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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
First, a disclaimer:
- The real-time training concept is great - The 'order of magnitude' of the current training time feels right too. It gives you time to learn to fly stuff and makes that new ship class that you've waited weeks/months to get into all the more rewarding. It also gives progression in EVE that 'epic' pace that is pretty cool.
But...
Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max.
To make it fair for everybody, all active accounts would receive an SP bonus of exactly ( 1 / 0.95-0.9 -1 = ) 5.26%-11.11% of their current SP.
So all EVE players, new and old, would be able to do a little bit more stuff in the game. A new ship class, a bonus to the preferred weapon system, whatever.
My assumption here is: a bit more opportunites for all = a bit more fun for all. And since it would be percentage-based, it shouldn't really make things easier for new players at the expense of the vets. The vets would get a hefty SP bonus indeed! That they could maybe use to more easily kill that HAC that the younger player just got into a few weeks earlier than before... Win-win maybe?
Wouldn't we all love this? Wouldn't it also boost active player numbers ('hey lemme go try that brand new toy')?
Final disclaimer: I know most threads are whiney these days. I'm not complaining, I'm a patient dude and I have tons of fun flying just frigs and dessies atm. Just thought this could be reasonable and a nice present for every EVE player |
Bernie Nator
4U Services Inc. Upholders
976
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Buy implants.
Or, be patient and learn what you can do without those modules/ships. Eve isn't about instant gratification. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19784
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nah. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
implants help (no idea if tutorial make mention about implants, but if they don't. Then I recommend they include this stuff)
not mention there are special booster or pill for newbie that temporary boost their training time |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4947
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
The justify a change, you need a compelling reason. "It feels slow" isn't a reason and "it might be more fun" also isn't a reason.
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't look at EVE mon and want to yell, "TRAIN FASTER damn it" because I want to do things with the characters that are training (for example, I'm training up a low sec lvl 5 mission running team, 23 days to go till they have the skill I need them to have to pull it off).
But the "slow" training time makes getting the result mean something. The current training times holds a player accountable to himself for his decisions about what to train and when to remap. I don't see a compelling reason to speed things up. |
GreenSeed
950
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 20:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
the rate is fine, given the absolutely ZERO risk in gaining it. unless you are stupid and like to pvp with a set of +5s...
would be nice to get all the way to +7s, but say, you must have a "training slot" available on a POS module of sorts. that way you are forced to join/create a corporation, and also forced and rewarded by having and defending a POS.
so long as the POS is standing and enough slots are available every character on that corp can benefit from the training bonus.
i don't think its a terrible idea, and training implants need to die. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
378
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just rememeber the old EVE adage that 20% of training gets you 80% of the benefits. Only train to V if it leads to something like a new ship/module, opens up a new skill or, very rarely, the skill is stupidly OP (did I hear someone mutter Drone Interfacing?) .
More importantly do not get focussed on "bigger is better" and obsessed with skill training. New players can get far to stuck on accumulating SP and struggling to qualify for something like a Maurauder when the most fun in the game often comes from things like interceptors that you can feasibly fly within 2 weeks of subbing your trial account. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The justify a change, you need a compelling reason. "It feels slow" isn't a reason and "it might be more fun" also isn't a reason. The reason would be: people having some more tools at their disposal would lead to people doing more things in EVE would lead to EVE gameplay being more fun for all (assuming having fun is the main objective in a videogame).
Not stating that it's a 'compelling' reason, of course, that's up to personal opinion.
Jenn aSide wrote:(for example, I'm training up a low sec lvl 5 mission running team, 23 days to go till they have the skill I need them to have to pull it off). In your own example, other people could gank your team 1 or 2 days earlier. Multiply this for every EVE player doing new things more often.
Please note, it's not about me or you training a bit faster, it would be everybody training faster and doing more things - preferably nasty things to eachother, obviously.
Tippia wrote:The formula for SP requirements to reach any given level of a skill is is 2^(2.5 +ù [lvl -1]) +ù Rank +ù 250. Just found this in an old thread. So another way to put it is: why x 250? Why not x 235? Why not give that 6% bonus to everybody to give EVE a little 'shake up'? |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1239
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
You would absolutely BOmB the character bizarre market *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
Nimrod vanHall
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
unidenify wrote:implants help (no idea if tutorial make mention about implants, but if they don't. Then I recommend they include this stuff)
not mention there are special booster or pill for newbie that temporary boost their training time
The tutorial gives 1 +1 implant as a reward. I think its a perception one but I'm not shure.
|
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:good advice to train faster and to make better use of the skills you already have
unidenify wrote:good advice to train faster
Hasikan Miallok wrote:good advice to train more effectively and to make better use of the skills you already have
Nimrod vanHall wrote:good advice to train faster
Thanks for the advice guys, but I'd like to clarify: I wasn't asking how to train faster/more effectively or how to have fun with the skills I have.
I wanted to ask: wouldn't EVE be more fun for everybody - and still remaining pretty much the challenging game we all love - if we had a slight 5-10% boost both to current SP and to new SP progression?
Or in other words: wouldn't you enjoy a slight skill boost? Remember 5-10% boost means you'd still have to train many many months for that Archon... still not 'instant gratification' by any measure. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:good advice to train faster and to make better use of the skills you already have unidenify wrote:good advice to train faster Hasikan Miallok wrote:good advice to train more effectively and to make better use of the skills you already have Nimrod vanHall wrote:good advice to train faster Thanks for the advice guys, but I'd like to clarify: I wasn't asking how to train faster/more effectively or how to have fun with the skills I have. I wanted to ask: wouldn't EVE be more fun for everybody - and still remaining pretty much the challenging game we all love - if we had a slight 5-10% boost both to current SP and to new SP progression? Or in other words: wouldn't you enjoy a slight skill boost? Remember 5-10% boost means you'd still have to train many many months for that Archon... still not 'instant gratification' by any measure.
and the answers you have recived is 'no'. There are already systems in place to help you train faster. Utalize the tools that are there.
When you reach 10 years you will look at 45 days skill's and shrug as its something to fill the time.
And I have never used a single implant on this char... so that should tell you something.
And eve used to have a 'faster training' it was called learning skills. But ccp removed it to make the game more fun. It doenslt need any more reduction |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3012
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis' Law: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
New players benefit: Can get into {shiny ship} much faster!
This can be a counter-benefit by messing with the deliberate slow progression and dumping big stuff on people not ready for it. Believe it or not, hopping into the biggest, most "oh wow!" ship is not a way to success when people in small ships who know what they're doing can crap on your thunder.
Veteran players benefit:
- Easy-mode training of alts
- Character bazaar price crash (not a benefit for some)
- T3 skill point loss more meaningless
- Less dedication/investment in training high-tier skills to V
Vets do not need all this help. I say this being a 5-year player who would absolutely love training stuff faster. As much as I'd enjoy it, it would simply be bad for Eve.
So...
No. Skill training is fine. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
500
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Or in other words: wouldn't you enjoy a slight skill boost? Remember 5-10% boost means you'd still have to train many many months for that Archon... still not 'instant gratification' by any measure. I'm sure many people would say yes, but then not agree that it should happen.
That would be my view. Obviously training faster seems initially to allow you to get into more bling faster, but I still haven't seen any solid reason for a value of 5-10%. That just seems arbitrary.
On the flip side, training is a process that leads to great satisfaction when milestones are reached. Changing the training speed will also change the way reaching those milestones is perceived.
So there is a balance between speed and outcome that you need to consider, which hasn't currently been covered. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4950
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Malcanis' Law: "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." New players benefit: Can get into {shiny ship} much faster! This can be a counter-benefit by messing with the deliberate slow progression and dumping big stuff on people not ready for it. Believe it or not, hopping into the biggest, most "oh wow!" ship is not a way to success when people in small ships who know what they're doing can crap on your thunder. Veteran players benefit:
- Easy-mode training of alts
- Character bazaar price crash (not a benefit for some)
- T3 skill point loss more meaningless
- Less dedication/investment in training high-tier skills to V
Vets do not need all this help. I say this being a 5-year player who would absolutely love training stuff faster. As much as I'd enjoy it, it would simply be bad for Eve. So... No. Skill training is fine.
Well said.
That's something that is usually missing from the people who propose ideas: careful consideration of the potential downsides. "Easy-mode training of alts" is one such point, people are already complaining about how easy it is to make a dessie ganking alt, this idea would make it easier.
No compelling reason (ie, it's not fixing something that is broke or adding anything really new) plus too many poetntial unintended consequences makes this a ver bad idea. Not game breakingly bad , but bad, To answer the OPs question, sure, I'd 'like' (for me personally) faster training, but what I like and what the game needs are 2 different things. |
Frank Millar
473
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 21:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't think a whole week passed since the last "skill training is too slow / I am never going to catch up / I want all of it NOAW"-thread.
Truly and remarkably terrible. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Spurty wrote:You would absolutely BOmB the character bizarre market I'm not so sure, actually. If you make skill training 5% faster and ALSO give +5% SPs to every existing toon, including the ones on the bazar, I wonder if and how prices would change? An interesting question for the economists, actually...! |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1711
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
They should create skills that help you train skills faster.
Have 2 types:
1 Standard set for each attribute. 1 Advanced set for each attribute.
The standard set can be just Rank 1 skills and the Advanced set can be like Rank 3 skills. Both the Standard and the Advanced would raise the attribute by 1 point.
And then have one skill that affects all five attributes and adds like 2% per level for each level you train, with +10% at Level V.
Would that help with what the OP is looking for? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:They should create skills that help you train skills faster.
Have 2 types:
1 Standard set for each attribute. 1 Advanced set for each attribute.
The standard set can be just Rank 1 skills and the Advanced set can be like Rank 3 skills. Both the Standard and the Advanced would raise the attribute by 1 point.
And then have one skill that affects all five attributes and adds like 2% per level for each level you train, with +10% at Level V.
Would that help with what the OP is looking for?
they had this... it was called learning skills |
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
6724
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
No
I like Missiles. Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Carmen Electra - You are also on my block list. |
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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1711
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:n.m, just saw what you doing here
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1711
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tollen Gallen wrote:I like Missiles.
Me too!!!!!
Warhead Upgrades V finishes this week!!!! \o/
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
378
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
To be honest I actually spend more time in one month trained alts than I do in my battleship owning main. Even then my main logs way more time in Assault Frigates and Interceptors than a battleship.
I recently re-ran Bloodstained Stars (its a once every 3 months arc) and despite owning multiple cruisers, battle-cruisers and battleships from pretty much every faction, I redid the whole arc this time in a T1 artie thrasher (admittedly with T2 artillery ) becasue it would be way more fun that way. next time I think I will do it in a Wolf or a Firetail or possible an interceptor.
This game is not WoW and is NOT about accumulating SP as fast as possible. If you really want huge SP just earn or plex some ISK and go to the character bazaar and buy a character with several years training up.
Do not get obsessed with skill training, if you forget to update your skills its not the end of the world, if you go away for a month and unsub for 4 weeks you are not nerfing your character and having a 3 or 4 week train ahead may be a good thing if it means you play the game rather than fiddle the skill queue. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2031
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Whatever speed training was set at by CCP, some folk would always want it to be faster, because...... This is not a signature. |
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Another resounding, No!
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1712
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Whatever speed training was set at by CCP, some folk would always want it to be faster, because......
...they suffer from Veruca Salt-ism...
But Daddy!!! I want faster skills nnnnooooooowwwwwwww.....
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
446
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think that we can all agree that my training should be faster but as a general rule training times for everyone else are fine. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 22:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
To everyone that said 'yeah sure I'd enjoy it personally but it would be bad for the game for thoughtful reasons X, Y, Z':
I don't know if I should thank you for your kind feedback or hate you because a community so awesome is yet another reason why EVE will totally screw my social life for many years to come.
One last question if you're still around, do you think:
A) CCP pretty much found the sweetspot to balance gratification/fun/challenge/lasting appeal with the current training times
or
B) Maybe they didn't but changing things is just too risky and ultimately not worth it (even if - say - training times were actually too fast from a 'gameplay balancing' perspective)
To the only dude that couldn't bother to actually read past the topic: yes, you're right, every single time I solo kill someone with 5 times my SP I sit back and think. 'darn, I am never going to catch up'. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Perhaps some individual skills can use mulitipkier adjustments, but I cant think of any offhand.
Excdpt perhaps the difference between T2 and T3 Cruiser training time, for example, seems off to me personally (but this is perhaps prejudiced by how diverse T3 Cruisers are and multiplied by the fact that thet are also really good at any number of those diverse functions, therefore not related to skilling time, but rather the effectiveness of the two classes in comparison to each other.) |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
446
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
To answer your question on the whole CCP have hit the right balance with training. The current system works well and is probably one of those rarest of things in EvE, reasonably fair. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3017
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: A) CCP pretty much found the sweetspot to balance gratification/fun/challenge/lasting appeal with the current training times
or
B) Maybe they didn't but changing things is just too risky and ultimately not worth it (even if - say - training times were actually too fast from a 'gameplay balancing' perspective)]
More A than B, but that's CCP call to make since it's only in their head that it's obvious what their intentions are. Overall, I believe skill training speeds are in a good spot. In particular cases, some skills could use tweaking of multipliers, or of requirements. For example: Weapon Upgrades V -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades; changing that requirement to IV would remove a high time investment necessary relatively early in people's careers, removing some "required boilerplate" training. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3017
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:They should create skills that help you train skills faster.
Have 2 types:
1 Standard set for each attribute. 1 Advanced set for each attribute.
The standard set can be just Rank 1 skills and the Advanced set can be like Rank 3 skills. Both the Standard and the Advanced would raise the attribute by 1 point.
And then have one skill that affects all five attributes and adds like 2% per level for each level you train, with +10% at Level V.
Would that help with what the OP is looking for? +1, capital idea, I can get behind this. Wow! You are an genuis. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4027
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Please dock OP 50,000 SP for this idea. Or, to make it fair, take away 50k SP from all of us and in the launcher news ask players to evemail and chat OP thanking him for posting. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msbrKFgKF6w |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Please dock OP 50,000 SP for this idea. Or, to make it fair, take away 50k SP from all of us and in the launcher news ask players to evemail and chat OP thanking him for posting. Or just double my SP.
By the way, did you not consider more SP = more podkills in an un-upgraded clone to get those SP down to 900k? A big advantage, imho. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1714
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Your an genuis.
I see what you did there.
Sometimes when the grammar police start crying, I pat them on the back and say, "There, their, they're".
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msbrKFgKF6w funny one, nice kid.
But we're all in this for the shiney spaceship toys, aren't we?
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3234
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 00:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Just rememeber the old EVE adage that 20% of training gets you 80% of the benefits. Only train to V if it leads to something like a new ship/module, opens up a new skill or, very rarely, the skill is stupidly OP (did I hear someone mutter Drone Interfacing?) Because EVE players love spreadsheets and math:
* Level 1 = 250 SP * Level 2 = 1415 SP * Level 3 = 8000 SP * Level 4 = 45255 SP * Level 5 = 256000 SP
Training time of level 4 vs. level 5: Level 4 / Level 5 = 45255 / 256000 = level 4 is 17.68% of level 5
You can train (256000 - 45255) / 45255 = 4.66 same rank skills to level 4 in the same amount of time as training one skill to level 5. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1424
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
I like how people feel entitled to more stuff. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
635
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2163
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Why don't you spend time applying the skill you just trained instead of trying to rush to the next one right away?
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1425
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 01:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ...
The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff.
Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
382
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff. Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out.
Isnt that what all those free remaps are about ??
it amuses me how many new players refuse to remap (even though the first remap gets reinstated 12 months later so the sooner you use it the better) on the basis that "I want to be flexible and train any skill". |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1560
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:First, a disclaimer:
Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max.
And then the next guy comes along and says, "why not another 5 or 10%, it was done before !! ".
One more "imbalance" is not what we need, and the Character Generation system -- which is where this all eventually leads back to -- has gone through so many revisions in the last 10 year I have lost track.
So, "No".
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1425
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff. Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out. Isnt that what all those free remaps are about ?? it amuses me how many new players refuse to remap (even though the first remap gets reinstated 12 months later so the sooner you use it the better) on the basis that "I want to be flexible and train any skill".
Remaps do add options, but they don't have the weed out function that learning skills did. Learning skills forced you to be patient. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1131
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
No. |
Winchester Steele
359
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:good advice to train faster and to make better use of the skills you already have unidenify wrote:good advice to train faster Hasikan Miallok wrote:good advice to train more effectively and to make better use of the skills you already have Nimrod vanHall wrote:good advice to train faster Thanks for the advice guys, but I'd like to clarify: I wasn't asking how to train faster/more effectively or how to have fun with the skills I have. I wanted to ask: wouldn't EVE be more fun for everybody - and still remaining pretty much the challenging game we all love - if we had a slight 5-10% boost both to current SP and to new SP progression? Or in other words: wouldn't you enjoy a slight skill boost? Remember 5-10% boost means you'd still have to train many many months for that Archon... still not 'instant gratification' by any measure.
This is a bad idea and you should feel bad for suggesting it. Stop trying to turn Eve into an instant gratification theme park. I like my skill queues long and painful. If ANYTHING, remove learning implants and make it take even longer. HTFU. ... |
Stigmus Vrekk
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Being new to the EVE universe I haven't encountered the month + wait yet but I will say this: The skill que system in EVE is superior to any other mmo time sink skill grind method I've endured. That play style is for the birds. The que system here allows me to do more productive things while I wait... like study and learn the game. Spreading dis-ease with mental wine & cheese since 79' |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1426
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Stigmus Vrekk wrote:Being new to the EVE universe I haven't encountered the month + wait yet but I will say this: The skill que system in EVE is superior to any other mmo time sink skill grind method I've endured. That play style is for the birds. The que system here allows me to do more productive things while I wait... like study and learn the game.
This man gets it. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
131
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
I used to play lot of swtor. ya I grinded lot got to 55 and had max tire gear.
so I asked myself.. what now? do it all again. so nope.
leave skill training as it is. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
|
Ralen Zateki
Nexis. League of Infamy
81
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 02:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
I throw up in my mouth a little every time I read one of these threads....
I'm having a blast grinding it out. Frankly, I think EVE would die - or worse become ridiculously blah - if they got rid of this most provocative feature...
|
Cornullus Rage
Tears of Titans Legion of Forsaken Titans
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 03:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
You lost me at "to be fair". This is Eve still right? |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2653
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TO justify a change, you need a compelling reason. "It feels slow" isn't a reason and "it might be more fun" also isn't a reason.
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't look at EVE mon and want to yell, "TRAIN FASTER damn it" because I want to do things with the characters that are training (for example, I'm training up a low sec lvl 5 mission running team, 23 days to go till they have the skill I need them to have to pull it off).
But the "slow" training time makes getting the result mean something. The current training times holds a player accountable to himself for his decisions about what to train and when to remap. I don't see a compelling reason to speed things up.
Wait...
You need a team?
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Master trole 2014. |
masternerdguy
State Protectorate Caldari State
1428
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 04:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now.
I was a new player once too you know. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Winchester Steele
359
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 05:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Disclaimer: WoW is sh*t, we all know this. This is just where I am coming from.
There once was a time when WoW was, well not hard, but definitely a more compelling game then the fps it has basically become today. Once upon a time, long ago, WoW even had a community where your avatar actually had some meaning and where it took patience and time to advance and gain power. You needed to have skill, dedication and most of all social organization in order to be successful. My first "level 60" character took me many, many months of work to level and skill up to be competent in the raids.
Then along came a bunch of guys like the OP.
It takes too long to level up they said.
It is too hard to progress they said.
Only the elite (i.e. competent players) get to see the "end game."
and worst of all,
I should be able to get access to everything in the game by myself. I pay 15.00 a month. I'm entitled.
When I quit WoW, it took around 48 hours to completely max out a character (level 80, i think.. was a while ago.) and be ready to face the most dangerous foes in the game. The community was utterly destroyed as max level characters became a dime a dozen and every single one of them could get all the same gear inside of a week. The instant gratification crowd completely took over the show. Instant levels, instant gear, instant group of friends.. instant f*cking trash.
Thus far Eve has been a bastion, a fortress if you will, against this "give it to me right now" mentality so prevalent among the current generation of gamers. The patience required to be successful in Eve is the antithesis of the cheap gameplay found in every other **** mmo on the market today. And I think I speak for a lot of capsuleers when I say that's just the way we like it.
Although your idea isn't the most heinous ever posted on Eve-o, threads like these are insidious because individually they ask for small concessions, but collectively (and there are a lot of these threads) they are very, very harmful to the essence of EvE.
TL;DR My response/advice to you on this thread: No more compromises, EvE is supposed to be hard as f*ck. Once you embrace the HTFU, the whole game starts to make a lot more sense and you'll stop making silly threads like this. ... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19792
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 05:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
When will people realize, Higher SP does not make EVE more fun to play.
Find a good corp and forget about needing 100's of millions S/p.
Just have fun. |
Eccon Dustwaver
Excalibur Industries
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Yes the training is in fact too slow. It is unfair to new players who ask for a level playing field. Those who are against lowering the training time are just Cowards and A-Holes who like to pick on lesser skilled newbies. I have been playing this game for a decade and know the attitude and nature of most EVE players and it isn't good. In the end it is the current attitude towards change that hurts this game. The Devs would be total idiots not to look into this issue. |
Eccon Dustwaver
Excalibur Industries
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19792
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players. They don't catch up faster. Partly because GÇ£catching upGÇ¥ doesn't apply to the EVE skill system and partly because the older players train at the same increased speed. If anything, the older players train faster since they can optimise their attributes to a far higher degree and get more out of that increase.
Oh andGǪQuote:The Devs would be total idiots not to look into this issue. They did. It has since been removed, having been replaced of sorts with age-imited implants (which, btw, benefit older players more). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16907
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Yes the training is in fact too slow. It is unfair to new players who ask for a level playing field. Those who are against lowering the training time are just Cowards and A-Holes who like to pick on lesser skilled newbies. I have been playing this game for a decade and know the attitude and nature of most EVE players and it isn't good. In the end it is the current attitude towards change that hurts this game. The Devs would be total idiots not to look into this issue. Why should they have a level playing field? Coming into a competitive game and expecting a level playing field is like expecting to beat Garry Kasparov at chess when you only learnt how to Castle yesterday. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
147
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
What I would like is that learning a high rank (12-16) skills would have more 'oompfh' when you finally get that racial carrier lvl V after 38days then just adding a few percent of stats and a filled up certificate but then again it risks that we'd be back in 'skill x at least lvl V or bust' situation.
|
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
253
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:First, a disclaimer:
- The real-time training concept is great - The 'order of magnitude' of the current training time feels right too. It gives you time to learn to fly stuff and makes that new ship class that you've waited weeks/months to get into all the more rewarding. It also gives progression in EVE that 'epic' pace that is pretty cool. I occasionally think that the rank system stretches things too much - although primarily when I was doing time sink skills (Advanced Spaceship Command for example). The base time is, in my opinion, actually too short. To get a rank 1 skill from skillbook to V is less than four days (with a peak remap and implants) - I would support stretching that to seven, a week to fully develop a skill seems about right. |
Tacomaco
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max.
To make it fair for everybody, all active accounts would receive an SP bonus of exactly ( 1 / 0.95-0.9 -1 = ) 5.26%-11.11% of their current SP.
Why not, because CCP are clueless about new players. Until you get to 2-3 mil SP the the training rate should be accelerated to 500-1000% then they can reduces it gradually to current levels when you get to 5-6 mil SP. The training is filled with all kind of bottlenecks that keeps basically at the same level for weeks or even months.
Some player asked on the forum how to set a training plan because he was away for a month. Somebody answered him to put in queue a skill that takes a month to train. A month!!!!!
Then again fixing this horrid training mechanic would impact their pay2win model were new characters are trained and sold more or less for real money.
Shorter train time would mean more players and they don't really want more players.
|
Tacomaco
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 08:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:[quote=Gully Alex Foyle]things too much - although primarily when I was doing time sink skills (Advanced Spaceship Command for example). The base time is, in my opinion, actually too short. To get a rank 1 skill from skillbook to V is less than four days (with a peak remap and implants) - I would support stretching that to seven, a week to fully develop a skill seems about right.
Coming from a player almost 10 years in the game is no surprise.
Who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll have a similar opinion. That is if no other company takes the good ideas from Eve and makes a game that would get the Eve players base. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16907
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tacomaco wrote:Why not, because CCP are clueless about new players. Until you get to 2-3 mil SP the the training rate should be accelerated to 500-1000% then they can reduces it gradually to current levels when you get to 5-6 mil SP. The training is filled with all kind of bottlenecks that keeps basically at the same level for weeks or even months. You need to brush up on your history, what you're suggesting would actually be a step backwards.
Newbies used to get a 100% boost to their skill training speed until they hit 1.6 million SP. It was removed when CCP dumped learning skills, and revamped the initial character stats so that your character attributes are a fair bit better than they were previously. Overall your character trains faster now than it has done at any time in the past.
Quote:Some player asked on the forum how to set a training plan because he was away for a month. Somebody answered him to put in queue a skill that takes a month to train. A month!!!!! And? It's been that way since day one.
Quote:Then again fixing this horrid training mechanic would impact their pay2win model were new characters are trained and sold more or less for real money. Pay2win? You're having a laugh, new characters ain't worth diddly in the character bazaar and they definitely aren't exchanged for real money, character sales are done with ingame currency, unless of course it's for sale on eBay which results in one thing, the ban hammer.
Quote:Shorter train time would mean more players and they don't really want more players. Of course they want new players, you're just spouting rubbish.
Quote:Who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll have a similar opinion. That is if no other company takes the good ideas from Eve and makes a game that would get the Eve players base. That's not going to happen, the best any rival will come up with is a wishy washy facsimile of Eve, and the majority of people play Eve precisely because it is a brutal game, wishy washy just ain't going to vut it for a lot of us. |
Chianti
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
Changing skill training time after so many years have passed would be totally unfair to those of us who have been here longest. You can't change rules in the middle of a game. It is unnecessary anyway since there is a lot you can do with any skill set. One of the things I love about Eve is that you need time and patience to work towards goals, it's not instant gratification then complain about no content like most MMO's. |
Eccon Dustwaver
Excalibur Industries
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tacomaco wrote:Jacob Holland wrote:[quote=Gully Alex Foyle]things too much - although primarily when I was doing time sink skills (Advanced Spaceship Command for example). The base time is, in my opinion, actually too short. To get a rank 1 skill from skillbook to V is less than four days (with a peak remap and implants) - I would support stretching that to seven, a week to fully develop a skill seems about right. Coming from a player almost 10 years in the game is no surprise. Who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll have a similar opinion. That is if no other company takes the good ideas from Eve and makes a game that would get the Eve players base. Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1242
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Skill training is too fast. Reduce it by 80%. The Tears Must Flow |
|
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Yes the training is in fact too slow. It is unfair to new players who ask for a level playing field. Those who are against lowering the training time are just Cowards and A-Holes who like to pick on lesser skilled newbies. I have been playing this game for a decade and know the attitude and nature of most EVE players and it isn't good. In the end it is the current attitude towards change that hurts this game. The Devs would be total idiots not to look into this issue.
If you've been playing this game for 10 years and think that having more SP is actually relevant once appropriate support skills have been trained up, then you are wrong. The reality is that since there is a finite amount of skillpoints that are needed to be able to fly a given ship "perfectly."
The only difference once you achieve that threshhold is breadth of ship choices. SP is irrelevant.
|
Rashnu Gorbani
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
The proposed 5-10% seems pretty arbitrary with no good reason provided. It could as well be 20%, or -10% and nothing really major would change. Seems pointless to me. I just started training a 34 days skill on a char and, well, it's long but then I knew it will be when I made the skill plan in evemon.
I know that 1-2 weeks, months old characters are really impatient, we all felt that when we were that new. But it's part of a challenge to find out what can you do with current skills, and what would be realistic short-mid-long term plans for you. Adjust skill plan for your game play goals. Don't make 2 year old plans on new characters unless it's an alt and you're really really patient...:) having realistic short term goals is important. Since the removal of learning skills it's very possible as well. |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:First, a disclaimer: - The real-time training concept is great - The 'order of magnitude' of the current training time feels right too. It gives you time to learn to fly stuff and makes that new ship class that you've waited weeks/months to get into all the more rewarding. It also gives progression in EVE that 'epic' pace that is pretty cool. But... Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max. To make it fair for everybody, all active accounts would receive an SP bonus of exactly ( 1 / 0.95-0.9 -1 = ) 5.26%-11.11% of their current SP. So all EVE players, new and old, would be able to do a little bit more stuff in the game. A new ship class, a bonus to the preferred weapon system, whatever. My assumption here is: a bit more opportunites for all = a bit more fun for all. And since it would be percentage-based, it shouldn't really make things easier for new players at the expense of the vets. The vets would get a hefty SP bonus indeed! That they could maybe use to more easily kill that HAC that the younger player just got into a few weeks earlier than before... Win-win maybe? Wouldn't we all love this? Wouldn't it also boost active player numbers ('hey lemme go try that brand new toy')? Final disclaimer: I know most threads are whiney these days. I'm not complaining, I'm a patient dude and I have tons of fun flying just frigs and dessies atm. Just thought this could be reasonable and a nice present for every EVE player I have no idea if this was even touched on as I didn't bother to read every single response in the thread. But I think that because Eve has such a high learning curve compared to other games the pacing of skill training as it stands is a huge benefit to new players. For some people first starting Eve the game can be very overwhelming. There is a lot to see, do and learn. The way the skills train allows for a players game knowledge to keep pace with their skill training. A player can get into a standard t1 battleship in about 3-4 days. I wouldn't advise it as it would be virtually impossible to fit it well enough to do much with it... but it is doable. Here is the problem: a new player doesn't have the support skills... but even MORE paramount imo is the fact that they don't have the knowledge necessary (even WITH the skills) to make it an effective platform. That's what training time in Eve can really do for a new player. It lets them fly the smaller ships and gives them the experience they need to make each platform they train into all the more effective. I am at 40+m sp right now and even though I have the experience necessary to fly most standard battleships... when I get my marauder I am still going to take my time with it to get used to how it flies, to see how fast it kills, to get an overall feel for how the performance of the ship will enhance my gameplay. But it takes... TIME. And as you are training your skills you have just that... time. Just my thoughts. Good luck in game. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
481
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:the rate is fine, given the absolutely ZERO risk in gaining it. unless you are stupid and like to pvp with a set of +5s...
would be nice to get all the way to +7s, but say, you must have a "training slot" available on a POS module of sorts. that way you are forced to join/create a corporation, and also forced and rewarded by having and defending a POS.
so long as the POS is standing and enough slots are available every character on that corp can benefit from the training bonus.
i don't think its a terrible idea, and training implants need to die. i do pvp witha full set of +5 (all implants ecept charisma one) since almost 2 years, never lost it.
granted it is low sec, but it is possible, the odds of getting your pod killed are really low down there unlike null and wh.
indeed, i DO however switch to a less expansive pod sometimes, mostly because i go null or wh, but overall, i don't spend more than a week / year in low with a non +5 pod. and i do pvp every day.
just know what you are doing, and accept you might loose it. |
Tacomaco
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
Rashnu Gorbani wrote: I know that 1-2 weeks, months old characters are really impatient, we all felt that when we were that new.
That's the problem here, for new charactes looking at the training queue is like watching grass grow. Probably none of the CCP devs ever looked at this from the perspective of a new players since the game launched.
Then some 5 year old players completely unable to put them self in the shoes of the new players come here with ideas like "oh, no, training is too fast"
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
Thanks to everyone for your feedback.
So far I counted:
. Toons that would leave things exactly as they currently are: 38 (a few light trolling / fooling around posts included)
. Toons that suggest some other change, but are still against the idea of faster training + SP bonus for all players: 7 (a few 'make it easier just for newbies' whines included, because yes my idea was intended to give vets a bigger advantage)
. Toons in favour of the idea: zero!
So 100% NO, of which 84% 'change nothing'. Amazing, I knew EVE players were hardcore, but this goes beyond my expectations!
So if say, next Christmas CCP gave all players a +5% SP gift instead of a Fedo, everybody would be very pissed off and come to the forums to say 'TAKE THE SP BACK, I WANT MY FEDO!'.
Cool! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19797
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tacomaco wrote:That's the problem here, for new charactes looking at the training queue is like watching grass grow. That's the problem right there: they shouldn't be looking at the training queue; they should be playing and learning the game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16910
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:37:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tacomaco should be required to train all of the learning skills, to level 5. It'd give them an idea of just how much better the skill training mechanic is now compared to the past. |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 10:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks to everyone for your feedback. So far I counted: . Toons that would leave things exactly as they currently are: 38 (a few light trolling / fooling around posts included) . Toons that suggest some other change, but are still against the idea of faster training + SP bonus for all players: 7 (a few 'make it easier just for newbies' whines included, because yes my idea was intended to give vets a bigger advantage) . Toons in favour of the idea: zero! So 100% NO, of which 84% 'change nothing'. Amazing, I knew EVE players were hardcore, but this goes beyond my expectations! So if say, next Christmas CCP gave all players a +5% SP gift instead of a Fedo, everybody would be very pissed off and come to the forums to say 'TAKE THE SP BACK, I WANT MY FEDO!'. Cool! Giving a 1 time bonus as a gift is not the same as a consistent permanent change. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
384
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 11:26:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tacomaco wrote:Rashnu Gorbani wrote: I know that 1-2 weeks, months old characters are really impatient, we all felt that when we were that new.
That's the problem here, for new charactes looking at the training queue is like watching grass grow. Probably none of the CCP devs ever looked at this from the perspective of a new players since the game launched. Then some 5 year old players completely unable to put them self in the shoes of the new players come here with ideas like "oh, no, training is too fast"
That is the problem ... WATCHING THE TRAINING QUEUE ...
Stop watching the training qqueue and play the d@mn game.
The real issue with new players is they come from other games and have no idea how irrelevant SP is in this game.
It takes over 20 years to train all skills so no one can WIN the SP thing. Most of my characters are only one or two month trained. Most older players stop training characters once they can do what they need to. A viable faction war character only needs 6 or 8 weeks training max.
Plus if you really want a high SP character just go to the character bazaar and get one.
Aside from anything eelse dumbing down games to suit whiney noobs has never helped any game ever ... just look what happened to D&D with 4th edition. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16937
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 11:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Plus if you really want a high SP character just go to the character bazaar and get one. Not that it'll do a newbie any good, because a newbie with a 100M SP character is still a newbie, with absolutely no idea about how to leverage that characters SP effectively, taking the pay2win (Tacomacos words not mine) shortcut invariably ends in tears, because Eve is as much about personal skills as it is about the characters skills.
|
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
594
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Plus if you really want a high SP character just go to the character bazaar and get one. Not that it'll do a newbie any good, because a newbie with a 100M SP character is still a newbie, with absolutely no idea about how to leverage that characters SP effectively, taking the pay2win (Tacomacos words not mine) shortcut invariably ends in tears, because Eve is as much about personal skills as it is about the characters skills.
^ What he said. EVE isn't about bigger and better, it's about using what you have to the best of your abilities. Often a frigate can turn out to be a far better tool for the job than the biggest ship you can fly - and they don't take a whole lot of training to use well. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Storm Novah wrote:Giving a 1 time bonus as a gift is not the same as a consistent permanent change. Not exactly the same, but very similar. Difference being the effect would be concentrated instead of distributed in time.
After a +5% SP gift, you'd have roughly the same SP that you would've had if the training time were 5% faster for the entire duration of your toons' 'active EVE lifespan' (adjusted for your remap/implant choices). Roughly 2.5 weeks/year, so 5-6 weeks in your case.
It would still have an impact on the character bazaar, for example, and still give people (especially older players) some new toys fast.
Are you saying you are less 'hardcore' than most of the other posters, and would oppose faster skill training but would welcome a one-time SP bonus to all active toons? |
Reiisha
Evolution
505
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:good advice to train faster and to make better use of the skills you already have unidenify wrote:good advice to train faster Hasikan Miallok wrote:good advice to train more effectively and to make better use of the skills you already have Nimrod vanHall wrote:good advice to train faster Thanks for the advice guys, but I'd like to clarify: I wasn't asking how to train faster/more effectively or how to have fun with the skills I have. I wanted to ask: wouldn't EVE be more fun for everybody - and still remaining pretty much the challenging game we all love - if we had a slight 5-10% boost both to current SP and to new SP progression? Or in other words: wouldn't you enjoy a slight skill boost? Remember 5-10% boost means you'd still have to train many many months for that Archon... still not 'instant gratification' by any measure.
This kind of change would only really benefit training skills from 4 to 5. Training 1 to 4 takes a LOT less time so the gains will be pretty much lost as they're simply not noticable, unless you decrease training time by 30% or more.
No one is stopping people from just training stuff to 4 and leaving it there, training other skills to 3 or 4 before training the first to 5...
This proposal assumes that everyone trains skills from 1 to 5 in one go and never trains up a new skill to 3 or 4 before the previous one is at 5. Therefore the proposal basically aims to fix bad planning and unreasonable goals, which is a player error, not a game design fault.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 13:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:No one is stopping people from just training stuff to 4 and leaving it there, training other skills to 3 or 4 before training the first to 5...
This proposal assumes that everyone trains skills from 1 to 5 in one go and never trains up a new skill to 3 or 4 before the previous one is at 5. Not really.
Training, say, racial Drone Specialization to V just adds +2% dmg bonus so yeah, most people would postpone it.
OTOH, Propulsion Jamming V is necessary to fly 'dictors and HICs, for example.
So the essence of the question was: do you think having more people able to fly around in T2 ships is a good idea? Would it make EVE a better place?
Vast majority answered no, I'm fine with that, it's cool that people like the 'pace' of the game as it is. |
Stigmus Vrekk
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 13:20:00 -
[86] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Stigmus Vrekk wrote:Being new to the EVE universe I haven't encountered the month + wait yet but I will say this: The skill que system in EVE is superior to any other mmo time sink skill grind method I've endured. That play style is for the birds. The que system here allows me to do more productive things while I wait... like study and learn the game. This man gets it.
Thank you sir.
Spreading dis-ease with mental wine & cheese since 79' |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
115
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 13:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
I understand the arguments of the op but honestly, the faster you interiorize the mantras of eve, the better for you, really. Come on, don't be shy, join the cult.
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Muestereate
Minions LLC
181
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 13:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
I think we could use a bit more in the beginning, there's a lull period after the training missions are run where the new guys have some cash but get a bit stuck in level ones and can't pull twos. Granted they learn some other valuable lessons like how painful ship loss can be without a plex and the idea of training being important gets burned into their mind at this time. Its not very fun though. I'd like to see the numbers for accounts quitting during this time. It often takes a lot of convincing to get them over the hump. THen the pace becomes about right and before you know it they are moving right along.
The lull might be addicting, to me it could be costing subscriptions but more to the point of this thread. THe noobs build up a lot of caution that costs them fun if they don't have someone pushing or pulling them on. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
Good Posting wrote:I understand the arguments of the op but honestly, the faster you interiorize the mantras of eve, the better for you, really. Come on, don't be shy, join the cult. Ah, but I am mate.
Got into solo lowsec PVP in my second month (80 kills / 120 losses, and yes SP was rarely if ever the deciding factor) and now I'm hosting a hot topic on GD - which is arguably riskier than throwing away 120 T1 frigs...
Doing my best to become a cultist, with or without Cruiser V!
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:I think we could use a bit more in the beginning, there's a lull period after the training missions are run where the new guys have some cash but get a bit stuck in level ones and can't pull twos. Granted they learn some other valuable lessons like how painful ship loss can be without a plex and the idea of training being important gets burned into their mind at this time. Its not very fun though. I'd like to see the numbers for accounts quitting during this time. It often takes a lot of convincing to get them over the hump. THen the pace becomes about right and before you know it they are moving right along.
The lull might be addicting, to me it could be costing subscriptions but more to the point of this thread. THe noobs build up a lot of caution that costs them fun if they don't have someone pushing or pulling them on. I would argue lvl 2s are pretty much doable in your first week, lvl3s in your 2nd or 3rd. If you enjoy a little bit of challenge, that is.
The first real lull I came across is when you need V in lots of rank 2s and higher to gain access to T2 ship classes and gear.
But by then, you're already pretty much hooked. |
|
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1301
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 14:35:00 -
[91] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:OP obviously wasn't here when we had to train for 3 months just to get started properly by maxing learning skills, those were the
days. Now most of the attributes are maxed, skill training is actually very fast in comparison to what it was ... The old learning skills need to return. Learning skills weeded out lots of the whiners early on. I remember the big debate of training to 4 or 5 before starting other skills. I chose 4 because I was willing to trade some loss in SP gain for being able to actually do stuff. Learning skills forced you to think and to set priorities and were the first big training decision you had to make instead of handing you the easy way out. this is exactly what 'amateur' players couldn't do. So they demanded learning skills to be removed The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
240
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 16:51:00 -
[92] - Quote
Bruce Kemp wrote: When will people realize, Higher SP does not make EVE more fun to play. Find a good corp and forget about needing 100's of millions S/p. Just have fun.
Fun is a matter of opinion. You have your own, and do not get to dictate to others what theirs is. Some like large ships; some want to fly carriers, as an example. They consider that fun.
That being said, I will also jump on the "no" bandwagon.
Training speed is slow and painful. Some fought through that pain to get where they are. To remove it now would make their achievements worth less. If you need instant gratification, buy a character using legit methods. |
Marsha Mallow
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 17:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
I doubt a 5% buff to skilltraining would be all that noticeable in all honesty. Older players do eventually learn about dimishing returns, it's rare to see them complain about skilltraining times.
I can see why newer players might want a slight buff early on - and I suspect most people remember varying degrees of frustration - hence the ongoing debate about whether initial skilltraining adversely affects player retention. There's an idea here suggesting changes to new characters - which I don't suport - but the comments section highlights why people are divided over change.
If issues about skill progression have roots largely in new player ignorance about what to train and how far perhaps there could be a better explanation about skilltraining in the NPE, or even a few core basic skillplans like the one in Tippia's sig. I love Evemon and 3rd party apps, but it is annoying that something as basic as a skillplanner isn't integrated into the game. - |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19812
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 17:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:So the essence of the question was: do you think having more people able to fly around in T2 ships is a good idea? Would it make EVE a better place? No, the essence of the question was: would it be better if everyone trained faster. It has nothing to do with T2.
If getting into T2 ships faster was the intended end-state, there are far better ways of doing that than changing every skill in the game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No, the essence of the question was: would it be better if everyone trained faster. It has nothing to do with T2.
If getting into T2 ships faster was the intended end-state, there are far better ways of doing that than changing every skill in the game. You are correct, my OP was generic.
But yes, the end-state I had in mind was pretty much an EVE-universe with more people in T2s. Not because T1 is bad in any way, nor because T2s are necesarily more powerful. Just because they open up more options, specifically in pvp (which is my main interest).
The idea that seemed appealing is having more often different ships with different abilities on the field. In solo, gang, fleet combat whatever. I figured that would make for more interesting gameplay for all, newbies and vets alike.
On the side, I thought achieving this with a flat 'faster training' could have a similar positive effect (more variety) on other EVE carreers as well.
Vast majority of people seem pretty much ok with the way things are though, and seem concerned that having new toys faster would take some of the value out of them. Do you have a different take, specifically on 'time-to-acquire' T2 ships? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10259
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:10:00 -
[96] - Quote
I like the fact that even after a decade of playing EVE I still have a lot of things I have yet to train. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Winchester Steele
367
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 18:34:00 -
[97] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Tacomaco wrote:Jacob Holland wrote:[quote=Gully Alex Foyle]things too much - although primarily when I was doing time sink skills (Advanced Spaceship Command for example). The base time is, in my opinion, actually too short. To get a rank 1 skill from skillbook to V is less than four days (with a peak remap and implants) - I would support stretching that to seven, a week to fully develop a skill seems about right. Coming from a player almost 10 years in the game is no surprise. Who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll have a similar opinion. That is if no other company takes the good ideas from Eve and makes a game that would get the Eve players base. Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.
Don't let the door hit you and your fellow fairweather capsuleers on the way out. Enjoy your vaporware. ... |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
272
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 19:30:00 -
[98] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:They should create skills that help you train skills faster.
Have 2 types:
1 Standard set for each attribute. 1 Advanced set for each attribute.
The standard set can be just Rank 1 skills and the Advanced set can be like Rank 3 skills. Both the Standard and the Advanced would raise the attribute by 1 point.
And then have one skill that affects all five attributes and adds like 2% per level for each level you train, with +10% at Level V.
Would that help with what the OP is looking for? This is such a fabulous idea I think the csm should make it a priority!
...
Learning skills were the worst.
There are a few sets of skills that could be re-balanced in terms of training times/requirements/power (I'm looking at you drone skills, grr), but there's no reason to decrease training times across the board. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Muestereate
Minions LLC
181
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 19:50:00 -
[99] - Quote
ANother issue, and I only jest a bit relates to players with lots of skills. CCP has to keep swinging the nerf bat because of our level 5's and large fleets. I fear that they can't swing it fast enough if they increase skills across the board. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1781
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
As new player you are obliged to be an easy prey for older players who paid for this right few hundreds bucks during many years. Accept your fate and wait 2-4 years till you'll join ranks of easy-mode veterans. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19815
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 20:50:00 -
[101] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:As new player you are obliged to be an easy prey for older players No, you really aren't, which is why this whole SP anxiety that's been cropping up all over the place lately is such a non-problem.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 21:46:00 -
[102] - Quote
did not read the wall but title.... short answer
[*] Dont just think outside the box, Live outside of it... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3028
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote: Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.
Yes, Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4267
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 22:26:00 -
[104] - Quote
Skill training has been massively buffed over the years.
Removal of learning skills, adding remaps and reduced prerequisites for example.
But still not good enough for some, it seems. If CCP reduced times by 5%, it wouldn't be a week before people were crying for 10%. Just leave well enough alone or we'll be training titans in a week soon enough.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:36:00 -
[105] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Storm Novah wrote:Giving a 1 time bonus as a gift is not the same as a consistent permanent change. Not exactly the same, but very similar. Difference being the effect would be concentrated instead of distributed in time. After a +5% SP gift, you'd have roughly the same SP that you would've had if the training time were 5% faster for the entire duration of your toons' 'active EVE lifespan' (adjusted for your remap/implant choices). Roughly 2.5 weeks/year, so 5-6 weeks in your case. It would still have an impact on the character bazaar, for example, and still give people (especially older players) some new toys fast. Are you saying you are less 'hardcore' than most of the other posters, and would oppose faster skill training but would welcome a one-time SP bonus to all active toons? Actually I oppose both... neither one is necessary and while it may boost "older" players more than new players doesn't make it any more or less a benefit. The training speed as it currently sits is balanced and I see no valid reason to mess with something that works. |
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:39:00 -
[106] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:First, a disclaimer: - The real-time training concept is great - The 'order of magnitude' of the current training time feels right too. It gives you time to learn to fly stuff and makes that new ship class that you've waited weeks/months to get into all the more rewarding. It also gives progression in EVE that 'epic' pace that is pretty cool. But... Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max. To make it fair for everybody, all active accounts would receive an SP bonus of exactly ( 1 / 0.95-0.9 -1 = ) 5.26%-11.11% of their current SP. So all EVE players, new and old, would be able to do a little bit more stuff in the game. A new ship class, a bonus to the preferred weapon system, whatever. My assumption here is: a bit more opportunites for all = a bit more fun for all. And since it would be percentage-based, it shouldn't really make things easier for new players at the expense of the vets. The vets would get a hefty SP bonus indeed! That they could maybe use to more easily kill that HAC that the younger player just got into a few weeks earlier than before... Win-win maybe? Wouldn't we all love this? Wouldn't it also boost active player numbers ('hey lemme go try that brand new toy')? Final disclaimer: I know most threads are whiney these days. I'm not complaining, I'm a patient dude and I have tons of fun flying just frigs and dessies atm. Just thought this could be reasonable and a nice present for every EVE player
skill training to slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ?
Nope its not too slow for me working as intended.
Just train your skill to lvl 5 so you can use the + 5 implants to train your skills faster that helps I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a input in the EvE forum
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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
So you think Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content.
I don't think so Star Citizen will destroy EvE.
EvE has a niece market and dose more than Star Citizen will ever do.
I have had a look at Star Citizen for me its too complex as a game.
Where with EvE I do understand the concept of this great game we have.
So those people who are going to run over to Star Citizen good luck with that game because there are going to be allot of whining on Star Citizen fourms as well.
Because with EvE CCP are always going to expand on this great game we have and this game I am going to stick with for years to come.
At least EvE will be free of those Whiners who complains about this and that on these EvE fourms.
EvE will still be around long after Star Citizen dies out.
I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a input in the EvE forum
|
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 23:58:00 -
[108] - Quote
45thtiger 0109 wrote:So you think Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content. I don't think so Star Citizen will destroy EvE. EvE has a niece market and dose more than Star Citizen will ever do. I have had a look at Star Citizen for me its too complex as a game. Where with EvE I do understand the concept of this great game we have. So those people who are going to run over to Star Citizen good luck with that game because there are going to be allot of whining on Star Citizen fourms as well. Because with EvE CCP are always going to expand on this great game we have and this game I am going to stick with EvE for years to come. At least EvE will be free of those Whiners who complains about this and that on these EvE fourms. EvE will still be around long after Star Citizen dies out.
I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a input in the EvE forum
|
Tonai Kion
Rock Breaker Industrial
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:16:00 -
[109] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Tippia wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players.
As a newbie flying a mining ship most of the time, I disagree.
I've got modest combat skills (most basic ones to level 3 i think), no ewar, no skills in warp disruption, or anything.
This morning my corp mates decided to go cause some trouble in low-sec. They asked if anyone wanted to tag along and do some pvp.
I asked if they minded a fail fit frigate joining them on their escapade.
They were like "who the hell cares what you fly, let's go shoot some stuff."
I learned how to use my directional scanner this morning, how to scout a gate, basic shot calling and how to use E-WAR and disruption.
We ended our little frigate and cruiser fleet fighting a battle cruiser on a gate. He was bait for two more battle cruisers to come in and shoot at us. We all managed to get away and called it quits after that.
The whole time I'm still training that mining skill that I need to get to 5 for Exhumers.
SP don't matter. Teamwork does. |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
250
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:17:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: Because EVE players love spreadsheets and math:
* Level 1 = 250 SP * Level 2 = 1415 SP * Level 3 = 8000 SP * Level 4 = 45255 SP * Level 5 = 256000 SP
Training time of level 4 vs. level 5: Level 4 / Level 5 = 45255 / 256000 = level 4 is 17.68% of level 5
You can train (256000 - 45255) / 45255 = 4.66 same rank skills to level 4 in the same amount of time as training one skill to level 5.
I feel as though the major benefits from leveling up slowed down when my characters hit around 20m SP or so, and become rather insignificant at around 50m SP. So you can pilot a good number of ships with adequate SP in under a year, and most T2s by two. You probably could get this even faster if you only focus on one or two races/weapon types or ship classes. For a game that has been around for over ten years I would say that freshman year is a nice time segment for a rookie. |
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
208
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:19:00 -
[111] - Quote
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Tacomaco wrote:Jacob Holland wrote:[quote=Gully Alex Foyle]things too much - although primarily when I was doing time sink skills (Advanced Spaceship Command for example). The base time is, in my opinion, actually too short. To get a rank 1 skill from skillbook to V is less than four days (with a peak remap and implants) - I would support stretching that to seven, a week to fully develop a skill seems about right. Coming from a player almost 10 years in the game is no surprise. Who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll have a similar opinion. That is if no other company takes the good ideas from Eve and makes a game that would get the Eve players base. Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.
Do you seriously think SC will do anything to eve in the long run? Have you not read anything about it? Compaired to eve its wow in space.
"Ooo we can pvp.. if you set the slider to pvp, and then my dice role works out'
'ooo I can gank people.... but not loot there wrecks... but i'm gonna be a pirate!'
'ooo I can try and steal ships... if my mates all on and if I can find anyone...'
Honestly, SC looks flashy, will prolly be fun, but that's like saying 'oh your 10 year old Mazarati (sp?) is no match for my new and shiney Prius!' No.. its the same product that does thigns differently. SC should not impact eve much, you will get some who will jump, but any one who enjoys the meta game of eve will jump back. You will lose people who just want to play eve with joysticks or who cries at any pvp.
And yes off topic, but they hype over SC is a load of garbage. |
Novah Soul
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:22:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tonai Kion wrote:Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Tippia wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players. As a newbie flying a mining ship most of the time, I disagree. I've got modest combat skills (most basic ones to level 3 i think), no ewar, no skills in warp disruption, or anything. This morning my corp mates decided to go cause some trouble in low-sec. They asked if anyone wanted to tag along and do some pvp. I asked if they minded a fail fit frigate joining them on their escapade. They were like "who the hell cares what you fly, let's go shoot some stuff." I learned how to use my directional scanner this morning, how to scout a gate, basic shot calling and how to use E-WAR and disruption. We ended our little frigate and cruiser fleet fighting a battle cruiser on a gate. He was bait for two more battle cruisers to come in and shoot at us. We all managed to get away and called it quits after that. The whole time I'm still training that mining skill that I need to get to 5 for Exhumers. SP don't matter. Teamwork does. See this? This man gets it. Good work |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
388
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 00:44:00 -
[113] - Quote
Novah Soul wrote:Tonai Kion wrote:Eccon Dustwaver wrote:Tippia wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine. The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now. Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30GÇô40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1GÇô2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as GÇ£improving things for the newbiesGÇ¥ when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits. You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players. As a newbie flying a mining ship most of the time, I disagree. I've got modest combat skills (most basic ones to level 3 i think), no ewar, no skills in warp disruption, or anything. This morning my corp mates decided to go cause some trouble in low-sec. They asked if anyone wanted to tag along and do some pvp. I asked if they minded a fail fit frigate joining them on their escapade. They were like "who the hell cares what you fly, let's go shoot some stuff." I learned how to use my directional scanner this morning, how to scout a gate, basic shot calling and how to use E-WAR and disruption. We ended our little frigate and cruiser fleet fighting a battle cruiser on a gate. He was bait for two more battle cruisers to come in and shoot at us. We all managed to get away and called it quits after that. The whole time I'm still training that mining skill that I need to get to 5 for Exhumers. SP don't matter. Teamwork does. See this? This man gets it. Good work
yep, good to see some people do it right.
I would also add that the biggest issue with new players is often an insane rush to get into either a battleship or a T3, bypassing all the other options in between. I recall a guy on one chat complaining loudly that about how his CEO was making him "waste" 7 days getting Racial Frigate V (opening up Interceptors, Assault Frigates, Covops and Ewar Frigates) when he was keen to get into a Battleship.
Speeding up the skill training would actually make that tendency even worse.
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