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TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
173
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Posted - 2014.03.09 11:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
When the CEP and the Senate agreed the Caldari Prime DMZ, and agreed to have dual sovereignty on Caldari Prime. Should it also included dual sovereignty for the Luminaire solar system.
CEP agreed that the Gallente distrcits will be considered full citizens of the Federation and fall under Federal law. Agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens on the planet with Mordus Legion solely responsible for defense and policing of the planet.
Without dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system, only the Gallente citizens are protected once they leave the planet. Many Caldari citizens have to run the gauntlet of trying to evade the Federation navy trying to kill them, when wanting to go down to the planet or leave due to bad security standings with the Federation.
As the agreement stands at the moment without dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system, we have agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens and the Federation have carte blanche to kill Caldari whenever they want.
So should the CEP and the Senate look to amend the treaty and include dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system into the treaty. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3258
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 11:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meanwhile, those of us who HAVEN'T spent months on end making bitter enemies of the Federation are free to pass unimpeded.
Would we be happy to see a known and volatile enemy of the State enter New Caldari? Even on the entirely believable claim to be visiting their sweet, frail old grandmother?
Meeting people halfway by definition includes not being unreasonable, and it is unreasonable to expect the Federation not to exercise basic security measures simply because of one planet's unique sovereignty status. They would, rightly, view such a setup as a threat to their national security simply because it would represent an unguarded spot along their border where extremists like Dragonaurs could slip through past Tripwire and gain access to the homeworld that is undisputed and undisputably theirs. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4287
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Posted - 2014.03.09 12:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
No, sorry, you don't get to openly support murder and slavery, act apologist for a terrorist organisation, name your own corporation after that selfsame terrorist organisation, serve in a militia that's openly attempting to seize control of sovereign Federal worlds that the State has never and will never have a claim to, associate with and encourage a rogue State capsuleer who advocates wholesale genocide, work up a huge negative standing with the Federation and then have the gall to whine that you can't enter our space to visit a planet that - let us not forget - regardless of any argument over who should actually own it, your nation violated almost every treaty and agreement that you'd ever signed with the Federation and nearly every clause of the CONCORD founding charter to seize control of by ramming a gigantic military fleet into our sovereign space.
Caldari Prime is rightfully a Caldari planet, but Luminaire is rightfully a Federation system. The Gallente were busy exploring it before your people had split the atom or my people had developed a steam turbine. Regardless of how strong a claim the State has to the planet, expecting the Federation to cede control of any territory so deep within its own borders is asking much - but for Caldari Prime itself, I believe such a price is easily worth paying if it will bring greater peace and understanding between our two nations. But demanding - or hell, for that matter, even politely asking - that they cede the entire system to dual-nation management is an utter absurdity.
Thanks to the recent demilitarisation of the planet's aerospace and the surprisingly even-handed security provided by neutral operator Mordu's Legion, any Caldari who isn't actively hostile to the Federation can freely visit their ancestral homeworld with very little issue - in fact, so far as I'm aware, that's actually part of the terms of the agreement. I very deeply hope that in the fullness of time, the State can be granted full, unconditional control of the planet and its immediate aerospace, which would finally allow for relationships between our two nations to be normalised.
Perhaps if you want to visit Caldari Prime, you should leave the militia, train Diplomacy, start running some agent missions for the Federation and repair your damaged standings. Believe it or not, that's actually what I did when my standing with the State dropped dangerously low. Mane 614
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
919
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Posted - 2014.03.09 12:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:When the CEP and the Senate agreed the Caldari Prime DMZ, and agreed to have dual sovereignty on Caldari Prime. Should it also included dual sovereignty for the Luminaire solar system.
CEP agreed that the Gallente distrcits will be considered full citizens of the Federation and fall under Federal law. Agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens on the planet with Mordus Legion solely responsible for defense and policing of the planet.
Without dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system, only the Gallente citizens are protected once they leave the planet. Many Caldari citizens have to run the gauntlet of trying to evade the Federation navy trying to kill them, when wanting to go down to the planet or leave due to bad security standings with the Federation.
As the agreement stands at the moment without dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system, we have agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens and the Federation have carte blanche to kill Caldari whenever they want.
So should the CEP and the Senate look to amend the treaty and include dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system into the treaty. These are fine examples, that Gallente are completely unable to provide dual sovereignty and follow interests of both Caldari and gallenteans. Such dual sovereignty is simply impossible under their mischievous control. The system itself as a whole should be transferred to Caldari control. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 13:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Meanwhile, those of us who HAVEN'T spent months on end making bitter enemies of the Federation are free to pass unimpeded.
Would we be happy to see a known and volatile enemy of the State enter New Caldari? Even on the entirely believable claim to be visiting their sweet, frail old grandmother?
Meeting people halfway by definition includes not being unreasonable, and it is unreasonable to expect the Federation not to exercise basic security measures simply because of one planet's unique sovereignty status. They would, rightly, view such a setup as a threat to their national security simply because it would represent an unguarded spot along their border where extremists like Dragonaurs could slip through past Tripwire and gain access to the homeworld that is undisputed and undisputably theirs.
Stitcher-Haan i do not understand why you would oppose the idea of dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system. Im not saying that the Gallente homeworld should be any less secure. It should be able to have just the same security it has now, as it would with dual sovereignty.
It would guarantee the safety of the Gallente citizens in the Luminaire solar system as well as Caldari citizens. We guaranteed the safety of the Gallente people on Caldari Prime. Caldari citizens need the same security from the Federation navy when travelling in the Luminaire solar system. Dual sovereignty would meet this purpose, and stop Federation navy from attacking Caldari citizens.
I dont know why you would be against a solution that prevents the deaths of Caldari citizens by the Federation navy, when they visit the homeworld.
It is hard to guard against terrorists attacks. If they are determined to do something they usually find away. Again i dont see why having dual sovereignty should make the system any less secure, or make terrorist attacks be more likely to happen than they already are.
How long will this treaty last, if the Federation navy are allowed to continue killing Caldari citizens visiting and leaving homeworld. Isnt this aggression of the Federation navy against Caldari citizens in the solar system not likely to bring violence back down to the planet.
Shouldnt dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system be the next step in the peace process |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 14:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Meanwhile, those of us who HAVEN'T spent months on end making bitter enemies of the Federation are free to pass unimpeded.
The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for ones country. It is a proud privilege to be a soldier. |
Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
296
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 15:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
We don't exactly have a sterling record of keeping our agreements with the Gallente. I'm surprised they're being as gracious as they are now that they don't have to be (under threat of the Leviathan). Probably not brilliant to test the limits of their hospitality. CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties |
Lucien Rouen
6
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Posted - 2014.03.09 15:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
The easiest answer to this would be: no, because there is no de facto dual sovereignty in the system. Without that, why should it be formalized? Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. |
Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
23
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Posted - 2014.03.09 17:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can certainly appreciate for the time being the need for a Dual Sovereignty agreement on Caldari Prime, especially in regards to the non-capsuleer population living on the planet.
Suggestions however, of making the entire Luminaire system fall under dual sovereignty are ludicrous at best, and such ideas should not even be entertained. Dual Sovereignty over the entire system would only be an open invitation to extremists and create a powder keg of a situation.
The Federation Navy's responsibility in the system is to protect both the sovereignty of The Federation, it's assets, travelers who are not hostile, and to enforce the laws of the Federation.
As Mr. Ixiris has already pointed out, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against The Federation be allowed safe passage in the Luminaire system? |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4289
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 18:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:How long will this treaty last, if the Federation navy are allowed to continue killing Caldari citizens visiting and leaving homeworld. Isnt this aggression of the Federation navy against Caldari citizens in the solar system not likely to bring violence back down to the planet. Attempting to paint the Federation Navy as exhibiting aggression against random Caldari citizens is the height of mendacity. The Federation Navy is only shooting at capsuleers, and specifically only capsuleers who have made themselves deeply unwelcome in Federation space - by, for example, assisting in the armed occupation of sovereign Federation systems or destroying Federal assets.
There are thousands of Caldari capsuleers who do business in the Federation every single hour of every single day. Notably, none of them
TomHorn wrote:Shouldnt dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system be the next step in the peace process No, demanding that you're given something you are not and never were by any means entitled entitled to is not the next step in a peace process. That's called making unreasonable demands. The Senate didn't have to make the agreement whereby the State got to keep half of Caldari Prime - but they did, and it was about the most magnanimous guesture the Senate had the authority to make. Demanding that they make even more concessions - such as ceding sovereignty of a core system - is a deeply unwise course of action. The Senate, perhaps moreso than any other governing body in the cluster, has a limited supply of patience.
Considering this, it's perhaps very fortunate that the CEP doesn't let Provist apologists anywhere near the peace process. Mane 614
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James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
809
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 18:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:When the CEP and the Senate agreed the Caldari Prime DMZ, and agreed to have dual sovereignty on Caldari Prime. Should it also included dual sovereignty for the Luminaire solar system.
CEP agreed that the Gallente distrcits will be considered full citizens of the Federation and fall under Federal law. Agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens on the planet with Mordus Legion solely responsible for defense and policing of the planet.
Without dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system, only the Gallente citizens are protected once they leave the planet. Many Caldari citizens have to run the gauntlet of trying to evade the Federation navy trying to kill them, when wanting to go down to the planet or leave due to bad security standings with the Federation.
As the agreement stands at the moment without dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system, we have agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens and the Federation have carte blanche to kill Caldari whenever they want.
So should the CEP and the Senate look to amend the treaty and include dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system into the treaty. No. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
156
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 22:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: It would guarantee the safety of the Gallente citizens in the Luminaire solar system
How and from what? We seem to be perfectly safe, what with it being one of our core systems and all, it's well defended by our fleets. Unless someone is planning a full scale invasion.... The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2182
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 22:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sticher and Ixiris put it perfectly. I can't contribute much to this conversation other than reminding you how bad of an idea this is. So without further ado...
This idea is bad and you should feel bad. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
157
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 22:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Sticher and Ixiris put it perfectly. I can't contribute much to this conversation other than reminding you how bad of an idea this is. So without further ado...
This idea is bad and you should feel bad. Not only is it bad, it is wrong. There should be a newer, more powerful word for it. Like badwrong, or badong...
The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 01:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Noden Vorpalstar wrote: As Mr. Ixiris has already pointed out, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against The Federation be allowed safe passage in the Luminaire system?
I could turn that around Noden, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against the Caldari be given dual sovereignty and security in our homeworld.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:No, demanding that you're given something you are not and never were by any means entitled entitled to is not the next step in a peace process. That's called making unreasonable demands. The Senate didn't have to make the agreement whereby the State got to keep half of Caldari Prime - but they did, and it was about the most magnanimous guesture the Senate had the authority to make. Demanding that they make even more concessions - such as ceding sovereignty of a core system - is a deeply unwise course of action. The Senate, perhaps moreso than any other governing body in the cluster, has a limited supply of patience.
Dont talk to me about unreasonable demands Andreus. The Gallente have never been entitled to rule or hold sovereignty over Caldari Prime. After Heth retook back the planet for the State all we have heard from the Gallente are demands for us to hand back control over to them.
The Senate didnt agree to give half of Caldari Prime to the State. The CEP agreed to give half the planet to the Federation. The planet was never conquered. So their was no magnanimous gesture from the Senate. Caldari State had full control of the planet. We gave the Gallente dual sovereignty on our homeworld even though they are hostile towards us. We have guaranteed their security on the planet even though they are hostile towards us. Yes the CEP have been very magnanimous towards the Gallente and the Senate.
Now Caldari citizens need to be given the same security in the Luminaire solar system as the Gallente receive on Caldari Prime. This continued attacking of Caldari capsuleers and Caldari citizens by the Federation navy is unacceptable. To say that it is acceptable reeks of hypocrisy. This killing of Caldari by the Federation navy is reminder of the first Gallente , Caldari war and the blockades, and the attacks we suffered back then by the Federation navy.
I dont see why you Gallente would be against dual sovereignty. To say that you would be less secure and vulnerable to extremeists is fallacy. Continued killing of Caldari citizens in the Luminaire solar system is not helpfull for lasting peace on Caldari Prime. With dual sovereignty there would be no killing of Gallente or Caldari citizens in the solar system just like the situation on the ground on Caldari Prime. Maybe this could be the final step to a lasting peace. |
Skye Nico
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.03.10 03:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:
I could turn that around Noden, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against the Caldari be given dual sovereignty and security in our homeworld.
We have sovereignty. You can't give us anything. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4301
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 08:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:The Senate didnt agree to give half of Caldari Prime to the State. The CEP agreed to give half the planet to the Federation. The planet was never conquered. So their was no magnanimous gesture from the Senate. Caldari State had full control of the planet. No you didn't. After the Shiigeru and Octopus Squardon was destroyed during Operation Highlander, the Federation obtained full space superiority over Caldari Prime. Had it desired to, it could most likely have seized control of the entire planet without leaving anything for the State. At that point the State did have a narrow advantage on the ground, but that wouldn't have been sustainable with no orbital support and no way to reinforce or resupply ground forces. The Senate could have organised such a reconquest (I'm not going to insult the Caldari I respect by calling it a "liberation.") but they didn't. They sought the best agreement they could think of that could secure a reasonable guarantee of safety for the billions of Federal citizens on Caldari Prime without kicking the war with the State into even higher gear.
TomHorn wrote:Now Caldari citizens need to be given the same security in the Luminaire solar system as the Gallente receive on Caldari Prime. They already have it.
TomHorn wrote:This continued attacking of Caldari capsuleers and Caldari citizens by the Federation navy is unacceptable. Again, the Federation Navy is not just randomly attacking Caldari citizens. At all. It is only attacking capsuleers who are actively hostile to the Federation, which means that they're doing their job. Note that this does not simply apply to capsuleers in the State Protectorate - it also applies to pilots of the 24th Imperial Crusade (who are equally if not more unwelcome in Federal space) and unaligned pilots who have nonetheless demonstrated sustained and specific hostility towards the Federation and its interests.
Let me make this very clear - if you're a capsuleer and the Federation Navy is shooting at you whenever you try to enter Federal space, you didn't end up in that position by accident.
TomHorn wrote:I dont see why you Gallente would be against dual sovereignty. Firstly, I'm not Gallente, I'm Intaki, and it would behoove Provists to understand this distinction when attempting glib forms of address. Secondly, Federal loyalists are against dual sovereignty in the Luminaire system because it's our system, and demanding that we cede total control of it is entirely unreasonable because unlike Caldari Prime itself, the State has no reasonable claim to it. I would be all in favour of returning sovereignty of Caldari Prime to the State in its entirety, but there are a lot of complex political issues - not least a war of aggression which, while eagerly continued by Roden's corrupt government, was indeed started by the State, even if it was under Heth's equally corrupt command.
I mean, let's just clarify something here, Horn - your suggestion won't ever be implemented. Let's just take a moment to acknowledge that fact, alright? It's not going to happen. Mane 614
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TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
173
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Posted - 2014.03.10 09:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:I mean, let's just clarify something here, Horn - your suggestion won't ever be implemented. Let's just take a moment to acknowledge that fact, alright? It's not going to happen.
If this injustice in the solar system by the Federation navy on Caldari will not be resolved. The families who have lost loved ones will turn to the Caldari resistance fighter on the ground for justice. Bombings of Gallente areas and shooting of Gallente citizens.
The treaty is destined to fail. Its bad treaty for the Caldari as it stands now. A treaty that may have the black hand of Caldari traitors on it. Let it fail. Have a nice day Andreus.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4301
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Posted - 2014.03.10 09:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:If this injustice in the solar system by the Federation navy on Caldari will not be resolved. The families who have lost loved ones will turn to the Caldari resistance fighter on the ground for justice. Bombings of Gallente areas and shooting of Gallente citizens. I feel like you're talking to an imaginary audience instead of the people in this thread, because your rhetoric is trying to appeal to a demographic that quite bluntly does not exist. The only families who are losing loved ones are those of crewmen aboard the ships of capsuleers who have become Federal persona non grata. These people are:
a. not exclusively Caldari, as there are hundreds if not thousands of non-Caldari capsuleers who have accrued enough negative standings with the Federation to make themselves unwelcome, and even the crew onboard Caldari starships purchased in Caldari territory is never guaranteed to be 100% Caldari. b. almost always well aware of the risks that their family were taking. c. probably going to be aware that the capsuleer got his day ruined for entering Federation space when he wasn't welcome there.
Like I've said before, Horn, if you want to visit Federation space without risk, drop membership in the militia and grind a few agent missions.
TomHorn wrote:The treaty is destined to fail. Its bad treaty for the Caldari as it stands now. A treaty that may have the black hand of Caldari traitors on it. No. I don't think the Provists had anything to do with this treaty. Mane 614
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
920
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: I dont know why you would be against a solution that prevents the deaths of Caldari citizens by the Federation navy, when they visit the homeworld.
Mr. Stitcher is a traitor, he would prefer to spill blood of Caldari, instead of spilling blood of gallenteans.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
920
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:We don't exactly have a sterling record of keeping our agreements with the Gallente. I'm surprised they're being as gracious as they are now that they don't have to be (under threat of the Leviathan). Probably not brilliant to test the limits of their hospitality. 'Hospitality'?! After they crashed their supercarriers into our stations? After they defaced ancient relics on Caldari Prime? After they bombed our planet? After they occupied it... twice? After they attacked our titan on low orbit of our planet to crashland it?
Just blast these gallenteans out from our planet, burn every one of them and rain down their burnt bodies from orbit to villore or gallente prime!
That sort of 'hospitality' they deserve. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
920
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Noden Vorpalstar wrote:I can certainly appreciate for the time being the need for a Dual Sovereignty agreement on Caldari Prime, especially in regards to the non-capsuleer population living on the planet.
Suggestions however, of making the entire Luminaire system fall under dual sovereignty are ludicrous at best, and such ideas should not even be entertained. Dual Sovereignty over the entire system would only be an open invitation to extremists and create a powder keg of a situation.
The Federation Navy's responsibility in the system is to protect the sovereignty of The Federation, it's assets, travelers who are not hostile, and to enforce the laws of the Federation.
As Mr. Ixiris has already pointed out, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against The Federation be allowed safe passage in the Luminaire system? Because this system must be under our control, not kakku. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
920
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Quote:I mean, let's just clarify something here, Horn - your suggestion won't ever be implemented. Let's just take a moment to acknowledge that fact, alright? It's not going to happen. If this injustice in the solar system by the Federation navy on Caldari will not be resolved. The families who have lost loved ones will turn to the Caldari resistance fighter on the ground for justice. Bombings of Gallente areas and shooting of Gallente citizens. The treaty is destined to fail. Its bad treaty for the Caldari as it stands now. A treaty that may have the black hand of Caldari traitors on it. Let it fail. Have a nice day Andreus. This Andreus is just a deluded gallentean kid. There is no even real reason to argue with him. Just blast him on sight, if he will dare to undock, and deal with it. He won't say anything worth anyway.
And I agree with you, that this "treaty" is insulting and a borderline treason against Caldari people. We should have never let gallenteans do it, and just blast the heck them out from the system. Burn whole gallente prime, if it will be necessary, but we shouldn't let them dictate us what to do with our planets.
Let those, who signed this treaty, always have their names covered in shame! |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3267
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:TomHorn wrote: I dont know why you would be against a solution that prevents the deaths of Caldari citizens by the Federation navy, when they visit the homeworld.
Mr. Stitcher is a traitor, he would prefer to spill blood of Caldari, instead of spilling blood of gallenteans.
Why shoot anybody, if you can avoid it? The range of goods and services you can sell to a dead person is decidedly limited.
Capsuleers notwithstanding. the nice thing about killing a capsuleer is that you can then sell them their replacement ship. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
920
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Posted - 2014.03.10 10:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Diana Kim wrote:TomHorn wrote: I dont know why you would be against a solution that prevents the deaths of Caldari citizens by the Federation navy, when they visit the homeworld.
Mr. Stitcher is a traitor, he would prefer to spill blood of Caldari, instead of spilling blood of gallenteans. Why shoot anybody, if you can avoid it? The range of goods and services you can sell to a dead person is decidedly limited. Capsuleers notwithstanding. the nice thing about killing a capsuleer is that you can then sell them their replacement ship. You did attacked loyal Caldari patriots in the Haatomo solar system, many of them weren't capsuleers. Besides, by destroying capsuleer ship you destroy most of ship crew as well.
Or maybe you would like to deny it now?
Oh, and killing capsuleer is way harder that destroying a ship, you need rather good scanres to catch the pod, or very timely activation of smartbombs... |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3268
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Posted - 2014.03.10 11:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'd be laughing if you didn't depress me so much. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4301
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Posted - 2014.03.10 11:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've always found talking to Provists just a little bit off-putting, because even when they talk to you it never feels like they're actually holding a conversation with you. Their responses never seem to line up with what you actually say so much as they seem to be retorts to an imaginary statement that just so happens to contain whatever combination of words allow them to make whatever point they seemed to want to make. I mean, Provists aren't the only ones who exhibit this unsettling condition by a long shot (it's particularly common among Sani Sabik and EoM cultists, for instance) but they do seem to be the most obvious about it. Sometimes you'll bring up a factor that entirely obviates the point they were trying to make, and they'll just keep trying to make the same point as if they simply can't process the information. Observe Horn's continued insistance that Caldari citizens are being randomly targetted by the Federal Navy in Luminaire when nothing of the sort is happening - he continues to insist that they're dying in droves when this is quite demonstrably not the case.
Say what you like about the validity of Amarrian arguments, if you confront them with conflicting evidence they'll at least acknowledge that you brought it up, even if it won't change their minds. Mane 614
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
925
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Posted - 2014.03.10 13:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:I'd be laughing if you didn't depress me so much. You see, there is a thing about words, Mr. Stitcher. They pass as they come. But our actions and their consequences remain forever. |
TomHorn
Dragonaurs Ndrangheta.
174
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 13:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Im my first statement i said Caldari citizens who had bad security status with the Federation are being attacked by the Federation navy in the Luminaire solar system. This is not acceptable anymore. Wether we have good or bad standing within the Federation Caldari citizens need to be protected from the Federation navy ,when travelling in the Luminaire solar system. In most cases travelling to and from our homeworld. Yes Caldari are hostile to the Gallente and vice versa. Gallente on the homeworld are hostile to our population there. We have guaranteed their safety , should we not be afforded the same guarantee when travelling in the solar system. Dual sov in the solar system like dual sov on the planet would make this possible.
Your constant denials that the Federation navy are not killing Caldari travelling to and from the homeworld in the solar system are so incredulous. Do you think this killing is likely to help a long and lasting peace on the homeworld Andreus.
It is attitudes like yours Andreus where the Caldari nationalist have learnt the futility of diplomacy when dealing with the Gallente as opposed to the effectiveness of guns. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
925
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Posted - 2014.03.10 13:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
There is a problem about gallente: they always try to hurt Caldari citizens one way or another. Just analyze their attacks: - bombing of a planet - ramming station - defacing Caldari relics - civil unrest of gallente population in Caldari Prime, that actually started the war - downing titan on inhabited planet... All these attacks were directed at Caldari peoples or Caldari culture, not at proper Caldari military installations. And that's why control over Luminaire shouldn't stay in gallentean hands. |
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