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James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
837
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:They should remember that Home is for ALL Caldari and not just citizens of Ishukone. Only when all factions have an interest in the success of the peace will the peace endure. I assume when you say GÇ£all factionsGÇ¥ you include the majority of the planetary population, which is Gallente?
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I must admit that I am concerned about the lack of transparency in Ishukone's actions lately. I wouldn't be overly concerned Pieter.
In Ishukone the Federation has found a rational negotiating partner.
Surely you can trust them to fairly represent the States case, while retaining the flexibility to attain a just, honorable and lasting peace.
Our cousins in the State may well be surprised at the generosity of spirit that exists within the Federation regarding the disposition of Caldari Prime now that the choice is in large part... ours. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
81
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Quote:What good fortune that Kaalakiota and Lai Dai aren't active on Caldari Prime-- though such a thing could never really happen, as KK and Lai Dai would never stoop to diplomacy.
You keep fighting your eternal war. Ishukone Okusaika will tend to Caldari Prime. If it wasnt for Heth, patriots and the provists you would have nothing to negotiate for. You think you can come in now at the end, try and take someone else glory. People still remember Tibus Heth the conqueror personally raise the State flag over the city of Arcurio. And the fact that he completely failed to close the deal, instead using it as an excuse to drag out a war in the name of harvesting "Enemy Blood". What could have been total victory in a day, turned into five years of nothing, with a Titan sized cherry on top of the ten layer **** cake he served us. I was there, on the ground, through it all, right along with kirjuunen who lost their lives to take back what was ours, and the fact that people like you think his single minded bull**** did anything but insult their memories by failing to consolidate what we paid for in blood paints a damn clear picture of the Provist (lack of) mindset. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
698
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
It doesn't really take a lot to blow your tops these days, professionals through and through.
The reason for the original disagreement was that blanket statement discarding any non-Ishukone participation regarding the outcome of the situation on Home as essentially having been useless. I can see how one can take offense to that, especially if one has indeed been directly involved. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Gosakumori Noh
Seraglio Hastatus Hagia Sophia
613
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Well, piffle. If only I'd realized the opportunity sooner, I would have invited the diplomatic gang over the horizon for our celebration of the dead on Great Tekojarvi (in places, not quite as frozen)!
A pristine glacial environment now largely free of highly toxic oxidized tritanium and radioactive heavy metal dusts demonstrates what might be achieved when we turn our attention away from creating problems and towards fixing them.
Although the former Executor never took up my invitation to shelter himself in the mushroom cellar, I would be more than delighted to show representatives of the respective corporations around. My neighbor, Monsieur Foiegreuliere, makes the most amazing traditional Caldari buttermilk pastries and we'll put on a show! In fact, I haven't sent the choir back to Athra... Amarr, yet! They boys are such a delight to have around, all chirping three thousand of them. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
82
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:It doesn't really take a lot to blow your tops these days, professionals through and through.
The reason for the original disagreement was that blanket statement discarding any non-Ishukone participation regarding the outcome of the situation on Home as essentially having been useless. I can see how one can take offense to that, especially if one has indeed been directly involved.
Added, Re: Agiri Falken:
Apparently being a forklift driver does not make you a geat leader or tactician. While I'm certain we could've achieved much more with another more competent set of leaders, or a more determined basis of support in the big eight, but I'm dead certain we wouldn't have achieved anything on that scale with the past status quo. Mostly because the past status quo was even worse for the majority of the State, yeah. Since we more or less agree on that set of facts, I'll leave it there on that matter.
To the rest of you... This whole discussion really needs to just die. If all we can do is sit around and blame each other for what we arent doing, then it's not worth it. Ishukone made their choice to sit out the war, and accepted the consequences. Unless the other Megas get onboard with the cleanup... REALLY get onboard, not just complain about it and insist they're entitled to their share because they say so, they're not entitled to transparency, profit, or say in the negotiations. Just like Ishukone, it's their choice.
Pride is the coin to be paid for progress in this case. Those who refuse to pay the toll, don't get to cross the bridge. I understand why they wouldn't, even sympathize in a way, but Winds be damned if "I've earned it" gets anyone anywhere. The horrid truth of the matter is that those five years of bloodshed weren't for Home. They were for the forklift driver who couldn't get enough carnage on his own. All we bought with the blood we shed was emnity, and that makes me sick at heart for all the boys and girls who don't come back like we do. Home was literally won in a day. I dare you to provide any real reason for the five years thereafter that couldn't have been wrapped up in a strongarmed treaty. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3344
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:Ishukone made their choice to sit out the war, and accepted the consequences.
Given the chronic financial pressure they were under in the wake of that unpleasantness with FNS Wandering Saint, I don't think that's a decision they can reasonably be criticized for. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1467
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:What good fortune, Gesakaarin, that the State is not a democracy. What good fortune that Kaalakiota and Lai Dai aren't active on Caldari Prime-- though such a thing could never really happen, as KK and Lai Dai would never stoop to diplomacy.
You keep fighting your eternal war. Ishukone Okusaika will tend to Caldari Prime.
Come now, Mademoiselle Priano, I know not where such tangential thoughts could have developed to be directed towards me when all I did was express my shock, my confusion, and my sadness that it appears that in the article in question there had been no mention of any support or positive sentiment by any Caldari institutions to the news of further and increased Ishukone collaboration with the Federal Senate -- to the point that it actually seems to imply (in my mind at least) that not even the majority of Caldari citizens have regarded the news with support.
Imagine my surprise when it appears that the only support Ishukone has received comes only from the Gallentean quarter, who no doubt - just as in this IGS communique - are more than willing to provide their congratulations to their new found ally and Caldari collaborationist. It would appear to me, that indeed unlike Kaalakiota or Lai Dai, that Ishukone is acting contrary to the popular sentiment of the Caldari people. Not because, as you imply, due to the pursuit of diplomacy but rather that such a pursuit was conducted not just without consensus but without even the attempt at consensus with the CEP. Indeed, it would appear that at present Ishukone appears more willing to oblige the Federation through dialogue with the Senate than to oblige the State through dialogue with the CEP.
Now, granted I am but a humble independent corporate military contractor, so my grasp of such things as the management of perception and Boardroom realpolitik are perhaps not as refined as say, Haatakan Oiritsuu, but increasingly it does appear that the decisions on the part of Mens Reppola have little to do with either peace or diplomacy but rather the pursuit of power, and self-interest of Ishukone by continued collaboration with the Federation that advantages only Ishukone and not the rest of the State. That while the professions of conducting such collaboration under the guise of peace my assuage a Federal audience, it has done nothing to convince a majority of Caldari companies and the citizenry of the State. I would say not because of a fundamental disagreement with the concept of peace with the Federation, but rather that it appears particularly disingenuous coming from Ishukone.
An Ishukone whose actions display the garish colours of preferring to support the interests of the Gallente Federation over that of the Caldari State which is evident in the apparent contempt they have shown to both the CEP and the Caldari people in their complete disregard at present for seeking to achieve political and popular consensus. No, the State is not a democracy, companies do not need to vote, but there does exist tradition and the pursuit of the Greater Good through the building of consensus through dialogue and discussion. As such, I can only surmise that among the Caldari majority in the State at present the issue is not bounded within the paradigms of war or peace, but rather the continued displays by Ishukone to pursue their own policies of self-enrichment through the pursuit of, "Peace" with the Federation whilst abandoning the pursuit of the Greater Good of the Caldari State in acting on their own accord with little interest in the tradition of dialogue and discussion among their fellow Caldari. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6119
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
You will address me as Priano-haani-- or have those Sansha nanites caused you to forget decorum as well as decency? Priano Trans-Stellar is recruiting! Interested in nullsec combat? Research? Exploration? Contact Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3344
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
The option you don't appear to be giving due consideration to is that perhaps Ishukone genuinely believes that the course they are charting is in the State's best interests, and that attempting to secure consensus and popular support would only result in damaging delays and harm the Caldari people.
Unilateral action is not necessarily sinister, and maverick decisions are not necessarily unwise. Mens Reppola-haan is CEO of one of the Big 8: He earned the position on merit and thus far has done nothing substantial to evidence that he is incapable of living up to that responsibility.
I do not know (though I do trust) that Ishukone's actions are in the State's best interests... but I certainly don't think that veiled musings which stop just shy of being accusations are. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1467
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:You will address me as Priano-haani-- or have those Sansha nanites caused you to forget decorum as well as decency?
I have considered your request and must unfortunately decline as I feel it the most apt honorific given where your corporate loyalties lie.
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Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3067
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:You will address me as Priano-haani-- or have those Sansha nanites caused you to forget decorum as well as decency?
Careful now, Pyre doesn't want to be reminded about that. Besides, according to her, they aren't real Nation anyways! They're just cute little neutral pirates. Even if they were, it's all For The State. That's good enough reason for them to work with Nation loyalists (not just for us to work with the Fed). Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6119
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Pardon, Oniseki-Charantes-haani; I forgot that we were protecting them from backlash due to their collaboration with the Sanshas.
Citizen Veikitamo, I am not privy to Reppola-haan's plans. I can only trust that he is working to either expand Ishukone Okusaika's interests on Caldari Prime, or has other matters to tend to-- but surely just as you speak in favor of dialogue, we must trust that dialogue is the aim here? Just as we know that Ishukone Okusaika is a loyal member of the State, surely we must trust that each corporation must serve its own interests, so that each megacorporation may better serve the State?
In any case, time will tell. I have faith in Reppola-haan's ability to lead, and time will surely show this faith well-placed. Priano Trans-Stellar is recruiting! Interested in nullsec combat? Research? Exploration? Contact Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1467
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote: Careful now, Pyre doesn't want to be reminded about that. Besides, according to her, they aren't real Nation anyways! They're just cute little neutral pirates. Even if they were, it's all For The State. That's good enough reason for them to work with Nation loyalists (not just for us to work with the Fed).
Please, continue, Mademoiselle Charantes. Consider me intrigued.
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Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3068
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote: Careful now, Pyre doesn't want to be reminded about that. Besides, according to her, they aren't real Nation anyways! They're just cute little neutral pirates. Even if they were, it's all For The State. That's good enough reason for them to work with Nation loyalists (not just for us to work with the Fed).
Please, continue, Mademoiselle Charantes. Consider me intrigued.
Oh no, you called me Mademoiselle. It hurts so badly. Oh, no. Oh. Please, help. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2286
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
I do have to wonder, why are many Caldari displeased with Ishukone's actions? Yes, I can understand many still have animosity towards the Federation, and rightfully so. However, surely advocating for peace is beneficial in the long run?
Then again, those weapon sales will go down when the war ends... Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6120
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
I think-- I think she's taken with Gallente affectations? I'm not sure I understand. The language is so phlegmy. Perhaps she has a cold? I'm sure they have nanites for that...? Priano Trans-Stellar is recruiting! Interested in nullsec combat? Research? Exploration? Contact Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2286
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I think-- I think she's taken with Gallente affectations? I'm not sure I understand. The language is so phlegmy. Perhaps she has a cold?
Excusez-moi? Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Kyoko Sakoda
Sakoda Security Services
123
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
I like pie.
There, I believe I've now made the most meaningful contribution thus far. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3344
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Posted - 2014.03.21 02:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Then again, those weapon sales will go down when the war ends...
Nah. Nobody ever went broke selling weapons.
An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Trollkitamo Guesmypostin
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
HURR DURR ANTI SKUD CALDAREE ROLEPLAYZ DERPDERPDERP IMMA TROLLIN UR BOARDZ |
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Trollina Onipostme
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
DURR HURR PRO SKUD CALDAREE ROLEPLAYS HERPDERPHERP IMMA TROLLIN U BACKZ
I GOTSA WAIT 5 MINNITS BEFO POSTIN CUS IMMA BIG BAD LIBBERS ROLEPLAYERINGS DURRRRRRRRRRR. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2287
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Roleplaying? Sorry, we don't do that kinky stuff here. Mostly intergalactic politics. I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
207
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Posted - 2014.03.21 04:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Roleplaying? Sorry, we don't do that kinky stuff here. Mostly intergalactic politics. I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere. We don't? *puts handcuffs and CONCORD uniform away* I mean, right, we don't..... The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6120
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Posted - 2014.03.21 04:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
CONCORD clearly needs to look at its licensing requirements.
Maker, now I know why those baseliners think we're mad... Priano Trans-Stellar is recruiting! Interested in nullsec combat? Research? Exploration? Contact Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
97
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Posted - 2014.03.21 04:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:CONCORD clearly needs to look at its licensing requirements.
Maker, now I know why those baseliners think we're mad...
I thought it was mighty hilarious... to be perfectly honest. Not the time or the place, no, but enjoyable all the same.
Everyone enjoys a good ... whatever that was. |
Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
207
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Posted - 2014.03.21 04:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:CONCORD clearly needs to look at its licensing requirements.
Maker, now I know why those baseliners think we're mad... Because we blow each other up just to pass time and get a few giggles? The lack of money is the root of all evil. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3365
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I don't remember seeing you there, Priano-haani, but even if you were (actually especially if you were) I wouldn't expect you to talk about me as if I had contributed nothing to the peace. I had thought such a blow below you, Tuulinen. While you're waving your heiian around, you're insulting every pilot who operates outside of your conditioned operational pattern, who was deployed elsewhere, or who simply was stopped at the stargates outside of the system. Frankly, you're insulting me, personally, because-- what? Because you want to have been the dutiful soldier, beyond reproach because of your service?
I am the dutiful soldier, damn you. Especially because my service includes a number of very nasty jobs that I can't talk about at nice parties, in addition to the ones that bring glory. I drink the tea as it comes and I'm proud of that record, and if that causes you some degree of discomfort or upset, well I don't really give a damn.
Makoto Priano wrote:Choke on your tea, Tuulinen, because you haven't contributed to the peace any more than Tibus Heth saved Caldari Prime. Saying anything else is self-aggrandizement with no respect to the truth of the matter.
The truth of the matter is that Heth's grip on power was secure for so long as only his enemies opposed him. He didn't break until he lost the loyalty of pilots like myself who were naturally disposed to agree with his initial policies of merit over all, strength and honour and a robust dialog with the State's enemies but who took issue with his later policies.
In the meantime, everytime I climb into my pod it is to contribute to the peace. Or, at the very least, to protect Caldari State citizens from the realities of the war. Again, that's just the facts of the matter and if those facts cause you discomfort or if your own service to the State is a little harder to clearly outline, again I don't give a damn.
Makoto Priano wrote:Were it not for Ishukone Okusaika's willingness to negotiate, once orbital support was lost, our marines would have eventually lost the rest of Caldari Prime. As it stands, that very corporation you slander as untrustworthy and opaque is the reason why you aren't passing through Federations customs to step on Caldari Prime.
I don't get to step onto Caldari Prime unless I trick my way through the Federation customs that exist at the atmo-limit or Luminaire ingress jumpgates. The battle and Ishukone's excellent negotiations with the Federation Senate didn't change things in that respect one iota for me and those like me - people who did not gain anything but who were expected to give the full measure in any case.
And here you put words into my mouth. Where I asked for more openness and for opportunities for other stakeholders to participate, you see slanderous claims of unreliability. The claim of opacity should stand without challenge, since ALL parties agree that Ishukone has not been sharing much in their reports surely you cannot take issue at THAT. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
509
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Going as expected, I suppose.
-Eran |
Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
246
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Going as expected, I suppose.
-Eran Disgustingly so. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3365
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote: Seriously? What is your problem?
You think to drag me into an argument against my own colleague? You should know better than to think I'll back you up before I back her up. You're not Ishukone. You're not I-RED. You're not even friendly with I-RED. You're barely on good terms with me. I don't like your attitude, I don't like your politics, and I don't like who you work for. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.
Frankly, Kat, I don't think you've ever really understood what I think, even. Asking you to understand what I feel would be highly unfair since, historically, you have issues working out what YOU feel, half the time. My problem, since you ask, was your little friend's attack of amnesia. At no point did I ask you to back me up, beyond a factual statement regarding the contribution of non-Ishukone pilots to Ishukone initiatives - contributions which arguably involved more risk, since they required us to back Ishukone against the then-Executor and the Caldari Navy. Did you forget that part? I seem to remember Lai-Dai and Wiyrkomi and Kaalakiota pilots flying your wing those days, too. Are they also to be edited out of the histories?
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Yes, you were there assisting with evacuation of injured civilians (regardless of their loyalties) following the Third Battle of Caldari Prime. An admirable job you did there too. We're all thankful for that, especially the people whose half scorched bodies were pulled from wreckage. A lot of people died anyways. Radiation poisoning, respiratory infections, suicide, and worse. Yet far far more would have died if you weren't there, trapped all alone beneath tonnes rubble in the darkness, or choking on the ashes of their own homes. Victims of war. The fact that you were there with me above the planet doing what we could to ferry survivors to station was more than anybody asked of you.
Yes. We couldn't get everyone out. And the casualties were just as horrendous on the ground as they were on the decks of the ships lost in orbit. The whole thing was a tragedy and I, for one, don't feel you got enough credit for the job you did mobilising help for those victims. That said, I never asked for thanks or medals, just that it be remembered that on that day, there were Kalaakiota employees there, doing what could be done, alongside you and yours.
Katrina Oniseki wrote:But don't you dare for one second come in here waving that good deed around like you deserve another aluminum foil medal on your chest. Frak that. I wasn't up there so I can throw it in people's faces. I was up there because it was the right thing to do at the time, and I had the ability to do it.
Once again, you misunderstand.
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Now are you done demanding validation so you can win a space argument with Priano-haani, or did you want to **** in my general direction some more?
Not even if you were on fire, Katrina.
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