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Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.03.13 17:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Hoshi Sorano wrote:Tippia wrote:So again, what is it you actually what to achieve? What is the problem you're trying to solve? How is it not being fulfilled by what's already at your disposal? How about the ability to move loads in the ~300k m3 capacity range through hostile space while being able to fit a reasonable defense? Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not aware of any options that currently fill that role. You form a fleet.
Ah, yes, flippancy; the defense against all logic.
Forming a fleet reduces the efficiency of the haul, dramatically increasing the man hours needed per m3 of cargo moved, which will only result in higher prices.
Even though it is an option to accomplish the same end result, the fact remains that there is still not a ship which can move ~300k m3 cargos while fitting its own defense, therefore, the role is still unfilled. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19960
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 17:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
Hoshi Sorano wrote:Ah, yes, flippancy; the defense against all logic. How is it flippant to give a completely accurate, trivially implemented, and entirely straight-forward answer to your question?
Quote:Forming a fleet reduces the efficiency of the haul, dramatically increasing the man hours needed per m3 of cargo moved, which will only result in higher prices. So? If those are your worries, why are you moving through hostile space to begin with? That is where your efficiency and prices take a hit.
Quote:Even though it is an option to accomplish the same end result, the fact remains that there is still not a ship which can move ~300k m3 cargos while fitting its own defense, therefore, the role is still unfilled. Why does this role need to exist? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10368
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Posted - 2014.03.13 17:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:stoicfaux wrote:On a more serious note, if freighter pilots find their cargo size is limited more by ganking profitability than by available goods to transport, then we probably need to throw them a bone. Meaning, the ganking business probably shouldn't be allowed to overshadow the business side of freight hauling.
Have you seen the sheer number of freighter in Jita and surrounding systems at any time of the day, but especially peak hours? Freighters are fine. But are we seeing so many freighters because they're making more trips with partially filled holds in order to avoid carrying gank-worthy amounts of cargo?
Lets face it, Most people use the wrong ship for transporting anything. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10368
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 17:36:00 -
[94] - Quote
Hoshi Sorano wrote:baltec1 wrote:Hoshi Sorano wrote:Tippia wrote:So again, what is it you actually what to achieve? What is the problem you're trying to solve? How is it not being fulfilled by what's already at your disposal? How about the ability to move loads in the ~300k m3 capacity range through hostile space while being able to fit a reasonable defense? Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not aware of any options that currently fill that role. You form a fleet. Ah, yes, flippancy; the defense against all logic. Forming a fleet reduces the efficiency of the haul, dramatically increasing the man hours needed per m3 of cargo moved, which will only result in higher prices. Even though it is an option to accomplish the same end result, the fact remains that there is still not a ship which can move ~300k m3 cargos while fitting its own defense, therefore, the role is still unfilled.
Ever think that there is not meant to be such a ship for moving 300k of high value cargo? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
156
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Posted - 2014.03.13 17:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
This solution is only viable if you have friends and like to play with other people. I know very few freighter pilots.
Fixed that for you. Incidentally, with the HP buffer being structure (0% resists) and not effectively repairable there is NO way to keep a freighter alive in when it hits the fan.
This ENCOURAGES freighter pilots to stay solo, for op security.
Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10368
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 17:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
This solution is only viable if you have friends and like to play with other people. I know very few freighter pilots.
Fixed that for you. Incidentally, with the HP buffer being structure (0% resists) and not effectively repairable there is NO way to keep a freighter alive in when it hits the fan. This ENCOURAGES freighter pilots to stay solo, for op security.
Large Remote Hull Repairer II Medium Hull Repairer II Small Remote Hull Repairer II Hull Repping drones were added as of this week.
Plus We have the armour and sheild reppers. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3682
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 18:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
As long as a freighter could NOT fit a DCU, nor a 100mn MWD, nor a cloak!, I have no issues with fittable freighters.
Make them balance agility, capacity, and tank, so you get one of the three, but no more. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19967
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 18:06:00 -
[98] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Make them balance agility, capacity, and tank, so you get one of the three, but no more. I prefer them the way they are now, where you don't have to sacrifice one (or two) for the other(s). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3266
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Posted - 2014.03.13 19:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
This is what is required to add a low-slot when trying to maintain the status quo, because modules increase the following:
* Reduce hull, armor, and shield amounts. * Reduce hull, armor, and shield resists. * Reduce cargo capacity. * Reduce agility. * Reduce velocity.
Armor reppers, especially capital-size, and ancillary armor boosters probably would also have to be addressed.
Mid-slots are similar, though shield boosters and capacitor boosters may have to be addressed. Plus warping in 10 seconds may be considered an issue.
Adding high-slots is probably the least problematic, though not without issues: cloak, capital-sized weapons, cyno.
I certainly wouldn't want to be The Bear that had to juggle the numbers, and I'd just leave them as-is. [Though EVE really needs a sub-cap ship carrier.] |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3683
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 19:20:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:This is what is required to add a low-slot when trying to maintain the status quo, because modules increase the following:
* Reduce hull, armor, and shield amounts. * Reduce hull, armor, and shield resists. * Reduce shield recharge rate (hp/s). * Reduce cargo capacity. * Reduce agility. * Reduce velocity.
These could be substantial nerfs, especially when module overloading is considered.
Armor reppers, especially capital-size, and ancillary armor boosters probably would also have to be addressed.
Mid-slots are similar, though shield boosters and capacitor boosters may have to be addressed. Plus warping in 10 seconds may be considered an issue.
Adding high-slots is probably the least problematic, though not without issues: cloak, capital-sized weapons, cyno.
I certainly wouldn't want to be The Bear that had to juggle the numbers, and I'd just leave them as-is. [Though EVE really needs a sub-cap ship carrier.]
The amount of PG the ship is assigned will balance things like reppers and capital modules.
Cloak is an issue, as it would be an extremely powerful mod for the freighter. Several Sov Structures require a freighter to move, and a cloak would make moving them a bit too simple. As for the cyno or guns, who cares....
The only midslot item of concern is the 100MN MWD. Currently you can make an Orca enter warp in 10 seconds using the "pulse your MWD" technique, and I think extending this to freighters with a single modules is too much. Especially if they can fit a tank in the lows and an MWD in the mid.
As for the Lows. The DCU is problematic because it is a sinlge Mod that essentially doubles the ships EHP. Freighters have mostly structure, and the DCU is just too potent. As for armor reppers, shield reppers, plates, etc... The base HP in Armor is generally so large that you will get a lot more EHP by simply adding resistances to your Armor. This is also very beneficial for RR. I outlined an idea on some stats that could work for rebalancing a freighter here.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2838
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Posted - 2014.03.13 19:59:00 -
[101] - Quote
As I've said, regular modules would be difficult to balance with.
Which is why you don't, and have subsystems with change the ship (but not in a multiplying way) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1014
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Posted - 2014.03.13 20:12:00 -
[102] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:As I've said, regular modules would be difficult to balance with.
Which is why you don't, and have subsystems with change the ship (but not in a multiplying way)
Something like Reduce cargo capacity by 300,000 m3 and increase hull HP by 50,000 hp? I guess that could work depending on what subs they create. |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1261
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Posted - 2014.03.13 21:43:00 -
[103] - Quote
Make caps you don't want I highsec 2.9mill mass when flat packed (packaging for special CAPITAL MATS or whatever science fiction you care for
So many ways to defeat people sneaking caps in it's not even with worrying about.
Freighters are hardly game breaking even with 8 low slots. Now, 8 high slots could be interesting argument against. *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2734
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:50:00 -
[104] - Quote
Role bonus: -100% to module and rig bonuses to cargo capacity. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2838
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:As I've said, regular modules would be difficult to balance with.
Which is why you don't, and have subsystems with change the ship (but not in a multiplying way) Something like Reduce cargo capacity by 300,000 m3 and increase hull HP by 50,000 hp? I guess that could work depending on what subs they create.
I'd more think you have a base model with low stats. And then can fit various subsystems (or special low modules. something) which can boost the stats up to something useful. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Spaeder
DEAD JESTERS The Harlequin's
0
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Posted - 2014.03.14 08:37:00 -
[106] - Quote
No |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.03.14 17:24:00 -
[107] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Hoshi Sorano wrote:baltec1 wrote:Hoshi Sorano wrote:Tippia wrote:So again, what is it you actually what to achieve? What is the problem you're trying to solve? How is it not being fulfilled by what's already at your disposal? How about the ability to move loads in the ~300k m3 capacity range through hostile space while being able to fit a reasonable defense? Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not aware of any options that currently fill that role. You form a fleet. Ah, yes, flippancy; the defense against all logic. Forming a fleet reduces the efficiency of the haul, dramatically increasing the man hours needed per m3 of cargo moved, which will only result in higher prices. Even though it is an option to accomplish the same end result, the fact remains that there is still not a ship which can move ~300k m3 cargos while fitting its own defense, therefore, the role is still unfilled. Ever think that there is not meant to be such a ship for moving 300k of high value cargo?
Why not?
There is obviously a demand for it caused by a number of factors, gank target value being a prime concern. In the real world, the market would fill that need as a ship designer would see an opportunity to sell a product. Why shouldn't the game world mimic that? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10374
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Hoshi Sorano wrote:
Why not?
There is obviously a demand for it caused by a number of factors, gank target value being a prime concern. In the real world, the market would fill that need as a ship designer would see an opportunity to sell a product. Why shouldn't the game world mimic that?
I want a megathron that can mount a jump drive. I also want a megathron that can mount a bomb launcher and another that can use black ops jump bridges. There are also people who want their titans to be able to track subcaps.
We will not see any of these things because they would be unbalanced. If you want to transport high value assest you either fill a freighter and form a defensive fleet to guard it or do multiple trips in one of the other ships built for transporting high value items. You will never see a ship that can transport 300k of high value items because it would be unbalanced and rended multiple other ships useless. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20037
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 17:34:00 -
[109] - Quote
Hoshi Sorano wrote:Why not? Because it would be too safe and too easy and would render too many existing ships and strategies obsolete. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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