skills maxed?
i am doubtfull somehow...
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Toy Is this why we see so many 30mil point plus characters on the sell board?
Are people 'cashing out' then just restarting with the extra isk?
no, the reason is, that the owners, in the past had 1 galante 1 caldari, 1 mini, 1 amarr char all specilised in their races!
now that their galante char can use hybrids but also t2 large lasers with amarr BS 5, what use is the amarr char? ect
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 12/04/2006 20:21:29 I think you can stay specailized for several more mil Sp. I'm over 30 mil and I have only trained a few skills off from minmatar ship/Combate. I do have gal BS to lvl 4 just so I can fly the Mach. Anyway as of now I have 10mil sp I plan to train within the next year that will assist me in Combate do bring me well over 40mil in SP. Not many of these SP are in gunnary or space ship command but will help me very much in combat.
So I think thier is something you can train if you don't want to go to capital ships other races or industy or science. I havn't.
Oh but than again I am Minmatar so mybe thats why I have so many more skills planed . I know you Ammar like it simple... Guns and a tank thats all you need
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Commander Thrawn lol, well i guess you've played the game to its end
i mean you hate capital ships you have maxed out everything even tho ppl with more sp have not
here's a solution just quit the game and leave it to us nooblars its not fun anyways cause we can all fly galanty/caldary/amarr/ and maybe min
there are 2 main types of people who post on forums
1: the people who do not read and flame, well becase 95% of threds end up that way so why not get in first! 2: those that read and answer only if the point needs making
you would be the non reading type
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jet Collins
Oh but than again I am Minmatar so mybe thats why I have so many more skills planed . I know you Ammar like it simple... Guns and a tank thats all you need
yep mini do need more SP to be specilised
imo all races need top drone skills all races need top gunnry skills mini and caldari on top of that require missiles, adding about 8mils SP to mini and caldari players.
and hippoking: i dont have everything maxed, specilations to lvl 4 mostly, i ddont have skills in mods i never use, for example target painters or remote shield reps ect! but i can use all 4 races heavy t2 drones, got all support gunnry on 5, got all specilation hybrids on lvl 4 or more. got maxed cap skills and armor and stuff like lock , range, scan res ect. on top of that i have amarr BS 5 , amarr crusier 5 ect so within 12months, i think id have all 3 gun races ships specilised. and was just thinking if it would be a bad thing for eve to have a large no of its plays able to use each ship in game to the max
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:32:00 -
[28]
well you can always take the other part and die...
And don't forget to transfer stuff to me... ok:P
On serious note... If you don't want to go for capital ships, then you have only 2 options, superspecialization or another race... Personally i'd go for another race, because decently fitted raven will still spank blasterthron, no matter if you have large hybrids lvl5 or <insert race> drone specialization lvl5.
However there are a few skills that i'd like to have, even if i trained some cap. ship skills. I'd like for instance, signal dispersion lvl5, energy emission system lvl5, all armor compensations at lvl5... oh and advanced wpn upgrades lvl5.
But i think you have too many chars and that is causing you some problems
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Hakera
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:36:00 -
[29]
perhaps a second tier specialisation subset, i know partially how you feel having almost peeked out split between minnie & caldari (still a fair few lvl 5's to do myself) and no interest in capital ships as I dont play enough to warrant aiming for one and its not my 'style of play' to sit in one. My suggestion would be:
adv racial frigate/cruiser/bs skills maybe a rank 8+ skill which gives a split bonus, say 1% extra grid/cpu, 2% shield/cap etc as a quick suggestion.
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Lumel
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Posted - 2006.04.12 20:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gronsak and was just thinking if it would be a bad thing for eve to have a large no of its plays able to use each ship in game to the max
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=310
between 0 and 1 million skillpoints: 358353 between 1 and 2 million skillpoints: 14035 between 2 and 3 million skillpoints: 8149 between 3 and 4 million skillpoints: 5826 between 4 and 5 million skillpoints: 4696 between 5 and 10 million skillpoints: 14859 between 10 and 15 million skillpoints: 9875 between 15 and 20 million skillpoints: 7861 between 20 and 25 million skillpoints: 6194 between 25 and 30 million skillpoints: 4373 between 30 and 35 million skillpoints: 2568 between 35 and 40 million skillpoints: 1313 between 40 and 45 million skillpoints: 257 between 45 and 50 million skillpoints: 4 between 50 and 55 million skillpoints: 7 between 55 and 60 million skillpoints: 1
Here's the link and the data as it was posted just after the cluster upgrade. One of the questions that Oveur himself posed was "do skill points really matter?"
Btw, this really seems like it's a Skills discussion rather than a Ships discussion, since the heart of the matter is the skills to use a race's ships, and not how many afterburners to put in an Obelisk's low slots.
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