Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gori Thane
Takahashi Syndicate Takahashi Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
When Retribution 1.1 was released, players were finally given an official method of hi-sec dueling in lieu of of can flipping. The banner given to dueling by CCP was "A proper 1 on 1 for the modern pilot." The idea of dueling is not to eliminate risk of losing your ship or even your pod, but to create an avenue for players to be able to choose their engagements and to know what they kind of fight they are getting into, which would be a nice alternative to engagements in low or null sec space where you may be tricked into thinking you have a fair engagement only to have a fleet warp in on you.
Problem #1: Contrary to the advertised premise of an "honorable duel" between two (or more if multiple simultaneous duels are accepted) pilots, players may bring in assistance via logistical support and thus destroying any chance of a fair fight and they can use logistical support both without agreement from the other dueling pilot(s) OR retaliation! Any retaliation against any ships providing logistical support would actually result in CONCORD intervention!
An example of how current mechanics allow for completely unfair combat: I undock in a frigate from Jita and have a pilot (also in a frigate) issue me a duel challenge. I unwisely accept to the supposed terms of a "frig 1v1". The enemy pilot then immediately has a nearby logi transport shields with a medium or large remote shield booster. Obviously my frigate would never be able to brake a tank supported by logi, so I never stood a chance. I never got a window pop up telling me "Eveplayer002" would like to join the duel and asking me to accept or decline. I never even got the chance to fire upon the logi when he gave reps. CONCORD never intervened. I just died.
Problem #2: A far more common issue with the current dueling system's premise of a "fair fight" come from the ability of pilots to dock after accepting a duel. This leads to two common abuses. The first is that pilots will issue a duel and once their target accepts, they immediately dock and then quickly undock in a completely different (and often much larger and/or more expensive) ship and then proceed to quickly destroy the unsuspecting pilot who thought he or she as agreeing to a duel with so-called even odds. The second, less grievous way pilots abuse the ability to dock with an active duel is that they will agree to a duel and engage, but once the fight tips against their favor, they will wait out the combat timer and then simply dock.
My proposed solution for problem 1 is to simply make any logistical support illegal unless a duel request has been issued by the logistical pilot and accepted by the enemy pilot. This would allow the opposing pilot to know what he's getting into and also for him or her to retaliate! I think is solution is very intuitive and I"m at a loss as to why this isn't the way dueling was from the start. A second option would be to allow logistical support without permission from the opposing pilot(s), but then to allow the opposing pilot(s) to retaliate against the ship providing logistical support as soon as aid is given to an opposing pilot in a duel. I think this second option is by far less preferable, but I wanted to give more than one solution.
My proposed solution to problem 2 would be to start a combat timer as soon as a duel is accepted, making it impossible for a dishonorable duelist to dock and return with a larger ship. A second solution would be to immediately end the duel when one or more pilots dock. Again I like the first option better. As far as stopping pilots from waiting out the combat timer and docking when the tide turns against them...I"m not so sure this needs to be fixed. Waiting out the combat timer does give the other pilot ample time to destroy you before you dock.
Please let me know what you think and I welcome any and all additional ideas for solutions for making the honorable dueling system a little more honorable!
-Gori Thane |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1657
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Man you really need a TL;DR.
I'm going to go back and read but getting ambushed by a wall of text like that is troubling. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
528
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
I call for a revamp of the tutorial system. So many new people come in the forums thinking they have a bright idea yet don't even go about making this idea heard in the correct manner.
TL;DR go post in Features and Ideas Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead.
Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager |
Asarles
Hard Knocks Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Does logi no longer acquire a suspect flag? |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2002
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gori Thane wrote:When Retribution 1.1 was released, players were finally given an official method of hi-sec dueling in lieu of of can flipping. The banner given to dueling by CCP was "A proper 1 on 1 for the modern pilot." The idea of dueling is not to eliminate risk of losing your ship or even your pod, but to create an avenue for players to be able to choose their engagements and to know what they kind of fight they are getting into, which would be a nice alternative to engagements in low or null sec space where you may be tricked into thinking you have a fair engagement only to have a fleet warp in on you.
WRONG.
The duel system was created so people could get aggression to shoot each other without concord interference, and without making themselves global suspects.
It was never intended to prevent people from dishonoring 1v1s, whatever that banner may have said.
Everything is working as intended, there is no problem here. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2735
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Retaliation against the Logi won't provoke Concord. If you Rep someone who's in a limited engagement, and the other person can't engage you, you go suspect. (There's a bug to do with this, which might be being exploited. I'm not going to describe it here.)
As for 2, duel off station. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
3296
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't understand the problems?
1. Logi goes suspect. The wntire universe can shoot at them 2. He can dock because he has no aggression timer.
No such thing as a fair fight. If it is somebody did something wrong. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1657
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:I call for a revamp of the tutorial system. So many new people come in the forums thinking they have a bright idea yet don't even go about making this idea heard in the correct manner.
TL;DR go post in Features and Ideas
I agree with the Esteemed Master Shikkoken. This needs to be posted over in F&I.
I think your ideas have quite a bit of merit. I think Logistics and OGB have a place in PvP but I find myself agreeing with you that if you are going to dual 1v1, it needs to actually be 1v1.
Further, jacking around with the docking/undocking thing is just dumb and amounts to bait and switch which, while within the rules and spirit of the game, is still not cool.
You should request ISD to move your thread to the right place. You won't get as much visibility but you'll get the right (if there is such a thing) visibility.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Hadrian Blackstone
Barringtons Research
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP wants stuff like this to happen. They knew what they were doing. It's good for business. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
10533
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
No one ever said that a duel in Eve Online was a 1v1.
Highsec trade hub duel problems.
Also, LOL @ fair fights in Eve. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
|
Batelle
HOMELE55
2005
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:I don't understand the problems?
1. Logi goes suspect. The entire universe can shoot at them. What is the issue? 2. He can dock because he has no aggression timer. You can to... Imagine that.
No such thing as a fair fight. If it is somebody did something wrong.
If you rep someone with a weapons timer you cannot dock, because you inherit the weapons timer. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
1001
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
THE OP BRINGS MUCH DISHONORBRU TO HIS CLAN.
SEPPUKU EMMINENT.
SUCH AMAZE.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
The Scope Gallente Federation
269
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote: Contrary to the advertised premise of an "honorable duel" between two (or more if multiple simultaneous duels are accepted) pilots, players may bring in assistance via logistical support and thus destroying any chance of a fair fight and they can use logistical support both without agreement from the other dueling pilot(s) OR retaliation! Any retaliation against any ships providing logistical support would actually result in CONCORD intervention!
Duels can be honorable. Duel people you know. Don't expect some random dude that is sending duel invites to not use every means at his disposal to destroy you. I honor 1v1 duels all the time, but I use it for teaching purposes, not to try and have a "fair fight" in everyone versus everyone. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19727
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gori Thane wrote:Problem #1: Contrary to the advertised premise of an "honorable duel" between two (or more if multiple simultaneous duels are accepted) pilots, players may bring in assistance This is not contrary to how it was advertised. In fact, the mechanics that let this happen was probably the bigger contribution that the patch provided.
Quote:Any retaliation against any ships providing logistical support would actually result in CONCORD intervention! No. Any retaliation against a ship providing logistical support will result in you starting a limited engagement with the suspect in question. You have until his weapon timer ends to kill him.
Quote:Problem #2: A far more common issue with the current dueling system's premise of a "fair fight" come from the ability of pilots to dock after accepting a duel. Setting aside for a moment that the premise isn't really GÇ£fair fightsGÇ¥, the ability to refit is something you have to calculate with when you accept the duel. If they dock up, you've won. Good on you. Take the time to deaggress and dock up too. Neither is any kind of abuse.
Your proposals address non-issues. It also belongs in F&I. Oh, and if you're going to complain about and propose alterations to mechanics, at least learn how they work first. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
3299
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:I don't understand the problems?
1. Logi goes suspect. The entire universe can shoot at them. What is the issue? 2. He can dock because he has no aggression timer. You can to... Imagine that.
No such thing as a fair fight. If it is somebody did something wrong. If you rep someone with a weapons timer you cannot dock, because you inherit the weapons timer.
Why thank you Cpt Obvious.
However he was talking about people accepting a duel then docking immediately after the one person engages and undocks in something bigger. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2871
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Please let me know what you think
I think the future of this thread is in F&I.
I also think that you failing to understand the mechanic correctly, then it's being used to slap you in face, is working as intended. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2272
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:THE OP BRINGS MUCH DISHONORBRU TO HIS CLAN.
SEPPUKU EMMINENT.
SUCH AMAZE.
Sums up my feelings.
WHO WOULD PLAY A GAME WHERE DUELS HAVE NO HONOUR?!
NO HONOUR! Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Forum Mcforum
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
i dont know why, but i thought then dueling was implemented, that you and the other person were moved to jove space like the alliance stuff
no idea where i heard this tho
|
KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
1002
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Forum Mcforum wrote:i dont know why, but i thought then dueling was implemented, that you and the other person were moved to jove space like the alliance stuff
no idea where i heard this tho
Jove Space is a lie.
It is merely a place where gypsy's go to sell blow that has been stepped on too many times.
Trust me.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1667
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Forum Mcforum wrote:i dont know why, but i thought then dueling was implemented, that you and the other person were moved to jove space like the alliance stuff
no idea where i heard this tho
Jove Space is a lie. It is merely a place where gypsy's go to sell blow that has been stepped on too many times. Trust me.
There is no Jove space.
There are no Jovians.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1072
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
In the first place, duel system shouldn't never be added to the game, is against the EVE core design concepts.
Anyway, was added to remove the aggression flag issues, not to enforce a specific ethic or idea of "honor".
Go figure how "honorable" is someone in need of a specific game mechanics to keep them in line.
|
KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
1003
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
There is no Jove space.
There are no Jovians.
Correct, Kimmi!!!!!!!!!!!
Here, have a space like.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1667
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:
There is no Jove space.
There are no Jovians.
Correct, Kimmi!!!!!!!!!!!Here, have a space like.
Backatcha!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Gori Thane
Takahashi Syndicate Takahashi Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 23:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Man you really need a TL;DR.
I'm going to go back and read but getting ambushed by a wall of text like that is troubling.
What's a TL;DR? I apologize for posting this in the wrong area. I"ll re-post in F and I.
If you remote rep someone in a duel, you do not get a suspect flag. In the example I gave, the logi never got a suspect flag. I petitioned CCP and got a response saying that's how it works currently, but that I can post on forums if I thought it should be changed. Also, here is a link to to a previous forum thread confirming that you do not receive a suspect flag for RRing someone in a duel. - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=250522
Thanks to all who have contributed their ideas and input. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
1004
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 23:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gori Thane wrote:
WAH WAH WAH!!!!! HE UNDOCKED IN A VINDI AND HAD LINKS AND GAURDIANS!!!!!!!!! WHATEVER AM I TO DO?!?!?!?!?!?!?
FTFY
And we are not finished with the thread yet, sir.
We have not had a sticking quality derailment quite yet.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19727
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 00:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gori Thane wrote:If you remote rep someone in a duel, you do not get a suspect flag. Then you should bug-report it.
GǪwhich doesn't say that you don't receive a suspect flag. In fact, it hardly mentions the word. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Ai Shun
1177
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 00:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:In the first place, duel system shouldn't never be added to the game, is against the EVE core design concepts.
+1
Anybody expecting a fair fight, no matter what the circumstances, should just turn off their guns, unrack the ammo and kill their drive. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1671
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 00:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:And we are not finished with the thread yet, sir. We have not had a sticking quality derailment quite yet.
I know that not everyone that plays Eve is an American but did you know:
...that in the time following the founding of the United States, then President Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton (who is credited with founding the economic basis by which America prospered in the 1800s) had a duel with each other? Hamilton fired first but missed (he didn't have any tracking enhancers) and then Burr fired and hit Hamilton square in the chest. Hamilton died the next morning.
Incidentally, it is Alexander Hamilton's face on the American $20 bill.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 00:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:And we are not finished with the thread yet, sir. We have not had a sticking quality derailment quite yet. I know that not everyone that plays Eve is an American but did you know: ...that in the time following the founding of the United States, then Vice-President Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton (who is credited with founding the economic basis by which America prospered in the 1800s) had a duel with each other? Hamilton fired first but missed (he didn't have any tracking enhancers) and then Burr fired and hit Hamilton square in the chest. Hamilton died the next morning. Incidentally, it is Alexander Hamilton's face on the American $20 bill.
Andrew Jackson is on the $20. He fought in several duels.
|
KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 01:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
I know that not everyone that plays Eve is an American but did you know:
...that in the time following the founding of the United States, then Vice-President Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton (who is credited with founding the economic basis by which America prospered in the 1800s) had a duel with each other? Hamilton fired first but missed (he didn't have any tracking enhancers) and then Burr fired and hit Hamilton square in the chest. Hamilton died the next morning.
Incidentally, it is Alexander Hamilton's face on the American $20 bill.
I did, indeed know that, Kimmi. However, Hamilton's face graces the $10 note. The more interesting point of said duel, was Mr. Hamilton's honor. A point that the OP should take into account. In letter's and notes written before said duel, he announced (albeit, to himself) his intention to purposely miss Burr, for the sake of his honor.
Hamilton's honor cost him his life. Burr lived on.
Perhaps the OP would contribute something on the scale of Hamilton's contributions as Secretary Of The Treasury, and he could be immortalized on something forever, like an Aurum token. Or something, vOv.
Instead, he will simply fade into obscurity as another person who argued the same points that were argued a thousand times before in General Discussion, simply because he wasn't bright enough to use the search function.
So sad.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |