Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2880
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 02:52:00 -
[361] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Autopilot's a big one. Could you elaborate? Seems to me like it can and is used as a smart tool.
You don't realize that if you autopilot, you are giving anyone who cares to shoot you 15km worth of time to do it?
It's quite literally the dumbest thing you can do in the game. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1139
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 02:54:00 -
[362] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: That's kinda questionable. PvP fits vary. And what performs well against one target may not perform as well against another, or perhaps even more of the same. I can see how more PvP like PvE could result in better PvP capable fittings, but that doesn't change the fact that an intruding aggressor is now closer to a 2v1 PvP scenario when you were fitted for a 1v1.
i dnt get what u mean...
that mission runners are vulnerable when out numbered? if it is that, then: No ****. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1026
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 02:57:00 -
[363] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: That's kinda questionable. PvP fits vary. And what performs well against one target may not perform as well against another, or perhaps even more of the same. I can see how more PvP like PvE could result in better PvP capable fittings, but that doesn't change the fact that an intruding aggressor is now closer to a 2v1 PvP scenario when you were fitted for a 1v1.
i dnt get what u mean... that mission runners are vulnerable when out numbered? if it is that, then: No ****. No, more that PvP fits are typically purpose tailored and as such aren't any more likely to withstand unexpected PvP intrusions than PvE tailored fits, especially in the middle of a fight. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 02:59:00 -
[364] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Organic Lager wrote:
The issue is if you're going to blow up 10 hours of my life i spent farming missions for isk, i want it to be more fun then scram, web, and wait to die because i touched a yellow box i shouldn't have. There is also the classic get 1 shotted by a couple nados, that's always a fun way to lose 10 hours of my life.
I want a fighting chance, i want the high sec gankers to put as much at risk as i am. I want a chance to learn something in pvp that isn't well i shouldn't have done that and now i'm boned by someone who does this for a living.
if no'1 in the OP becomes a reality, this will be half solved. That's kinda questionable. PvP fits vary. And what performs well against one target may not perform as well against another, or perhaps even more of the same. I can see how more PvP like PvE could result in better PvP capable fittings, but that doesn't change the fact that an intruding aggressor is now closer to a 2v1 PvP scenario when you were fitted for a 1v1.
With the current agro rules, if done right, it's a 2 to 1 in favor of the missioner. Rats HATE any e-war, including warp scrambling.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1677
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:01:00 -
[365] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And you need to think about something else:
Because of CONCORD, suicide ganking is a very binary thing. Kill the guy and win, or fail to kill him and lose. Either way, the ganker's ship is gone. CONCORD is the very reason why they fight the way they do, with overwhelming force. That's why if you encounter one, they drop the hammer. They aren't incentivized to play any other way.
I had never considered this. I'm going to consider this point for a bit I think and try and respond later.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1140
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:01:00 -
[366] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: No, more that PvP fits are typically purpose tailored and as such aren't any more likely to withstand unexpected PvP intrusions than PvE tailored fits, especially in the middle of a fight.
id say sometimes ppl do change their fits, or take specific counters in PvP when they know what they are up against. but u dnt always know what ur fighting in PvP. there are plenty of cookie cutter fits and plenty of times players will have a 'go to' fit that they use as their standard. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:04:00 -
[367] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It's not really that bad. You can get into a Raven and start blowing through missions with less than 250 mil. Now if you're talking bling, then it's a different ballgame.
A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second
Quote: Luckily for game balance as a whole, pricetag doesn't determine who wins fights. Nor should it. Because even a hint of something like that might as well be telling new players that they shouldn't bother, ever.
For sure this is needed for mutual pvp but it gives those ganking in high a huge edge over mission boats and you want to make it even easier for them?
Quote: Depends on your fit, of course. If you're intending to attack anything, certainly.
I don't intend on attacking anything when running mission that's the whole point. If i want to attack something i go to low. There is no way i can kill someone in a mission boat without them warping off making the LE totally one sided.
Quote: Likely already lost, btw. Nothing is guaranteed. And you need to think about something else:
Because of CONCORD, suicide ganking is a very binary thing. Kill the guy and win, or fail to kill him and lose. Either way, the ganker's ship is gone. CONCORD is the very reason why they fight the way they do, with overwhelming force. That's why if you encounter one, they drop the hammer. They aren't incentivized to play any other way.
CONCORD is the problem with what you're talking about.
Remove concord and every gate turns into a camp fest, markets collapse because no one can get to jita to trade. No i don't think anyone likes that idea. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:05:00 -
[368] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:Hey CCP- you should shoot yourself in the foot by pissing off your single largest subscriber segment.
FIFY
- Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1677
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:22:00 -
[369] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:hellokittyonline wrote:Hey CCP- you should shoot yourself in the foot by pissing off your single largest subscriber segment. FIFY
I find your post ironic considering that the OP is to some extent suggesting the same kind of changes you are suggesting in the thread linked in your signature. In fact, I suspect that if the two of you worked together you could come up with some pretty good ideas.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1140
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:23:00 -
[370] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote:
A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second
u'd have to be quite reckless to lose a raven every 8 hours of playtime.
or dnt use a raven? u and ur friends could get together in drakes and be quite formidable. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
|
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:29:00 -
[371] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Organic Lager wrote:
A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second
u'd have to be quite reckless to lose a raven every 8 hours of playtime. or dnt use a raven? u and ur friends could get together in drakes and be quite formidable.
Damn near impossible under the current system which is why I'm saying don't change it, don't encourage more high sec pvp. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1140
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:39:00 -
[372] - Quote
if u dnt like PvP, one has got to ask: why are u playing eve? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1026
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 03:45:00 -
[373] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:if u dnt like PvP, one has got to ask: why are u playing eve?
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Personally, because so much else appeals to me:
Spaceships Fitting spaceships Flying spaceships Buying new spaceships Flying those new spaceships Changing fittings on those spaceships as changes are made Flying those spaceships again Visual appeal of certain spaceships Visual appeal of the game in general Passive skill training Skill system appeals to me more than the character level system Not restricted to any sort of "class" with a particular character Never not able to trade/sell something because "soulbound" Never not able to play with others I know who play the game because of different servers
Yay post history saving me from retyping! |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
258
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:05:00 -
[374] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rowells wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Autopilot's a big one. Could you elaborate? Seems to me like it can and is used as a smart tool. You don't realize that if you autopilot, you are giving anyone who cares to shoot you 15km worth of time to do it? It's quite literally the dumbest thing you can do in the game. The same could be said for undocking. Anyone who wants to shoot you has an oppurtunity. Doesn't mean everybody is going to pop my shuttle though. It's not as dumb as you think. There are worse things you could do. and in my personal experience, no one has ever shot at me when i autopiloted. So while somebody could shoot me, theres also a strong possibility they won't. If done improperly almost anything done in Eve can be stupid. Do it right and you're smart. Same basic action. Different results. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2882
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:06:00 -
[375] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote: For sure this is needed for mutual pvp but it gives those ganking in high a huge edge over mission boats and you want to make it even easier for them?
Cheap ships being remotely effective compared to expensive ones is good for everyone. Gank ships don't have a "huge advantage" over anyone who is awake. If it were as prevalent as you seem to think it is...
no one could mission. And yet people do. The market is flooded with faction ammo, mods, and implants. Clearly, despite the supposed huge advantage gank ships have, it's getting done.
Quote:Remove concord and every gate turns into a camp fest, markets collapse because no one can get to jita to trade. No i don't think anyone likes that idea.
And yet, I didn't say that.
What I said was, you need to consider that the very thing that makes highsec safer is the reason why you are complaining that you can't get fair fights, or fight anyone worthwhile.
Because CONCORD makes it into a binary equation for pretty much the only real way to kill someone. They can dodge a wardec, they can refuse a duel, so ganking is the only avenue left.
They fly and fight the way they do because that's the best option left. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2882
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:13:00 -
[376] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rowells wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Autopilot's a big one. Could you elaborate? Seems to me like it can and is used as a smart tool. You don't realize that if you autopilot, you are giving anyone who cares to shoot you 15km worth of time to do it? It's quite literally the dumbest thing you can do in the game. The same could be said for undocking.
No, not really. There isn't a better alternative to undocking that makes you much safer.
There is for autopilot. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Abyss Azizora
Astro Industrial Technologies
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:20:00 -
[377] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:mooom, they don't play with me! MAKE THEN PLAY WITH MEEEEE
/thread |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:21:00 -
[378] - Quote
OP is a sucker for marketing buzzwords. Also an Erotica 1 alt. Just look at the eyes. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2882
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:27:00 -
[379] - Quote
Abyss Azizora wrote:March rabbit wrote:mooom, they don't play with me! MAKE THEN PLAY WITH MEEEEE /thread
Remember when I said that carebears want to pretend it's a single player game?
Prime example right here. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10223
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:42:00 -
[380] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote:
A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second
60 mil basic, they can net you at least 90 mil when done right in level 4s. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
260
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 04:56:00 -
[381] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, not really. There isn't a better alternative to undocking that makes you much safer.
There is for autopilot. The safer alternative is not undocking. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2882
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 05:02:00 -
[382] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, not really. There isn't a better alternative to undocking that makes you much safer.
There is for autopilot. The safer alternative is not undocking.
The difference being that using warp to zero doesn't equate to not playing the game.
Unless you really love that market interface, anyway? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
260
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 05:05:00 -
[383] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rowells wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, not really. There isn't a better alternative to undocking that makes you much safer.
There is for autopilot. The safer alternative is not undocking. The difference being that using warp to zero doesn't equate to not playing the game. Unless you really love that market interface, anyway? There are people who do. And oddly enough thats all they do. At least on that character. |
Tacomaco
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 07:47:00 -
[384] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote: EHP of miners was buffed because we were suiciding too many miners, CONCORD was buffed because we were suiciding too many industrials
Hm, maybe CONCORD should work like the real police. They don't always catch the criminals. This would mean you could use better ships to kill all this buffed miners and industrials.
But if they catch you, they should throw you in jail for some time and pay a fine for the damage you caused. Because when you run somebody over with your car, the police doesn't just get your car, they throw you in jail.
Any PvP-ers with balls want to try it this? Escape CONCORD or go to jail?
|
hellokittyonline
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 08:08:00 -
[385] - Quote
Tacomaco wrote:hellokittyonline wrote: EHP of miners was buffed because we were suiciding too many miners, CONCORD was buffed because we were suiciding too many industrials Hm, maybe CONCORD should work like the real police. They don't always catch the criminals. This would mean you could use better ships to kill all this buffed miners and industrials. But if they catch you, they should throw you in jail for some time and pay a fine for the damage you caused. Because when you run somebody over with your car, the police doesn't just get your car, they throw you in jail. Any PvP-ers with balls want to try it this? Escape CONCORD or go to jail? We already know how to escape concord, but CCP nerfed it. Also HOLY AWESOME THANK YOU GUYS FOR DISCUSSING. I've been at work all day and it's awesome to see that this thread has actually evolved into a somewhat coherent discussion. |
hellokittyonline
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 08:26:00 -
[386] - Quote
Rowells wrote:hellokittyonline wrote:PTL;DR - Make players have to learn about the game and its mechanics in order to be successful. So, force players to do something they may or may not want to do. That doesnt sound very sanbox-like to me. If they don't want to learn anything new that's up to them. Examples of people who do not like being forced into a different playstyle: Mission runners Miners Industrialists Traders Non-mission PVE'ers PVP'ers Player leadership Everybody Summary: Nobody wants to be forced into a playstyle they don't like. If i have found a way to have fun and do it well (reducing risk/increasing effectiveness through skills, investments, tactics) then who is anyone else to tell me to do it any other way? I have multiple accounts just for this reason. Sometimes I enjoy blowing things up/getting blown up. Sometimes I enjoy crunching numbers and streamlining processes for my own benefit. A player should NEVER be forced to play a different way simply because someone else wants them to. If someone doesn't want to play like you do, that is essentially a sandbox at it's best. Making someone play a different way than they want is not a sandbox.
Choosing to remain ignorant about game mechanics is not a "play style". The fact of the matter is, whether you like it or not, learning how to defend yourself (ex: dont shoot flashies in a PvE ship and don't autopilot shineys in an untanked industrial) is (and should be) a basic requirement of every profession.
Claiming that you should be able to make poor decisions and not face the consequences is extremely selfish. You are playing a multiplayer game. Remember other players contribute to your game by buying your goods and conversely selling you the items that you need in order to be successful. So you should be able to play by yourself and not return the favor? I support industrialists every day by literally BLOWING isk on ships. The only reason you can even sell goods is because myself and others like me either blow up someone elses goods, or lose our own.
Now with this being said is it really fair for you to be able to reap the rewards of a thriving multiplayer environment and in turn not contribute? |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
239
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 08:57:00 -
[387] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote: Choosing to remain ignorant about game mechanics is not a "play style". The fact of the matter is, whether you like it or not, learning how to defend yourself (ex: dont shoot flashies in a PvE ship and don't autopilot shineys in an untanked industrial) is (and should be) a basic requirement of every profession.
Claiming that you should be able to make poor decisions and not face the consequences is extremely selfish. You are playing a multiplayer game. Remember other players contribute to your game by buying your goods and conversely selling you the items that you need in order to be successful. So you should be able to play by yourself and not return the favor? I support industrialists every day by literally BLOWING isk on ships. The only reason you can even sell goods is because myself and others like me either blow up someone elses goods, or lose our own.
Now with this being said is it really fair for you to be able to reap the rewards of a thriving multiplayer environment and in turn not contribute?
For the first paragraph: and how do changes to PVE teach players common sense?
For the second paragraph: And because it's a MMO means that you should not be allowed to play it on your own and for yourself? This makes you a person I would frown at in RL for being an attention *****. This is a sandbox, where people may interact with each other and can do so when and where and how they like, but you are not forced to interact with each other in every instance/minute you play this game. Claiming that and going so far to demand that and accuse other people of them playing the game wrongly "is extremely selfish" on your part. You are free to demand your favor back, but you should not expect it to be returned. You are not forced to blow up ships or fancy-bling them with shiny modules, it all happens because you want it to. And the same logic should be applied on how other players play this sandbox. If you can do that, that is.
For the third paragraph: Yes, it is. Besides, you are lying to yourself by thinking that. Every dumb player contributes to the game by giving gankers easy targets and juicy kill mails. They pour money into the market by buying expensive mods to compensate for thingsGäó. They put certain modules on the market that you cannot get otherwise. Industrialists provide you with the stuff to blow up and pay with ganked barges, freighters, POS or mineral speculation price surges.
And since I have read it again, nerf Concord that is: m0o. Enough said to that part. |
hellokittyonline
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 08:59:00 -
[388] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote: I want a fighting chance, i want the high sec gankers to put as much at risk as i am. I want a chance to learn something in pvp that isn't well i shouldn't have done that and now i'm boned by someone who does this for a living.
Yet again another common misconception. The only risk you face is that of your own ignorance.
Also, you may not realize this but if I am baiting your mission then I also have an easily-scannable, PvP incapable ship, floating in space worth 15-20x that of your mission boat. That is equally susceptible to all of the same risks that you are complaining about. The key difference is that I have invested the thought required to understand how best to minimize this risk (using knowledge, modules, and mechanics that you have equal access to).
FURTHERMORE, you fail to realize the inherent risk of what I do in that I need 3 accounts in order to even be mildly capable of participating in the profession I have chosen and that my profession guarantees me absolutely no success, while your profession only requires one account, and as long as you put in the time your reward is guaranteed. |
hellokittyonline
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 09:01:00 -
[389] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:hellokittyonline wrote: Choosing to remain ignorant about game mechanics is not a "play style". The fact of the matter is, whether you like it or not, learning how to defend yourself (ex: dont shoot flashies in a PvE ship and don't autopilot shineys in an untanked industrial) is (and should be) a basic requirement of every profession.
Claiming that you should be able to make poor decisions and not face the consequences is extremely selfish. You are playing a multiplayer game. Remember other players contribute to your game by buying your goods and conversely selling you the items that you need in order to be successful. So you should be able to play by yourself and not return the favor? I support industrialists every day by literally BLOWING isk on ships. The only reason you can even sell goods is because myself and others like me either blow up someone elses goods, or lose our own.
Now with this being said is it really fair for you to be able to reap the rewards of a thriving multiplayer environment and in turn not contribute?
For the first paragraph: and how do changes to PVE teach players common sense? For the second paragraph: And because it's a MMO means that you should not be allowed to play it on your own and for yourself? This makes you a person I would frown at in RL for being an attention *****. This is a sandbox, where people may interact with each other and can do so when and where and how they like, but you are not forced to interact with each other in every instance/minute you play this game. Claiming that and going so far to demand that and accuse other people of them playing the game wrongly "is extremely selfish" on your part. You are free to demand your favor back, but you should not expect it to be returned. You are not forced to blow up ships or fancy-bling them with shiny modules, it all happens because you want it to. And the same logic should be applied on how other players play this sandbox. If you can do that, that is. For the third paragraph: Yes, it is. Besides, you are lying to yourself by thinking that. Every dumb player contributes to the game by giving gankers easy targets and juicy kill mails. They pour money into the market by buying expensive mods to compensate for thingsGäó. They put certain modules on the market that you cannot get otherwise. Industrialists provide you with the stuff to blow up and pay with ganked barges, freighters, POS or mineral speculation price surges. And since I have read it again, nerf Concord that is: m0o. Enough said to that part. Nobody is forcing you to PvP or even suggesting that it should be such. I am merely suggesting that one should not be able to completely avoid PvP without having to give it any forethought or taking any precautions.
|
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
261
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 09:06:00 -
[390] - Quote
To say Eve become a Themepark is just a stupid excuse to make such Threads.
Eve development stands still since the Incarna Expansion, so you can easily say, Eve Online is a Themepark make it a Sandbox, which makes more sense.
To be honest i am all for more Sand, but we should demand more Toys, we do have some kind of freedom, especially in Nullsec but only in SOV Space and yes it is player driven, but not created from players.
The tools to make "some Eve ours" are limited, i know most bitter vets here n forum will disagree, but thats the truth.
CCP give us TOOLS, to create our own rules beyond the Sandbox, but instead player beging for some meta changes to bank more easily in Highsec... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |