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Pyhrria Venus
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:24:00 -
[1]
What the hell is wrong with you BPO holders? Produce Produce Produce.
Look at the price of HACs, they are rediculous, there is no reason for them to be so high. Prices on some HACs have gone up 400% over the last 5 months. Why? I know they cost more to produce now, but the profit margins are retarded.
Perhaps if you reseed the HAC BPOs prices would come back down to battleship level prices and more people could afford them. For some the loss of a HAC is a loss of a week worth of work.
For those of us lucky enough to have high income ingame its just irritating to pay rediculous prices knowing that the ship has been through 4 or 5 middle men who all raise the price a bit.
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sableye
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:26:00 -
[2]
not all producerssell at them prices but its not producers fault anyway its demand if they sold them cheaper people would buy them up and re-sell for current prices, only way to make them cheaper is either people get less intrested int hem and demand lowers (not likely) or ccp release more bpo's there is not alot producers can do about either of those.
ORC Outrage Recruiting You Today. |
Kai Jyokoroi
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:32:00 -
[3]
Economics lesson 1 - supply and demand
If people weren't willing to pay 250 mil for a cerberus, they wouldn't sell.
As it is, there are people constantly wanting HACs and the BPOs are running at full speed most of the time.
People want them a lot There is more demand than supply Prices stay high But they still sell BPO holders don't care.
THE END _____________
STAIN ALLIANCE ....As I recall, people didn't much like the Vietcong, either.
Revamp the Domi! |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:34:00 -
[4]
if people are willing to pay >200mil for a HAC, they will do. If the producers sell them for less, other players will buy them and resell for the demand price. and if you can't meet the demand price, its going to be harder for you to get one.
Tell me, if you had a BPO, would you honestly put them on the market at 100mil?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
franny
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:34:00 -
[5]
look, it's our weekly rant about HAC price... where the F is my horse?
ahh there it is
----------- /wtb Eris in a cage Sorry, she's not for sale. You can get Imaran for free though - Wrangler can I at least get someone decent? Sure, I'll let you know when I find one - Wrangler |
David Hope
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:36:00 -
[6]
Mate, only about half of the ship bpos are producing ships for the general market. So you are talking about 10 BPOS per ship servicing the entire Eve community.
With good skills you will get about a HAC a day from a BPO. In other words, there are around *seventy* of each ship being built a week and put up on the open market. With numbers so small, are you really surprised that they go for so much?
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: HippoKing if people are willing to pay >200mil for a HAC, they will do. If the producers sell them for less, other players will buy them and resell for the demand price. and if you can't meet the demand price, its going to be harder for you to get one.
Tell me, if you had a BPO, would you honestly put them on the market at 100mil?
No. I will put my Vagabonds at 400M in Market. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:41:00 -
[8]
do some people REALLY think that the people who have the BPO's aren't running them all the time? I can't imagine it'd just sit idle...
but does anyone NOT agree that there are not enough BPO's for many of these things?
~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:41:00 -
[9]
i'll build them for you!
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Pyhrria Venus
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:50:00 -
[10]
Ok so ya 1: I know all about supply/demand. 2: since yes people will pay those prices, including me cause i only fly HACs, thats simple math. 3: Obviously there is WAY WAY WAY more dmeand than supply so reseed the damn BPOs.
Is it that hard to understand CCP?
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Pyhrria Venus
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:51:00 -
[11]
And this will become more of a dialy rant than weekley now.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: HippoKing i'll build them for you!
Hmmmm... let me think about it first. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.14 08:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pyhrria Venus
2: since yes people will pay those prices, including me cause i only fly HACs, thats simple math.
Is it that hard to understand CCP?
There you go. You want I Win ship, you will have to pay for the I Win price. CCP knows this is a problem but can not do anything until Kali arrives. Pay or wait. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 09:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pyhrria Venus Ok so ya 1: I know all about supply/demand. 2: since yes people will pay those prices, including me cause i only fly HACs, thats simple math. 3: Obviously there is WAY WAY WAY more dmeand than supply so reseed the damn BPOs.
Is it that hard to understand CCP?
ok, explain this: what is wrong with the current prices? you are clearly willing to pay them, so the ship must be worth that much to you. Why does the price need to be dropped?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Pyhrria Venus
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Posted - 2006.04.14 09:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Pyhrria Venus on 14/04/2006 09:42:54 Because I can make way more isk/hr than 99% of people i know who dont hold t2 bpos. I run 3 acounts to do so, people should not be forced to alt ***** to afford HACs easily imo.
Personally i think CCP is happy because so many people run multiple acounts now, making more real life money so prices in eve being inflated causing more people to use multiple acounts is what htey want.
an odd case of ingame economy guiding RL economy.
my .02
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Isidriel
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Posted - 2006.04.14 09:42:00 -
[16]
*yawn*
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.04.14 10:25:00 -
[17]
although i love the current hac prices there is one thing that buges me greatly about the good t2 bpos like HACS
basicly, a cerb bpo. will get you more than 200mil isk a day. nearly 1.5bil isk a week. thats nearly 80bil isk a year!
80bil isk a year is just an i win button for any medium/small corp out there. gained by pure luck.
hac prices should stay, but there should be some way to spread out the isk made to more people. perhaps the new agent lottery system will permit the pooling of RP to get t2 bpos, where each RP you give gets you a bpc.
for example, if group A made a bid of 25mil RP for a HAC bpo, and i gave 0.25mil RP to that group. the bpo makes 365BPC a year so i should get (365*0.25)/25 about 3.65BPC of that HAC per year! that way, the bpo is in effect given out to many people. probably 60 or more infact. imo something like that would be much more fiar
it would keep current high prices , which is great, if hacs where 50mil everyone will be in hacs, but it will spread out the wealth of t2 to the general population!.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON |
Zekk Pacus
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Posted - 2006.04.14 10:44:00 -
[18]
I'm glad one of these threads popped up, because I've been thinking about it, and here come my 0.02iskies...
Number one: Basic supply. There are only 20 HAC BPOs for each ship type. Of those probably a quarter and in some cases up to a half are either inactive (player's gone on holiday or got bored and gone to play WoW or something) or being used solely by an alliance to keep their fleet up to strength. That means a very limited supply and more and more people can or will be able to fly HACs very soon. And after training cruiser for a month they want to fly one NOW, dammit!
Number two: Advanced supply. The HACs take a long time to produce and it's not a case of just cooking minerals - there are a lot of components that go into it. For starters you need the t1 ship, then you need the RAM, and then you need various t2 components that themselves require trade goods and/or moon minerals to build. If any part of this supply chain breaks down you can't produce a ship. Setting up a supply chain takes time, effort, and ISK.
Number three: Production limits. As I stated there are only a certain number of BPOs producing and they can't produce fast. It takes me 4 hours to produce a ferox but it'd take me a day and a half to produce a cerb. This means a max of 40 ships a week or so. With more and more people able to fly the things and more and more people able to lose them in combat we're still looking at a shrinking supply pool.
Number four: Market forces. If they drop the price, you'll buy the HACs, and re-sell them for the market price. This is simple economic theory. People will pay the price therefore why shouldn't someone charge the price. If the producers don't, someone else will.
The only way to fix all this is to wait for Kali with the BPCs and reverse engineering. For now, stop complaining and buy one from a production corp. There's a waiting list but the price is a lot lower (I have a Cerb on order from BIG and it cost me 67mill - not exactly a ripoff).
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Tremain
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Posted - 2006.04.14 10:44:00 -
[19]
What is the complaint in this thread again? It seems to have switched every other post.
First it's the BPO holders price gouging, then people paying too much, then it's CCP's fault for not releasing BPOs and now it's unfair that the lottery is pure luck!
Does anyone care that someone makes 80b a year? I don't, I want that person to be me but it isn't going to happen so I get over it.
Why should CCP release more BPOs? They might well release more but nothing like enough to have an effect on prices - what if they released thousands of each BPO, so much so that the prices dropped to near T1 prices?
Hey - lets make it even simple, remove hacs and give t1 cruisers the same specs? Ah but now everyone has them so they're nothing special.
Simply fact is, there is too much isk in the system, ratting, missions, mining - it all makes too much isk once you get to a certain level which makes silly prices like these perfectly feasible.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.04.14 10:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Economics lesson 1 - supply and demand
If people weren't willing to pay 250 mil for a cerberus, they wouldn't sell.
As it is, there are people constantly wanting HACs and the BPOs are running at full speed most of the time.
People want them a lot There is more demand than supply Prices stay high But they still sell BPO holders don't care.
THE END
Learn economic, please. Supply and demand rules work only when market is free and highly competitive. In eve we do not have either free market or competitive market. Price on some rare items is just dictated by producers(please, do not speak about evil semi-mythical resellers ). You will pay as many as they want. Because you have no choice.
And I do not know why CCP must be happy, when in fact HACs are eliminated form the PvP.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Economics lesson 1 - supply and demand
If people weren't willing to pay 250 mil for a cerberus, they wouldn't sell.
As it is, there are people constantly wanting HACs and the BPOs are running at full speed most of the time.
People want them a lot There is more demand than supply Prices stay high But they still sell BPO holders don't care.
THE END
Learn economic, please. Supply and demand rules work only when market is free and highly competitive. In eve we do not have either free market or competitive market. Price on some rare items is just dictated by producers(please, do not speak about evil semi-mythical resellers ). You will pay as many as they want. Because you have no choice.
And I do not know why CCP must be happy, when in fact HACs are eliminated form the PvP.
ROFL. No competition? Maybe. No free market? Not really, depends on how you define what a "free market" is. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: HippoKing on 14/04/2006 11:14:06
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Economics lesson 1 - supply and demand
If people weren't willing to pay 250 mil for a cerberus, they wouldn't sell.
As it is, there are people constantly wanting HACs and the BPOs are running at full speed most of the time.
People want them a lot There is more demand than supply Prices stay high But they still sell BPO holders don't care.
THE END
Learn economic, please. Supply and demand rules work only when market is free and highly competitive. In eve we do not have either free market or competitive market. Price on some rare items is just dictated by producers(please, do not speak about evil semi-mythical resellers ). You will pay as many as they want. Because you have no choice.
And I do not know why CCP must be happy, when in fact HACs are eliminated form the PvP.
what the **** are you takling about? I know prices are dictated by resellers. I've seen stuff go on the market too low, and i've shifted it up and made myself 100mil in an hour for 2mins work. It happens. If you come to my region, and put HACs on the market at 100mil a piece, i'll make a fat profit by bumping them all up to 200mil. Assuming i get there first, which is unlikely. Resellers are not evil, and by no means are they mythical. They are just the ones who understand the market.
Our market is as free as a real market for semi-rare things. Take diamonds. They have a huge profit margin, because the supply is limited, and controlled. Why would the deBeers or whoever it is sell them for less than people will pay? it just eats their profits . Economics is about making the most money possible, not making people happy. You extract the most money you can from your resources. You (the customer) pay as much as you will pay. If HACs hit 400mil there is no way i would fly them. At the moment i can afford to fly them. I know my limits on prices. The prices will hit the highest they can go where every unit sells.
You have all the choice in the world. You can buy, or you can not buy. That is all the choice you need.
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:14:00 -
[23]
The eve hac market can be compared to the swedish fuel market. Prices are quite equal no matter where you fuel your car. Anyone believe these companies actually compete against eachother? Because if you dont, you must also agree that there is no "free" market.
Its likely that the handful of hac producers in the game are working together instead of competing. And since supply has a production limit, even if one of them wanted to sell their ships cheaper, the competition would buy them and re-sell them.
CCP wants the hac market to work this way, and thats fine. Rich people need toys too.
--- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:15:00 -
[24]
hey hey,
250mil for a hac is nothing to 300k for a Valkyrie II ! or 150k for a Warrior II !
or having to buy specific items off WEBSITES !!!!!!!!!!!!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! !! as the TII fashion seems to have become.
but yes if your willing to pay the high prices then you shouldnt complain. if you want a BPO then enter the lottery, if your lucky enough to have high income then maybe you should :
1) remember the little people 2) remember when isk was actually hard to come by and it took a few months to buy a BS or even mine for it. 3) EvE seems to be suffering from inflation average wallets are 50mil + and the market has adjusted accordingly 4) Player greed and the ever growing desire for wealth drives prices up :(
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Rosalina Sarinna
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi (please, do not speak about evil semi-mythical resellers ).
Sorry just have to pick you up on this... I am a reseller, and its not that uncommon. Reselling can make big ISK, especially with ships like this.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey,
250mil for a hac is nothing to 300k for a Valkyrie II ! or 150k for a Warrior II !
or having to buy specific items off WEBSITES !!!!!!!!!!!!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! !! as the TII fashion seems to have become.
but yes if your willing to pay the high prices then you shouldnt complain. if you want a BPO then enter the lottery, if your lucky enough to have high income then maybe you should :
1) remember the little people 2) remember when isk was actually hard to come by and it took a few months to buy a BS or even mine for it. 3) EvE seems to be suffering from inflation average wallets are 50mil + and the market has adjusted accordingly 4) Player greed and the ever growing desire for wealth drives prices up :(
The richest corporations are also the most powerful corporations, because money equals power. Just as in the real world. Its not just about collecting money. Its about being a force to be reckoned with in the eve universe. I guess that is something most corporations want.
--- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
Hinik
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Posted - 2006.04.14 11:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Economics lesson 1 - supply and demand
If people weren't willing to pay 250 mil for a cerberus, they wouldn't sell.
As it is, there are people constantly wanting HACs and the BPOs are running at full speed most of the time.
People want them a lot There is more demand than supply Prices stay high But they still sell BPO holders don't care.
THE END
Learn economic, please. Supply and demand rules work only when market is free and highly competitive. In eve we do not have either free market or competitive market. Price on some rare items is just dictated by producers(please, do not speak about evil semi-mythical resellers ). You will pay as many as they want. Because you have no choice.
And I do not know why CCP must be happy, when in fact HACs are eliminated form the PvP.
oh please! no choice? ofc you have a choice... you can pay and have a HAC... or you can not pay... and not have a HAC.
NOBODY is forcing ANYONE to pay the stupid prices (and they are stupid) like someone said, if you have the patience and fresight to buy from BIG or Naga before you can fly the damn thing, you wouldn't be forced to spent all your hard earned iskis on it when you CAN fly it...
I'm sorry if I sound annoyed... it's because I have seen this argument so many times, and you know what? it doesn't change a thing. not one iota.
funny, that.
LOVES CHARITY REGARD |
Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.04.14 12:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pyhrria Venus Ok so ya 1: I know all about supply/demand. 2: since yes people will pay those prices, including me cause i only fly HACs, thats simple math. 3: Obviously there is WAY WAY WAY more dmeand than supply so reseed the damn BPOs.
Is it that hard to understand CCP?
Listen to this, because it's fact.
You can't expect the hand of god to implement more BPO's because the price has gone up. It's unrealistic.
You understand only the demand part of the equation, rather obviously. It dosn't go, 'people want more hac's and therefore cheaper prices, therefore seed more BPO's', it goes 'people want more hac's and therefore the producers raise the price because people are willing to pay'.
It's really, really, really, painfully simple. Can people just get it and stop posting retarded opinion?
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Fredbob
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Posted - 2006.04.14 12:43:00 -
[29]
The price on the market is fine, ppl are paying it then complaining, thats their problem..
But limited BPOs and increasing players? That's a problem. If it's "balanced" now, how is it balanced in x months time when the producers can't make any more than they can now, but there are 1000s more players training for ship x from said supplier? That'll lead to backlogs of months and months or even a year, constantly growing as more people place their orders. Which I can't see as healthy for anyone (well maybe the lottery winners)
More BPOs just puts the problem off a bit, I hope they can "fix" it somehow, not by making hacs ten a penny, not by lowering their build cost to tech1 and buildtime to 25mins, but by ensuring that the production scales somehow with the rest of the game.
The fact producers can sell a vaga at 1bil a peice isn't the main problem at all imo. ___________ ~Fredbob~ |
Annushka
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:10:00 -
[30]
Please stop trying to quote "supply and demand" as a real life justification for the high prices of tech 2 in eve. IT DOESN'T WASH.
Theres two parts to supply and demand, yes demand is high thus prices are high that is correct. HOWEVER any market in such an inflated price situation, 700% mark ups on some, the supply adjusts, more manufacturers come along prices come down. Problem in eve is that the supply can't grow thus the liited number of BPO holders have a monopoly and a bottomless wallet as a result.
So until we get to reverse engineer stuff to get BPs or more are seeded to increase supply to reflect the increased demand PLEASE STOP WITH THE REAL WORLD ANALOGIES to justify what is basically massive opertunistic profitering on behalf of the present BPO holders.
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:19:00 -
[31]
I just refuse to buy one at those prices. However I do wish I had bought a vaga when I though the price was to high and was only at 80 mil :(
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:24:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jet Collins I just refuse to buy one at those prices.
and you don't. you are excercising your right as a consumer. well done
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Annushka Theres two parts to supply and demand, yes demand is high thus prices are high that is correct. HOWEVER any market in such an inflated price situation, 700% mark ups on some, the supply adjusts, more manufacturers come along prices come down. Problem in eve is that the supply can't grow thus the liited number of BPO holders have a monopoly and a bottomless wallet as a result.
read my diamond analogy of the first page
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:32:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 14/04/2006 13:32:56
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Jet Collins I just refuse to buy one at those prices.
and you don't. you are excercising your right as a consumer. well done
Thank you I'm hoping more will follow to bring the price down... But I know I'm just kidding myself so I'll be buying other stuff I think is worth while until I feel it is worth to pay the price for a vaga.
Ohh I have a buy order open in metro for one vaga at 120mil . Fill it if you like. I was feeling generous when I put it up for 120mil.
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Economics lesson 1 - supply and demand
If people weren't willing to pay 250 mil for a cerberus, they wouldn't sell.
As it is, there are people constantly wanting HACs and the BPOs are running at full speed most of the time.
People want them a lot There is more demand than supply Prices stay high But they still sell BPO holders don't care.
THE END
Learn economic, please. Supply and demand rules work only when market is free and highly competitive. In eve we do not have either free market or competitive market. Price on some rare items is just dictated by producers(please, do not speak about evil semi-mythical resellers ). You will pay as many as they want. Because you have no choice.
And I do not know why CCP must be happy, when in fact HACs are eliminated form the PvP.
Evil-Semi Mythical resellers?
When I see a HAC on market or escrow, going cheaper than the average at the time, I snatch it up and resell it for proper prices without thinking twice about it. I have done so in the past and I will continue to do so.
Woot! I'm a mythical creature!
Respect the Domi. Or else.
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.04.14 13:35:00 -
[36]
Also, noone is forcing you to fly HACs.
This IS a simple case of supply and demand.
Supply is limited to 10-20 every day. Probably hunreds of people want a HAC at any given point. Ergo, the competition for those few HACs on sale rise, so the prices rise. This might not even be the fault of the producers themselves, it's mostly, I belive, the fault of evil resellers like myself.
Respect the Domi. Or else.
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Agent2 Holtze
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Posted - 2006.04.14 14:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: HippoKing blah blah blah Tell me, if you had a BPO, would you honestly put them on the market at 100mil?
I know a guy selling zealots at 85m.
But like everywhere else, waiting lists are a million years because of resellers.
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Joe
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Posted - 2006.04.14 15:26:00 -
[38]
'T2 Ships why Price Gouge the crap out of them'
Buyers Dictate Prices.
There is more and more demand from buyers each week.
Producers build HACs for their corp and alliance. They dont care if the public gets any at all. The Dev's never mentioned that Tech II bpo owners have any obligation to supply the general public.
When producers sell at below the market average price (dictated by the buplic) they end up with waiting lists (I have proof)
Did i miss anything, or is my T2 pricing spam ready to be pasted into the daily HAC whine threads?
ps. to the other forum warriors: using poor excuses like 'component prices and building technicality' is incrediably transparent, and may cuase valid pionts in your posts from being dismissed aswell.
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Annushka
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Posted - 2006.04.14 15:26:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Annushka on 14/04/2006 15:27:53 Ok diamonds as an example. Go back to the time of cecil rhodes and DeBeers controlled the vast majority of diamond supply and could set the price unilaterally. As we see now with HAC prices. Whats happened subsequently is other people came along and started diamond mines/companies. Supply adjusted to the demand the price FELL. Eve has an in built monopoly for the holders of tech 2 BPs that cannot be challenged and hence no competion and hence supply cannot adjust as it should, That is the problem. When we can tear a HAC or a tech 2 component apart and reverse engineer it, I don't think eve has a patent system, the market will adjust to a sensible level as more BPs come into circulation.
At present I buy HACs as i play this game for Fun and they are the ships i enjoy flying most so i pay the cost doesn't mean i have to like it
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Angelus X
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Posted - 2006.04.14 16:11:00 -
[40]
Personally, i can't help touching myself when I'm rolling around in my 200mil+ pimp HAC. ----- Angelus X - Meatshield
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Isidriel
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Posted - 2006.04.14 17:07:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Isidriel on 14/04/2006 17:07:29 *yawn*
I'll hate myself in the morning, but I'll actually type more than my usual yawn I guess.
For those clamoring about the OMGTHISAINTANYTHINGLIKERLTHEPRICESAREBORKEDANDTHERESNOCOMPETITION in terms of supply/demand, think of it in terms of limited/finite total resources. Granted, technically, HAC production will probably never cease unless the components disappear...but the analogy I'm about to attempt somewhat holds true (tenuously) since the current HAC production model has hard caps.
Think of HACs as fossil fuels.
So, start looking for alternative energy sources. Battleships, battlecruisers and cruisers ftw?
-----
One last point. Maybe one of the reasons there's so much of an outcry is because players have a mistaken sense of entitlement. "What? I signed up for Eve so where's my 40 Moon Acres and a HAC?".
Yeah, that's not quite how the game works, kids.
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.04.14 17:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pyhrria Venus What the hell is wrong with you BPO holders? Produce Produce Produce.
Look at the price of HACs, they are rediculous, there is no reason for them to be so high. Prices on some HACs have gone up 400% over the last 5 months. Why? I know they cost more to produce now, but the profit margins are retarded.
Perhaps if you reseed the HAC BPOs prices would come back down to battleship level prices and more people could afford them. For some the loss of a HAC is a loss of a week worth of work.
For those of us lucky enough to have high income ingame its just irritating to pay rediculous prices knowing that the ship has been through 4 or 5 middle men who all raise the price a bit.
Look retard.
Naga, TRUST, and all the other T2 ship producers are charging moderate prices for the ships. Its the ******* reselling players that are marking up the market. If you want a fair price, put an order in with the big producing alliances, dont go to the market. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.04.14 17:56:00 -
[43]
The thing is that its all about perspective. 200mil may seem to be a lot for a HAC, but even for me (lil mission runner that i am) i wouldn't say its exessive.
Whatever is you your mechanism for money making, 200mil isn't that vast of target if your an established player.
The problem people seem to have is that they want a HAC because they are looking for the next one up from a BS, but they don't want to pay more than cost for them. The HAC is very much the half million pound aston martin of the eve world. You might have a poster of it, you might consider buying one if you become an eminantly powerful buisnessman. But you would never see people screaming about prices on their forums, regardless of limited production runs and waiting lists. Until you have the financial power to get in your pimpmobile of choice, your raven still ganks and still tanks and is still full insurable.
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Ngwee
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Posted - 2006.04.14 18:20:00 -
[44]
Ill say this only once.
The T2 BPO lottery (20 per item) worked ok for a smaller player base , that was over a year and 60k new subscribers ago. The fact that theres +120k subscribers now seems to have escaped most people who have replied. (Captive market for sure - no option except for the lucky few)
The T2 system is now borked because a huge amount of players are skilled enough now to fly HACS and want one. The whole T2 system was based around a lot less players than are now in game. So what do CCP need to do?
1 / Nothing? (f**k you - unless you can afford the hundreds of millions and the wait for an HAC? )
2 / Reseeed inactive BPOs?
3 / Seed new BPOs (see above)?
4 / create a real chance to reverse engineer ships or BPCs?
Id hope anything except 1.
Anyone who tries to compare this situation with an RL economic model doesnt know squat about politics. Their company would be first in line to be privatized.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 19:10:00 -
[45]
Look, i know prices have gone up. What i don't understand is WHY shouldn't they be high?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.04.14 19:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 14/04/2006 19:13:14
Originally by: Angelus X Personally, i can't help touching myself when I'm rolling around in my 200mil+ pimp HAC.
you forgot to mention that bob get their hacs for 50m each :)
Originally by: HippoKing Look, i know prices have gone up. What i don't understand is WHY shouldn't they be high?
prahaps you should tell us why they SHOULD be so high?
______________________________________________________ Account Cancelled |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.14 19:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ngwee Ill say this only once.
The T2 BPO lottery (20 per item) worked ok for a smaller player base , that was over a year and 60k new subscribers ago. The fact that theres +120k subscribers now seems to have escaped most people who have replied. (Captive market for sure - no option except for the lucky few)
The T2 system is now borked because a huge amount of players are skilled enough now to fly HACS and want one. The whole T2 system was based around a lot less players than are now in game. So what do CCP need to do?
1 / Nothing? (f**k you - unless you can afford the hundreds of millions and the wait for an HAC? )
2 / Reseeed inactive BPOs?
3 / Seed new BPOs (see above)?
4 / create a real chance to reverse engineer ships or BPCs?
Id hope anything except 1.
Anyone who tries to compare this situation with an RL economic model doesnt know squat about politics. Their company would be first in line to be privatized.
Is this really fair to the producers that have built their economy on building and selling these ships? Prices will drop to nothing with your suggestions.
I think ccp want the market to work this way. At least ive never seen a single post where they say they are thinking about changing it.
--- "Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
Mack Dorgeans
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Posted - 2006.04.14 19:51:00 -
[48]
If anyone doubts the power of supply and demand, check out the market for command ships. My corp has sold or traded 48 of the 50 Astartes we have produced so far. I won the BPO on Dec. 20, but had to learn Cruiser Construction 5. While I was doing that and also for a short time later when we had some overstock, I added points of ME to the BPO. Otherwise, it's been in constant production. We've done a good job at advertising and adding extras (T2 blasters and ammo) to our Astarte packages, so we've mostly been able to sell ships competitively. Some of my competitors haven't had so much success. Why?
Look at the prices on an Astarte or Eos compared to a Deimos or Ishtar. They are barely above the HAC prices, and in some cases, they are actually sold for LESS. This is because most of the BPOs have yet to be sold to alliances who are producing most ships for their own members, and also the relatively low percentage of the population who have been able to train up the skills needed to fly command ships.
The simple fact is the supply of HACs does not meet the demand, whereas the supply of command ships is presently greater than the demand, or at best roughly equal at times. A HAC costs maybe 40 mil to produce, tops, vs. up to 80 mil for a command ship. Yes, component prices are up as a result of the greater demand for them with all the new T2 BPOs that were seeded, but if that were the only factor, command ship prices would be much higher than HACs.
Another thing affecting command ship prices is the estimated value in the eyes of prospective buyers. Even though they cost twice as much to build as a HAC, they aren't deemed twice as good in battle.
As it stands now, HACs are the best combat ships for the skill time and cost, and unless that changes, or supply increases, I don't see prices going down anytime soon.
-------------------
CEO, Lead Scientist Camelot Innovations
Got Science? Seeking interns or experienced pros in research, mining, and production disciplines. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 19:59:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: HippoKing Look, i know prices have gone up. What i don't understand is WHY shouldn't they be high?
prahaps you should tell us why they SHOULD be so high?
tech 2 was never supposed to be common. it was supposed to be an edge, the elite. You pay a premium for that extra bit of performance. It should be advantage, not the standard.
I don't want to see everyone flying HACs, and i want it to be a kick in the nads to lose one
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Violent Sky
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Posted - 2006.04.14 20:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jim McGregor I think ccp want the market to work this way. At least ive never seen a single post where they say they are thinking about changing it.
From Oveur's Dev Blog from 10 Feb. 2006:
Quote: However it's accomplished, the goal is to enable you to get limited rewards - Limited-Run Blueprint Copies - instead of waiting for some jackpot. It's your work and dedication which gets you results, not the draw of the lottery. I'm not saying that the lottery will vanish, though - some form of lottery will probably still be in play.
So they do intend to implement something, its just not slated for arrival until Kali.
Personally, and I have suggested this before, I think they should allow more than one factory slot to work from a Blueprint. Make it skill based. Hopefully it wouldn't totally nerf the HAC prices, would allow the BP holders to keep making ships and isk (if they could keep up supply of building materials) rather than just handing BPs off to peeps that might not be able to build from em anyway.
But until CCP does make a change, the only solution that I see for HAC prices, is for peeps to STOP BUYING THEM or don't complain about it.
And btw, there is no such thing as 'price gouging.' Something is worth what someone will pay for it.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.04.14 21:03:00 -
[51]
Keep up the whines and one day you'd be lucky to even spot one on market/escrow. _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.04.14 21:08:00 -
[52]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: HippoKing Look, i know prices have gone up. What i don't understand is WHY shouldn't they be high?
prahaps you should tell us why they SHOULD be so high?
tech 2 was never supposed to be common. it was supposed to be an edge, the elite. You pay a premium for that extra bit of performance. It should be advantage, not the standard.
I don't want to see everyone flying HACs, and i want it to be a kick in the nads to lose one
prove it. afaik, you weren't even playing when t2 was introduced.
______________________________________________________ Account Cancelled |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.14 21:11:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sarmaul prove it. afaik, you weren't even playing when t2 was introduced.
well, thats true, but t2 wasn't meant to be common was the impression i always got. as for proof... err... only 20 HAC BPOs per ship?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Audri Fisher
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Posted - 2006.04.14 21:45:00 -
[54]
I think the basic issue is that the supply/demand thing is flawed.
In a true supply/demand system, manufactures can always add manufactuing capability. This is simply not true in Eve currently.
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Zero35
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Posted - 2006.04.14 22:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: franny look, it's our weekly rant about HAC price... where the F is my horse?
ahh there it is
now thats funny
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.04.15 00:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Khatred Keep up the whines and one day you'd be lucky to even spot one on market/escrow.
^^ the man has spoken. Dont want to annoy him further, else he makes all HACs selling from 400M and above...
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
MajorPMS
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Posted - 2006.04.15 00:19:00 -
[57]
I logged in one day to see OMG tech BCU !! on escrow. They didnt exist and then they did, BPO's handed out overnight , no game update or expansion , they just seeded them out of the blue randomly.
Why cant they do this with HAC BPO's , just release 2 of eatch of the HAC bpo . Wait a month or 2 , see where the prices fall . Back down to 100mil like they should be? ok stop , dont release anymore . Wow that was easy , ye ?
Honestly ive had both my cerbs blown up , havnt flown one in 2 months now. just cant afford it. This leaves me with alot of time I spent on cruiser V and the other skills , but I didnt want to fly the caracal and moa the last couple months after it took so long to do my skills for a "nice" ship .
I've resorted to scamming escrow to afford a new ship, Im not very good at it tho .
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2006.04.15 01:36:00 -
[58]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sarmaul prove it. afaik, you weren't even playing when t2 was introduced.
well, thats true, but t2 wasn't meant to be common was the impression i always got. as for proof... err... only 20 HAC BPOs per ship?
The game also increased in size faster than predictions...when HACs where first launched we were lucky to break 8-9k at peak hours...now what its 25 k at peak?
If 20 BPOs where considered enuff to keep them for those that put the time in whats the number of prints (BPOs&BPCs) to keep the original ratio intact?
Yes I fly HACs, and no I am not complaining about the price... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.17 16:10:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Look retard.
Naga, TRUST, and all the other T2 ship producers are charging moderate prices for the ships. Its the ******* reselling players that are marking up the market. If you want a fair price, put an order in with the big producing alliances, dont go to the market.
I tried contacting All the "listed" builder for a vaga for thier prices and if they had any other options avaiable and "no" one replied. So my only option is the Market. I tried contacting them to get a ship but I'm not going to jump through hoops just so they can make more isk with little effort.
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Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.04.17 16:15:00 -
[60]
Because they can. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Imperial Baddour I just lost my ship, and dont feel like playing anymore!
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monkeyking1
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Posted - 2006.04.17 16:20:00 -
[61]
Tbh hacs are prices we are willing to pay so ppl should stop whining about prices as i for 1 am still willing to pay 200mil for my zealot
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:17:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jet Collins
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Look retard.
Naga, TRUST, and all the other T2 ship producers are charging moderate prices for the ships. Its the ******* reselling players that are marking up the market. If you want a fair price, put an order in with the big producing alliances, dont go to the market.
I tried contacting All the "listed" builder for a vaga for thier prices and if they had any other options avaiable and "no" one replied. So my only option is the Market. I tried contacting them to get a ship but I'm not going to jump through hoops just so they can make more isk with little effort.
Interesting. I personally would have suggested going to their well publicised web sites and actually looked at the price list there... maybe even ordered one.
Nah, you're right, way too much trouble...
Patch day always brings out the same 2 types of people. 1: "I'm an IT expert in RL, and they have done this all wrong" type. 2: "I'm a paying customer, fix it immediately or I quit" type. |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:22:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Interesting. I personally would have suggested going to their well publicised web sites and actually looked at the price list there... maybe even ordered one.
Nah, you're right, way too much trouble...
I recal going to Naga and Star websites. Thanks how I got the contacts. No responce. As for place to order if I saw a place to order or a price that they are selling at I probably would have. So either thier was no place to order, I was on some other random sight of thiers, or I didn't want to make an order because thier wasn't enough information ie price location or what not.
But thanks.
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:29:00 -
[64]
I edited my post evidently while you were typing yours. Sorry about that.
If you aren't sure where to order, a question to them in the appropriate portion of this forum should recieve response if nothing else. Patch day always brings out the same 2 types of people. 1: "I'm an IT expert in RL, and they have done this all wrong" type. 2: "I'm a paying customer, fix it immediately or I quit" type. |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:31:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 17/04/2006 17:33:45 Thanks Ranger. I guess I just never make posts in the right place right time or they just don't like the way I request I have also stated in my WTB orders that I am willing to wait a long time
*Jet thinks he has been very accomidating in his requests ohh well .
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:32:00 -
[66]
Most large manufacturers have more than one of those prints in production. Also, not all people wish to reveal to the public at large who they are for various reasons. Patch day always brings out the same 2 types of people. 1: "I'm an IT expert in RL, and they have done this all wrong" type. 2: "I'm a paying customer, fix it immediately or I quit" type. |
Tehyarec
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:51:00 -
[67]
Just as a side note... it's funny how the people who say that rules and comparisons between social interaction and responsibilites between a MMO and real life don't just hold up (thus trying to defend griefing) then go on to defend HAC's and other T2 stuff's prices on the premises of real-life-like supply and demand example.
As for me, I don't think I'll be shelling out 200mil for a HAC any time soon, even when I'll have the skills. 20+mil for Enyo? Yeah. Whatever Eris goes for? Maybe, if I get the skills. 200mil for Astarte? Yeah, if I get the skills. Are the prices sane, however? Not really.
Then again just looking at the prices for faction ships, I guess it seems like CCP likes the high prices. Like some others, I'm a bit worried if the demand with the rising player amounts will in the end become so great compared to supply that you simply can't get a ship.
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Shadow Mancer
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Posted - 2006.04.17 17:52:00 -
[68]
seriously if people can't afford one just because they are tight as*** than they shouldn't be playing with Elite ships. Now, for u poor souls that can't fly a techII Cruiser, wait till Test Server gets back up, u can get them there, last time I saw 100K units of vagabonds, munnins, zealots ...ect ect on open market at 100 ISK each.
Now u won't complain hey?
Long Live Warriors |
Eleis Machuron
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Posted - 2006.04.17 18:40:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
3) EvE seems to be suffering from inflation average wallets are 50mil + and the market has adjusted accordingly
I'm still interested in seeing hard evidence of this. In the regions I've been monitoring, some items (HAS, AS) are increasing steadily in sale price while others (+3 implants, Interdictors) are decreasing.
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.04.17 22:57:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Al Thorr on 17/04/2006 22:57:50 Well I think we should be thankful that we only get the "High price Hac" whines weekly. When / If ccp tweak the demand situation its going to be the " Wahh Cant insure my Hac "Whine as more people will be losing them.
Oooh cant wait
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Khatred
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Posted - 2006.04.17 23:00:00 -
[71]
Who summoned me? _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
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