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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
132
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Posted - 2014.03.14 22:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
According to a recently published census, the Amarr Empire contains a shockingly large number of Caldari. Of the 21.449 Trillion non-slaves in the Empire[1], 3.860 Trillion or 18% of them are Caldari. To put this astonishing number in perspective:
- In the Gallente Federation, the political entity to which the Caldari people once belonged and where relations with the Caldari-minority are still a frequent matter of news and debate, there are only 1.599 Trillion Caldari.
- In the Caldari State itself, there are only 7.654 Trillion Caldari, just twice the number of Caldari in the Empire.
The questions raised by this enormous Caldari presence in the Empire are astounding:
- There is no precedent in Amarr history for such a large ethnic minority that neither joined the Reclaiming voluntarily (as did the Khanid) nor were themselves Reclaimed and conquered (pretty much everyone else). Have these Caldari joined the Reclaiming; have they renounced the worship of meteorological phenomena and accepted God not only as Maker but Lord?
- Amarr society rests also on a hierarchy of Holder, Commoner, and Slave, these stations being hereditary or at least stable over many generations. How has the presence of so many people from a civilization traditionally devoted to the heresy of meritocracy disrupted the social order?
- Although this Caldari minority has been amazingly silent relative to its size, it must be expected that they will some day begin making demands. Or at least requests. What do they want?
- Does this census undermine certain commonly held propositions about Caldari character? I have heard it said that Caldari have a strongly developed sense of place; that one cannot be Caldari just anywhere; that if you want to follow Caldari tradition, you really ought to be in the Caldari State. But apparently 3.860 Trillion people are being Caldari (for some meaning of Caldari)...in the Amarr Empire. Does the Cold Wind blow on Dam-Torsad?
- Do these census results have the effect of cementing present political alignments between Empires in place? Many IGS Caldari would seem to rather have the Minmatar Republic as their ally instead of the Amarr Empire. But would the Caldari State ever stop favoring the Amarr Empire with its 3.860 Trillion Caldari over the Minmatar Republic with its less than a trillion Caldari?
- Finally, where did all these Caldari come from? Do they go all the way back to the era when the Caldari separated from the Gallente? Or are they more recent immigrants?
[1] It is unclear whether these figures include the Khanid Kingdom and Ammatar Mandate.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
505
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Posted - 2014.03.14 22:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:The questions raised by this enormous Caldari presence in the Empire are astounding:
- There is no precedent in Amarr history for such a large ethnic minority that neither joined the Reclaiming voluntarily (as did the Khanid) nor were themselves Reclaimed and conquered (pretty much everyone else). Have these Caldari joined the Reclaiming; have they renounced the worship of meteorological phenomena and accepted God not only as Maker but Lord?
You cannot be a citizen of Amarr without embracing the faith. Those Caldari are members of the Faith or they wouldn't be included on that census.
Quote:- Amarr society rests also on a hierarchy of Holder, Commoner, and Slave, these stations being hereditary or at least stable over many generations. How has the presence of so many people from a civilization traditionally devoted to the heresy of meritocracy disrupted the social order?
Those Caldari are commoners. I'm sure any that might have caused issues have already been handled, and most get along just fine as citizens of the Empire.
Quote:[1] It is unclear whether these figures include the Khanid Kingdom and Ammatar Mandate.
They don't, it's an Imperial census. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
177
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Corporate takeover. They're already settling into your bureaucracy. The ammarian takeover is near completion... The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Gosakumori Noh
Seraglio Hastatus Hagia Sophia
600
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Amarr is a meritocracy of race.
The Udorians proved their merit, and now have a Royal Heir. The Khanid proved their merit, and now have an independent Kingdom. On that front, the Ammatar are close behind. The Ni-Kunni proved their merit, and now serve as the bedrock of Amarr's cultural and industrial machine.
Though the number is surprising, what is not surprising is that the Caldari would also prove meritorious, having shown their mettle separating from the Federation.
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
134
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote: You cannot be a citizen of Amarr without embracing the faith. Those Caldari are members of the Faith or they wouldn't be included on that census.
A census need not include citizens only; a census may include permanent residents, illegal aliens, or whatever. That said, the publication that collected together all this census data was not specific on this point. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
505
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
That same census you are referring to very clearly stated that 98% of the population are members of the faith. That would include the major portion of those Caldari and Gallente. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2215
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
I feel the answer is simple really. The Amarr and the Caldari have always been very close allies. While they are extremely different both politically and religiously, their alliance is a necessity or at least it was when it was first created. With the Gallente and the Minmatar forming an equally powerful alliance, the Caldari clung to the massive Amarrian Empire to discourage further Federal aggression and the Amarr clung to the Caldari to help boost their economy after the rebellion deprived them of a major portion of their workforce. So over the past century, Caldari that have found a liking to the way the Empire does things flocked their, or those that stayed in the Empire over a long period of time (probably for business or military) decided to settle down since they liked it so much.
Keep in mind that it was mainly Ex-Executor Heth who wanted to become closer to the Republic. While Im sure many Caldari would like this as well, I don't think anyone in their right mind would be willing to turn their back on their closest ally like that. Especially considering that the alliance with the Caldari and the Amarr has carried on pretty much without a single bump in the road. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the Gallente- Minmatar alliance. While you may notice the Federation has gotten closer to the Empire in recent years, it too would not risk the massive instability that would result from turning away from the Republic, especially considering more Minmatar live in the Federation than in the Republic.
All that said, I do have to wonder what agenda or plot you are trying to promote with this information. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Inter Vivos Trust Service
50
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
The wording of the report seems to be sufficiently ambiguous that we cannot be certain that a) these population totals are limited to citizens and slaves exclusively (visa holders, long-term business residents, immigrants in differing stages of the immigration process, etc. might be recorded in this data), and b) that the 98% quote for religious affiliation applies to citizens only or all who reside, with whatever designation, within the Empire. While the report is good enough for some basic figures either a more detailed tabulation should be consulted or an inquiry with the publisher should be made for a definitive explanation.
On the note of how such a large Caldari population has come to be present within the Empire, I would think that the economic cooperation with the State has resulted in some intermingling of the populations. Further, a large portion of the Caldari residents and guests might be refugees and descendants of refugees from the Caldari/Gallente War that fled the Federation but were unprepared to take the risks of joining the young State. However, given the more insular nature of the Empire at the time, I am not sure that that is the answer.
I confess to not having always paid as close attention to my history tutors' lessons as I ought to have. "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."-á- Book of Reclaiming 22:13 |
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
134
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:That same census you are referring to very clearly stated that 98% of the population are members of the faith. That would include the major portion of those Caldari and Gallente.
But it very clearly states "Percentage of Population Actively Practicing Reilgion: 98%"...under a subheading "Status of Matari within the Empire". So 98% of Matari in the Empire actively practice religion; nothing is said about anyone else.
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Erin Savonarola
House Savonarola
23
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Posted - 2014.03.15 00:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
The census data does not apply to slaves. Note the lack of Ealur, my lord Tash-Murkon. |
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Inter Vivos Trust Service
50
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Posted - 2014.03.15 00:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Erin Savonarola wrote:The census data does not apply to slaves. Note the lack of Ealur, my lord Tash-Murkon.
You are quite right Contessa, I see now that slave census data is listed separately along with free Matari data. My apologies.
EDIT: And it is very strange that the Ealur are wholly unlisted. Their numbers must be small or the data gathers were not interested in providing information past a certain level of detail. "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."-á- Book of Reclaiming 22:13 |
Erin Savonarola
House Savonarola
23
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Posted - 2014.03.15 00:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:Erin Savonarola wrote:The census data does not apply to slaves. Note the lack of Ealur, my lord Tash-Murkon. You are quite right Contessa, I see now that slave census data is listed separately along with free Matari data. My apologies. EDIT: And it is very strange that the Ealur are wholly unlisted. Their numbers must be small or the data gathers were not interested in providing information past a certain level of detail. It is the latter. In all likelihood the only reason the slave Matari were only included due to the ongoing conflict with the Tribal Republic. |
Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
235
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Posted - 2014.03.15 00:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would imagine that the Caldari population is either immigrants, or personnel working State interests within Empire space. |
Erin Savonarola
House Savonarola
23
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Posted - 2014.03.15 01:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:That same census you are referring to very clearly stated that 98% of the population are members of the faith. That would include the major portion of those Caldari and Gallente. But it very clearly states "Percentage of Population Actively Practicing Reilgion: 98%"...under a subheading "Status of Matari within the Empire". So 98% of Matari in the Empire actively practice religion; nothing is said about anyone else. This is a formatting error. I have seen the original layout and it's a separate category. A slave has no choice but to practice the faith. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
564
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Posted - 2014.03.15 08:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
From what I remember, the Tash-Murkon family has strong Caldari ties, can explain the large Caldari population partially as they might have been very open to Caldari immigrants to increase their own strength and power.
On the corporate presence, considering the huge number of Caldari stations in some regions of Amarr space they did at some point invest heavely in there, bringing along a large wave of immigrants. Aridia region is a good example! Caldari stations everywhere, any Caldari would feel at home when travelling across this part of space. The large rate of conversion to the Amarr faith is harder to explain, but perhaps many were searching for a more 'solid' belief then the ambigious Winds. Please don't get me wrong, but for people who seek a more solid belief, the Winds can be a very loose and esotheric belief and then the Amarr provide a solid beleifsystem with their divine faith. -áThis week sees over 11.000 immigrants joining the Arcology Project! Shrouded in mystery, the Jovian race |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
934
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Posted - 2014.03.15 08:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:
Do these census results have the effect of cementing present political alignments between Empires in place? Many IGS Caldari would seem to rather have the Minmatar Republic as their ally instead of the Amarr Empire. They aren't loyal Caldari anyway. Republic in its form is the enemy of the State, and loyal Caldari would never work for them or try to see them as allies. The problem with IGS "Caldari", that many of them are, unfortunately, outcasts, who run from the State after patriotic and meritocratic reforms. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1697
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Posted - 2014.03.15 12:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
It would be useful if Naupilus could provide a source for these data.
After all, we wouldn't want people thinking that he was trying to deceive them. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
506
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Posted - 2014.03.15 12:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
It is from the Ministry of Internal Order's YC114 census, Lord Blake. |
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
137
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Posted - 2014.03.15 14:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
The same source that published the MIO YC114 Census data also published Gallente Federation census data. This was interesting in that the population data definitely included non-citizens, because the report listed citizenship data for the Federation a few lines later. The Gallente data looks like this:
Estimated Total Population: 19.991 Trillion
Breakdown of Citizenship Status: Gallente Citizens: 14.362 Trillion
Now, this does not absolutely, positively mean that the non-slave Amarr Empire population of 21.449 Trillion listed in the OP includes non-citizens. But it is strong indication that it might.
I do not concede that the given statistic for "Percentage of Population Actively Practicing Religion" proves that the provided population figures are citizen-only, as
- The statistic is listed under "Status of Matari within the Empire" in the final version of the publication we are all quoting here.
- "Religion" need not necessarily refer only to the true Amarr relgion, as for example a temporary Caldari expat living in a Caldari station somewhere would be permitted to practice the Way of the Winds in the privacy of his own home, as long as he does not go outside preaching it.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
506
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Posted - 2014.03.15 15:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:- "Religion" need not necessarily refer only to the true Amarr relgion, as for example a temporary Caldari expat living in a Caldari station somewhere would be permitted to practice the Way of the Winds in the privacy of his own home, as long as he does not go outside preaching it.
There is only one religion. Any other practices are illegal, and would fall under the 2%, surely. |
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2218
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Posted - 2014.03.15 15:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Nauplius wrote:- "Religion" need not necessarily refer only to the true Amarr relgion, as for example a temporary Caldari expat living in a Caldari station somewhere would be permitted to practice the Way of the Winds in the privacy of his own home, as long as he does not go outside preaching it.
There is only one religion. Any other practices are illegal, and would fall under the 2%, surely.
Could the 2% apply to citizens that are goung through the process of being fully indoctrinated into the faith? For instance, children who have yet to complete all necessary rituals? Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
506
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Posted - 2014.03.15 15:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
All children of Amarr are of the faith. You cannot be a citizen and not be of the faith. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3313
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Posted - 2014.03.15 15:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Amarr Empire, consisting of the Aridia, Bleak Lands, Devoid, Domain, Genesis, Kador, Kor-Azor, and Tash-Murkon regions, contains 152 space stations which belong to Big 8 Megacorporations, broken down as follows:
CBD Corporation - 42 stations (Nearly half their total stations, and more than they have in State space) Aridia: 12 stations Kador: 6 stations Kor-Azor: 6 stations Tash-Murkon: 12 stations The Bleak Lands: 6 stations
Ishukone Corporation - 20 stations Domain: 8 stations Kor-Azor: 4 stations Tash-Murkon: 8 stations
Kaalakiota Corporation - 54 stations Aridia: 6 stations Devoid: 6 stations Domain: 6 stations Genesis: 6 stations Kador: 18 stations Tash-Murkon: 12 stations
Nugoeihuvi Corporation - 16 stations Kor-Azor: 12 stations Tash-Murkon: 4 stations
Wiyrkomi Corporation - 20 stations Aridia: 8 stations Genesis: 4 stations Kador: 4 stations The Bleak Lands: 4 stations
Two other notable Caldari corporations have stations in the Amarr Empire:
Expert Distribution - 36 stations Modern Finances - 4 stations
That's a total of 192 stations. Every Caldari aboard those stations is a corporate citizen in the Empire, working on a Caldari jobsite on Caldari work visas.
I should point out that's just the space-side information I have access to. Corporations such as Caldari Constructions, Expert Housing and Echelon Entertainment will all also have countless dirtside corporate enclaves and the Okusaiken will have arcologies to meet the work contract demands of an Empire hungry for high-tech Caldari goods and high-quality Caldari work. I'm aware of at least one Zainou lab in Hedion, co-operating with the Empire's experts in cybernetics and anti-agatics.
Again, every one of the Caldari living and working within those enclaves will also be a corporate citizen outside of the usual slave-commoner-holder hierarchy. That accounts for most of the three trillion.
The remainder will, yes, be ethnic Caldari who converted to Amarr and became citizens of the Empire. And I daresay a fair few of the corporate workers will be Amarr convertees too - it's a religion built around proselytization and conversion after all, it seems entirely likely that it would succeed occasionally. Especially among Caldari who already have the Maker as a springboard into monotheism and no particular reason to hate or distrust the Amarr.
But no, most of those three trillion are not Imperial citizens, they're State citizens who happen to be permanently living and working in the Empire. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
246
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Posted - 2014.03.16 10:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thank you for the in depth information, Hakatain-haan. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. DARKNESS.
4333
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Posted - 2014.03.16 11:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:CBD Corporation - 42 stations (Nearly half their total stations, and more than they have in State space) This was initially surprising to me but on reflection I guess it makes sense - CBD are an import/export corporation. Mane 614
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