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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Capqu
Broski North
411
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Posted - 2014.02.25 18:07:00 -
[271] - Quote
Is the 125% damage bonus coded the same as a 100% damage bonus and a 25% bonus? or is it worse? seems worse to me since the old bonus effectively gave dmg * 2 * 1.25 where as the new bonus gives dmg * 2.25
Succubus really doesn't need a damage nerf http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
679
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:07:00 -
[272] - Quote
Everything seems reasonable to me until I get this this bit...
CCP Rise wrote: Role Bonus: 300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints
... which just seems icky.
I would prefer to see 5 light drones fielded with a 150% modifier to drone HP and damage, which is roughly the same effect but somewhat more elegant and in keeping existing mechanics.
I am interested as to the reason for choosing a limited number of drones with a very high multiplier (which seems difficult to justify in any reasonable narrative). If it was because of concerns about server performance, I would argue that these concerns are unwarranted.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2801
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:08:00 -
[273] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Ok after a bit of thinking, my thoughts
The succubus has really dumb bonuses. 7.5% lets it have blaster tracking with glatlings.. so thats not great.
The AB bonus lets it.. scram kite i guess? But it doesn't have a range bonus so that won't really work that well. Tracking bonuses are really really weak and should be higher than 7.5% on a frigate to be useful. All in all i think its pretty bad. I'm thinking it might work better with beams.
Oh god. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:08:00 -
[274] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:A couple more clarifications:
I said 'old nos' in the OP but that can be a bit confusing considering there has been a few different versions. The description provided by bobfrommarketing (I think thats who it was) is very accurate - "Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level". So, it will NOT continue to generate cap when your target is empty, it just doesn't have the same limitation has normal nos where you must have less cap than your target. It's been mentioned that the missile damage bonus on the Worm doesn't make sense as a Gallente bonus and should be on the role bonus. I agree that it would be ideal to have it that way in terms of flavor but giving a 60% per level bonus would mean that the ship was basically unusable until you had Gallente Frigate 5 and we really don't like that. And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places. I can confirm that 10mn AB Succbus is gross, it's 5k/sec or something before links. We are ok with this. In the post I quoted above I just meant to highlight that we are not limited to 300% for the other Guristas ships, but again, let's talk about those when we get to them. Oh and on the Succubus, while we may make small changes to cap for Sansha in general, it is likely that cap will continue to be one of the larger weaknesses. The Succubus has very solid cap stats already and we don't want to use up a bonus to make it even better. If the other advantages the ship offers don't outweigh the cap difficulty we will make a change to something. what exactly is the reasoning behind the gurista thing? why do you not just go with something more normal, like 75 bay, 25 bandwidth, and either a 100% or 200% drone damage/hp bonus? |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
247
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:08:00 -
[275] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I can confirm that 10mn AB Succbus is gross, it's 5k/sec or something before links. We are ok with this. *Sheds manly tears. I love you Rise. |
Little Blackjack
Money Savers Inc
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:08:00 -
[276] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Jasen Harper wrote:As a "perfect" Tachmare pilot, I would like to find out if I am going to be losing 25% of my turret damage.
I was never real good at math so how does this stack with 100% hull bonus and how might this (trading turret damage bonus with AB speed bonus) effect that? You will have to wait for the Battleship thread to know for sure, and I'm not past internal review steps with those yet so I don't even know, but I can say that there is no chance of you losing 25% of your DPS. That would be ridiculous.
signed. The oposite is needed. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2070
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:09:00 -
[277] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote: How is the AB bonus that much inherently better than the MWD bonus?
Uses less capacitor, does not turn off when scrammed, "sig radius bonus" of 100% instead of 50%.
The second one is huge. Usually the inherent penalty for zooming into a target quickly to get a hard point scram is that when you get scrammed you're screwed (without using fitting slots and CPU/Grid on a second prop mod). Succabus will be able to do that. AND because of web range bonus it will be able to catch stuff more quickly and more easily deagress outside of scram range of the target.
The opponent with AB/Web/Scram will not be able to hold down a Succabus with AB/Web/Scram because the Succabus will be a hell of a lot faster. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
228
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:09:00 -
[278] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Everything seems reasonable to me until I get this this bit... CCP Rise wrote: Role Bonus: 300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints
... which just seems icky. I would prefer to see 5 light drones fielded with a 150% modifier to drone HP and damage, which is roughly the same effect but somewhat more elegant and in keeping existing mechanics. I am interested as to the reason for choosing a limited number of drones with a very high multiplier (which seems difficult to justify in any reasonable narrative). If it was because of concerns about server performance, I would argue that these concerns are unwarranted.
The fact that your flight will do the equivalent damage of 8 drones until an equivalent of 4 of them are killed eludes you? Or the fact that your frigate stores now the equivalent of 20 scout drones? |
Little Blackjack
Money Savers Inc
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:10:00 -
[279] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Jasen Harper wrote:As a "perfect" Tachmare pilot, I would like to find out if I am going to be losing 25% of my turret damage.
I was never real good at math so how does this stack with 100% hull bonus and how might this (trading turret damage bonus with AB speed bonus) effect that? You will have to wait for the Battleship thread to know for sure, and I'm not past internal review steps with those yet so I don't even know, but I can say that there is no chance of you losing 25% of your DPS. That would be ridiculous. will the NM have its 20th slot? and at least 6 turrets?
No. 300% on lasers role bonus. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
156
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:11:00 -
[280] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:as people have pointed, the sansha need something to cover the capacitor problems, having shields+lazors+AB seems to be suicide, you could give it a bonus to laser cap consumption, or shield boosting amount, even a shield boost capacitor reduction, something that i've never heard in any other ship.
Isn't that what the NOS bonus is supposed to do?
SANSHAS no blood raiders |
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Connor Frost
Transcendent Innovations Incorporated The.Spanish.Inquisition
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:13:00 -
[281] - Quote
First I will state that the Rattlesnake is hands down my favorite ship in the game. That goes for PVP and PVE and I feel like the drone number loss is going to be a significant disadvantage. Even given the increased HP on drones there are fewer drones for players and NPCs to have to target at kill. Its a pain to use Drones in PVE as it is and this seems to only make it worse.
I may be biased cause I love the rattle how it is and prefer minor tweaks over larger changes. |
Rainbow Eyes
Sora no Otoshimano
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:15:00 -
[282] - Quote
Cruor looks either as kiter or scramrange. If he has a bonus to range web`s, Cruor can`t fulfill bonus neut/vampires.
Logicaly so: scramrange: bonus to Web effectiveness and vampire/neutralizer effectiveness, disraptor range: bonus to range web`s and vampires/neut, BUT far beyond range of scram!!! Range of web`s and vampire must be equal, i think 17-20km looks good. |
Little Blackjack
Money Savers Inc
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:16:00 -
[283] - Quote
As for the "special feature", instead of adding 100% AB bonus, you could make a Sansha imune to part of the webs, e.g.
SUCCUBUS: 10% (or 15%) reduction per level of enemy webs
Means, if you are being webbed 90%, this web is effective only 45% (or 23%) with Level V.
This avoids overpowered/overspeeded sansha boats when not webbed but gives a nice add on if webbed. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
157
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:20:00 -
[284] - Quote
other idea for the guristas:
gallente bonus: +1 aditional drone per lvl or 20% damage and hitpoints
caldari bonus: 4% to all shield resistances
role bonus: 100% missile max velocity and damage
notes: give the gila and the worm the same insane buffer that the rattlesnake gets, i mean, for example, the worm's shield HP could get increased to be more than the T2 versions of the merlin |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
519
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:21:00 -
[285] - Quote
Little Blackjack wrote:As for the "special feature", instead of adding 100% AB bonus, you could make a Sansha imune to part of the webs, e.g.
SUCCUBUS: 10% (or 15%) reduction per level of enemy webs
Means, if you are being webbed 90%, this web is effective only 45% (or 23%) with Level V.
This avoids overpowered/overspeeded sansha boats when not webbed but gives a nice add on if webbed.
I like this, but for serpentis instead of the web thing. you get your range dictation so you can apply deeps, but you don't get enable ******** dread blapping and silly gatecamps all that. |
Little Blackjack
Money Savers Inc
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:21:00 -
[286] - Quote
Striscio wrote:Little Blackjack wrote:CompleteFailure wrote:elitatwo wrote: 2 light, 300% bonus = 8 effective (remember they already do 100% dmg before bonus :P) +1
Itago Gemulus wrote:2 drones +300% = 2+6 (2=100% ->300%=6) for a total of 8 effective drones It's 6 effective drones. You're not adding 300%, you're multiplying by 300% 300% = 3.00 2*3.00 = 6 learn2maths Your answer is the answer to "how much is 300% of 2 drones?". We are looking for "how much is 300% BONUS on 2 drones". 100% bonus (!) means you add the bonus to the 100% basics. If you salary receives 100% bonus, you will receive 10.000 Euro instead of base salary of 5.000 Euro. math is (5000 *100%) + (5000 *100%) = 10.000 300% Bonus (!) means (2 drones * 100%) + (2 drones * 300% bonus) = 2 drones * 400% = 8 drones In Before "that's 400%!". 25% bonus doesn't mean a ship deal 75% of it's normal damage.
Thats correct, it means 400% of total amount and at the same time 300% bonus. not that difficult, isnt it? 25% bonus means a ship deals 125% in total and is calculated 100%+(100%*25%)= 125% . In above example its 100%+(100%*300%) = 400% in total and 300% BONUS.
got it? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
651
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:22:00 -
[287] - Quote
Rainbow Eyes wrote:Cruor looks either as kiter or scramrange. If he has a bonus to range web`s, Cruor can`t fulfill bonus neut/vampires.
Logicaly so: scramrange: bonus to Web effectiveness and vampire/neutralizer effectiveness, disraptor range: bonus to range web`s and vampires/neut, BUT far beyond range of scram!!! Range of web`s and vampire must be equal, i think 17-20km looks good.
what would look nicer is
CRUOR
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 10% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness (-5%) 15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range
Minmatar Frigate Bonus: 15% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)
Slot layout: 4H, 3M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 50 PWG(-7), 140 CPU(+3) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-103) / 740(+83) / 580(-2) Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 470 / 205000 (-29375) / 2.24 (+.23) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330(+22) / 3.6 / 1003000 / 5.01s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km(+8km) / 760 / 6 Sensor strength: 12 Signature radius: 35 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
456
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:23:00 -
[288] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Succabus will be able to do that. AND because of web range bonus it will be able to catch stuff more quickly and more easily deagress outside of scram range of the target.
The opponent with AB/Web/Scram will not be able to hold down a Succabus with AB/Web/Scram because the Succabus will be a hell of a lot faster.
Web range bonus?
I mean I get it, its fast, but you still can't hit **** while being fast, and you still can't tank anything in comparison. At the end of the day you're both in range and slow'ish, but the Sansha boat can't tank because its slots are used by web/scram, and it can't hit/dps because lasers are outclassed at that range by everything else.
Yes its fast, but its at best, the most "meh" of the group. What role is this filling? |
Brad314
Prospero's Island
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:24:00 -
[289] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:A couple more clarifications:
I said 'old nos' in the OP but that can be a bit confusing considering there has been a few different versions. The description provided by bobfrommarketing (I think thats who it was) is very accurate - "Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level". So, it will NOT continue to generate cap when your target is empty, it just doesn't have the same limitation has normal nos where you must have less cap than your target. It's been mentioned that the missile damage bonus on the Worm doesn't make sense as a Gallente bonus and should be on the role bonus. I agree that it would be ideal to have it that way in terms of flavor but giving a 60% per level bonus would mean that the ship was basically unusable until you had Gallente Frigate 5 and we really don't like that. And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places. I can confirm that 10mn AB Succbus is gross, it's 5k/sec or something before links. We are ok with this. In the post I quoted above I just meant to highlight that we are not limited to 300% for the other Guristas ships, but again, let's talk about those when we get to them. Oh and on the Succubus, while we may make small changes to cap for Sansha in general, it is likely that cap will continue to be one of the larger weaknesses. The Succubus has very solid cap stats already and we don't want to use up a bonus to make it even better. If the other advantages the ship offers don't outweigh the cap difficulty we will make a change to something.
Why am I reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0#aid=P-gaT73muQs |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2070
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:25:00 -
[290] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:as people have pointed, the sansha need something to cover the capacitor problems, having shields+lazors+AB seems to be suicide, you could give it a bonus to laser cap consumption, or shield boosting amount, even a shield boost capacitor reduction, something that i've never heard in any other ship.
Isn't that what the NOS bonus is supposed to do? The nos bonus is on blood raiders. But 2 guns with a 125% damage bonus IS a cap use bonus, so I dont really see a problem. My bad, sorry. But with the reduction of one laser and the addition of a nos it seems feasible to keep the ship cap stable. An extra low slot allows you to put on a MAPC if you need power grid.
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1098
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:26:00 -
[291] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Succabus will be able to do that. AND because of web range bonus it will be able to catch stuff more quickly and more easily deagress outside of scram range of the target.
The opponent with AB/Web/Scram will not be able to hold down a Succabus with AB/Web/Scram because the Succabus will be a hell of a lot faster. Web range bonus? I mean I get it, its fast, but you still can't hit **** while being fast, and you still can't tank anything in comparison. At the end of the day you're both in range and slow'ish, but the Sansha boat can't tank because its slots are used by web/scram, and it can't hit/dps because lasers are outclassed at that range by everything else. Yes its fast, but its at best, the most "meh" of the group. What role is this filling?
What weapon system is doing more damage than small pulse lasers at the edge of scram range?
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
404
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:28:00 -
[292] - Quote
I will grant that the whole Sansha shipline has always struggled with cap issues...
But honestly, has no one ever heard of the ASB? Its not like active shield tanks are tied to capacitor anymore. They have not even fixed them so you can only fit one per hull yet like they did with the cruddy armor version.
That afterburner bonus makes this ship murderous. I am almost reminded of the days before they nerfed all the fun things you could do with speed mods back in the day. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2070
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:28:00 -
[293] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Succabus will be able to do that. AND because of web range bonus it will be able to catch stuff more quickly and more easily deagress outside of scram range of the target.
The opponent with AB/Web/Scram will not be able to hold down a Succabus with AB/Web/Scram because the Succabus will be a hell of a lot faster. Web range bonus? Sorry had mental breakdown and equated Succabus with Cruor. Still pretty powerful ship.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
679
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:29:00 -
[294] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Everything seems reasonable to me until I get this this bit... CCP Rise wrote: Role Bonus: 300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints
... which just seems icky. I would prefer to see 5 light drones fielded with a 150% modifier to drone HP and damage, which is roughly the same effect but somewhat more elegant and in keeping existing mechanics. I am interested as to the reason for choosing a limited number of drones with a very high multiplier (which seems difficult to justify in any reasonable narrative). If it was because of concerns about server performance, I would argue that these concerns are unwarranted. The fact that your flight will do the equivalent damage of 8 drones until an equivalent of 4 of them are killed eludes you? Or the fact that your frigate stores now the equivalent of 20 scout drones?
If I understand you correctly you are saying that the 2-drone solution creates a longer delay before drone damage is reduced by someone killing your drones, whereas in the 2-drone solution your damage is reduced more linearly.
None of this was lost on me (thank you for the unnecessary implied ad-hominem). I cannot see that it will have a significant effect on overall damage output when replacement drones are used during the course of a fight.
Mechanics (and sniping) aside, my position remains unanswered. In what narrative would the same drones suddenly become 4 times as strong merely by being controlled by a given ship?
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
157
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:29:00 -
[295] - Quote
sanshas:
caldari bonus: 10% reduction in shield booster capacitor need or 10% in laser capacitor need
amarr bonus: 7,5% laser optimal range and tracking
role bonus: 100% bonus to laser turret damage
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1098
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:30:00 -
[296] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Mechanics (and sniping) aside, my position remains unanswered. In what narrative would the same drones suddenly become 4 times as strong merely by being controlled by a given ship?
Enhanced drone damage control algorithms in dedicated drone subprocessors.
Or nanites. Or whatever, lore shouldnt dictate gameplay. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:32:00 -
[297] - Quote
the thing is clear, you want the guristas to be unique?, give them a drone control bonus, no other (non special edition) subcap can do that...... |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
679
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:34:00 -
[298] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Mechanics (and sniping) aside, my position remains unanswered. In what narrative would the same drones suddenly become 4 times as strong merely by being controlled by a given ship?
Enhanced drone damage control algorithms in dedicated drone subprocessors. Or nanites. Or whatever, lore shouldnt dictate gameplay.
fielding 2 super-drones over 5 normal ones that have the same overall performance does not significantly alter gameplay, so why not try to keep the narrative believable, if that's more pleasing to people like me?
If we do not take care over the story line we open ourselves up to the idea of space-wizard flying laser-eyed galactic sharks. I don't think I'd want to play that game. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2801
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:34:00 -
[299] - Quote
Hey, people crying about cap. You're the reason we have a crappy Navy Armageddon that no one uses. Oh god. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Umbrarum Paradisi
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:36:00 -
[300] - Quote
I'm really just plugging my own post, but I saw a few people saying things about a missile-centric caldari/minmarat faction (even Rise mentioned it), so I figured I'd show this here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325023&find=unread "A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams....is built in heaven."
-Jovian Proverb-á |
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