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Kaleeb	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:15:00 - [1] There are lots of ways to make isk in eve, you can npc/run missions, you can mine, you can trade, you can steal and you can pvp. This topic relates to the pvp side and when making money you can either ransom or collect loot. I`d like to know how many people agree that something should be dont about what gets destroyed when ships are destroyed. It seems to me that not enough of the decent items ships fit survive and only the tech I stuff is left. e.g. 2006.04.18 13:40 Victim: **** Alliance: None Corp: **** Destroyed: Raven System: ***** Security: 0.4 Involved parties: Name: Cerberix Security: -1.5 Alliance: None Corp: Angel Deep Corporation Ship: Armageddon Weapon: Berserker I Name: Kaleeb (laid the final blow) Security: -2.4 Alliance: None Corp: Angel Deep Corporation Ship: Dominix Weapon: 200mm Railgun II Destroyed items: Dark Blood Heavy Nosferatu Mjolnir Torpedo, Qty: 588 (Cargo) Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Juggernaut Torpedo, Qty: 16 (Cargo) Quantum Co-Processor I Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 1638 (Cargo) Thon's Modified Shield Boost Amplifier Invulnerability Field II Paradise Cruise Missile, Qty: 1465 (Cargo) Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster** Mjolnir Torpedo, Qty: 16 Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 22 Paradise Cruise Missile, Qty: 23 It grates when all thats left in the can is a pdu II and a couple of cruise launchers. This isnt a one of whine it has happened alot since i`ve been playing and I think it might encourage pvp more if people have a better chance of collecting nice items. What is everyone else's opinion on this? p.s ( If the guy who lost the raven reads this, pls know that the bounty you put on my head will be kept there until someone takes it, I have no intention of podding myself)
Kadrush	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:18:00 - [2] Podding yourself to get the bounty on your heard isnt illegal?
Kaleeb	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:22:00 - [3] no its not, but it is lame imo
SasRipper	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:22:00 - [4] Edited by: SasRipper on 18/04/2006 14:24:34 Yeah I have noticed this myself at the moment roughly 60% of fitting is destroyed and the 40 remaining percent is the crap generally tech 1 and badly named loot. I think the amount of items destroyed should be reduced to 25% and make the ratio of tech 2 loot being destroyed compared to tech 1 much more even. WTB Shadow Serpentis ion blaster cannons
Prant	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Kaleeb This isnt a one of whine it has happened alot since i`ve been playing and I think it might encourage pvp more if people have a better chance of collecting nice items. What is everyone else's opinion on this? It hadn't been obvious to me that we had a problem with not enough people doing pvp.
Kadrush	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:26:00 - [6] Damm, this is horrible, put a bounty on someone¦s head mean that you dream with the pleasure of see that guy been killed by bounty hunters, kill himself to get the reward should be considered exploit, or you shouldnt get the reward.
Kaleeb	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Kadrush Damm, this is horrible, put a bounty on someone¦s head mean that you dream with the pleasure of see that guy been killed by bounty hunters, kill himself to get the reward should be considered exploit, or you shouldnt get the reward. Sorry I wasnt very clear, the pirate cant pod himself but he can use an alt to collect the bounty or a friend.
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:28:00 - [8] I'd like to see items in general survive more, but i guess it's more realistic this way. It would be nice if there was a weighting towards the t2 and faction side of things tho :) sgb C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details.
Kaleeb	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:28:00 - [9] I think there are alot more industry based corps in eve than there are pvp corps, you only have to look at empire hub systems to see that.
Emsigma	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:29:00 - [10] Isn't hitpoints on T2 and faction items less than the ones on t1 items? Anyway I think it is absurd... just remember how many times you have killed haulers and all the zyd blows up and the lower ends survives and how seldom the opposite happens.
Boonaki	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:30:00 - [11] Anyone know how it works? I've seen hitpoints associated with each mod, does this have something to do with what's destroyed and what's not? signature removed - please email us if you want to know why - Oldmailman([email protected])
Zysco	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:30:00 - [12] Kaleeb joined angel deep \o/ Cya on ts New Petition Inc Vid
Hotice	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:30:00 - [13] Loot drop from dead player ship is random. You got a bad roll that is all. I've seen many good stuff drop from pvp fights. There is no point to increase loot drop since that will not increase pvp just more ganking. Consider there are already good amount of gate camping going on right now with the current loot drop system. If ccp increased it, there will be more of those gate camps poping up all over. Honestly, I don't think that is pvp since there most likely only one side fighting. Honestly, loot drop should decrease as number of ship hitting the same target increase. Why? Because the target ship took on more damage in larger area of the ship. This will actually reduce ganking and make more people go solo or hunt in small 2-3 men group. This will actually make people fight back and in turn more people want to try pvp. What is the point to try fight back against 5 to n++1 amount of people? When there is little to no chance, why should people bother? In short, loot system should stay the same. No change needed. You guys just need better luck that is all.
Kaleeb	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Hotice Loot drop from dead player ship is random. You got a bad roll that is all. I've seen many good stuff drop from pvp fights. There is no point to increase loot drop since that will not increase pvp just more ganking. Consider there are already good amount of gate camping going on right now with the current loot drop system. If ccp increased it, there will be more of those gate camps poping up all over. Honestly, I don't think that is pvp since there most likely only one side fighting. Honestly, loot drop should decrease as number of ship hitting the same target increase. Why? Because the target ship took on more damage in larger area of the ship. This will actually reduce ganking and make more people go solo or hunt in small 2-3 men group. This will actually make people fight back and in turn more people want to try pvp. What is the point to try fight back against 5 to n++1 amount of people? When there is little to no chance, why should people bother? In short, loot system should stay the same. No change needed. You guys just need better luck that is all. I agree with your point about the more people shooting the less should survive and maybe it would encourage groups of 1-3 roaming instead of 5-10. However as officer and faction gear is apparently better quality should it not have a better chance of surving? yeah drunk Angel Deep is turning out to be a great move and trepkos an excellent ceo and Kilrock a great singer (shameless promotion 4tw)
Krogort	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:38:00 - [15] Please don't change it ! If you can loot all the cool stuff when pwning someone, there will be more and more of those n00bish empire ganking squad (yea, empire ganking don't require any skill ). Personaly when I get owned in pvp I love to see that all my cool items have been destroyed...so teh ebil ganker won't get it .
Hotice	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:39:00 - [16] Cannot say know exactly how it works but I know one thing. There is a formula associated with number of items on a ship and how many would get destroyed when ship dies. Tech lvl have no little to effect on what would be left over from the explosion. The game system will destroy flat percentage of the items random. Since that rave got lots of missiles, drones and such on it, so the pool for destroyed items got real large. Sadly a lot of good stuffs are gone but at same time it could go totally the other way. It is all luck and it should be that. Too bad the modules don't really get damaged. In Earth and Beyond, when ship take on hull damage, all modules will have chance to be damaged and down graded in effectivness as well. I think Eve should have a system like that, more realistic.
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Hotice Loot drop from dead player ship is random. You got a bad roll that is all. I've seen many good stuff drop from pvp fights. There is no point to increase loot drop since that will not increase pvp just more ganking. Consider there are already good amount of gate camping going on right now with the current loot drop system. If ccp increased it, there will be more of those gate camps poping up all over. Honestly, I don't think that is pvp since there most likely only one side fighting. Honestly, loot drop should decrease as number of ship hitting the same target increase. Why? Because the target ship took on more damage in larger area of the ship. This will actually reduce ganking and make more people go solo or hunt in small 2-3 men group. This will actually make people fight back and in turn more people want to try pvp. What is the point to try fight back against 5 to n++1 amount of people? When there is little to no chance, why should people bother? In short, loot system should stay the same. No change needed. You guys just need better luck that is all. id also say base it on the final blow, so a Battleship ganking an indy gets less loot then an intercepter or AF having to work for the kill.(i mean 6 Tech 2 high damage torpedos shouldnt leave anything, while 150mm railgun fire might not hit any of the external modules)
Emsigma	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:49:00 - [18] Don't each stack count as one module? IE.. a stack of 10 missiles is as easily destroyed as a stack of 1000? I have at least never ever seen only a part of some minerals survive an explosion. Also.. if that were the case your could easisly just move around with 10k of trit in the cargo hold to make sure that all your modules would go booooom when you die :)
Hotice	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker Originally by: Hotice Loot drop from dead player ship is random. You got a bad roll that is all. I've seen many good stuff drop from pvp fights. There is no point to increase loot drop since that will not increase pvp just more ganking. Consider there are already good amount of gate camping going on right now with the current loot drop system. If ccp increased it, there will be more of those gate camps poping up all over. Honestly, I don't think that is pvp since there most likely only one side fighting. Honestly, loot drop should decrease as number of ship hitting the same target increase. Why? Because the target ship took on more damage in larger area of the ship. This will actually reduce ganking and make more people go solo or hunt in small 2-3 men group. This will actually make people fight back and in turn more people want to try pvp. What is the point to try fight back against 5 to n++1 amount of people? When there is little to no chance, why should people bother? In short, loot system should stay the same. No change needed. You guys just need better luck that is all. id also say base it on the final blow, so a Battleship ganking an indy gets less loot then an intercepter or AF having to work for the kill.(i mean 6 Tech 2 high damage torpedos shouldnt leave anything, while 150mm railgun fire might not hit any of the external modules) Final blow makes little sense though. A ship doesn't die from the final shot alone, it is the total damage received that kills the ship. However, single or small 1-3 ship gang would certainly damage less modules than say 5+ ships all hitting on the target. In fleet battle, a target that was called as primary shouldn't have anything bust dust left for sure. Same goes for Goonfleet 80+ frigates all hitting on a poor battleship. There shouldn't have anything left of that ship right? hehe
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:55:00 - [20] signed, pvp isnt very profitable at best to times and when u kill someone and the good loot pops it isnt nice -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
Hotice	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Emsigma Don't each stack count as one module? IE.. a stack of 10 missiles is as easily destroyed as a stack of 1000? I have at least never ever seen only a part of some minerals survive an explosion. Also.. if that were the case your could easisly just move around with 10k of trit in the cargo hold to make sure that all your modules would go booooom when you die :) Yes, each stack counts as one. If you don't want people to loot good number of stuff you have in your cargo when you got killed. Just carry say 50 bookmarks in cargo. I'm pretty sure after your ship dies, not much would left for loot.
Cerberix	Posted - 2006.04.18 14:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaleeb Name: Kaleeb (laid the final blow) Security: -2.4 Alliance: None Corp: Angel Deep Corporation Ship: Dominix Weapon: 200mm Railgun II As we can see the final blow was laid by a medium T2 gun!!! not uber damage by any means however we still lost all the good loot . Im not whining however the idea of lower damage laying the final blow just doesnt ever seem to equate to the amount of loot destroyed as we have been led to believe
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Hotice Edited by: Hotice on 18/04/2006 14:59:11 Originally by: Emsigma Don't each stack count as one module? IE.. a stack of 10 missiles is as easily destroyed as a stack of 1000? I have at least never ever seen only a part of some minerals survive an explosion. Also.. if that were the case your could easisly just move around with 10k of trit in the cargo hold to make sure that all your modules would go booooom when you die :) Yes, each stack counts as one. If you don't want people to loot good number of stuff you have in your cargo when you got killed. Just carry say 50 bookmarks in cargo. I'm pretty sure after your ship dies, not much would left for loot. Take look at the OP kill mail, that raven got large number of single items. Remember, besides the big missile stacks, each launchers also have missiles loaded and they count as 2 items instead of as 1. Add drones, and other modules. The amount of items left seems just about right. He just got bad roll on that one. leave 10,000 BMs in the hold and when the guy opens the can has wait for them to load!
Uther Doull	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:12:00 - [24] yeah i think that more loot should survive the destruction of a ship... maybe when ccp introduces wrecks and stuff?
Hotice	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker Originally by: Hotice Edited by: Hotice on 18/04/2006 14:59:11 Originally by: Emsigma Don't each stack count as one module? IE.. a stack of 10 missiles is as easily destroyed as a stack of 1000? I have at least never ever seen only a part of some minerals survive an explosion. lol, with 10k bookmark all saying "lalala, you got me not!" The dude who opens your loot container would die from anger! Have you seen that "Boom! Headshot" video? I think it would be something close to that. hehe Also.. if that were the case your could easisly just move around with 10k of trit in the cargo hold to make sure that all your modules would go booooom when you die :) Yes, each stack counts as one. If you don't want people to loot good number of stuff you have in your cargo when you got killed. Just carry say 50 bookmarks in cargo. I'm pretty sure after your ship dies, not much would left for loot. Take look at the OP kill mail, that raven got large number of single items. Remember, besides the big missile stacks, each launchers also have missiles loaded and they count as 2 items instead of as 1. Add drones, and other modules. The amount of items left seems just about right. He just got bad roll on that one. leave 10,000 BMs in the hold and when the guy opens the can has wait for them to load!
Tachy	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:20:00 - [26] Official info: Each and every item/stack has a 50% chance to survive. The module's HP have no influence. They're just for the damage a module can take before it stops working. Somehow T2 and good named modules seem to be checked more than once when I look at the lists from the ships I lost. They're more like being checked until destroyed ... --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Blind Man	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:23:00 - [27] Edited by: Blind Man on 18/04/2006 15:24:16 Why do faction mods gets destroyed SO EASILY, its stupid, very very rare to kill a faction fitted ship and you dont make crap from it. More stuff should be in the can than what gets destroyed tbh, we should get 60-75% of loot at least since what you usually get isnt even worth looting anyway.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:38:00 - [28] I'd pretty convinced that the percentages change as a dynamic ISK sink. "The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 18/04/2006 15:24:16 Why do faction mods gets destroyed SO EASILY, its stupid, very very rare to kill a faction fitted ship and you dont make crap from it. More stuff should be in the can than what gets destroyed tbh, we should get 60-75% of loot at least since what you usually get isnt even worth looting anyway. Dunno about this tbh - I lost a Megathron not that long ago and my Domination MWD and Serpentis Hardner both survived for the other guy to collect - don't think he could believe his luck tbh - he actually offered me my stuff back but it was his loot, fair spoil of battle since I attacked him...
Farjung	Posted - 2006.04.18 15:48:00 - [30] Heh, last faction-fitted bs we popped, ts lar, ss lar, two ss mag stabs, 2 55% faction hards and a faction scram survived ^_^. Sentries got final blow, but don't think much else decent popped. He was a naughty pirate - maybe if victim's sec status < attacker's, more loot survives, and vice-versa ;p? (Not really serious suggestion for an explanation, though it'd be quite funny if it were true) --- Reckless Wave of Mutilation

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