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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 21:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because it makes it a better game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:Tippia wrote:Because it makes it a better game. how? By providing some actual opposition to overcome rather than some trivially solvable automated simulation of resistance.
Divine Entervention wrote:Because they're bad people. CCP set up an environment where bad people can do bad things. Being unable to do bad things IRL because of consequence, they flock to this game as an outlet to be their true selves. Do you have anything to support this nonsensical dribble? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:point is this thread, with all hate and anger for a simple question and no answer without 'lol just because' Well, if you hadn't come right out of the gate with said hate and anger, people would have been less likely to respond in kindGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19978
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:if its all about firendship y is everyone an enemy with each other? its what im trying to ask to explain here Have you ever played monopoly? Or checkers? Or bridge? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19980
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:working together in games like that means losing So you haven't played the games I mentioned.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19980
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:how do u work together in a 2-player game? You should look up the games I mentioned.
Quote:pls explain without hyperbola pls No. Sod off and do try to make a few neurons fire in sequence for once.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19980
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:holy **** please stop the abuse. Have you looked up the games yet?
Claud Tiberius wrote:You can try to separate your life and the characters. GǪand will succeed every time since they have nothing to do with each other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:They have everything to do with each other. GǪexcept for one being real and the other being in a game. Granted, pathologies like schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder have a tendency not to be able to make the distinction, but that's in the perception of the action GÇö not in the action itself GÇö and that incorrect connection is why they're labelled as disorders.
Aih-Li Tahn wrote:its hard to find ""normal"" ppl though... i was hoping a discusion would help, but aparently not Again, it would maybe have helped if you had avoided being hostile and baselessly judgemental from the get-go.
Quote:way to make asumptions and be constructive and discussion, dude He's doing exactly the same thing you're doing, you knowGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What we have here, is a failure of people realizing they are the product of their actions. So I take it you haven't realised that you're prejudiced yet, then? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if I'm making the judgement on the evidence provided to me through their actions. GǪbut since you don't have any such evidence, it is. All you're doing is making judgement based on baseless and nonsensical assumptions that are in every way completely disconnected from any kind of reality. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Bad people get to bad things, and I get to judge them No you don't, because you have no idea what kind of people they are. In fact, just by arbitrarily classifying them as GÇ£bad peopleGÇ¥, you are showing staggeringly bad judgement.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The evidence being shown by the individual choosing to perform the action. GǪwhich you've never witnessed. The only choice you've seen is that they play a game.
I take it you are a bad person then since you made the exact same choice?
Quote:Just as I display what you would consider to be evidence of my being "prejudiced" Nope. You see, I see you making prejudiced claims, which makes me label you as prejudiced. You see people play a game, which makes you draw the unrelated conclusion that they're bad people. If I made the same prejudiced statements you did, I would try to connect your baseless and wild accusations of other people with some cognitive-empathic disorder, which I can't since I haven't been able to make any relevant observations.
Quote:I get to use the evidence of their actions as a basis to reach my conclusions on them as a person You do, if you ever get to observe their actions, which you don't. All you ever observe is that they're playing a game GÇö same as you. If you want to use such loose connections, we can conclude that you are actually a giraffe. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You have a disconnect between cause and effect. Nope. I just don't share your baseless assumed connection between game strategy and real-life personality.
Quote:There is a choice to treat people nicely. GǪa choice you never get to observe since you never meet the person. The only choice you observe is their strategy in a competitive game environment.
Since you hate it so much, let's go back to this old simile: does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You do understand that the character is controlled by the player? You do understand that the context of the actions of that character is that they happen inside of a game, right?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19982
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:A game driven by the choices of the individuals within. So you're saying that you're a bad person since you made the same choice, then.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19985
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:No, because I do not lie to, or steal from people. I have no evidence of this, so I must assume that you are a bad person. After all, you made the exact same choice as the people you're judging to be bad people.
Quote:I do not play poker. Irrelevant. Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19985
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Based on my actions, you get to make your assumptions of who and what I am. Your prejudice is not an assumption GÇö it's amply displayed in this and every other thread on the topic. Personally, I choose not to make the kind of assumptions you're so fond of, and the only actions of yours I've observed is that you choose to play EVE (which according to you makes someone a bad person) and that you make prejudiced claims about other players. So that's as far as I can ever go.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? It's a very simple question and whether you, personally, play poker or not is completely irrelevant so you can drop that useless attempt at evading it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:And again you're insinuating that you are exempt from the reactions to your actions.
How nice it must be, to live in a fairy tale where you get to pick and choose the consequences of your actions. GǪexcept, of course, that he's not doing either of those.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Considering the severe disrespect you've just shown my person Where did he do that?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You justify a disconnection between your actions and your self however you wish. That is a deficiency in your character What do you base that claim on?
Quote:You failing to understand that you're the person making your choices to have negative impacts on other real people indicates no fault in me, only in you. GǪexcept, of course, that he doesn't fail to understand that. That's just you being prejudiced.
Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19988
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:What a lying piece of **** you are. Do you have anything to support this claim?
Quote:You are a prime example of what the OP is talking about. I'm sure you're a useless piece of **** in real life as well. Anyone that derives as much joy as you do in putting others down is a waste of air and doesn't deserve to live. Hopefully you will get ganked in real life then we won't have to listen to your stupid bullshit. [GǪ] Coming to the forums and complaining just brings out the likes of Tippia the **** and Erotic1 the psychopath. Before you go on a vacation, can I have your stuff? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20004
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Ooo interesting. This is a comparison I can get into. Let me elaborate upon this question to set it up to better reflect the sandbox of EVE. No. Just answer the question: does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person?
Inventing a completely different scenario doesn't answer this simple question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20005
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Because there's more than one way to play EVE. Yes, but playing Jagged Alliance isn't one of them. That's a different game with different rules, just like how intruding on someone's ballgame is not a part of cops and robbers. You're once again confusing in-game with out-of-game.
So, again, does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20005
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Actually according to the accessibility through skill points, it kind of is multiple smaller games within one big game. Actually, according to the actual game mechanics and not some contrived and arbitrarily made-up separation into activities, they're they're all the same singular game: EVE.
You choose to play it or you don't. If you choose to play it, you've made the same choice as the gankers and scammers.
So, again, does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
These are simple questions and the only reason you refuse to answer them and instead try this desperate song-dance number where you cut EVE into separate pieces is that you know that your answer will completely demolish your entire stance. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20005
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So camping a station is exactly the same as mining in high sec. Yes.
Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? Does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar?
Quote:Sadly it's not my own, considering society looks down upon people who's objective is to cause misery in others. GǪa trait that you can't determine merely from playing a game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It explains that people are willing to disconnect themselves from their own actions. The context being EVE. It certainly has you down to a t.
GÇ£Another disengagement technique is advantageous comparison. Moral judgments of conduct can be influenced by structuring what the conduct is compared against. In social comparison the GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ of acts depends more on the ideological allegiances of the labelers than on the acts themselves.GÇ¥ Put another way: personal prejudice.
Anyway, the term you're looking for is GÇ£magic circleGÇ¥.
Quote:Luckily for me, I have alot more weight on my side. I understand you though, I use to be like you. But I got better. Prejudice, bigotry, and unfounded assumption offers no weight, and that is all you have on your side. Nor is an increased reliance on them in any way a turn for the betterGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You're the one who keeps trying to compare morality to poker. No, that's just you being unable to distinguish what goes on in your head with what goes on in the real world. No such comparison has ever been made.
But since you bring it up, does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 00:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I've stated my case, you've stated yours. Yours Mine revolves around attacking me everyone who disagrees with me personally, enforcing my point that bad people exist and be their true selves vicariously through EVE.
Mine My unsupported claim revolves around the fact unproven assumption that people who make the choice to do bad things play the game as intended are bad people. You had a couple of misspellings in there. I fixed them up for you.
Quote:Which for some reason influences you to wish to do bad things to me. Could you point to this actually happening? So far, the only one who has expressed any such wish is the guy who agreed with you and who wanted me to die for pointing out that your claims are prejudiced.
Quote:The real world is you're choosing to sit at your computer and type on the eve forum so you can spread the message that people who do bad things aren't bad people. No, that's once again just you confusing what goes on in your head with what actually goes on in the real world.
By the way, you never answered the question: does bluffing in poker make you a bad person and a compulsive liar? Does playing the cop in a game of cops and robbers make the kid a good person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Alright well, you've already disrespected me. When did he do that?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:masternerdguy wrote:I feel obligated to point out that just because someone doesn't respect you doesn't mean that their opinion is wrong. and it doesn't mean it's right. GǪbut as luck would have it, no-one is trying to make that particular value judgement. The only thing someone tried to do was the kind fallacious dismissal of an argument that MNG mentions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:This is like textbook trolling right here. Explaining why your position and argument is incoherent and inconsistent is not trolling GÇö it is only what it is.
Quote:Let me find the psychological report about those who troll. Does it explain that they often try to avoid responding directly to questions or arguments directed at them and instead attempt to inject all manner of diversions and fallacies in the hope that it will hide the fact that they have no concrete argument to begin with? We have already established fairly well what category you fall into, so the results in that article should hardly come as a surprise to you.
Quote:Considering that your post is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting me His post is deliberately designed to point out that your playing the victim makes only exposes the hypocrisy of your argumentation.
You know something that is completely made up and devoid of any kind of basis in reality? InterestingGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The mugger might not mean it personally, but that's because he's deficient in moral character and takes actions against people without regard of their personal situation solely for his own benefit. No, it's because it's not personal. You, as a person, had nothing to do with it, nor was morality a factor in going after you rather than someone else.
Sure, you will probably develop a trauma centered on the question GÇ£why me?GÇ¥, but that's just it: the healing process will entail the realisation that it's not a relevant question because it was never personal GÇö that it was just an irrational projection of your emotions onto his motives and motivations.
Quote:So since I have the same right to play the game in a manner where all I want to do all day is mine in high security, then since it's how I want to play EVE since it's a valid way to play the game, that people who wish to enforce their way to play upon me by attacking and blowing me up are wrong. No, they're not. You are wrong in thinking that you have any GÇ£rightGÇ¥ to play the game the way you like without intervention from others. Just like everyone else, you have to enforce your way on others to get what you want, and they have to do the same to you to get what they want.
It's simply how a multiplayer sandbox works.
Quote:O wait! Except for you it only applies to how you want to play and not how others do. No, it applies equally to everyone. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20006
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 01:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Upon making an offensive request to me for my personal information, the protection of my privacy ranks higher than your obsessive focus on my physical appearance IRL. GǪexcept that none of those actually happened. That's just you making a massive strawman argument to cover for the fact that you knew where his argument was going and knew that it was going to end up in a place that would further expose your prejudice.
Quote:Because of this demonstration, I have the right to label you as someone who's opinions and irrational desires of me should be regarded as such and ignored. Sure, you have the right to do that, but it would be no less prejudiced or hypocritical than the other arbitrary declarations of character you've made.
And again, just because you choose to play the victim doesn't mean that his initial argument was incorrect GÇö only that you couldn't respond to it.
Quote:Except the asteroid is not controlled on the other end by a sentient being investing it's time. GǪbut the competition is, and by mining that asteroid, you've just forced your gameplay decisions on them, which obviously makes you a very nasty and evil person. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20007
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You are justifying robbing No. That's just you confusing what goes on inside your head with what is actually going on in the real world. Please try again. This goes for your equally incorrect and baseless second sentence as well.
Quote:I am allowed within the confines of human interaction to label such people who do so as those who engage in actions designed towards benefiting themselves at another's expense without concern for their desired way to play the game. GǪand by taking that liberty, you are being prejudiced.
Quote:Considering that we all have the right to play the game how we wish We don't. That's where your entire line of reasoning breaks down. You have exactly two right: 1) to log in, and 2) to cancel your subscription at any time. Everything beyond that is something you have to carve out of the game environment in competition with (and against the will of) other players.
A GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ does not mean you will succeed at anything you want to attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. It also does not mean that you can do what you want; it means everyone can try do what they want, which will include them doing things (to you) that you don't want them to do. In both cases, you have to force your will onto other players, the same way all the other players must, and will, impose their will onto you.
Meanwhile, you're trying to impose your irrational and incoherent GÇ£moralityGÇ¥ and prejudice on everyone around you while at the same time deploring the practice of others doing the exact same thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20007
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Are you implying that I get upset when I lose items? No, he's not. He's implying that your notion of being able to play the game without enforcing your will to play upon other players is inherently impossible. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20007
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:Why CCP will not enforce a level of civility is beyond me. But then you wouldn't be allowed to postGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20008
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:And it also means that when someone chooses to perform an action such as stealing from me, I am allowed to classify them as a person who performs the action of stealing and treat them as such. GǪwhich, since it happens within a game, isn't enough to let you say anything about the character or morality of the real-life person unless you filter it through a huge layer of unfounded assumptions, aka prejudices.
And anyway, no, a GÇ£sandboxGÇ¥ does not actually mean that.
Quote:Exactly. So because you get to believe that your action of stealing is right, I get to believe that it is wrong. The difference is that in the context, your belief is wrong. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20009
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Posted - 2014.03.14 02:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Spaja Saist wrote:You're thousands of insult posts No, I am not thousands of posts GÇö insults or otherwise.
Quote:You are the problem that needs to be corrected. How you haven't been permanently banned is beyond me. Oh, that's simple: I tend to stay away from personal abuse, wishing harm on others, trolling, emotional ranting, and off-topic posting. Instead, I prefer to rely on facts, logic, and argumentation, which makes it hard to build a solid case for my being banned.
I understand that trolls get mightily upset when their standard tactics fail and their lack of reasoning is exposed, and descend into frothing rage that get them shut down, but that's really their problem, not mine. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20009
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Incorrect, because it is the person outside of the game making the choice for it to happen within the game. GǪand since all of that happens within the magic circle, it has little to no bearing on the character of the real-life person. What's GǣrightGǥ and GǣwrongGǥ in one context does not carry over into a completely separate context.
Or are you saying that people who bluff in pokers are bad people and compulsive liars? Are you saying that a kid playing a cop in a game of cops and robbers is necessarily a good person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20009
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 02:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:This is exactly the same sentiment I feel regarding people who get upset when they cannot comprehend the reality that we're all real people playing a real game in reality, interacting with other real people, really. Then again, that never really happens. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20010
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Except EVE is a different game than poker and cops and robbers. Doesn't matter. They're all games. They all have rules about what you can and can't do within the context of that game. They all have rules about how you win or lose. They are all, for the lack of a better term, GÇ£PvPGÇ¥.
Someone blowing up your ship in EVE has the real-world-moral equivalence of someone tagging you in cops and robbers. Someone scamming you in EVE has the real-world-moral equivalence of someone bluffing you in poker. I.e. none. Everyone is simply playing the game as intended. You cannot judge anyone's character in real life based on what they do in game because there is no connection between the two: what's allowed and acceptable in one is not allowed in the other.
All three games revolve around shooting and tricking and robbing each other. None of it means that the people playing these games are murderers, liars or thieves in real life. Transposing one into the other necessitates passing through a massively thick layer of unproven assumptions about the connection between (legal, expected, morally neutral) in-game behaviour and (illegal, unexpected, and immoral) out-of-game behaviour that instantly turns any such characterisation into unadulterated prejudice.
Quote:I will not entertain the idea that Poker and Cops and Robbers is EVE. Because it's completely wrong. Good news, then: no-one has ever put forward that idea. That's just something you've made up in your head. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:But on the other hand, back to my statements, someone who has evidenced himself to be one who does an action against another human being at his expense for one's own profitable gain, is evidence to suggest that the person is someone who convinceshis self that ethical standards do not apply to himself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. GǪand the problem with trying to apply any kind of moral judgement from that is that within that context, the ethics explicitly don't apply GÇö their inapplicability is the defining characteristic of the context. Not being able to make those distinctions is a serious mental deficiency. It's one you can get you put on heavy-duty medication, that's how bad it is.
Quote:But i will label them as people who are willing to convince themselvesthat ethical standards do not apply to oneself in a particular context, by separating moral reactions from inhumane conduct by disabling the mechanism of self-condemnation. You mean you will label them GÇ£saneGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:If I foreclose someone's hotel in Monopoly, am I a bad person? Can Eve draw parallels with games that have clear victory conditions? Since we're talking about singular acts in EVE that have clear victory conditions, sure. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The kids playing kickball in the recess known as eve don't want to play cops and robbers. EvE is a different game than cops and robbers. Irrelevant. They are all still games; they all have rules about what is and what isn't allowed; they all have rules for how you win or lose; they are all PvP. The moral transposition between them and real life is the same: none whatsoever.
Quote:In the Casino of "EvE" there are not only poker tables. If the guy steps up to the poker table, he cannot get mad if someone bluffs him. But in the Casino of "EvE", he can choose to play roulette or maybe even the slot machines. That's the great thing about this casino, is there's different amenities. GǪbut the funny part is that no matter which one you choose, you can only win by making someone else lose. If you want to win, you have to do it at the expense of someone else. Don't worry, it won't reflect poorly on your moral constitution GÇö those are just the rules of the context.
In every case, playing by the rules is playing by the rules. In every case, the rules allow and actively encourage behaviour that would be considered very GÇ£badGÇ¥ outside of the context. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I feel stealing is wrong. So why are you playing EVE, where it isn't?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20011
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 03:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:But because I know we both have the same options, if you choose to do the ones that are morally wrong, then I'll label you as a person who performs morally wrong actions. GǪbut since there are no morally wrong acts, that makes for a particularly pointless labelling attempt.
Quote:Your stance is that it's not morally wrong because the game takes place within a "illusory polygon" Nope. That's just something you've made up in your head.
Quote:I state that it is morally wrong [GǪ] since the action is being performed by people against people, it is subject to the standards of morality. GǪwhich are not the same as they are IRL since it's in a game where everything you is done at the expense of someone else and where most out-of-game systems of morality would be inherently broken at every point since they're meant to uphold a vastly different social order.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20013
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 06:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I had an enjoyable time fighting outnumbered and securing my place as king of the forum's hill. So you admit that you're just trolling then. Goodie. Next time you try, attempt to have an argument based in reality and you might actually be able to not come out with a score of 0.
Quote:But if you're in an Amarr faction warfare corp and you stumble upon another Amarr nuetral miner in high sec and you decide to kill him to make him mad because making people mad is funny, well then you're the type of person who does things we're allowed to consider as "bad" Now, you do realise that this is already something that's not allowed and that you're only offering up meaningless platitudes at this point? What you're describing is something quite apart from playing the game as expected and in accordance with the rules GÇö an act you also want to attribute to being GÇ£badGÇ¥, somehow.
Kyperion wrote:Anybody who makes a living in eve out of ganking miners or freighters does not want 'resistance' they just want a turn at being a terrorist. GǪwhich would be no fun if it was just an automated simulacrum of resistance rather than an actual, unpredictable person at the other end who's actively trying to oppose themselves to what they're doing.
Quote:The problem is not that it exists, its that so many of these 'Code' 'New Order' types are under the impression that they are PVP masters for shooting and scamming mostly new players... and thereby contribute to a toxic environment.
'PVP' should be about the thrill of outmanuevering, and out strategizing your opponent, not taking advantage of ignorance or silly game mechanics. No, they GÇö like everyone else playing a professional badguy GÇö don't particularly care about new players because they have nothing on offer. They lack the funds or the entrenchment that makes them worth taking money from.
And knowing the game better than your opponent has been a part of PvP since roughly forever. Yes, there are other ways of beating them but just because you might not like that particular aspect doesn't mean it's an invalid one. Meanwhile, most of this is about outmanoeuvring and outsmarting the opponentGǪ although admittedly, the opponents have a nasty tendency to choose no manoeuvres and no thinking as their GǣmoveGǥ in the match. But that's their bad choice and they get to live with the consequences of it.
And yes, it does make EVE a better game because none of it is scripted or predictable or left to easily deconstructed and manipulated GÇ£AIGÇ¥. You have to actually play just a liiiittle bit better than your opponent(s) to win. In many cases, this equates to a minute amount of effort but it's still vastly more than if the game were designed differently.
Quote:Bad guys are fine, we aren't talking about bad guys here, we are talking about people who only kill new players, and are in fact trying to invalidate or make impossible a form of playing the game that does not break the EULA in any way.... and is actually somewhat important to the overall player driven parts of the economy. But those people don't matter because they get banned in short order since what you describe isn't allowed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20016
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:28:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Tippia said: "But those people don't matter because they get banned in short order since what you describe isn't allowed."
....Hogwash, that is precisely what James and his filth do every day, they can only hope to kill and scam newbies. If they did, they wouldn't have as many GM and dev statements claimng that what they're doing is within the rules of the game, and the many petitions surely levelled against them at this time would have left none of them in the game.
Harassment and griefing, especially of new players, is probably among the quickest ways to bring an immediate halt to your subscription. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20016
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 10:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kyperion wrote:Its a very thin technicality that keeps them afloat. And may not last in the long term. You mean the technicality of not breaking any rules? No, I think that one will last them quite a while. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20019
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 11:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kyperion wrote: No, the mechanic by which they are scamming CCP into not banning them,
Ok, so by the technicality that the reason they should be banned doesn't even exist. Yeah, no. That one will last them even longer. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20021
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:I've learned nothing from this thread, except some further confirmation about something I already knew- that Aussies are easily trolled about their country and nationality even though they are pretty much the sum total of all that is bad and undesirable about English-speaking cultures, and their national identity amounts to being racist alcoholic descendants of the scum and dregs of imperial Britain.
Australia actually is a wasteland. It was the only accurate and cognizant point in the entire OP. I've learned that people want me dead IRL for posting on a forum and that someone (who's admittedly a liar, a bigot, and a hypocrite) who likes to claim a position of moral superiority is in favour of my death and stands by the bile and hatered directed towards me.
I think that neatly answers the OP's question, but unfortunately reverses his presumption about who's taking on what role as far as the harassment and evil behaviour is concerned. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20022
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 12:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:People are weird, and the internet is weird. Eve attracts especially weird people. Nothing you do in a video game is worthy of death threats and general creepiness. But making fun of aussies is pretty fair game no matter what. Oh, I don't know. Isn't it a bit cruel to make fun of people who already suffer from having to stand on their heads all day long? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20037
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 18:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:embrel wrote:There's no such thing as bad or good people. Good luck with arguing that with him, he's of the opinion that people who make you explode in Eve are just as likely to murder you for loose change in real life, because what you do within the context of a game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life. To be fair, he has explained that he assumes everyone will do that, regardless of what games they play and how, until they've somehow proven otherwise. That really tells you all you need to knowGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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