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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:22:00 -
[1261] - Quote
Boosts... lets see have to have the motor running to get that boost and that means that you have to buy then import the ice products into the WH which is just more freight that has to be moved. Orca works great at that when boosts are needed at a very nice price (free) Frankly mining is a sideline in the WH anyway. Just would like to see the ship actually have a function which makes it worthwhile again.
The bigger issue is skills and how they interact with these new plans. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:56:00 -
[1262] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Fish Hunter wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Please try and keep up. The reason people don't use the space is because they do not need to. Moongoo funds the SRP. People don't need income of their own to replace ships with SRP. Now if you are still following along, reducing the profitability of moongoo would force people to make their own ISK as SRP dries up and thus USE THE SPACE. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would require players to actually you know play the game.
Players don't use their space for many reasons. Maybe they're off staging in a system waiting to respond for a fleet. More than likely for the vast majority of players (those that play 0-4 hours per day) would be more than happy to rat or mine in nullsec if it was easy and consistent but often times its not. If you don't want to deal with hauling **** around in nullsec it just adds to the unatractiveness. It can be hard to restock on ammo and drones. it is usually quite hard(annoying) to get a new ship if you lose one (can't autopilot to jita and back). Usually you can't just login and hit undock without checking local/intel, well you could but once in a while you'd find yourself getting ganked. Most guys stay in highsec cause they enjoy the consistency. Those who hang out in low/null most of the time enjoy their experience there. None of which requires the changes presented by CCP to accomplish. Which is the whole point of this thread. CCP presented an Idea, and we pick it apart. These changes do nothing constructive for the game and are actually deconstructive as a whole.
These changes offer a reason to leave high sec for miners. 20% more isk infact. It also makes POS usefull and gives us a reason to use compression rather that exploiting a loophole with 425s. Plus miners everywhere get a little buff to income. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Rain6637
Team Evil
13037
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:57:00 -
[1263] - Quote
why wouldn't you shut your holes down first
have you ever seen a rorqual spider tank in EFT? they're beasts, and with their drone bonus they're not defenseless. President of the-áCommissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III |
Keltin
MSE-corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:10:00 -
[1264] - Quote
Nope with these changes, and forcing people out into Null/Low whatever security status of the system. It's always about PVP to CCP and making the PVP crowd happy the fact is without high-sec industry (which this change affects in a 72% way) as I will no longer invest a single second of my time into industry. Not one second of my time, if you want me to PVP fine, but I'm not mining for an alliance, if that is what is demanded, then I just plain quit EVE. I'm not going to be a drone and do as CCP wants/commands. I enjoy a relaxed and casual atmosphere to a game, there is nothing casual and relaxed about the "Null-Sec" life. And with one Alliance capable of destroying all others out in "Null-Sec" why should we play along CCP? You have manipulated industry in the past (T2 miners anyone). We caught onto it at a late stage. And I quit for a long time after that I've come back and not bitter about what you forced us into. at that time.
This game proves that when the "power" is in the hands of a few there is absolute and complete corruption.
I do not care to be a part of your social experiment if you are "forcing" people into the "alliance" game. I will not play it. Thanks for your consideration CCP.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
392
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:20:00 -
[1265] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Fish Hunter wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Please try and keep up. The reason people don't use the space is because they do not need to. Moongoo funds the SRP. People don't need income of their own to replace ships with SRP. Now if you are still following along, reducing the profitability of moongoo would force people to make their own ISK as SRP dries up and thus USE THE SPACE. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would require players to actually you know play the game.
Players don't use their space for many reasons. Maybe they're off staging in a system waiting to respond for a fleet. More than likely for the vast majority of players (those that play 0-4 hours per day) would be more than happy to rat or mine in nullsec if it was easy and consistent but often times its not. If you don't want to deal with hauling **** around in nullsec it just adds to the unatractiveness. It can be hard to restock on ammo and drones. it is usually quite hard(annoying) to get a new ship if you lose one (can't autopilot to jita and back). Usually you can't just login and hit undock without checking local/intel, well you could but once in a while you'd find yourself getting ganked. Most guys stay in highsec cause they enjoy the consistency. Those who hang out in low/null most of the time enjoy their experience there. None of which requires the changes presented by CCP to accomplish. Which is the whole point of this thread. CCP presented an Idea, and we pick it apart. These changes do nothing constructive for the game and are actually deconstructive as a whole. These changes offer a reason to leave high sec for miners. 20% more isk infact. It also makes POS usefull and gives us a reason to use compression rather that exploiting a loophole with 425s. Plus miners everywhere get a little buff to income.
If the 400% increase to mineral value didn't drag them from HS I doubt a 20% increase wil. But hey while we are pretending Im sure that the safety of Deklein and the Awoxing of minners is a wonderful invitation to.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:31:00 -
[1266] - Quote
Keltin wrote:Nope with these changes, and forcing people out into Null/Low whatever security status of the system. It's always about PVP to CCP and making the PVP crowd happy the fact is without high-sec industry (which this change affects in a 72% way) as I will no longer invest a single second of my time into industry. Not one second of my time, if you want me to PVP fine, but I'm not mining for an alliance, if that is what is demanded, then I just plain quit EVE. I'm not going to be a drone and do as CCP wants/commands. I enjoy a relaxed and casual atmosphere to a game, there is nothing casual and relaxed about the "Null-Sec" life. And with one Alliance capable of destroying all others out in "Null-Sec" why should we play along CCP? You have manipulated industry in the past (T2 miners anyone). We caught onto it at a late stage. And I quit for a long time after that I've come back and not bitter about what you forced us into. at that time.
This game proves that when the "power" is in the hands of a few there is absolute and complete corruption.
I do not care to be a part of your social experiment if you are "forcing" people into the "alliance" game. I will not play it. Thanks for your consideration CCP.
So you are going to quit EVE because CCP are going to reward miners who live in riskier places with 20% more reward?
you do know that you will be earning the same as you do right now in highsec right? The only nerf happening is to junk loot which most people wont notice and is resulting in a slight buff for miners like you.
So you are going to quit for CCP giving you a little buff and finally rewarding you for taking risks outside of highsec? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:33:00 -
[1267] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Fish Hunter wrote:Mario Putzo wrote: Please try and keep up. The reason people don't use the space is because they do not need to. Moongoo funds the SRP. People don't need income of their own to replace ships with SRP. Now if you are still following along, reducing the profitability of moongoo would force people to make their own ISK as SRP dries up and thus USE THE SPACE. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would require players to actually you know play the game.
Players don't use their space for many reasons. Maybe they're off staging in a system waiting to respond for a fleet. More than likely for the vast majority of players (those that play 0-4 hours per day) would be more than happy to rat or mine in nullsec if it was easy and consistent but often times its not. If you don't want to deal with hauling **** around in nullsec it just adds to the unatractiveness. It can be hard to restock on ammo and drones. it is usually quite hard(annoying) to get a new ship if you lose one (can't autopilot to jita and back). Usually you can't just login and hit undock without checking local/intel, well you could but once in a while you'd find yourself getting ganked. Most guys stay in highsec cause they enjoy the consistency. Those who hang out in low/null most of the time enjoy their experience there. None of which requires the changes presented by CCP to accomplish. Which is the whole point of this thread. CCP presented an Idea, and we pick it apart. These changes do nothing constructive for the game and are actually deconstructive as a whole. These changes offer a reason to leave high sec for miners. 20% more isk infact. It also makes POS usefull and gives us a reason to use compression rather that exploiting a loophole with 425s. Plus miners everywhere get a little buff to income. If the 250% increase to mineral value didn't drag them from HS I doubt a 20% increase wil. But hey while we are pretending Im sure that the awoxing in deklein screams come mine with us!
miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
164
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:33:00 -
[1268] - Quote
Keltin wrote:Nope with these changes, and forcing people out into Null/Low whatever security status of the system. It's always about PVP to CCP and making the PVP crowd happy the fact is without high-sec industry (which this change affects in a 72% way) as I will no longer invest a single second of my time into industry. Not one second of my time, if you want me to PVP fine, but I'm not mining for an alliance, if that is what is demanded, then I just plain quit EVE. I'm not going to be a drone and do as CCP wants/commands. I enjoy a relaxed and casual atmosphere to a game, there is nothing casual and relaxed about the "Null-Sec" life. And with one Alliance capable of destroying all others out in "Null-Sec" why should we play along CCP? You have manipulated industry in the past (T2 miners anyone). We caught onto it at a late stage. And I quit for a long time after that I've come back and not bitter about what you forced us into. at that time.
This game proves that when the "power" is in the hands of a few there is absolute and complete corruption.
I do not care to be a part of your social experiment if you are "forcing" people into the "alliance" game. I will not play it. Thanks for your consideration CCP.
Goodbye
I will be more than happy to fill the void you leave behind and harvest even greater profit |
Keltin
MSE-corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:37:00 -
[1269] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Keltin wrote:Nope with these changes, and forcing people out into Null/Low whatever security status of the system. It's always about PVP to CCP and making the PVP crowd happy the fact is without high-sec industry (which this change affects in a 72% way) as I will no longer invest a single second of my time into industry. Not one second of my time, if you want me to PVP fine, but I'm not mining for an alliance, if that is what is demanded, then I just plain quit EVE. I'm not going to be a drone and do as CCP wants/commands. I enjoy a relaxed and casual atmosphere to a game, there is nothing casual and relaxed about the "Null-Sec" life. And with one Alliance capable of destroying all others out in "Null-Sec" why should we play along CCP? You have manipulated industry in the past (T2 miners anyone). We caught onto it at a late stage. And I quit for a long time after that I've come back and not bitter about what you forced us into. at that time.
This game proves that when the "power" is in the hands of a few there is absolute and complete corruption.
I do not care to be a part of your social experiment if you are "forcing" people into the "alliance" game. I will not play it. Thanks for your consideration CCP.
So you are going to quit EVE because CCP are going to reward miners who live in riskier places with 20% more reward? you do know that you will be earning the same as you do right now in highsec right? The only nerf happening is to junk loot which most people wont notice and is resulting in a slight buff for miners like you. So you are going to quit for CCP giving you a little buff and finally rewarding you for taking risks outside of highsec?
Refine Rates
20% not even close the refine value before and after, the after value with perfect refine is 28% of what it was previously. That's an 72% nerf for high-sec mining.
Where are people getting this "20%" this "risk vs reward" is not even a factor in this large of a nerf. Look at the actual numbers.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:44:00 -
[1270] - Quote
Keltin wrote:baltec1 wrote:Keltin wrote:Nope with these changes, and forcing people out into Null/Low whatever security status of the system. It's always about PVP to CCP and making the PVP crowd happy the fact is without high-sec industry (which this change affects in a 72% way) as I will no longer invest a single second of my time into industry. Not one second of my time, if you want me to PVP fine, but I'm not mining for an alliance, if that is what is demanded, then I just plain quit EVE. I'm not going to be a drone and do as CCP wants/commands. I enjoy a relaxed and casual atmosphere to a game, there is nothing casual and relaxed about the "Null-Sec" life. And with one Alliance capable of destroying all others out in "Null-Sec" why should we play along CCP? You have manipulated industry in the past (T2 miners anyone). We caught onto it at a late stage. And I quit for a long time after that I've come back and not bitter about what you forced us into. at that time.
This game proves that when the "power" is in the hands of a few there is absolute and complete corruption.
I do not care to be a part of your social experiment if you are "forcing" people into the "alliance" game. I will not play it. Thanks for your consideration CCP.
So you are going to quit EVE because CCP are going to reward miners who live in riskier places with 20% more reward? you do know that you will be earning the same as you do right now in highsec right? The only nerf happening is to junk loot which most people wont notice and is resulting in a slight buff for miners like you. So you are going to quit for CCP giving you a little buff and finally rewarding you for taking risks outside of highsec? Refine Rates20% not even close the refine value before and after, the after value with perfect refine is 28% of what it was previously. That's an 72% nerf for high-sec mining. Where are people getting this "20%" this "risk vs reward" is not even a factor in this large of a nerf. Look at the actual numbers.
You missed the part where CCP said they are upping the amount of mi erals you mine. Miners are not losing anything and gaining up to 20% if they mine and refine in nul Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1161
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:48:00 -
[1271] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Nice Nullsec lies. Miners already got far higher profits in Null Sec after the last round of mineral changes. Which made sure no matter what ore prices did that Null Sec ores would be worth more than High Sec ores. Not that this was a bad thing.
But this latest change goes too far. It's good that skill now matters. It's good that POS arrays are now relevant. But it is bad that Null Sec is best at everything. That leads to a theme park where high sec is just a starting zone, and to go anywhere you have to sign onto an overlord to get allowed into Null (Because that basically is the current setup in Null) Equal refining from stations & outposts would have been fine. 20% extra is not fine. It gives too much advantage to Null. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:55:00 -
[1272] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Nice Nullsec lies. Miners already got far higher profits in Null Sec after the last round of mineral changes. Which made sure no matter what ore prices did that Null Sec ores would be worth more than High Sec ores. Not that this was a bad thing. But this latest change goes too far. It's good that skill now matters. It's good that POS arrays are now relevant. But it is bad that Null Sec is best at everything. That leads to a theme park where high sec is just a starting zone, and to go anywhere you have to sign onto an overlord to get allowed into Null (Because that basically is the current setup in Null) Equal refining from stations & outposts would have been fine. 20% extra is not fine. It gives too much advantage to Null.
Why is it bad that the most risky areas give the best reward?
right now there is nothing to reward a miner. Trit in null is worth the same as high sec and you cant mine any more than in high sec. Come summer it will be worth 20% more than high sec.
how is this not a good thing for miners? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Keltin
MSE-corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:56:00 -
[1273] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Nice Nullsec lies. Miners already got far higher profits in Null Sec after the last round of mineral changes. Which made sure no matter what ore prices did that Null Sec ores would be worth more than High Sec ores. Not that this was a bad thing. But this latest change goes too far. It's good that skill now matters. It's good that POS arrays are now relevant. But it is bad that Null Sec is best at everything. That leads to a theme park where high sec is just a starting zone, and to go anywhere you have to sign onto an overlord to get allowed into Null (Because that basically is the current setup in Null) Equal refining from stations & outposts would have been fine. 20% extra is not fine. It gives too much advantage to Null.
Agreed 1000000000000000%
I'm not signing up for an Alliance, it hasn't happened in my previous 10 years it's not happening now. Deal with it CCP!
baltec1 And for the others, I said I would no longer devote time to industry, I'll go pvp if I need/have to but this overall **** storm to High-Sec Industry is not going to be beneficial to the game. You are right I didn't see a "part where they said they were changing" I am going by what is currently posted. once they make a new devblog I'll change my thoughts but until then I will go by the current "official" information being the blog itself. I do not care what they say in a forum post. Update the blog with the actual numbers. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
13037
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:00:00 -
[1274] - Quote
my momma always told me there will be industrialists who can do it faster and cheaper than me. so I decided not to be an industrialist. President of the-áCommissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Rainfleet Mk III |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1161
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:05:00 -
[1275] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Why is it bad that the most risky areas give the best reward?
right now there is nothing to reward a miner. Trit in null is worth the same as high sec and you cant mine any more than in high sec. Come summer it will be worth 20% more than high sec.
how is this not a good thing for miners?
Because you ALREADY GET THE MOST REWARDS! You can't use that argument on every single thing in the game in isolation. Null gets better PI. Null gets better Ore. Null gets faster manufacturing lines. (Last I looked post outpost buff) Null gets faster research lines. (Last I looked post outpost buff) Null gets better Gas. Null has infinite ore in a single system thanks to industrial anomalies. Null does have higher yield thanks to Rorq boosts being better.
All of this is directly industry related. You don't need better refine rates as well. If you need a boost to Null ore at all, which I'm not convinced, then it should be in the 5% & 10% varieties being more common, not in all ore giving 20% better yield when refined.
Note, I'm not against the changing of outposts base to 50%, or the change so that skills matter & that POS arrays are good for refining. I'm against the 'Null must be best at every single aspect of the game' argument which is being used to justify Null getting better refining when it gives too much advantage to Null Industrialists to be able to simply price high sec utterly out of the game. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:05:00 -
[1276] - Quote
Keltin wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Nice Nullsec lies. Miners already got far higher profits in Null Sec after the last round of mineral changes. Which made sure no matter what ore prices did that Null Sec ores would be worth more than High Sec ores. Not that this was a bad thing. But this latest change goes too far. It's good that skill now matters. It's good that POS arrays are now relevant. But it is bad that Null Sec is best at everything. That leads to a theme park where high sec is just a starting zone, and to go anywhere you have to sign onto an overlord to get allowed into Null (Because that basically is the current setup in Null) Equal refining from stations & outposts would have been fine. 20% extra is not fine. It gives too much advantage to Null. Agreed 1000000000000000% I'm not signing up for an Alliance, it hasn't happened in my previous 10 years it's not happening now. Deal with it CCP! baltec1 And for the others, I said I would no longer devote time to industry, I'll go pvp if I need/have to but this overall **** storm to High-Sec Industry is not going to be beneficial to the game. You are right I didn't see a "part where they said they were changing" I am going by what is currently posted. once they make a new devblog I'll change my thoughts but until then I will go by the current "official" information being the blog itself. I do not care what they say in a forum post. Update the blog with the actual numbers.
Its in the current dev blog. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Raiden MarkIV
The Serenity Initiative Holding Corporation The Serenity Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:07:00 -
[1277] - Quote
So......
Are Minmitar stations going to get some re balancing to bring them inline with the bonuses given to the other stations?
The other stations got massive increases in office/production/research counts a while back where Minmitar a minimal increase because "They could do decent refining".
With this new patch all outposts will be "equal" at 50% refining on egg drop, so there is no reason to even drop a Minmitar station now if you are not planing on upgrading the station. Granted the increase to 60% at l3 upgrade is a nice perk...
But, out of the box **(Post Current Patch Proposal)**
Caldari Research Outpost
Refining: 50% Manufacturing: 5 Booster Manufacturing: 10 Copying: 20 (+10) ME Research: 20 PE Research: 20 Invention: 20 Reverse Engineering: 30 Offices: 18
Amarr Factory Outpost
Refining: 50% Manufacturing: 50 Booster Manufacturing: 20 Copying: 2 ME Research: 2 PE Research: 2 Offices: 16
Gallente Administrative Outpost
Refining: 50% Manufacturing: 10 Booster Manufacturing: 20 Copying: 4 ME Research: 4 PE Research: 4 Invention: 2 Offices: 36
Minmatar Service Outpost
Refining: 50% Manufacturing: 5 Offices: 10
We can see here.... Minmitar Outposts are not getting any love with this new patch.... In fact, they are becoming the worst outpost investment ever.
Why would we even place one of these when a POS can do refining w/o skills at L1 upgrade rates
Don't get me wrong this refining change is good, But there needs to be some re balancing on the Minmitar Outposts now that they are not going to be the Refining kings of nullsec anymore. They are now just marginally better than the rest of the outposts. with massive investment cost (something upwards of 70bil at current market rates) to get there. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
118
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:08:00 -
[1278] - Quote
Keltin wrote:Refine Rates20% not even close the refine value before and after, the after value with perfect refine is 28% of what it was previously. That's an 72% nerf for high-sec mining. Where are people getting this "20%" this "risk vs reward" is not even a factor in this large of a nerf. Look at the actual numbers.
Wow. Forget the devblog, you didn't even read the link you used to try to prove your point.
Look at the batch size. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:14:00 -
[1279] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Why is it bad that the most risky areas give the best reward?
right now there is nothing to reward a miner. Trit in null is worth the same as high sec and you cant mine any more than in high sec. Come summer it will be worth 20% more than high sec.
how is this not a good thing for miners?
Because you ALREADY GET THE MOST REWARDS! You can't use that argument on every single thing in the game in isolation. Null gets better PI. Null gets better Ore. Null gets faster manufacturing lines. (Last I looked post outpost buff) Null gets faster research lines. (Last I looked post outpost buff) Null gets better Gas. Null has infinite ore in a single system thanks to industrial anomalies. Null does have higher yield thanks to Rorq boosts being better. All of this is directly industry related. You don't need better refine rates as well. If you need a boost to Null ore at all, which I'm not convinced, then it should be in the 5% & 10% varieties being more common, not in all ore giving 20% better yield when refined. Note, I'm not against the changing of outposts base to 50%, or the change so that skills matter & that POS arrays are good for refining. I'm against the 'Null must be best at every single aspect of the game' argument which is being used to justify Null getting better refining when it gives too much advantage to Null Industrialists to be able to simply price high sec utterly out of the game.
yes we can use that argument on everything. Any activity should reward people who take greater risks with greater rewards. I do wonder why it is you seem to think you should get the same reward for less risk, effort and cost.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:15:00 -
[1280] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I'm not sure I like changing all instances of Refining to Reprocessing.
It doesn't make sense to reprocess un-processed ore and ice. Yeah, I'd say that anything having to do with raw materials should be Refining, and anything having to do with Scrapmetal Processing should be Reprocessing. Other than that nit (and my reflexive aversion to insta-refining)? These look like an excellent set of changes. Yes, that is one discussion we internally had as well. We tried to find a term that would encompess both reprocessing and refining, but with no avail. The point of merging those two terms however is to make it clear it is the same process and station facility / service ( you can't reprocess both ores and materials at the same time at the moment, and both "reprocess" and "refining" are appearing under the Star Map under the "service" tab).
How about recycling? I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression. |
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1161
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:22:00 -
[1281] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
yes we can use that argument on everything. Any activity should reward people who take greater risks with greater rewards. I do wonder why it is you seem to think you should get the same reward for less risk, effort and cost.
Because I don't get the same reward. I don't get any of the things I listed above. So a Null player ALREADY HAS MORE REWARD! You can't look at a single facet of reward and go 'that reward aspect must be higher' when there are a number of DIFFERENT rewards that apply. Overall the reward should be higher sure, but it should be higher in ways that don't break the sandbox game, and the 20% higher refine in Null has the potential to break the sandbox and make it theme park. And it shouldn't be 20% higher in every aspect, when those aspects multiply together to create a massive cumulative reward.
Some of the aspects can be the same, some can even be lower in Null. As long as the overall reward across an entire play area is higher. And Industry/Mining is already significantly better in Null. Refining was poor, but it's being over corrected now, not simply fixed to the same. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10517
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:30:00 -
[1282] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote:
yes we can use that argument on everything. Any activity should reward people who take greater risks with greater rewards. I do wonder why it is you seem to think you should get the same reward for less risk, effort and cost.
Because I don't get the same reward. I don't get any of the things I listed above. So a Null player ALREADY HAS MORE REWARD! You can't look at a single facet of reward and go 'that reward aspect must be higher' when there are a number of DIFFERENT rewards that apply. Overall the reward should be higher sure, but it should be higher in ways that don't break the sandbox game, and the 20% higher refine in Null has the potential to break the sandbox and make it theme park. And it shouldn't be 20% higher in every aspect, when those aspects multiply together to create a massive cumulative reward. Some of the aspects can be the same, some can even be lower in Null. As long as the overall reward across an entire play area is higher. And Industry/Mining is already significantly better in Null. Refining was poor, but it's being over corrected now, not simply fixed to the same.
How exactly will it break the game and make it a theampark?
also take note, goons are backing CCP with rewarding miners who take risks and you are against it. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division REFORD
115
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:37:00 -
[1283] - Quote
I see many nice improvements, such as compression process and reprocessing UI. But also I see some bad things:
- You are boosting mining while nerfing reprocess output from modules and ships (It's very famous CCP's way of solving problems: we should not fix something, we should break, so other broken stuff would not look like broken). - You nerfing minmatar outpost, so it won't be so juicy as now. Have a question: how will you boost other features of minmatar outpost instead? Or, how will you nerf (make it similar to other) other outposts to make a balance? Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius |
Keltin
MSE-corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:39:00 -
[1284] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Keltin wrote:Refine Rates20% not even close the refine value before and after, the after value with perfect refine is 28% of what it was previously. That's an 72% nerf for high-sec mining. Where are people getting this "20%" this "risk vs reward" is not even a factor in this large of a nerf. Look at the actual numbers. Wow. Forget the devblog, you didn't even read the link you used to try to prove your point. Look at the batch size.
Wow, so hard to say "look at the batch size" in a nice way isn't it?
But yeah, thnx, been up for 72 hours straight, numbers are not being friendly to me at the moment.
Stop the world! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1161
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:45:00 -
[1285] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
How exactly will it break the game and make it a theampark?
Now, tell us why you deserve the same reward as someone who is taking more risks than you, has more costs than you and is putting in more effort than you? also take note, goons are backing CCP with rewarding miners who take risks and you are against it.
And like normal you just trot out the same argument without actually bothering to read a thing I wrote about how you already get more rewards. Also nothing about Null says you are putting in more effort than a high sec player. Or taking more risks even though I'll give you that on average Null is riskier.
Anyway, have fun being a Goon and continuing with your stated SA forum goal of breaking the game, you are well on the way. Hopefully the Devs can actually multiply and work out what their maths actually means to High Sec. Or of course, Dinsdale could actually be correct in his paranoia (If wrong in how he expresses it normally) and they really are just destroying High Sec one aspect at a time till it's just like all the other MMO's out there. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
392
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:50:00 -
[1286] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Hahahaha. What ever you say. Simple math says you are wrong. But its more fun to watch you all whine about how eveil Carebears are breaking the material bank while Goonies can't cut a break.
272% more valuable to mine in NS, yet no one does. Weird thing is you can get Trit just as easily in NS as you can in HS. 2 ventures in Null make more money than 2 in HS.
Easier just to parrot the talking points of the greater goonion though I imagine. |
El 1974
Freedom For Fantasy The Unthinkables
128
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 08:02:00 -
[1287] - Quote
If taking risk was to be rewarded, then lowsec would get the highest refine rates. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
164
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 08:06:00 -
[1288] - Quote
El 1974 wrote:If taking risk was to be rewarded, then lowsec would get the highest refine rates.
Except that null has more risk... |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10518
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 08:06:00 -
[1289] - Quote
Georgiy Giggle wrote:I see many nice improvements, such as compression process and reprocessing UI. But also I see some bad things:
- You are boosting mining while nerfing reprocess output from modules and ships (It's very famous CCP's way of solving problems: we should not fix something, we should break, so other broken stuff would not look like broken). - You nerfing minmatar outpost, so it won't be so juicy as now. Have a question: how will you boost other features of minmatar outpost instead? Or, how will you nerf (make it similar to other) other outposts to make a balance?
Outposts are an entire summer expansion of problems themselves and will most likely get seen when they revamp sov.
the mods and ship reprocessing is honestly a good thing and a welcome buff to miners. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10518
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 08:07:00 -
[1290] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:baltec1 wrote: miners have never been rewarded for leaving high sec. They were infact punished with lower refine rates and higher costs.
Hahahaha. What ever you say. Simple math says you are wrong. But its more fun to watch you all whine about how eveil Carebears are breaking the material bank while Goonies can't cut a break. 272% more valuable to mine in NS, yet no one does. Weird thing is you can get Trit just as easily in NS as you can in HS. 2 ventures in Null make more money than 2 in HS. Easier just to parrot the talking points of the greater goonion though I imagine.
Please post this simple maths. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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