Yeah, I was.
This is just another cut in the "death by a thousand cuts" to high sec.
CCP truly does hate the majority of its subscription base.

Confirming this. You only reprocess the very cheap stuff (<50k ISK items) anyway, you sell the good stuff directly on the market.

In reality this is an extremely small nerf, and with the amount of nullbear whining we've had over the last few months, it could've been a lot worse.

So suck it up, HTFU, adapt or die, etc etc etc.

Not sure how you are doing your math, but this is a huge huge hit.
Have you seen the value of large smart bombs, 1600 mm armour plates, and 100 Mn MwD's, just for a few examples.
They sell at mineral value.
They are worth between 800,000 and 1 million each.

At first I thought they were taking a 27.6% nerf.
Now, after re-reading the dev blog, I realize it is actually a 45% nerf.
That is monstrous.

So yeah, all the propaganda by the null sec cartels was worth it to them.
This is a huge hit to high sec income.

No.

I loot as I kill rats. If I do it well, I can finish looting very shortly after killing everything, or will simply grab everything I can while killing rats, and leave the rest. So I ALWAYS make more looting than not looting.

However, that incentive was just destroyed.

The null cartels move one step closer to their objective of turning high sec into a wasteland.
I wonder what other attacks on high sec we will see in the coming days.

Excellent. When can we expect the Goon departure from high-sec? You have your null sandbox to sh*t all over, so kindly stop f**king around in ours...

Why? He's right for the most partGǪ Name one change in the last year that has been aimed at improving gameplay in high-sec? It certainly wasn't any of the mobile units, because these have actually become gank magnets for mission-runnersGǪ It definitely wasn't high-sec POCOs, because these basically nerfed PI income while lining the pockets of null alliancesGǪ I'm still waiting for an expansion that actually focus on and improves gameplay in high-sec.

All that aside, I dont understand why it was necessary to nerf the reprocessing rates on non-ore/ice.

I don't get that part. Seems inconsistent and superfluous to the other changes.

Ultimately, the null sec cartels are working towards turning high sec into a wasteland. A lot of new players in high sec are going to be critically hurt by this latest attack, and some will quit the game. But the cartels know that some percentage will actually move to null sec to become serfs, and increase the income of the cartel leadership. It does not matter how much it hurts the overall Eve subscription base, their personal incomes will rise. That is why they made these changes.

Yes, Goons are the greatest gift to high-secGǪ

The one part I don't get though, is why nerf non-ore/ice reprocessing. If anything, and as has been indicated by many others, the reprocessed loot portion of ISK income in missioning and even ratting/anomaly running is quite small. Why nerf it further? I dont buy the "this will create a new profession of **** module reprocessors for an even smaller return". Makes no sense.

Null could house a lot more players. Easily. But unless you are in a big alliance, you won't gain good foothold in null. Being in a big alliance = you are cattle to them (not even blaming them, the game system forces this at the moment for efficiency reasons).

There's little tactic to null. Mostly just "BRING MOAR NUMBAHS". If your 100 active player alliance is in the way or could even remotely pose a future risk, you'll just be erased from null. End of story. Whatever happened to CCPs plan to inprove the nullsec experience (in terms of profit/risk ratio) for small groups of people? I never saw development in this area. That was several years ago.

I don't know but it appears to me you guys are fighting for your space in null quite extensively. Or are you telling me you're just doing it out of pity for the poor null space and actually need to run high-sec missions to pay for your expenses in null?

No, no one tries because it has been done and at best lasted a few weeks before being kicked out by the big guys. If it's so worthless, why bother defending your (sometimes large) unused areas?

Root of the problem why no one wants to null. Alliance blob bombs you out as soon as you settle. That's where something has to be done. You have to be able to get your ass in null and stay there without blocking your gameplay 90% of the time by huge fleets near you. This is what CCP wanted to do quite a long time ago already. They never did. Flying around for hours in null fleeing from fights you can't win (you know, the bring more numbers thing) to be able to do half of one anomaly is neither fun nor profitable. I don't have a solution to this problem. I also don't blame you guys for doing what you do (hell, who wouldn't use their power to preserve and reinforce their position). But until something is done about the core problem with null space, me and many other players will stay the hell away.

If hi-sec at some point get so nerfed that you can't do **** in one lifetime, I'd rather stop playing eve than being forced into null space as it is now.

Well, this solves all the issues I pointed out for all the other 99.X% of the players who are interested in null space but dislike the current conditions I mentioned earlier.

GÇó ExplorationGǪ the simplified scanning and scatter container game that nerfed exploration income
GÇó Ore/iceGǪ players have been so happy with these, particularly ice fields
GÇó RebalancingGǪ in favor of PvP
GÇó SoE L4sGǪ so we could all pay more for SoE ships while others get them for cost
GÇó New shipsGǪ like the Nestor? lol
GÇó Warp speedGǪ L4 mission nerf
GÇó Graphics changesGǪ how does this benefit high-sec?
GÇó MaraudersGǪ would you like fries with that? See warp speed changes...

null-sec exists since 2003? You say players were fighting in it just for fun? And there was NEVER any reasons to fight for it at all?

I have done all of the above plus mined in every sec plus have had 118 PI planets including factories planets.

Your (and not just yours) talk is easily proved biased by one simple consideration: WHs are riskier than sov null sec yet NOBODY of your opinion has mentioned they should get better refine than any null sec.

Why? Self interest much?

So everyone should just blitz and not even think about looting/salvaging? Not all of us who run missions are min/maxers looking for the absolute best isk per hour. I don't fly a ridiculously expensive mission ship. I don't have a specially implanted clone for PVE. I do missions as a way to make income, yes but, I also do them as a way to add a little variety to my game play.

By your logic CCP should just remove all the loot/salvage drops from missions. Oh, and remove Marauders as well since they'd serve no real purpose anymore.

Not even close to true. If you think WH dwellers have nothing to risk other than their current ship then you don't understand what living in a hole is like. Your notion is only true for daytrippers.

You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that many of those assets you mentioned are mobile platforms capable of defending your claim with near instant travel for huge fleets.

This change is going to hurt low SP players badly. Since they lack the SP to blitz missions, their main source of income will be from mission loot, and CCP just kicked them in the balls. This is basically a nerf against newbies.

A) Not everyone has enough time in a block to effectively blitz missions.

B) If no one (or even just very, very few people) looted missions, those components from the mission loot and salvage would... become much more rare. That would (via supply and demand) cause their value to rise; especially those modules that are already in demand such as meta 3 and 4 damage controls, most forms of meta 4 EWAR modules, and some other ones.

C) Simultaneously, if everyone blitzed missions all the time, there would be a lot more loyalty point stuff on the market and thus its price would fall.

Sorry, I think you are a tad confused there. This assault is not good for the game, but very good for null sec, again.

Maybe you should read the dev blog before posting then.
I had to reread it to realize it was not a 27.6% nerf to all mission loot, but a 45%-50% nerf.

by increasing minerals gained from reprocessing ices and ores, they will flood the market with oversupply of the end product and therefore damage the price for ice and ore...

Aaah the delicious duplicitous irony of null sec proponents now vociferously claiming that Reprocessing absolutely has to be severely nerfed, because even though they where the ones exploiting its efficiency to the nines with untold amounts of 425s conveniently reprocessed for their pleasure at near 100% efficiency (rather than mining their own belts), now, they no longer need to!

So now, ofc, its ok for Reprocessing to die, and for nobody else to have any use of it, because they no longer need it for exploiting!

Glorious! 7o

is there basically 28 pages of "it's unfair that meta module refining is getting nerfed yet again after being handed the glory that is MTUs"?

"You are meant to join your nearest null sec alliance, biomass your brain but get your precious free SRP ships!"

@Baltec1: I just think the efficency drop is too great. I dont have any numbers to back it up, but the price of junk modules is I think one fairly accurate indicator of what kinds of narrow margins reprocessors are currently working within.

I quite possibly, infact probably, am failing to appreciate some current glaring loophole that absolutely needs to be plugged, but I figured the compression changes and higher efficiency in null already in and of themselves corrected atleast the most glaring ones.

But to me, the additional great reduction on non-ice/ore reprocessing efficiency is understated for what it will result in.
Namely a universal reduction in the aftermarket mineral value of all loot and player reprocessables, even less incenrive to bring junk in, and the narrowing of the profit margin of reprocessing from slim to none.

Furthermore, its change to efficiency in all sectors. There is no sector recourse to incresse the efficiency, so the drop in mineral efficiency from reprocessables, affects everyone involved with them throughout all space and every mission/rat/plex runner (regardless of whether they actuallyneven brought thatnstuff in currently, the potential for it is still lost).

It articifically reduces the mineral value of every single existing reprocessable item in the game.

Mission runners should get more per hour than miners, as mission running is a lot more work than mining.

I agree entirely. Nor do I have any issue with this small loss in potential profits from those activities,because, as we all know, the profit from them is so small (and hence also the margins for reprocessors), and that though people may choose to harvest them for personal use, that is not really ISK/time efficient.

But that is only one symptom of the change.

What little incentive there was to bring back that junk, just got even lower. And the value of that junk just dropped concretely, because so did the mineral yield from them, meaning not only are reprocessors faced with market depleted of junk to reprocess, what little there is, yields less. This is a twofold negative effect on their profit margins which where slim to begin with. This effectively kills the profession as an isk maker, and relegates it to a weird correctional function of reprocessing your own items, at a huge loss compared to your own minerals invested in creating them, to correct for mistakenly producing the wrong stuff.

It still de-values all the reprocessable items in the universe, as a function of reprocessing them. Not because the price of minerals has changed, but because the efficiency of reprocessing them is reduced.

And as less items reprosessed, this invariably leads to inflation, because there is no margin for profit unless some idiot lists items at well below their reprocessible yield, which just now took a nosedive.

Again, the question arrises "why" implement this change, when as you yourself correctly observe, the 425 phenomenon is already corrected by the other two core changes.

Why this one additionally?

But we have already agreed that reprocessable loot, including gun mining, constitute only a tiny % of a mission/rat/plex runners potentialincome, and have established that a sensible person "doing it right" does not even bother with them.

There is an inherent contradiction here.

Either looting is a tiny % of income, as a factor of current reprocessing for mission/rat/plex runners income, and as we agree something a sensible player doing it "right" does not even bother with.

Or that tiny % of income constitutes a significant enough yield in minerals currently that players actually SHOULD be looting and reprocessing because it is infact not tiny at all.

Which is it?

They cant both be true.

I think everyone can agree that a reduction in efficiency is warranted. However I argue the magnitude of the nerf is too great.

As to gun compression, this is already addressed by the compression and higher ore refinement efficiency. Everyone already agreees those 2 changes already in and of themselves retire the 425 trick.

From my reading you raise two points as reasons for the change.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4373731#post4373731

1) Gun Compression: On this point I refer to your eaelier statement:


Here you state that the reprocessing rate is actually superfluous to the gun compression 425 activity, and that the compression changes alone already are sufficient remedy for that to the point where "they wont even miss" the current reprocessing rate.

2) That CCP needs leeway for the future:
I agree entirely. But I disagree on the magnitude of the efficiency reduction. As long as the minerals required for the manufacture of an item outweigh those gained from reprocessing it, that leeway exists.

We all agree that the mineral income % into the market from mission/rat/plex is already tiny. We even go so far as to agree that it is so tiny, thatna sensible efficient player will not even bother with it. This being the consensus, it is not an argument for reducing the the mineral influx of that tiny % even further.

Do you have absolute confidence that the reprocessing efficiency nerf is set at a correct value?

I agree with what should be fixed in your post, as well as that they should be fixed "forever", but is it certain that the nerf has the lowest possible magnitude to ensure that?

Do you however recognise what this change does to the base mineral yield of all reprocessable items in the game, and its repercussions to the margins of the reprocessing profession and skill set? In my perception, it effectively kills it as an isk making activity, amd relegates it to a correctional role for manufacturers who find they for one reason or another need to reprocess their own production in order to reapply it at a loss for a more lucrative production venture.

Do you have some additional sources at hand as to what methodology was used to determine and to set the magnitude of the proposed reprocessing efficiency nerf?

The Dev blog does not elaborate on those, and neither does the associated thread to my reading of it.

I also added a small edit to my previous post regarding the importance of Reprocessing of as a profession to the game that you may have missed or wish to comment on, as the issue is wider than merely affecting the potential income of mission/rat/plex runners, on whom we can all agree the change has only a small effect, but an effect nonetheless.

Never said you were a goon, and you don't need to live in nullsec to be a nullsec apologist. There is no reason for passive income to exist on the level it does (and mining is not passive sorry). Supporting making income while off line and not playing is quite comical.

Please tell me you've tried setting up PI.

for how much of an absolute pain in the arse it is to set up a planet, it better damn well be as passive as it is.

Wormholes don't have cynos.

Nor they have moons to help them nor they have the number of players to man them.

I felt due diligence to remind that things to both ways.

Tipps, he's just going to go on and on till he makes you admit a 5 isk loss is a loss and then he can jump up and down and go "Haha told you so a loss see I was right."

I see.

But the reduction in the mineral value of wreck loot does not constitute a loss to players who reprocess those?

No, they have less intel and no "buffer" systems before their "core" system.

They risk *less absolute ISK* but their degree of risk is superior.

Perhaps.
Particularly on the part of a few hired whitewashers, spindoctors, stonewallers and associated like-farming alts.

All that aside, it is objectively true that these changes nerf certain activities.
No escaping that fact, though individuals may perceive the significance differently.

(Inb4 but but muh benefits!! Dey r plaing wrung!! etc)

Yeah, another one of your lies.
Tell that to the incursion community that I was in that died after the Paladin's web bonus was removed.

That's true to a certain extent but right now bounty money is a big part of the inflation, in my opinion you shouldn't be able to pve without creating content for others, seems fair right? For example if fw was more interesting CCP could put most of the lp store stuff fw-only and introduce mission running in hs while being a wt, if they don't want to go to the warzone let the warzone come to them.
As for null well maybe make blops an even more mobile small gang platform because honestly unless you live in wormholes/null ganking nullbears is a hassle.

But all this would require good design, so it's not happening.

@Baltec1 & Tippia

Im not sure why you think this reproc nerf will make anything better. We still know that blitzing lvl4 is still the most profitable. still not by much but still more profitable.

Iwe argued with you before Tippia, and i remember you advocating how bad "grinding" is... so how are this nerf better, with this nerf, blitzing the few lvl4 missions in absurdum ower and ower, till you cry of boredom, how is this good gameplay ?

When i do Lv4, i actually enjoy comming back in my noctis picking up the loot, and sorting it keeping the meta4 mods and proc the rest.... its not couse its BETTER, but it still is almost as good as blitzing, but way more fun, its atleast alittle bit of break and change, and once in awhile you find some "good" meta 4s...

So lets nerf this game play, so that the more tedious grinding ways, shines in EvE... i say this is backward thinking ! lol

Its not going to enrich anything to be quite honest. It amounts to an arbitrary change that actually is going to reduce the amount of production done in EVE.

No we won't. Most of lowsec and NPC null industry is built on minerals from reprocessing. They will either reduce their own production to match this, or they will buy more minerals off the market. in both cases overall production volume gets kicked in the nuts.

YOU might not be affected, but the net manufacturing market in the game is going to be impacted negatively by this.

I know I know, just move to Sov Null or High Sec and everything will be ok!

Except all minerals and production doesn't stem from mined material. So either we need more people mining, or less people building to keep the status quo. How is this hard to understand?

Not sure what this has to do with anything I said.

Now your argument is back to isk/hr. Which has already been established as irrelevant. If everyone wanted ISK/HR then the market would have an even harder time supporting these changes.

Need more people mining, or less people building that is what happens when you reduce mined mineral capacity by a net 10% and reduce reprocessed mineral capacity by 45%.

There is no math in the world that makes this remain at the current status quo...let alone a net increase.

The 10% net reduction in refined minerals is the average refining amount in New Eden, across HS, LS and NS. The economy of the game is not just restricted to specific security in encompasses everything. There isn't a region in space that experienced a reduction. At best you are pushing refine numbers to what they were in HS, LS and NPC Null, into one place Sov Null where you will at best break even with todays market.

When you take 37% from 100% and only put 8% back that is not net gain, it is a net loss. HS, LS and NPC Null will all refine at a net loss, with Sov Nulls bonus pulling that net loss across all space to 10% instead of the 19% or so it would normally sit at. Unless all refining is done in Sov Null. (highly unlikely).

Less Minerals entering the market.

Reducing minerals from reprocessing by 45% means those people who build on reprocessed minerals now buy from the market.

More mineral demand from the market.

Less Supply + More Demand =/= Maintaining the status quo.

Go ask Mynnna what supply and demand is and how reducing net supply and increasing net demand produces a net reduction in market capacity.

The only benefit to this whole change is Sov Nullsec Mining and Production.

Not that there is anything wrong with it getting some love. But stop pretending that its some great thing for all of EVE, it is a net reduction for all of EVE, to benefit an industry that is nonexistent as is.

(and that is assuming the Sov has the proper starbase in place)

Whatever you need to tell yourself, it was already more profitable to do all these things in NS. If people didn't want to leave before this probably isn't going to encourage them to leave either.

But lets keep playing the imagination game.

I get it though, you want to down play the "Grr Goon" Folks. I think its great Sov Null is getting indy love, but you need to stop telling blatant falsities. This is a net loss in production capacity, and NS is the only one getting an added gain.

Hope you guys got mining lasers ready!

Easy math friend go check the isk m3 prices and punch the numbers up for yourself. Or would you prefer the 192% average isk/m3 mining all the things. Null Sec is better in every way for mining (but not refining in terms of sov null). But w/e recycled arguments are a waste of time. This change results in less overall production capacity for an increase to Sov mining potential.

So wooopdeee doo. Grrr Goons and all that.

The math isn't hard 19% combined reduction across HS, LS, NS, and an added ~20% in Sov NS =/= status quo. Unless of course all refining is done in Sov Null...but of course we know that isn't going to happen.

This of course ignores the unquantifiable 45% reduction to reprocessing which is a blanket nerf across all space and will dip into markets in HS, LS and NS equally. Which equates to a net reduction in materials available for production, meaning more people will have to mine, or less people will have to produce.

All to benefit a nonexistent Sov Null mining industry. But hey im sure you are right, why would people not jump all over 20% more refining yield when they left 192% isk/m3 sitting there all these years.

but most dont do it... couse its so utterly boring !

yes some blitz... id still say more loot, just couse its almost as valuable, and gives alot more variation... people are playing for Fun after all... im curious though... you seem to know alot of this... do you do alot of LV4s, or is in a chat daily where people discuss doing Missions, or ask for help ?... etc... you know, i am , we in CAS are very active, both in high sec and in Null

Well id say your research is theory, and like most theory it might not be right when put in practise, how about you put your theory in practise ;P...

I would say it should work well if you had a selection of lvl IV agents available and could afford to reject any non-blitzable missions. It is a bit less practical if you are wanting to run something like just SOE IVs and you only have the one local agent.

Not sure about "completely" screwed.
It will definitely change game play for some.
CCP must have decided that they can survive on the money coming in from mid and long term players. There is no way that most new players are going to survive these changes plus the ones that have been dealt in the past.
To think of all the time and resources spent on trying to get and hold on to new players - imo, a vast amount of that will have been wasted once these changes come out if not already.

Missioners are probably half of the retention losses in EVE.... I know its the reason I've walked away a time or two.

That whole system needs to be scrapped and replaced with a pure PVP 'fight club/arena' system, similar to a certain other game's 'arena' system..... or something equally radical.

It was never anything like you say.
Jester posted a graph, albeit 3 mission nerfs ago, that shows gun mining provided up to 70% of some minerals.
But you keep on spouting off these idiotic numbers.

Oh, like all those other MMO's that have way more subscribers??

Or other PVP MMO's that are entirely based on arena combat? World of tanks, World of Warplanes, Mech Warrior Online, League of Legends, War Thunder, etc etc etc....


A good Arena system would do nothing but enhance PVP, while also increasing subscriptions!

Seriously, learn to read.

Firstly, even a blitzing mission runner can use the services of the emergent game play loot & salvage corps that operate. Meaning even blitzing mission runners can/will be affected by this change because they will get far lower income.

Secondly as has been posted a number of times with figures, a lot of people who do mission get a reasonable percentage of their actual income from mission loot. Exactly how big a nerf on average this is, only CCP can say, and they are refusing to, which suggests the figures aren't insignificant.

Thirdly, yes, Null sec has needed industrial incentives, but guess what, you just got massive ones in the last year already.
You do not need BETTER refining with perfect skills than highsec has, not when you already have better ores, moon goo, better PI, better POS costs due to POS fuel discounts with Sov, etc. Especially not when you have complained that the 2% difference assuming perfect skills has left Null Sec unable to compete, yet now that it is nearly 20% discount, TEN TIMES THE DIFFERENCE, somehow it's fair, just because it is in Null Sec's favour. I'm on board with the general change to refining making it so perfect skills are needed in high sec, I am on board with POS refining getting a benefit since POS's require upkeep. However an Outpost does in and of itself not require any upkeep. Sov bills are for the whole system not just the outpost, and you gain massive benefits for those sov bills already. You did not need additional benefits beyond equality to high sec for refining.

In the main thread on the reprocessing a single industrialist proved the maths that he could recover that initial capital investment in less than three months SOLO thanks to the advantages it gives. Across an alliance that capital investment is trivial. It also has zero costs per month. Sov bills are for the system, not for the outpost, and it costs you nothing more to have an outpost in the system. Additionally you already get massive benefits for having Sov. And those trillions in ship costs are also all about Sov, not outposts.

Stop trying to pretend like the costs matter. It's either recovered in weeks for an alliance, or covered by the general sov costs that already give you massive benefits.

As for your 3.7% figure, what basis do you derive that on? And even if it is a 'mere' 3.7% loss, that is still a significant loss on the scale we are talking about. If the benefits of the reprocessing scrap metal change out weigh the down sides, that's a different question. But trying to pretend like a significant number people are not taking a nerf is just silly.

Except High Sec does not offer the same as null even if the refine rates are equal.
Null Sec has better ores, better PI, Moon Goo, faster production lines in the stations. Just to list a few of the basic industry advantages they have. If every single aspect of Null Sec is better, Null Sec gets a massive cumulative advantage, which is of course what you are busy lobbying for, but it will break the game in straws on the camels back till it all goes in one sudden break.
Then you will of course blame it all on the high sec scrubs & pubbies for being whiny, rather than admitting to yourselves that you kept demanding & demanding till it was well & truly broken.

Currently Null Sec has a disadvantage refining. Agreed that this is a problem, but swapping the disadvantage is not the solution. Equality in the basic standards of 'living' with advantages for flying in space in the wilds is the answer. Not higher basics and advantages for flying in space.

Go and sit out the front of a mission hub. Watch how many of the mission runners come back from a mission then head out in a noctis. Then join Pro Synergy and see how many mission runners contract their salvage to the contract salvagers. Observe how many mission runners deploy MTUs in missions (they might not salvage anything, which means that the loot being worth less is going to reduce their income more).

Sure, I don't have hard numbers, but I figure somewhere around a third of the mission runners in hubs like Lanngisi, Apanake or the hi sec part of Black Rise are at least looting their missions, if not salvaging them. I'll point out there that about 90% of the value of a mission comes from the battleship wrecks, so if someone in a marauder is only looting & salvaging the battleship wrecks, they're part of this corpus of missioners whose income will be reduced.

I'm not trying to put "weight of numbers behind my opinion". I'm just trying to communicate that there will be a lot of angry mission runners who don't follow the forums who will be getting a nasty surprise when the change hits. CSM will have a better idea than me, since they're privy to details that CCP is willing to share thanks to the NDA. CCP should also have some idea of what portion of the player base click through the announcements on the launcher or at least read the dev blogs.

Null certainly shouldn't be buffed to the point that it's cheaper to produce in null and jump freight product to Jita

LOL. What risks are you taking by manufacturing in an outpost rather than Jita?

the same happens every day in high-sec

just passed Njaria (or how is name of a 0.5 system between Jita and Amarr) and found lots of CONCORD ships on both gates.....

On the other hand i have spent like 6 or more months manufacturing outpost in DroneLand back in 2011. Used 3 outposts to build needed parts. Used 3 systems to do intensive PI. Visiting 6*3*3 planets in 3 systems every day to collect/drop materials, restart factories, etc...
Orca from start
Freighter on parts build stage

And i haven't lost any ship doing this.

The only problem I see is lore-wise: the null alliances are young compared to NPC empires, they simply can't have the same level of infrastructures in a credible way, unless CCP retcon/state some things.

It's irrelevant to you and some other people, but it does not mean it is to everyone.
It's not even about the actual lore, what is asked is for the lore of the game to be coherent and have a minimal depth, other than that it can be whatever CCP want or deems necessary.
That's why if CCP want the rag-tag pirates to have better production capacities than entrenched and old empires they will have to explain it; if the explanation is sound and solid, then why not.

But do highseccers mine very little ?
Asteroids cannot be mined out in EVE, and the roids are strictly tiered per sec rating, which make sense gameplay-wise but is totally unrealistic.
If ores asked for different levels of skill to be refined (veldspar the easiest, mercoxit the hardest) due to decreasing familiarity in refining strangest and strangest ores it would make sense for highsec equipement to be worse than others, because it would be enough to correctly refine local ores, but it's not the case.

Frankly, highseccers/lowseccers/nullseccers/wormholers can have it all if they want, but EVE rules seems to become more and more abstract all in the name of balance, be it perceived or real, and I find it less and less interesting because of that.

I simply don't think playing in a purely mathematical environment is very fun.

Actualy as EVE is run by CCP and they want profit, it makes sence that as most players are high sec carebears they should have better proits from mining /industry then null sec..they have fewer resources per capita

If high sec carebears are forced into a null sec environment they will just leave the game...and then EVE will be dead and it will all be your fault

And more will be bought off the market in order to facilitate current production.

Spin it how ever you want, you can not remove 15% of all minerals in this game, without it impacting production.

Its not about income dipshit. It is the minerals people refine from the **** loot.

God damn.

Maybe you are a robot, maybe not, but I see the point has entirely eluded you.

>>>>You can't remove 45% of 25-30% ~whatever mineral~ without having an impact on the market availability.<<<<<
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the point. If I could draw little arrows pointing to it over and over I would

I don't care if mining produces 50% and Loot 50%. Taking 45% of that 50% leaves a gap. If Mining was as big a to do as you make it out to be, then minerals from loot wouldn't have a place in the game. The fact CCP is nerfing that means they do have an impact in industry vs mining.

Removing that without incentive to mine said ore is going to leave a gap in the availability. Do you understand how supply and demand works? Do you understand what Supply Push and Demand Pull inflation is?

Well of course the game continues. But lets at least call this what it really is. A direct nerf to HS/LS/NS production, so Sov NS can pretend to be a cog in the wheel of Industry which it isn't and will never be.

Essentially anyone who doesn't take part in the Sov game is going to experience a reduction in production capacity and thats all this boils down to.

I think it is quite possible to buff Sov Null production without nerfing all other production at the same time, don't you? Do you honestly think people are going to take all ore out to Sov NS refine it and bring it back? Give me a break.

I have no issue with increasing the rate of Sov NS productivity, I take issue when every other region of space gets negatively impacted in order to facilitate that change.

The majority of the people who play this game don't play in Sov NS, and the majority of people in Sov NS don't play unless they are being pinged to blob a timer.

Mario, give it up.
Baltec and Tippia are professional trolls and propagandists.

They would argue that black is white, if it helps the null sec cartel agenda.

You are just wasting electrons.
This huge nerf to high sec and low sec is not even the last nerf we are going to witness with this June release.
The cartels are just getting started.

Watch for announcements in the coming days about high sec mfg slots.

Probably just repeating myself.

This nerf will affect newbies the most since they lack the SP to blitz, and thus need to salvage & loot for their ISK (from missions and ratting). On the otherhand, the reprocessing buff to null sec benefits the players that need the buff the least (veteran high SP null sec players who already have access to other ISK-printing activities in null sec).

You are a member of Something Awful, are you?

And I dont know where this E1 support you are talking about is, all I have seen from the majority is E1 hate.

Plus, who cares about any of that if they are winning?

Just keep chucking out that 3.7 % crap.
It is actually 37.0%.

You moved the decimal.

I can, and do say , why don't you provide numbers supporting your ridiculous claim of 3.7%.
My number holds as much validity as yours.

In fact, more so, since you and the other liar claim to only blitz missions.
I, on the other hand, have hangars of loot from missions, so I may have just a tad more experience than you in this area.

Not that won't phase you with some huge meandering trail of posts that say nothing.

I won't get sucked into that with you.

Possibly because they don't see it as any kind of assault on mission runners, nor anything that needs to be justified. After all, there's very little to suggest that they'll be massively affected by the change.

You can know everything in the universe, if you don't have the skills already trained it will effect you.

You can know everything in the universe and if you don't enjoy blitzing missions it will effect you.

If you are running mining bots it will positively effect you.

Yes, a change that helps bots, hurts noobs and people who play the game for fun, and will increase PLEX prices thereby effecting everyone.


Yeah, sounds like another CCP **** move to me. Check eve-offline.net for mor info on CCP **** moves.

relevance?

source?

and when you started flying megathrons the game was probably also flooded with drone alloys.

edit: look at robotics, between the start of 2011 and now, it has had peaks and troughs but generally hasn't exhibited an upwards trend that you could associate with inflation.
it's easy to scream "oh noes inflation" when you cite things that have had their supply/demand constantly ****** with the past few years.

You can candy coat it anyway you want, inflation is up and subs are down. Your chart is nice but fails to illustrate the trillions of ISK tied up in things that don't come from production or minerals.

Oh, here we go....because a 48% percent drop in players voting is ridiculous to pawn off on CSM disillusionment exclusively.
If I am wrong, CCP can make me look like a fool, and publish the sub numbers from today and 12 months ago.

But hey, in the meantime, you get your spin doctors all revv'ed up.

Isn't this wrong? NOT blitzing and NOT ignoring loot requires the following;

a- Huge time investment compared to ignoring loot and blitzing
b- Loot-gathering skills (salvager II, tbII, ore industrial skill, salvage drone skill, MARAUDER skill counts also, etc...)
c- more combat&weapon&drone based skills, because you've to clear all possible npcs and yes, this also includes spending 5 minutes to destroy those dam'n headquarters...
d- more ship skills! (a person who ignores loots may not be tempted by spending time in angel bonus room for example)

After you see obvious reasons, I am actually up for more income for regular mission runners and nerfing blitzers and loot ignorers? Hmm?

As I said, the API. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

There is no question that the game is stagnant.

Who said anything about the whole 48% drop being in subs?
But a portion of it is attributable to it.
CCP could prove me wrong in an instant, simply by releasing the numbers....

Still waiting.

Nope it's not dying.

It's being killed by Goons. Especially Goon Devs ingame and Goon ISD"s on the forums.

No big deal, as Eve is becoming more boring everyday. Not bothering to sub 2 of my accounts in honor of this latest Goonie inspired "expansion".

And yeah...I'd rather be a pubbie (WTF that is I don't know and don't care) for the rest of my life then a Goonie for even an hour.

Congratulations CCP for helping the Goons to achieve their original goal....to ruin the game.

I distinctly remember the Captain shooting a man just after said man professed to being unarmed.