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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3017
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: A) CCP pretty much found the sweetspot to balance gratification/fun/challenge/lasting appeal with the current training times
or
B) Maybe they didn't but changing things is just too risky and ultimately not worth it (even if - say - training times were actually too fast from a 'gameplay balancing' perspective)]
More A than B, but that's CCP call to make since it's only in their head that it's obvious what their intentions are. Overall, I believe skill training speeds are in a good spot. In particular cases, some skills could use tweaking of multipliers, or of requirements. For example: Weapon Upgrades V -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades; changing that requirement to IV would remove a high time investment necessary relatively early in people's careers, removing some "required boilerplate" training. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3017
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:They should create skills that help you train skills faster.
Have 2 types:
1 Standard set for each attribute. 1 Advanced set for each attribute.
The standard set can be just Rank 1 skills and the Advanced set can be like Rank 3 skills. Both the Standard and the Advanced would raise the attribute by 1 point.
And then have one skill that affects all five attributes and adds like 2% per level for each level you train, with +10% at Level V.
Would that help with what the OP is looking for? +1, capital idea, I can get behind this. Wow! You are an genuis. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4027
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Please dock OP 50,000 SP for this idea. Or, to make it fair, take away 50k SP from all of us and in the launcher news ask players to evemail and chat OP thanking him for posting. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msbrKFgKF6w |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Please dock OP 50,000 SP for this idea. Or, to make it fair, take away 50k SP from all of us and in the launcher news ask players to evemail and chat OP thanking him for posting. Or just double my SP.
By the way, did you not consider more SP = more podkills in an un-upgraded clone to get those SP down to 900k? A big advantage, imho. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1714
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Your an genuis.
I see what you did there.
Sometimes when the grammar police start crying, I pat them on the back and say, "There, their, they're".
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msbrKFgKF6w funny one, nice kid.
But we're all in this for the shiney spaceship toys, aren't we?
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3234
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 00:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Just rememeber the old EVE adage that 20% of training gets you 80% of the benefits. Only train to V if it leads to something like a new ship/module, opens up a new skill or, very rarely, the skill is stupidly OP (did I hear someone mutter Drone Interfacing?) Because EVE players love spreadsheets and math:
* Level 1 = 250 SP * Level 2 = 1415 SP * Level 3 = 8000 SP * Level 4 = 45255 SP * Level 5 = 256000 SP
Training time of level 4 vs. level 5: Level 4 / Level 5 = 45255 / 256000 = level 4 is 17.68% of level 5
You can train (256000 - 45255) / 45255 = 4.66 same rank skills to level 4 in the same amount of time as training one skill to level 5. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1424
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
I like how people feel entitled to more stuff. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
635
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2163
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Why don't you spend time applying the skill you just trained instead of trying to rush to the next one right away?
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1425
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ...
The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff.
Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff. Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out.
Isnt that what all those free remaps are about ??
it amuses me how many new players refuse to remap (even though the first remap gets reinstated 12 months later so the sooner you use it the better) on the basis that "I want to be flexible and train any skill". |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1560
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:First, a disclaimer:
Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max.
And then the next guy comes along and says, "why not another 5 or 10%, it was done before !! ".
One more "imbalance" is not what we need, and the Character Generation system -- which is where this all eventually leads back to -- has gone through so many revisions in the last 10 year I have lost track.
So, "No".
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1425
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff. Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out. Isnt that what all those free remaps are about ?? it amuses me how many new players refuse to remap (even though the first remap gets reinstated 12 months later so the sooner you use it the better) on the basis that "I want to be flexible and train any skill".
Remaps do add options, but they don't have the weed out function that learning skills did. Learning skills forced you to be patient. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1131
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
No. |
Winchester Steele
359
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:good advice to train faster and to make better use of the skills you already have unidenify wrote:good advice to train faster Hasikan Miallok wrote:good advice to train more effectively and to make better use of the skills you already have Nimrod vanHall wrote:good advice to train faster Thanks for the advice guys, but I'd like to clarify: I wasn't asking how to train faster/more effectively or how to have fun with the skills I have. I wanted to ask: wouldn't EVE be more fun for everybody - and still remaining pretty much the challenging game we all love - if we had a slight 5-10% boost both to current SP and to new SP progression? Or in other words: wouldn't you enjoy a slight skill boost? Remember 5-10% boost means you'd still have to train many many months for that Archon... still not 'instant gratification' by any measure.
This is a bad idea and you should feel bad for suggesting it. Stop trying to turn Eve into an instant gratification theme park. I like my skill queues long and painful. If ANYTHING, remove learning implants and make it take even longer. HTFU. ... |
Stigmus Vrekk
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Being new to the EVE universe I haven't encountered the month + wait yet but I will say this: The skill que system in EVE is superior to any other mmo time sink skill grind method I've endured. That play style is for the birds. The que system here allows me to do more productive things while I wait... like study and learn the game. Spreading dis-ease with mental wine & cheese since 79' |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1426
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Stigmus Vrekk wrote:Being new to the EVE universe I haven't encountered the month + wait yet but I will say this: The skill que system in EVE is superior to any other mmo time sink skill grind method I've endured. That play style is for the birds. The que system here allows me to do more productive things while I wait... like study and learn the game.
This man gets it. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
131
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
I used to play lot of swtor. ya I grinded lot got to 55 and had max tire gear.
so I asked myself.. what now? do it all again. so nope.
leave skill training as it is. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
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Ralen Zateki
Nexis. League of Infamy
81
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
I throw up in my mouth a little every time I read one of these threads....
I'm having a blast grinding it out. Frankly, I think EVE would die - or worse become ridiculously blah - if they got rid of this most provocative feature...
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Cornullus Rage
Tears of Titans Legion of Forsaken Titans
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 03:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
You lost me at "to be fair". This is Eve still right? |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2653
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TO justify a change, you need a compelling reason. "It feels slow" isn't a reason and "it might be more fun" also isn't a reason.
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't look at EVE mon and want to yell, "TRAIN FASTER damn it" because I want to do things with the characters that are training (for example, I'm training up a low sec lvl 5 mission running team, 23 days to go till they have the skill I need them to have to pull it off).
But the "slow" training time makes getting the result mean something. The current training times holds a player accountable to himself for his decisions about what to train and when to remap. I don't see a compelling reason to speed things up.
Wait...
You need a team?
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Master trole 2014. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1428
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now.
I was a new player once too you know. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Winchester Steele
359
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 05:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Disclaimer: WoW is sh*t, we all know this. This is just where I am coming from.
There once was a time when WoW was, well not hard, but definitely a more compelling game then the fps it has basically become today. Once upon a time, long ago, WoW even had a community where your avatar actually had some meaning and where it took patience and time to advance and gain power. You needed to have skill, dedication and most of all social organization in order to be successful. My first "level 60" character took me many, many months of work to level and skill up to be competent in the raids.
Then along came a bunch of guys like the OP.
It takes too long to level up they said.
It is too hard to progress they said.
Only the elite (i.e. competent players) get to see the "end game."
and worst of all,
I should be able to get access to everything in the game by myself. I pay 15.00 a month. I'm entitled.
When I quit WoW, it took around 48 hours to completely max out a character (level 80, i think.. was a while ago.) and be ready to face the most dangerous foes in the game. The community was utterly destroyed as max level characters became a dime a dozen and every single one of them could get all the same gear inside of a week. The instant gratification crowd completely took over the show. Instant levels, instant gear, instant group of friends.. instant f*cking trash.
Thus far Eve has been a bastion, a fortress if you will, against this "give it to me right now" mentality so prevalent among the current generation of gamers. The patience required to be successful in Eve is the antithesis of the cheap gameplay found in every other **** mmo on the market today. And I think I speak for a lot of capsuleers when I say that's just the way we like it.
Although your idea isn't the most heinous ever posted on Eve-o, threads like these are insidious because individually they ask for small concessions, but collectively (and there are a lot of these threads) they are very, very harmful to the essence of EvE.
TL;DR My response/advice to you on this thread: No more compromises, EvE is supposed to be hard as f*ck. Once you embrace the HTFU, the whole game starts to make a lot more sense and you'll stop making silly threads like this. ... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19792
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 05:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
When will people realize, Higher SP does not make EVE more fun to play.
Find a good corp and forget about needing 100's of millions S/p.
Just have fun. |
Eccon Dustwaver
Excalibur Industries
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Yes the training is in fact too slow. It is unfair to new players who ask for a level playing field. Those who are against lowering the training time are just Cowards and A-Holes who like to pick on lesser skilled newbies. I have been playing this game for a decade and know the attitude and nature of most EVE players and it isn't good. In the end it is the current attitude towards change that hurts this game. The Devs would be total idiots not to look into this issue. |
Eccon Dustwaver
Excalibur Industries
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players. |
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