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xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.02.18 13:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
TLDR ? skip to - POINT - Not sayin i'm a veteran player but i'm not that new either. I've seen my share of hisec missioning, fooling around, then nullsec lifestyle and a few weeks of wormhole engineering. Now i just recently put a pos up, got a some pi goin, some crappy but still moongoo, some labs for blueprint research etc. basically i got into industry. The manufacturing, researching inventing stuff and whatnot. Started out by manufacturing the reasonable amount of faction cruisers and battleships that i had bpc stockpiles of. but then i thought i should try making modules, ammo, pos fuel, rigs and heh of course boosters ( placed that on hold though for some obvious evaporating reasons )
I knew the way blueprints work what you can do with them and how you use them but for the love of GOD ALLMIGHTY i never thought it'd be such a damn pain finding all the R.A.M and r.db blueprints. yes sure i did eventually. thankfully intys help. 100+ system jumps just to get 20 or so blueprints.
POINT: So in the age of galactic travel - intergalactic may i say, we still have an idea on "paper" that we need to grab physically. -.- Blueprints are amusingly enough drawn with bits of 1 and 0 ingame to signify digital data. but they need to be bought lifghtyears away cause hey we got zillion teraflop computers and instantaneous communication between galaxies but somehow we still writing with pen on paper.
Now i can understand the sort of need for a "solid" commodity but this is absurd. Also the scripts. buy them as in what? firmware upgrades ? floppy drives with uber software on em ? why the need for a physical item ?
Also, i noticed one funny thing. we have a nightmare that is skyscrapers high and baffling in complexity (at least in a scifi context) being built in 2 hours. WOW THATS AWESOME - NOW THAT IS advanced tech. that is great man. And then we have a rig. one little thing. salvage tackle II for instance. it's 200 kg. that's roughly 0.0002. it takes 8 hours to build.
suggestion ? (do you even care?) well, the stations are all connected to that galactic news crap and the personal isk account is updated no matter where you are so why can't you contact x corp from z faction since they're producing y blueprint and pay for a damn download ? also same goes for scripts. and anything else that doesnt come to mind right now that is forcefully portrayed as a physical item. and this implies that you can access whatever damn assembly line you wish and get your stuff made as long as you have the physical items there in place.
[img]http://s20.postimg.org/qdrn2w4ft/index.jpg[/img] |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
200
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Posted - 2014.02.18 14:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would prefer to be able to acquire BPO's across the ether rather than go collect them, maybe this should be connected to the skills that allow you to do remote trade/research?
The same goes with RP ,I would like to be able to use RP for invention *directly* from the aganet across the ether. This would be at a much better rate (maybe 10-20 RP for each datacore) but you can still physically produce the datacores for sale. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6285
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Since we're being realistic, let's go all the way. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1807
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Posted - 2014.02.18 15:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
whining about blueprints is not a feature or idea. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
394
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Posted - 2014.02.18 17:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
The feature or idea is to update EVE comm systems to handle data more complex than just talking trash at eachother.
There are many things that we do today that our semi-intelligent starfaring tech apparently cant handle.
Any sort of data commodity should not be something that needs to be physically retrieved. Blueprints, scripts, agent contracts, etc. Should all be instantly transferable to anywhere you happen to be sitting in your spacecraft. I could see an argument for not having that access in Wormholes, and increasing prices as you get deeper into null sec, but its just data. |
Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2014.02.18 18:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
The blueprint files are godzigabytes long, so you need a special device to record then on. A futuristic pen-drive made of cellulose. |
Nag'o
From Our Cold Dead Hands The Kadeshi
57
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Posted - 2014.02.18 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
The physical object is not the blueprint itself, just a token with the serial number used to activate the manufature license. Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
539
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Posted - 2014.02.18 18:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree.
Really don't understand why we have to go gather a BPO and physically move it elsewhere. It should be loaded into a computer that we can access through intergalactic comms systems. The run limit on BPCs is completely ********. It makes no sense at all.
Now, I can understand gathering datacores and other exploration stuff because you have to find it and transport it to a station. But why can't we "redeem" those and add them to a personal industrial databank? We can trade from across a region but can't move blueprint data?
*An idea is forming*
Ever looked at the volume/mass relationship on ores and compared them to their in-game size? Arkonor and Mercoxit are the smallest in-game models for asteroids. But they have the largest volume per unit. Kind of breaks immersion when your Arkonor asteroid of 300 units at 16m3/unit (4800m3) is only a tiny speck compared to the massive Veldspar 'roid with 85k units at .1 m3/unit (850m3).
We should be mining by mass not volume. And fix the models.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Batelle wrote:whining about blueprints is not a feature or idea.
i speak troll aswell. don't start. |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nag'o wrote:The physical object is not the blueprint itself, just a token with the serial number used to activate the manufature license.
technicalities aside, (we can invent zillions scifi reasonable explanations about how it's made, transferred etc) it's about moving on from this to this. heh, i even found the culprit on eveonline website |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2475
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Posted - 2014.02.18 22:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
So where's the risk? You want instant blueprint transfer from one end of the galaxy to the other, how can I stop you from doing this? |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
395
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Posted - 2014.02.18 23:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why should you be able to stop it?
How do you stop trades in station?
How do you stop secure chat channels?
How can you stop mission runners from accepting missions.
I know EVE caters alot to pirates and grief minded players, but not every aspect of every game element has to open to it. It is supposed to be an RPG, and it would be nice if the occasional nod was given to making it a sensible sci-fi setting.
A more sensible thought would be that you can intercept the things made from the bluprints, just as you can crash missions, so no further adjustment needed.
Or, you could offer the suggestion that the hacking skill be useful for intercepting data transfers, or kicking industry jobs out of the system to free up slots for yourself, maybe even disrupt market orders and bringing in a new era of market PVP. |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.02.19 07:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:So where's the risk? You want instant blueprint transfer from one end of the galaxy to the other, how can I stop you from doing this?
i have instant comm with my spies in your region. how can you stop me from doing this ?
:P |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.02.19 07:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
in either case, i had more than 100 jumps through WHEREVER when buying all those bps. malediction rigged and navi 5 skills - so i put it to you, PLEASE, please stop me from doing this.
- absurd much, do you ? |
Zerlestes
Mechanized Industrial Warfare Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
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Posted - 2014.02.19 08:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
I agree its not realistic but its a system already in please and after reading many posts here i can say one thing every change that would allow people to avoid pvp in any means is bad some people enjoy shooting people transporting BPOs
its its more likely that you see flying pigs in eve |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.02.19 09:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zerlestes wrote:I agree its not realistic but its a system already in please and after reading many posts here i can say one thing every change that would allow people to avoid pvp in any means is bad some people enjoy shooting people transporting BPOs
its its more likely that you see flying pigs in eve
then lets not kid ourselves with the so called science behind the so called fiction. if it's nothin but a barbaric sledgehammer take on spacefare then let's build ramming frigates like in homeworld and remote/kamkaze detonated transports about to blow you` outpost the fu** up |
Zerlestes
Mechanized Industrial Warfare Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
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Posted - 2014.02.19 09:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
i m not against you change but right know you destroy every fundation of a civil talk about your idea or the base of your idea
trolls like it if you write something like this
Quote:then lets not kid ourselves with the so called science behind the so called fiction. if it's nothin but a barbaric sledgehammer take on spacefare then let's build ramming frigates like in homeworld and remote/kamkaze detonated transports about to blow you` outpost the fu** up |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.02.19 09:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
the idea is out there. an idea's foundation can't be destroyed let alone the idea itself. and by what i've seen my post is not the only one suggesting digital goods in digital format.
and yes the trolls love anything that justifies trolling. that will never change and it doesnt matter one bit. what's important is that the others consider it seriously because the troll is as important as you let it be |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional The Nova Foundry
1121
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Posted - 2014.02.19 09:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
A blueprint is an item in the Eve universe that has a value. (a massive one in some cases)
Transporting a high value item across the galaxy, should not be able to be performed instantly or risk free.
An item such as this may have a higher value in deep Zero-sec then it does in Hi-Sec, this opens up a logistic problem, a profit opportunity and a profession. Instant-safe transportation of these would remove all that.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
395
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Posted - 2014.02.19 13:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
So dont make it risk free. As I said, when updating the concept of comms, introduce hacking as a thing as well.
If applied to being able to interupt research, copying, manufacturing and market orders it might even be the boon lowsec has been looking for. If the only secure facility for playing with bluprints is your own, it will increase the demand for POSs, and its much easier to put one up in Lowsec. Right now using station facilities is annoying, but once scheduled you have your slot... Make that less certain and things may change.
It will encourage spreading out to get to less inhabited space, which in turn will increase hauling...and if more of that hauling is originating in lowsec the gate campers will have more to do.
There is a lot of merit to the idea, and its not all just carebear dreams |
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1233
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Posted - 2014.02.19 16:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:So where's the risk? You want instant blueprint transfer from one end of the galaxy to the other, how can I stop you from doing this?
I'm sorry but that above is pretty much my thinking as well. There has to be someway to make BP's and transportation of them a risk = reward venture. Instant transfer negates that.
If you see how many things die with BP's in their cargoholds it generates the economy.
Say you lost a BP in the back of your Mammoth that was ME 50 PE 100. You look on contracts and find one at ME 40 PE 80 but it now costs twice what you originally paid. You pay the price anyway cos you need it (ISK spent) and an industrialist trader somewhere takes that ISKX,XXX,XXX.XX and puts it into another venture. You take your BP in the back of your Leopard and speed away home...
That's the kind of interactions physical objects cause to happen and EvE is all about cause and consequence in addition to the butterfly effect.
TL;DR: No to digital BP's Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2014.02.19 20:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why can't see orders from different regions? It's only data.
EDIT: I'm serious, this is not sarcasm. If CCP removes blueprint items I want to be able to see other regions markets too. |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
15
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Posted - 2014.02.20 09:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:A blueprint is an item in the Eve universe that has a value. (a massive one in some cases)
Transporting a high value item across the galaxy, should not be able to be performed instantly or risk free.
rofl.
NO TROLLING HERE BUT: if i know your starbase password, that is EXTREMELY VALUABLE INTEL. and if i communicate it via private convo half-way across the galaxy, then -whoever- can bridge up and OWN you within minutes.
bring me all your counter arguements and i'll slam the insta chat feature and this every single time.
get real. you can download consciousness from a clone to another and can't a blueprint ? no srsly. COUNSCIOUSNESS. ponder that.
it's just normal for some to reply as if they were replying to the 1st post in this thread, afterall TL/DR is a common issue nowadays, but it's allright, i'll keep tell in you that it's absurd.
But hey, by all means, if you'd rather use the post office instead of email BE MY GUEST. just don't wave a flag and demand everybody else to do it too. |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
15
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Posted - 2014.02.20 09:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jta Grl wrote:Why can't see orders from different regions? It's only data.
EDIT: I'm serious, this is not sarcasm. If CCP removes blueprint items I want to be able to see other regions markets too.
since market data leaks to outside hubs such as eve-central i really don't see why. but it's possible they try to prevent tradebots this way.
anyway i agree with you, yes it's data, you should be able to see everything you have access to (say by standings/personal or corporate etc) - whatever -
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
1792
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 10:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just say no to instantaneous, risk-free transport of multi-billion-ISK blueprints. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1163
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 11:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'll throw out a lore reason, as for why blueprints can't be sent via the EVE communication network.
It's just too much data. Building something as complex as a spaceship from the starting point of "piles of minerals" is going to take a ton of instructional know-how.
It may just be more efficient/cost effective to transport a physical copy of the data, than attempt to transmit it across interstellar distances. Even RL, the fastest way to transport bulk data is to load it up on a truck and drive it. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2014.02.20 12:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I'll throw out a lore reason, as for why blueprints can't be sent via the EVE communication network.
It's just too much data. Building something as complex as a spaceship from the starting point of "piles of minerals" is going to take a ton of instructional know-how.
It may just be more efficient/cost effective to transport a physical copy of the data, than attempt to transmit it across interstellar distances. Even RL, the fastest way to transport bulk data is to load it up on a truck and drive it.
But then we are talking about a universe where it is possible to tranfer a clone's cosncience from a pod to a station medical facility. That's a lof of data too, isn't it?
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
396
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Posted - 2014.02.20 13:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
In theory, you are updating your clone every time you dock, and over time at regular intervals. The death scan is just to update a reletively small amount of data. This is why you have to be at a clone facility to install one in the first place.
Of course part of this is because the fast scanning process is itself lethal. |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
15
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Posted - 2014.02.21 09:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:I'll throw out a lore reason, as for why blueprints can't be sent via the EVE communication network.
It's just too much data. Building something as complex as a spaceship from the starting point of "piles of minerals" is going to take a ton of instructional know-how.
It may just be more efficient/cost effective to transport a physical copy of the data, than attempt to transmit it across interstellar distances. Even RL, the fastest way to transport bulk data is to load it up on a truck and drive it.
thank you. now read this : consciouness download in backup clone. tl/dr ? |
xiline anahata
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
15
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Posted - 2014.02.21 09:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:In theory, you are updating your clone every time you dock, and over time at regular intervals. The death scan is just to update a reletively small amount of data. This is why you have to be at a clone facility to install one in the first place.
Of course part of this is because the fast scanning process is itself lethal.
yes. because if you have 100 mil sp and a 900.000 backup clone, the moment you hit the "upgrade clone" button you're instakilled. yes, you can get that many sp without docking.
... please |
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