Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3121
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 22:52:00 -
[91] - Quote
Shandir wrote:You would have to make a special exception for primarily CONCORD based kills, you don't want gankers shooting friends to scrape bounties when they die to suicide ganks.
What kind of exception? The whole point of a bounty system is to encourage other people to shoot at the guy who committed a crime against you. Suicide Gankers will be the most likely candidates. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 22:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
I mean - normally when CONCORD gets a kill, any player who so attacked the victim (of CONCORD's attack) gets kill credit. They should not get bounty for this kill (since CONCORD did all the work), as it would be easy for a friendly to use an agressive mod to ensure they got bounty prize on the kill, helping offset the cost of their own ganks with bounty prizes. |
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 17:26:00 -
[93] - Quote
That would be easy enough to reconcile I'm sure. Besides, I've never go the kill credit for killing a player whilst they're getting ganked by concord and I've definitely shot at people getting concorded before. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
303
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 13:55:00 -
[94] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I just think the potential for griefing really isn't a problem. People would game the system the instant it went live - building in limits is the *only* way to prevent that - transferable kill rights /tied to status set by whoever sets the contract is a specific fix to the major problem with bounties now.
They are worthless.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Baaldor
Sin Factory Anarchy Unlimited
64
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 18:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Xen Solarus wrote: I've got a whole list of people i'd have put a bounty on, if the system wasn't broken like it is currently. If this proposal were to be accepted I'd be motivated to fix my sec pretty quickly
Then you would miss out on a part of the game that would actually be somewhat fun......
I guess you could always do something else like rat, grind roids, hump pos, shot pos, bot missions and incursions or any other heart pounding internet spaceship activity.. |
Mike712
BattleClinic
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 12:02:00 -
[96] - Quote
My thoughts on the matter.
- Firstly bounty payouts must be payed when a ship is destroyed not just a pod, I think that is something most people agree needs changing.
- Secondly the payout needs to be in line with the ship loss up to a maximum of the bounty set and insurance payouts reduced by the value of the bounty so it is not ever profitable to collect your own bounty with an alt or friendly 3rd party.
Those 2 things have to happen before any other changes to fix the most broken part of the system.
I agree that you should be able to set a bounty when you acquire kill rights from an unlawful kill regardless of the players sec status.
Accepting a bounty should transfer kill rights, to do so should cost a small % of the targets bounty and give you kill rights for 7 days.
Bounties should be acceptable for yourself, your corp or an allinace.
If someone else collects the bounty within those 7 days you lose the kill rights and your bounty acceptance fee is refunded.
Pretty simple but really all that needs to be done. Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team
|
Magnus Orin
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
Supported.
Good idea to solve a long standing problem. If CCP wants to advertise Bounty Hunting as a legitimate career path in Eve, they best make it one. These changes would be a good move in that direction.
|
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
159
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 19:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
Bump and +1
I've long supported the idea of a contract system for bounty hunters, putting the burden of preventing exploitation on the player just like the market and trade contracts do. Good to see it supported by CSM and combined with the "asset destruction" suggestion as well, the two ideas work well together. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
369
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 20:05:00 -
[99] - Quote
Shamelessly putting here my previously ignored proposal... My take on bounty hunting, with a cool name for it:
EVE: Retaliation
Proposal 1: "transferable kill rights". Sbdy shot you down, you can transfer the kill rights to sbdy else to take care of the agressor, for a price.
The kill rights can be transfered to as many undertakers as you want -but bounty hunters taking them can't transfer them again. Why unlimited transfers? To prevent the agressors from stealing the rights from the victim with a bounty hunter alt.
Proposal 2: "The price of destruction". Bounties are claimed by destroying the agressor's stuff, not necessarily killing him
Up to twice the inflicted loss, the reward is half the cost of the destroyed stuff. Practical case: they blow your hulk, you lose 300 million, so you pay 300 million for sbdy to destroy 600 million worth of agressor's stuff. Payment is due upon the destruction of stuff, no kill, no gain.
Proposal 3: "it sucks to be friends". Hirers can extend kill rights to any other target being hunted and who belongs to the target's corporation.
Practical case: Captain Scum got a bounty on his head and is in the same corporation as Vicious Ganker, who also got a bounty on his head. By getting a kill right on Captain Scum, Miner Malone can also ask the bounty hunters to target Vicious Ganker even if Vicious Ganker never did anything to Miner Malone. The kill rights stand even if Vicious Ganker leaves the corporation.
Proposal 4: "you will never be alone". Bounty hunters on duty can track their targets via two new skills.
Skill one: network interaction. Allows access to the records of gates and stations, so whenever a target jumps or docks, the bounty hunter can read a track record about it. The distance and time span of track records varies with skill, up to a whole Faction's space and the last 5 days.
Practical case: with Network Interaction V, a bounty hunter can read the records of every jump and dock carried out by Captain Scum in (say) Minmatarr space for the last 5 days.
The access would have a CONCORD fee, so any hirer should pay some expenses to the bounty hunter.
Skill two: Navsat interaction. Allows access to the local satellite network so whenever the prey shows in a local chat, if even for 0.5 seconds while leaving a station, the bounty hunter knows his exact location. In order to do so the bounty hunter must deploy combat probes, which will interact wiht navsats and tell where exactly was seen the target.
Practical case: Captain Scum is in a safe spot in a lowsec sytem. Accidentally trips off his cloak and then recloaks. Five days later, a bounty hunter interacts with the navsats and learns of the last known location of Captain Scum... bounty hunter jumps in and he's AFK cloaked. G-bye Captain Scum!
This skill is so powerful that it must be expensive, say, 30 days to level 5. Of course, bounty hunters only can track targets upon which they got a kill right from a hirer.
Summary:
- unlimitedly transferable kill rights; if a hirer is fillthy rich and can throw 20 hunters on the agressor, let the agressor have it (picking filthy rich traders/industrialists sucks) - pay for destroying the target's stuff, not merely kill him once. No longer self-killing for the bounty unless you're up to losing twice the reward. - any other target in the target's corporation can be punished too. If you gang together against bounty hunters, bounty hunters can gang together against you. - bounty hunters can track the last moves of the target via stargates and stations. It sucks to be hunted. - bounty hunters can pinpoint the last moves of the target via the target's appearences in local chat. It sucks a lot to be hunted. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:16:00 -
[100] - Quote
Bump. For those who think this is a good idea, and that this specific version of this idea is the best - go EVEmail the CSM rep you voted for (assuming they got in) and make sure that they are aware this is how you would like bounty hunting to work, and that this is an important change for you. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3225
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 19:32:00 -
[101] - Quote
Shandir wrote:Bump. For those who think this is a good idea, and that this specific version of this idea is the best - go EVEmail the CSM rep you voted for (assuming they got in) and make sure that they are aware this is how you would like bounty hunting to work, and that this is an important change for you.
Dawwww GÖÑ Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Psichotic
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 14:57:00 -
[102] - Quote
Well thought out. Works for me. Bump.
|
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 13:19:00 -
[103] - Quote
Just a small idea to this.
Cause this is based on killrights so as some people know someone will want to add bounties to people with no killrights on them so how about if you could buy killright and add you bounty to it from concord.
Buying more killrights against the same player would be more costly like 2 times more every time. And yes this should be insane expensive to players like 500mil / killright (for the first one) plus bounty. This would be for those that you realy realy hate someone and want them to suffer for their deeds.
Just an idea.
The high and increased cost would limit griefing and so on.
But I still like the base idea anyways XD |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3320
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 14:04:00 -
[104] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Just a small idea to this.
Cause this is based on killrights so as some people know someone will want to add bounties to people with no killrights on them so how about if you could buy killright and add you bounty to it from concord.
Buying more killrights against the same player would be more costly like 2 times more every time. And yes this should be insane expensive to players like 500mil / killright (for the first one) plus bounty. This would be for those that you realy realy hate someone and want them to suffer for their deeds.
Just an idea.
The high and increased cost would limit griefing and so on.
But I still like the base idea anyways XD
500 mill isn't nearly enough - people will pay that in a heartbeat to be able to get killrights on a jump freighter pilot for instance. It's just too open to exploitation IMO. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Psichotic
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 21:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:
500 mill isn't nearly enough - people will pay that in a heartbeat to be able to get killrights on a jump freighter pilot for instance. It's just too open to exploitation IMO.
I agree. Don't make it more complex than it has to be. Just make killrights transferable via contracts that don't payout more than the cost of the kill.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
468
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 22:02:00 -
[106] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Just a small idea to this.
Cause this is based on killrights so as some people know someone will want to add bounties to people with no killrights on them so how about if you could buy killright and add you bounty to it from concord.
Buying more killrights against the same player would be more costly like 2 times more every time. And yes this should be insane expensive to players like 500mil / killright (for the first one) plus bounty. This would be for those that you realy realy hate someone and want them to suffer for their deeds.
Just an idea.
The high and increased cost would limit griefing and so on.
But I still like the base idea anyways XD
Completely no. Killrights are issued on a chracter and granted to another. They may be granted/transferred to different characters, but under no circumstance they could be issued to people who didn't calle don themsevles with their unlawful actions.
Bounty hunting is a (utterly useless and broken) retaliation system, not another venue for free griefing (as if EVE needed any more of those!) EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Tehg Rhind
Atlantic Innovations
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.14 09:37:00 -
[107] - Quote
I (and some others) have mentioned how a hull-cost based payout could work really well. I wrote an autistically long post about this a couple years ago The TLDR (because it really is too long) is that low-sec is actually a failed ecosystem, and on it's own increasing rewards will never work without introducing another predator species. And the way to do that is to include this kind of a bounty system.
It's been a while since I've thought about this, and I doubt I agree with everything I wrote in that post. I know one issue I've thought of since then is that (with this system) there is very little impetus to add a bounty to someone if they already have one that is substantially high enough. But I don't know if there is a way around that, or if it's even a problem.
There's also a part of me that wonders if the bounties couldn't be placed on the corporation as a whole, instead of just on the pilots. |
Victor BlueStone
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 04:46:00 -
[108] - Quote
I haven't read the whole thread. Responding to OP. I read your proposal and I find that you underestimate the ability of pilots to be stubborn. If I go by your system I will buy the contract and contact perp. We will split the profits as I pop him in his noob ship 1000x to collect the bounty. So I gotta grind a little to get all the cash! The system of tying what the hunted flies and has in his head goes down the drain. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3338
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 08:26:00 -
[109] - Quote
Victor BlueStone wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Responding to OP. I read your proposal and I find that you underestimate the ability of pilots to be stubborn. If I go by your system I will buy the contract and contact perp. We will split the profits as I pop him in his noob ship 1000x to collect the bounty. So I gotta grind a little to get all the cash! The system of tying what the hunted flies and has in his head goes down the drain.
Pretty much the whole proposal - and the following thread - is about trying to make your doing this as difficult as possible, and me defending the consequent complexity on this basis.
I don't think there's any way to make it completely impossible to do that, but I have tried to make it so that you'll need to put in some real effort to do so. You'd need to join (or get an alt into) the bounty corp that gets the contract, or else get +ve standings to the guy issuing the contract. That means that you or your alt would need some kind of working relationship with other players (either exactly the right bounty corp or you managed to infiltrate the guys you ganked) to achieve the result you're after. If you've been foresighted or socially skilled enough to achieve this then I think that you will have earned your right to spend your some of your time and ISK "scraping off" the bounty placed upon you. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
39
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 08:46:00 -
[110] - Quote
if this system has been broken or not 'working as intended' for years then why hasn't the past or present csm's or even ccp done anything about it
i agree with OP lets just put this to the front pile lets get this pushed through huh? |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3338
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 08:52:00 -
[111] - Quote
killorbekilled TBE wrote:if this system has been broken or not 'working as intended' for years then why hasn't the past or present csm's or even ccp done anything about it
i agree with OP lets just put this to the front pile lets get this pushed through
If I recall correctly, every single CSM has asked CCP to rework the bounty system.
CCP's answer, when they troubled to give one, has been that the tangled and undocumented state of Crimewatch (EVE's standings and aggression management system) basically made it an impossible job. Per this year's fanfest presentation, CCP are finally reworking Crimewatch, which gives us an opportunity to get some kind of bounty hunting system introduced that isn't merely a cruel joke on the new and ignorant player. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 09:16:00 -
[112] - Quote
Bienator II wrote: no restrictions are needed.
the single mandatory requirement is: damage done - insurance > payout
This ^^
Anything else is unnecessarily restrictive. The proposal linked below is better and simpler.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3338
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 09:17:00 -
[113] - Quote
So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.15 09:39:00 -
[114] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms.
Skill Reading and Comprehension to level 1. Once you have skilled that up, read the link I posted.
This thread is a terrible idea. Bounties as a necessity would make them almost as useless as they are now.
Seeing as you can't read properly, allow me to explain in moron terms. Percentage of damage done in ISK minus insurance, would be payed to the killer and deducted (not negating) from the person's total bounty. If your hypothetical person with with 500m bounty was killed and the killer received 50m ISK, their new bounty would be 450m.
Give up on this ridiculous idea and start supporting the other bounty thread, the one that has been written and rewritten over and over and always gets lots and lots of support. Linked below (For emphasis).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
338
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:13:00 -
[115] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Malcanis wrote:So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms. Skill Reading and Comprehension to level 1. Once you have skilled that up, read the link I posted. This thread is a terrible idea. Killrights as a necessity would make bounties almost as useless as they are now. Seeing as you can't read properly, allow me to explain in moron terms. Percentage of damage done in ISK minus insurance, would be payed to the killer and deducted (not negating) from the person's total bounty. If your hypothetical person with with 500m bounty was killed and the killer received 50m ISK, their new bounty would be 450m. Give up on this ridiculous idea and start supporting the other bounty thread, the one that has been written and rewritten over and over and always gets lots and lots of support. Linked below (For emphasis). https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread Your insulting post does *exactly* what he says. If you think that *simple* idea will actually encourage bounty hunting, you're delusional.
Malcanis' idea works within the existing structure of bounties and killrights to craft a reasonable "bounty" system in Eve. Why don't you inject "Reading and Comprehension"...
let alone train it.....
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3352
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 17:40:00 -
[116] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Malcanis wrote:So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms. Skill Reading and Comprehension to level 1. Once you have skilled that up, read the link I posted. This thread is a terrible idea. Killrights as a necessity would make bounties almost as useless as they are now. Seeing as you can't read properly, allow me to explain in moron terms. Percentage of damage done in ISK minus insurance, would be payed to the killer and deducted (not negating) from the person's total bounty. If your hypothetical person with with 500m bounty was killed and the killer received 50m ISK, their new bounty would be 450m. Give up on this ridiculous idea and start supporting the other bounty thread, the one that has been written and rewritten over and over and always gets lots and lots of support. Linked below (For emphasis). https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread
I read it. I am utterly opposed to insurance payouts being stolen and used for bounty payments, for exactly the reason I said earlier: the idea is to promote in-space PvP, not station tanking. Additionally, without a killright, a bounty is almost meaningless: The perp can hide in hi-sec, and if you suicide to attack him, you don't get an insurance payment on your ship. Not very enticing.
Transferrable killrights are so obviously the correct answer that I hardly know how to explain something so clear and simple to someone who claims not to understand. It's not even that complex a concept. All that "complexity" is actually additional flexibility in how contracts can be assigned; using the contract system enables new modes of player interaction and creating a valid bounty hunting profession in EVE for the first time. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3354
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 18:10:00 -
[117] - Quote
Just so we're clear: I deeply believe consequences for player actions should always and primarily come from other players. The point of a bounty system in my worldview isn't to STOP CRIME!!! but to promote gameplay. 3rd party punitive mechanics like taking ship insurance are regressive, short0sighted and wrong headed. It's not for CCP to say that this or that player lifestyle is "wrong" and should be "punished", it should purely be the perogative of players to do so; it is CCPs place merely to give them effective and balanced tools to do so. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
GoatChops
The Silhouette Group
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 02:07:00 -
[118] - Quote
@Malcanis
I really like your OP, however I have two questions:
1. Would the hunted party be made aware of the fact that a bounty contract has been placed/accepted on them?
2. Would the hunted party be able to veiw who has accepted the contract on them? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3356
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 06:48:00 -
[119] - Quote
GoatChops wrote:@Malcanis
I really like your OP, however I have two questions:
1. Would the hunted party be made aware of the fact that a bounty contract has been placed/accepted on them?
2. Would the hunted party be able to veiw who has accepted the contract on them?
I don't immediately see why the hunted party should be able to know either of those things. I'd be interested to hear the case for them to if you have one. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 06:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Bounty hunting is a (utterly useless and broken) retaliation system, not another venue for free griefing (as if EVE needed any more of those!)
Lets say player X decided to invite an enemy fleet into the middle of your fleet consting you the loss of your whole fleet? Does that not require retaliation?
Anyhow it was just an idea and make a point that there are deeds done in the game that need retaliation. Also the 500mil was just an example.
And I would also like to know will the player whos head is on the plate recieve any information who can shoot at him. Or will it be more like "now you died and don't even know what hit you"
Should the bountyhunters at least be "flagged" with a icon like a green skull or something so that you know who they are when you see them on the gate. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |