Nullsec is held by large monolithic alliances whose overlords pocket all the lucrative wealth while leaving the rest of the faceless puppets with scraps.

"Why should I spend my money and time, serving some overlords?"
******************************
YOU SHOULDN'T
******************************

This is probably one of the biggest reasons why many don't want to go to null, why should I spend my money and my free time working another job for another boss.

Nullsec is for delusional fools who are tricked by tales of grandeur fed to them over nullsec overlords who want more slaves and underlings fighting for them. Moon mining is a very profitable venture along with Real Money Trade. Nullsec alliances and coalitions ensure smooth operations and maximum profit. This is pocketed by the upper echelon and the bottom sees nothing.

"What's in it for me?"
***********************
NOTHING !
***********************
To be honest, there is really nothing nullsec offers you over anywhere else if you a simple underling. Those who make profit are only a handful and the rest are expected to look out for themselves. Fleet fights are boring and lagtastic. Its as fun as watching paint dry. There is no skills or tactics, just simply mindless blobbing.

Nullsec leaves you as a faceless grunt with fairly little to gain.

I have been in nullsec many times, each experience leaving me with disappointment and dissatisfaction.

Nullsec makes the game feel like another job, and this is a game which one should be able to enjoy with friends and companions, not bosses and drones.

As long as you have nullsec overlords and massive alliances, nullsec will stay as it is.

Oh look its another highsec pubbie who thinks they have nullsec all figured out.

But nevermind me, im just some poor mindless slave (who makes plenty of isk to pay for shiny ships that get blown up in pvp) to some evil nullsec overlord (and hey my alliance even reimburses ships I lose on alliance fleets, free pvp) who just RMTs all our hard earned isk (if our alliance CEO RMTs all of our isk how do we run our ship replacement program, keep our poses and JBs fueled, or even pay our sov bills?).

Have yet to be in a boring fleet fight (other than when we get blueballed), and insane lagfests died with the NC.

I live in nullsec because highsec bores me to tears, EVE PvE is mind numbingly boring, PvP is the only real fun thing to do in this game.

You're in TEST, do they actually PvP?

I have been in nullsec many times

You're in TEST, do they actually PvP?

You're in TEST, do they actually PvP?

TEST's military arm is built entirely around the concept of drive-by trolling. We assemble massive fleets, so huge no one dares get in our way lest they evaporate, and then sit in POS bubbles until we get so frustrated that we bridge into hostile systems and **** up local something fierce (I have never seen local move faster than a TEST troll driveby, its truly impossible to read). Then we go back home and call it a moral victory.

BTW, this is seriously how the CFC took 6VDT and crushed IT. Massive, 23/7 trolling and station camping. We trolled them to death.

Oh, is that what you guys were doing in Nakah today? seemed more like you were just flying a thanatos unguarded in circles while the rest of the fleet was docked up screaming absurdities and something about the Delve Police and ******* drug-busts in providence.

but what do i know, i only sat around for 10-15 minutes and laughed at local, before spending half an hour shooting at an "elite space guild" blockade unit out of boredom.

You sir, do not speak for me.

I left null becuase it not longer fitted within my time tables.

I was infering the OP unless shes your alt.

I bet you all would feel so much better if CCP got rid of warp bubbles.

I bet you all would feel so much better if CCP got rid of warp bubbles.

Let's remove everything that makes nullsec unique, so that way it is no different than lowsec!

No but its part of the give a mouse a cookie syndome.

You know warp bubbles weren't always in EVE right? This whole "make EVE better campaign" the CEO is on, acknowledges that CCP added some stuff they shouldn't have. Removing warp bubbles will get more people into nullsec.

3. Fleet fights are boring, lagtastic, and require no skill or tactics.

Mostly false. Good FCs are worth their weight in gold out here. Large scale fleet engagement tactics and overarching strategy are much more complicated than small scale PvP, requiring the coordination of hundreds of players, advanced knowledge of the game mechanics, and the charisma to settle disputes and herd your legion of cats into the enemy. Fleet fights are a huge adrenaline rush, the teamwork, the comms, the **** linked in fleet chat, all of it leads to a pretty fun experience. Unless you are on a structure shoot. Then you play World of Tanks/Transformice/League of Legends with your fleet mates while your ship unloads for an hour or two on a tower. Lagtastic is generally true, but you get used to it, and learn to fight with it. The time dilation stuff coming should help with that.

TL;DR OP is a idiot who knows nothing of nullsec, and good alliances.

Anyone who has ever seen a Mr Vee fleet (from either end of the guns) understands that large scale PvP is unbelievably deep in terms of strategy and tactics involved.

I don't think you can dismiss null fleet battles offhand after seeing a fleet of half a thousand individuals move like a school of fish, warping between on-grid perches multiple times a minute, locking people up and popping them then relocating before they could react properly, and generally being a cohesive ball of coordinated death.

Nullsec is held by large monolithic alliances whose overlords pocket all the lucrative wealth while leaving the rest of the faceless puppets with scraps.

"Why should I spend my money and time, serving some overlords?"

This is probably one of the biggest reasons why many don't want to go to null, why should I spend my money and my free time working another job for another boss.

I think we've just found the reason people don't move to null.

If you need friends in null to be successful in null, and you've never been to null before and have no friends there, then doesn't that mean you get to lose ships repeatedly until you somehow magically make friends in null?

And if you don't end up making friends in null, then do you just quit the game? Keep dying until you go broke and have to crawl back to level 4s? AFK cloak?

This sounds rather un-fun. If I "win" I get to blob the crap out of people. If I "lose" I get blobbed until I leave. Why should I move to null again?

Bubbles are not impossible walls to clamor over. Many of the time they're unattented when I find them.

The wall you are facing is imaginary impervious to you.

They are unattended because they have over done their job. They are not impossible, but the last thing you need is a game mechanic that forces you to sit there and get blob ganked because you jumped into the system. Thats not fun. The only way to break through the gate camp is with equal or overwhelming force, which no small gang or solo player has. Warp bubbles need to go before high sec player will seriously consider nullsec.

Uhh, connections and friends are just about the most important thing for success *anywhere*, from life to EVE. It is *NOT* hard to join an established nullsec alliance, and it is simply ******** to complain that the combined will of 1000 individual human beings is going to steamroll the combined will of 15.

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.

it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.

The thread ain't about human nature as much as it is CCP giving gate campers an I win button in nullsec. The OP asked what would get more folks into nullsec, and the reason most folks don't go is because the choke points are bubble camped. Nothing is wrong with massive fleet battles, but CCP is unbalanced in their approach to nullsec. With bubble camps it is logical, to not go into nullsec.

Your best bet to get players into null sec who pvp is to force out the high sec griefers and war dec corps. Those players already pvp and would be less likely to unsub unlike a pure industrialist or PvE players. Another thing this group of players have over the solo industrialist and PvE player is they are organized and work together to bring down war targets.

if you have a brain, an understanding of game mechanics, a basic cloak, and a MWD, you are essentially immune to bubbles. having a (PERSONAL) bookmark system helps too, saves time bouncing around for favorable angles.

The average player doesn't have that great of understanding of game mechanics. Maybe you don't really know what will get more people into nullsec. I know from asking players and listening to their answers what will help them get into nullsec. One of the reasons most players don't go is because it is walled off from most solo and small gang type players. Seems extremely complicated to go through most gates just fine to all of a sudden needing a MWD and cloak, just to enter a system. Just be honest warp bubbles are not necessary, and prevent many players from attempting nullsec.

The average player doesn't have that great of understanding of game mechanics...

TEST's military arm is built entirely around the concept of drive-by trolling. We assemble massive fleets, so huge no one dares get in our way lest they evaporate, and then sit in POS bubbles until we get so frustrated that we bridge into hostile systems and **** up local something fierce (I have never seen local move faster than a TEST troll driveby, its truly impossible to read). Then we go back home and call it a moral victory.

BTW, this is seriously how the CFC took 6VDT and crushed IT. Massive, 23/7 trolling and station camping. We trolled them to death.

Also, the OPs entire post falls apart when you realize that said "evil overlords" are paying for every single ship you lose and dumping ISK into making fun things happen (if you joined the right side).

I see... so YOU don't actually DO ANYTHING but tag along like a little puppy and "sit" or "speak" when you are TOLD to.
Yep, really "Leet" there Chief. I am in awe.

Lots of paranoid uninformed stuff about how it's warp bubbles that kill 0.0

Honestly man, if warp bubbles are such the terrible thing how is it that people who actually live in 0.0 full time don't see a problem with them ?

Is there a steep learning curve to get into 0.0 ? Hell yes. There's a shed load more to learn about null sec than you had to learn about mission running in empire. You cannot realistically expect to be an experienced null sec veteran within hours of jumping through your first null sec gate - You have a whole new game to learn. And that learning curve is a HUGE part about what makes living in null sec fun after years and years of playing this game.

Honestly, listening to people who obviously have very little clue about what makes null sec fun, lecture me on what's "wrong" with game mechanisms they don't understand is frankly irritating.

It's also hugely dissappointing because all you are doing here is telling other people who are new to Eve that nullsec is "too hard" and they should just give up like you did. And that's just bullsht man.

Escaping warp bubbles is relatively simple in a small, fast, covops. But once I get to one of the many totally empty 0.0 systems, what do I do with it? Go roam the belts blasting rat battleships up?

How does an unaware high sec resident successfully move a battleship or HAC to 0.0 without benefit of loading it on a carrier and having it jumped?

Better method is to purchase large ships in 0.0 at npc stations, then scout them with your covops from there to your destination. The most dangerous part is the empire>null gate, avoid this by purchasing inside 0.0.

You use that same covops as a scout, job done

Well most of the nullsec dwellers are blue to each other atm, and frequently travel in blobs, so that is how a lot of them survive. Also since you have to be in nullsec, to use them then you probably wont see that much of a problem with them. Who has hours to learn how to use a gate in a game of internet spaceships? Warp bubbles keep new folks out so the population doesn't change that much. Nah. I hope new players realize that the risk for them, and what they want to do out there, outweighs their rewards.

Escaping warp bubbles is relatively simple in a small, fast, covops. But once I get to one of the many totally empty 0.0 systems, what do I do with it? Go roam the belts blasting rat battleships up?

How does an unaware high sec resident successfully move a battleship or HAC to 0.0 without benefit of loading it on a carrier and having it jumped?

And while we're on the subject....how does a single player, running a single instance of EvE do that exactly? What are the real world mechanisms that makes that possible?

To help guide you in your thinking, don't assume the player has a dual box setup, nor does the player have more than one account.

I've been there, I've done this.....now tell me how a single player on a single account scouts for themselves.

it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.

you check intelligence reports, communicate with allies, and take it slow and safe. or just ask a friend. but you specified single player, as though EVE was some sort of single player game where everything was intended to do solo.

Back the truck up Akirel....many residents of high-sec are like, "wut?", if you mention "intelligence reports." It's like, "is that a skillbook?" Are you seriously assuming some schlub from Aunia is on the up and up with intel reports.

"Communicate with allies"....you mean the other hundreds of members in the NPC corp blundering around high-sec?

There's a huge proportion of the EvE population that does not read the forums....now, take that same single schlub from Aunia, happily churning out lvl 4 missions....and tell me how he gets a battleship out to null sec.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you can't even imagine that scenario. But I guarantee you....it happens every day. And every day another high sec dweller says, "screw that."

***************

This statement is patently false on it's face. If it were so Red China would have ruled the world long ago.
The point that the others are attempting to convey is the importance of balanced game mechanics and how they influence player behavior and participation.

If you really believe what you just said, then you have never been to nullsec.

99% of what you do in nullsec is your initiative and your decision.

And if you couldn't detect how tongue-in-cheek that post was... then what can I say?

Oh I've been to Zero many times with my Main, enough to recognize a "tag along" killmail e-peen when I see one.
Don't be offended. That is what you signed up for when you joined TEST or the GOONS or any other zero "Meat Puppet Machine".
As for your earlier comment about your Alliance finances being "transparent"... I just have to laugh when I hear poor pilots as ignorant of revenue streams as you apparently are. The "books" you are looking at are carefully fabricated to keep the "help" happy with their perceived share. You would be shocked if you saw the real numbers and where it went.

If you really want to fix the game... fix Corporation features to make Corporate revenue sharing a feature of the game that is performed by settings that Corporate members can see. This could be done thru actual "wages" or by fixing the broken stock share system in such a way that any positive Corporate eanings are paid out periodically to the members by game system according to settings that the Corporate management must acknowledge and can't unilaterally change without agreement by the troops. Take the distribution of Corporate revenues out of the arbitrary hands of the leadership and then you will find more wanting to participate. As it is now you are just at the whim of the guy handing out the gravy, with no way of knowing your share of the real benefits.

China is far more influential than any western nation in Asia, which has more than half the world's population. So it kinda does? And its on its way to dominate the rest of it. Also, if you analyze why nations like England got to be such a big deal, you merely add more support to the reasons that nullsec alliances maintain superiority - infrastructure, income, organization, etc.

Second, in what ****** up universe is 15 people having a shot at defeating 1000 balanced? it isn't. I don't think you have a concept of how many people are in those "blobs" you hate so much. People with an equal right to do as they please as you. Except 1000 of them decided that what they pleased was to kill you, and you want your opinion, as the extreme minority, to be the decider. what.

I never suggested that 15 should defeat 1000. I suggested that thousands in highsec had no interest in becoming the slaves serving the isk interests of 15 guys in zero who control the weak minded in zero, like yourself.

words

Hi, I'm part of the largest non-renter nullsec alliance. We have a comprehensive ship reimbursement program that covers all PvP losses in regions of strategic interest, and a fleet reimbursement program that covers losses of fleet doctrine ships in full. We also subsidize and reimburse capital and supercapital ships, pay out bounties to our members who suicide gank mining barges as part of our Gallente ice interdiction program and, in general, spend as much of the alliance's money on our members as we can within reason. We don't want our members to be forced endure the misery that is PvE.

Please tell me more about all of our moon mineral income going to our directorate.

visiting 0.0 a few times =/= living there full time - you don't learn ****, as is apparent by the hilariously misinformed blathering that followed that claim.

I could find out that TEST and Goon leadership were embezzling billions of ISK, and honestly, I wouldn't give two *****, because they still dump billions of ISK every week into paying for losses, creating fun things to do, hilarious projects, etc. The CFC is very member-centric.

Back the truck up Akirel....many residents of high-sec are like, "wut?", if you mention "intelligence reports." It's like, "is that a skillbook?" Are you seriously assuming some schlub from Aunia is on the up and up with intel reports.

"Communicate with allies"....you mean the other hundreds of members in the NPC corp blundering around high-sec?

There's a huge proportion of the EvE population that does not read the forums....now, take that same single schlub from Aunia, happily churning out lvl 4 missions....and tell me how he gets a battleship out to null sec.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you can't even imagine that scenario. But I guarantee you....it happens every day. And every day another high sec dweller says, "screw that."

Hi ! I'm the Mittanni and I am a river of benefits to my slav.. er, uh people !
Trust me! No .. Really.. Trust me! I mean no Goon ever scammed anyone... ever.. well .. almost never....

except those benefits? they actually happen.

************

Cents on the dollar mate.

poor testies so easily trolled

honestly, my corp goes from high-sec to null-sec for roams all the time, heck, sev3rance is fun as hell to harass. so much as a neut enters systema dn they all start freaking out, or if your bored you can always get a covops and go watch a cascade and TEST fleet blow the crap out of eachother, and loot some nice T2 modules off a dead cascade or 2.

honestly, null-sec alliances dont ahve this amazing amount of "manpower" you describe, there are DOZENS of high-low-null sonnections in regions so under-utilized there is rarely if ever patrols keeping people out, for example, the region Devoid. barely anyone ever in that low-sec, and even rarer to find anyone in the null-sec connecting systems, no gatecamps, no "mega blobs" just a sev3rance miner or 2 waiting to get his face blown off whoever wanders in.

i think basically what im trying to say is, have a buddy in a frigate fly thorugh on some SCOUTING MISSIONS, and check around to see about system activity, chances are there are several null-sec systems in a constellation near you that have been almost forgotten about by the null-sec entities. The reason why most "high sec" players dotn go to null is that it requires EFFORT, thats the big thing about high sec players, they arent necessarily RISK ADVERSE, but rather WORK ADVERSE.

poor testies so easily trolled

welcome to the internet, home of Poe's Law.

Except this guy was the same moron who suggested this, so all signs point to mouthbreather, considering his terrible attempts to self-upvote and disguise himself while retaining precisely the same writing style, down to those stars after every quote.

************

Cents on the dollar mate.

ECONOMICAL LOGIC ERROR

your proposing "cents on the dollar" as if they should be paid a better ratio...

companies have expenses
companies have many employees

if you pay your employee 2 cents per every dollar the store makes in profit, then you have the maximum ability to have 50 employees, and zero growth for the store.

more then likely, lets say for example wal-mart, will pay each employee in that store about 1/3 a cent per dolalr made in store profits (not that you pay is dependent on store sales, but it is an example of what money they would reserve for wages would be drawn from). if thy paid them mroe the company woudl go out of business.

so eys, im sure that TEST players would LOVE to be making more money from the corp itself, but that would run the risk of too much money going out at once, which would necessitate the closing of programs such as ship reimbursement.


now im no expert on the economics of TEST, but in any business, expecting to be paid more then "cents on the dollar" by your company is mighty unrealistic and absurd.

i think your problem is you never took the time in elementary or middle school to learn econoimcs, am i right?

ECONOMICAL LOGIC ERROR

your proposing "cents on the dollar" as if they should be paid a better ratio...

companies have expenses
companies have many employees

if you pay your employee 2 cents per every dollar the store makes in profit, then you have the maximum ability to have 50 employees, and zero growth for the store.

more then likely, lets say for example wal-mart, will pay each employee in that store about 1/3 a cent per dolalr made in store profits (not that you pay is dependent on store sales, but it is an example of what money they would reserve for wages would be drawn from). if thy paid them mroe the company woudl go out of business.

so eys, im sure that TEST players would LOVE to be making more money from the corp itself, but that would run the risk of too much money going out at once, which would necessitate the closing of programs such as ship reimbursement.


now im no expert on the economics of TEST, but in any business, expecting to be paid more then "cents on the dollar" by your company is mighty unrealistic and absurd.

i think your problem is you never took the time in elementary or middle school to learn econoimcs, am i right?

Well he doesn't have a leg to stand on and he knows it. As if the Goon leadership is going to divulge to him what their revenue stream includes and how it will be spent. There are no mechanisms in the game to do this for him and this is the exploit that every Corporate/Alliance in Zero has more or less used to it's benefit.

As for the Goons specifically... What do they say about "honor among thieves"?

Here is an idea that might make 0.0 more inviting. Well the idiot who wrote it thinks so:
Idiots Idea

Actually, our leadership does divulge revenue sources and expenses. We publish our finances and our auditor is obliged to publish every financial discrepancy in his monthly report, and he has the full director APIs for the relevant corps.

***********

and I have some great water front property I can sell you cheap... just as soon as the tide goes out.

***********

and I have some great water front property I can sell you cheap... just as soon as the tide goes out.

This is fairly dated, but it gives you a good idea of how our ISK is spent.

http://www.kugu tsumen.com/showthread.php?6254-Goons&p=149086&viewfull=1#post149086

But please keep suggesting that we're all slaves keeping The Mittani's moongoo empire running.

Pardon me if I don't drink the Kool Aid...

Just be honest warp bubbles are not necessary, and prevent many players from attempting nullsec.

...
If you need friends in null to be successful in null, and you've never been to null before and have no friends there, then doesn't that mean you get to lose ships repeatedly until you somehow magically make friends in null?
...

Uhh, connections and friends are just about the most important thing for success *anywhere*, from life to EVE. It is *NOT* hard to join an established nullsec alliance, and it is simply ******** to complain that the combined will of 1000 individual human beings is going to steamroll the combined will of 15.

...
first mistake is being a part of an NPC corp. second mistake is trying to take a freaking BS into null.

you know what my first experiences in nullsec were, as a complete newbie years ago? flying a freaking rifter and having locals chase me across entire regions. that was absurdly fun, and i had no ******* clue what i was doing. so don't assume everyone interested in nullsec is the kind of idiot who would try to roam solo in a battleship.

Feel free to give me a more convincing argument concerning the alleged trillions of ISK that The Mittani embezzles for his alleged RMT empire than "YOU JUST DON'T SEE IT MAN."

Hold on, I think this guy thinks that there are people who take him seriously.

I don't have a need to convince you of anything. It is the highsec crowd that needs convincing and you are a Goon.
You don't seem to understand where you stand in the Eve community when it comes to believability.

Hold on, I think this guy thinks that there are people who take him seriously.

As for the Goons specifically... What do they say about "honor among thieves"?

*********

Well you seem to, otherwise you wouldn't keep coming back to do damage control with your buddy Andski..

*********

Well you seem to, otherwise you wouldn't keep coming back to do damage control with your buddy Andski..

Open map - statistics - active ppl 30mins - think!

Hisec/lovsec:
- Incursions (billions of isks income)
- FW missions (billions of isks income)
- LVL4 missions (...)
- easy resarch, manufacturing, access to mods/ships/stuff
- can use fancy implants +5, slaves, snakes...
- access to WH, minerals, ice, invention, POSes, skills, etc etc

Hisec is carebear haven. Most ppl in eve are carebears, they dont have to go/want to go to 0.0 - just look at that fuc*** map and think ppl. Red dots in center of the map - hisec systems full of players/alts, look at 0.0 - cold and empty.

My main idea to fix 0.0 is :
- delayed/no local in 0.0/lov sec - make PvP intresting because local is to powerful intel
- in hisec you shouldnt be making bilions of isks and have easy access to 90% of game features - make things avaible only in 0.0 like skills, stuff etc.

Long live carebears!

Or just recruit more people with similar goal. You essentially will fail to do anything if you try to impose your goal on someone who is not interested in such.

Forum ate my post!

CCP goal should be (as global policy) to intrest ppl to 0.0 but what they are doing? Theyre making hisec even better place to live - incursions (billions of isks,teamplay), easy access to nearly everything, WHs - a lot better than 0.0

So whats intresting in 0.0? Politics, capitals, blob warfare, empty systems, officer spawns, mining (total fail), anomalies, bubbles, pirate missions?

Isks are key factor in this game and thats why most ppl dont have goals focused on 0.0, because they can make them safely in hisec.

Some changes that would make carebears unhappy but game would be a lot more intresting:
- T3 ships not allowed in hisec (illegal technology!)
- lvl4 missions in lovsec only
- very few incursions in hi, more in lov and 0.0
- pirate implants banned in hisec (theyre pirate/illegal after all)
- pirate ships banned in hisec
- 20% hisec (faction) tax included to every item price - 0.0 no taxes / alliance taxes
- only basic items in hisec LP stores
- no ice fields in hi sec
- manufacturing / resarch slots price depends on popularity of system (something like offices price)
- some skills/BPOs avaible only in lov/0.0 for LPs

Unfortunetly nothing of this is going to happen.

My main idea to fix 0.0 is :
- delayed/no local in 0.0/lov sec - make PvP intresting because local is to powerful intel
- in hisec you shouldnt be making bilions of isks and have easy access to 90% of game features - make things avaible only in 0.0 like skills, stuff etc.

I vote that for one whole month we make all of Highsec and Lowsec full blown Nullsec. No concord, sov and piracy all over the place. Lets see how many people log in for that month and how quickly EvE dies.

And once you're podded during this month of anarchy, you can not use that character until the universe gets reset to its "normal" order of security: no market orders running, no skills training, nothing until your clone can be rescrambled into shape...