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ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates.
All these are rental, nearly 13 regions. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?
this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO. Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will |
Elzbieta Andrzejewski
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes, there is something wrong with it.
Fixing it is the problem.
Best of luck. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
422
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2362
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is how it works everywhere else.
What do you want, the United Federation Of Planets?
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life.
Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates.
All these are rental, nearly 13 regions. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?
this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO. Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will
You would just get multiple worlds filled with renter empires, yay! If you want to get rid of rental empires, give nullsec blocs a reason to use their space themselves. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 15:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:This is how it works everywhere else.
What do you want, the United Federation Of Planets?
Everywhere else? Like? |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2362
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:This is how it works everywhere else.
What do you want, the United Federation Of Planets?
Everywhere else? Like?
Everywhere, except perhaps the UFP.
Name somewhere, its like that there. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:This is how it works everywhere else.
What do you want, the United Federation Of Planets?
Everywhere else? Like? Everywhere, except perhaps the UFP. Name somewhere, its like that there.
Where? Just name them.. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2362
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:
Where? Just name them..
Doncaster.
Beijing.
Alice Springs.
Springfield.
Everywhere. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
|
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
422
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers..
Brave Newbies did it.
And you've heard the stories of how the Brave boys got their start, right?
so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
392
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Invariably either the CFC empire will fall, or EVE will fall.
Whichever comes first, one or the other is an inevitable certainty. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. Brave Newbies did it. And you've heard the stories of how the Brave boys got their start, right? so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
errrmmm they will never ever ever taken regions though will they. is not quite the same calibre is it, and every ohe coaltion that has tried has failed. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
839
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc.
I live in null I am not affliated to any sov holding group and don't rent. Some of the renters have nice space that they don't defend and i lightly populated. great for running sigs or killing their ratters. There are certainly problems but multishard ain't the solution. People aren't sure what is though and we all have options within the current system. I believe the biggest corp in the game has just entered the null scene and has grown from scratch in about a year so someone can clearly still make an impact with hard work Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
839
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. Brave Newbies did it. And you've heard the stories of how the Brave boys got their start, right? so it's not out of the realm of possibility. errrmmm they will never ever ever taken regions though will they. is not quite the same calibre is it, and every ohe coaltion that has tried has failed.
Goons and TEST started the same way and both have or do own regions. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Twenty Five Percent
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bring back Tech |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
422
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. Brave Newbies did it. And you've heard the stories of how the Brave boys got their start, right? so it's not out of the realm of possibility. errrmmm they will never ever ever taken regions though will they. is not quite the same calibre is it, and every ohe coaltion that has tried has failed.
you just asked about being able to spin up a coalition.
And Brave Newbies did just that over the what, last 6 months? Year?
No, they're not big sov holders. yet.
but I have a feeling that if you give them time they will become a big player in sov null. or at least influential. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1034
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Now is the perfect time for HERO to take advance orders on their rental program. Be quick and you can get in on the ground floor. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5160
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.
If you would like all nullsec to be NPC space, then why are you worried about sov space?
There are plenty of options in EVE. If NPC Nullsec is what you want, um... then... uh... go fly there? There's lots of it you know.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1510
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote: this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it?
Well considering CCP has done everything imaginable to make it like this, yes, it's what it's supposed to be about.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4440
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin will be bringing the rental empires to their knees. Just join Darwins Lemmings and send them your isk. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1206
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 17:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Renting will get fixed when either sov gets fixed, or a temporary bandaide if CCP dumps 5 new massive NPC nullsec systems into the game. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4443
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 22:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Those who live in NPC null and those who rent SOV space have very different interests. You could drop 20 new NPC null regions and people would still want to rent. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen Li3 Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 23:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
If you don't like people renting space then form an Alliance, kick out the people who own the space and don't rent it out. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 23:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
I heard; get on with what you want to do in eve, if other people like being someone's *****. So be it. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
261
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 23:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Wait.. wait... you want to take one of the best things about eve and change it?
You want to take the single universe, where everyone plays together, where I don't have to go 'dude come play eve but join the orion server man.. oh your on terra? well delete and come to orion" and make it so I have to go "dude come join orion no alpha centori!" Really? that is your soultion?
I can't believe I am about to say this, but as the single server is pretty much one of the biggest reasons I have played eve for so damn long... GTFO and go back to WoW |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 00:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Just get rid of sov, completely.
Look at w-space: we don't have sov there, yet people still own systems. You use and defend a system -> you own it. Simple as that. If someone comes and throws you out of your system it's usually because they either want to use your space themselves, or because you pi*sed them of in some way - not because they just wanted to put their sticker on some map, which sadly is what most of sov 0.0 looks like today. You can roam safely through most parts of space that those sov alliances "own", pull shiny loot out of their DED and exploration sites, completely unchallenged... as long as you don't dare touching their sticker on the map. If someone in w-space would just even think about touching the anoms in our home system, we would pod them back to k-space immediately. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4475
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 00:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
You know, I've known fellows who would think that if they didn't chase every skirt they could get within voice distance of, they would wake up magically gay the next day, shout "faaabulous" and start decorating the house or something.
I watched them ruin relationships and marriages because...
SOMETHING CONVINCED THEM
... of this thing whereby if they didn't chase every skirt they saw it meant they were not men or "going gay".
(I never saw this false viewpoint applied in Scotland however I imagine it would not go down well there).
What does this have to do with the thread?
Note the part I put in all caps.
Something is convincing people that "nullsec is the thing". So much the thing, that being a renter is somehow a good thing.
Yet, much like chasing skirts and wrecking one's own personal life on some strange notion, those of us who look at nullsec from outside the box and consider the ramifications of.. renting... can't see the magic in it. It looks like work - having to pay that rent and all that - when there are so many other options for ISK.
Funny how the same people who may be renters themselves endlessly complain that highsec has too much ISK in it.
What is it then?
There's just too much propaganda and BS going on. Maybe some nullsec systems are worth it, and others not. Who knows?
But I get the impression that renting is merely a transient (no pun intended) thing whereby people go into renting thinking that:
- it's a huge magical ISK fountain - it's LEET PVP and leaving highsec means you are a leet PVPer and give license to point back at highsec and look down at everybody who is not in nullsec. - it's playing the game the way it should be played: with company.
But how long does the bloom last on the rose? On the outside, those of us who like to trespass and do what we like see this differently: - It's NOT a huge ISK fountain nor guaranteed and then there's rent to pay. - the LEET PVP is gate camping - company in the game means nerd-rage, undue drama, backstabbing and all the other wonderful trappings of a declining civilization that had us staying home on the weekend and playing video games in the first place
So, if you want to put an end to this renting thing, it's more of an educational move.
Why is there such a herd?
For the same reason that every major city has a rush hour twice a day with the same people in it at the same time, day after day, year after year.
So whoever is in control of the information is the culprit. I can think of a large nullsec block that has enough people in it to spread a lot of lies to a lot of other players in the forums and out.
Destroy these lies and renting is reduced. I would be curious to see what the present "turnover" of renters is. I don't imagine that individual players are really gung ho about "keeping their corp out there". I think most of them are in it for themselves and when their status is pressed, it falls apart and they end up back in highsec farming with tengus.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm. The Storm Collective
212
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 01:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Charlie Firpol wrote:ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates.
All these are rental, nearly 13 regions. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?
this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO. Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will You would just get multiple worlds filled with renter empires, yay! If you want to get rid of rental empires, give nullsec blocs a reason to use their space themselves.
Emulate real life. System ownership can be sub-let but at a tax rate to the original owner.
Obviously the real challenge is to give the renters a credible reason to blow the birdy at cfc and make their own empire. Continuous nerfs to incomes all over the game and incentives for local null production/consumption might help.
A static universe mineral count and "asteroid field fatigue" could help there also. Force empires to expand and of course it makes them strongest at their borders and weakest in their guts. Ripe for being subvertes through guerilla warfare. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
vyshnegradsky
Hejaz Industries Executive Outcomes
171
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 01:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers..
Having that many super capitals for that number of characters seems unnecessary. I suppose a few spares never hurt. This one's a bit over the edge guys.
Locked for breaking... well, pretty much all the rules.
- CCP Falcon |
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:If you don't like people renting space then form an Alliance, kick out the people who own the space and don't rent it out. Awesome idea. Let me call 39,000 friends and we'll form an alliance. Because that's how many people CFC have managed to get together.
Being able to create a 39,000 man coalition is fine, but with the current system requiring people to turn up at the time those 39,000 people choose means instant and total failure for anyone forming an alliance and trying to kick people out.
Remove the automated mails that are sent to the leaders of those 39,000 players and people might just be able to take systems. Until then there is no hope for any new emerging alliances. They will just be squashed like bugs. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2686
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively. So what's the problem?
When you take sov, you pay "rent" to CCP, and you have to defend it yourself and all that jazz. Like POCOs, that control is handed over to players. Now instead of paying your rent to CCP, you can pay it to an alliance, and they handle all of the nasty warfare side of it for you. If you don't want to rent from players, you'll need to be big enough to fend off attackers and take sov (like taking a POCO). The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 02:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP made it this way. I was a member of -A- for a short time, and seeing the space in the South (Catch and surroundings) was not really good in them moongoo days, they already rented out space to pay for their sov, SRP and stuff. So it has been around for years already. The drone russians worked this way as well, and i even have the idea the notion of renting out systems is something the space Russians invented.
When CCP nerfed moongoo the coalitions in the better moongoo regions had a financial problem and to fix it they started renting out systems as well. The null sec alliances need isk to run their empires and pay for all their stuff, so if you take the moongoo away, something else must take its place. And that thing is renting.
Pretty sure if you make it easier to run an alliance and hold sov financially we will see the renter empires disappear. No point in maintaining something like that if you can rake in isk in more profitable ways elsewhere. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
331
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Whu-wha-wha-WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Little crybaby! Don't like it? Then like everybody else has already told you, just do something about it! Take their Sov from them. And you already know how to do it. You stated it yourself. Just get yourself a bunch of friends and of course plenty of SuperCaps. Cuz let's face it, in today's EvE, you can't really take large amounts of space without SCs. So just go build yourself a bunch. 'Course to do that you'll need Sov. So just go take some Sov and build your SCs so you can... take some Sov..... erm. Right. There seems to be a problem here..... hmmmm.
But whatev. Fact is, it's YOUR fault. You're just a whiny pubbie scrublord shiitestain yadda yadda yadda (insert more generic insults).
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
497
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Not so many renters in Stain. |
ChickenPox
0x1
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
It wouldn't be too hard for CCP to add a bunch of new solar systems to the map. Been arguing for that for years. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Whu-wha-wha-WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Little crybaby! Don't like it? Then like everybody else has already told you, just do something about it! Take their Sov from them. And you already know how to do it. You stated it yourself. Just get yourself a bunch of friends and of course plenty of SuperCaps. Cuz let's face it, in today's EvE, you can't really take large amounts of space without SCs. So just go build yourself a bunch. 'Course to do that you'll need Sov. So just go take some Sov and build your SCs so you can... take some Sov..... erm. Right. There seems to be a problem here..... hmmmm. But whatev. Fact is, it's YOUR fault. You're just a whiny pubbie scrublord shiitestain yadda yadda yadda (insert more generic insults). So true, don't expect CCP to hold your hand for you! CCP only has two hands and ones holding CFC's ... hand and the others... probably firmly clamped around its corporate balls or something ... those stress balls that they give out in corporations of course.. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3148
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Just get rid of sov, completely.
Look at w-space: we don't have sov there, yet people still own systems. You use and defend a system -> you own it. Simple as that. If someone comes and throws you out of your system it's usually because they either want to use your space themselves, or because you pi*sed them of in some way - not because they just wanted to put their sticker on some map, which sadly is what most of sov 0.0 looks like today. You can roam safely through most parts of space that those sov alliances "own", pull shiny loot out of their DED and exploration sites, completely unchallenged... as long as you don't dare touching their sticker on the map. If someone in w-space would just even think about touching the anoms in our home system, we would pod them back to k-space immediately.
You know what the point of having different areas of space with different mechanics is?
It's so that there is variety.
You know what making nullsec work just like wspace would do?
Eliminate variety.
The current situation is a result of the fact that there is no compelling alternative. There is no reason not to take as much space as you possibly can and in fact doing so is the optimal choice, as there are no mechanics, no incentives, no rewards for choosing to hold a smaller footprint. The wealth and thus of ones empire is directly related to its size, so those who try to (or are forced to) stay small have died out. Create the means to make maintaining a smaller but far more developed area of space competitive and you'll be a long way towards changing it. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith Against ALL Anomalies
226
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 03:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Stop renting and move out of null.
The financial weight of it will break the system. Proof of lying in thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703 |
Hells Merc
mUfFiN fAcToRy The Marmite Collective
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 04:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.
Don't be so negative, eve imitates life in respect of any large alliances or communities of like minded sheep. They will succumb to simple physics in collapsing in on themselves.
You should work off the negativity and go **** with their **** to help the process.
|
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Muestereate
Minions LLC
197
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Renting is best carebearing in EVE. Its a market produced by demand. THe masses want what high sec was supposed to be. Despite cries to fix high low and null, the market has spoken. Within Communism, Capitalism and the free market have won victory. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
853
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.
Sov null is there for control yes. The current state is an interesting patchwork of balance of power, political agreements, diplomacy etc, which is actually the desired outcome for the game designers, and is not really feasible with NPC null.
Renting is the phase that follows the space vacuum caused by the reduction in individual moon value, and thus the desire to extract isk from the space around those moons, instead of having it as buffer space. It is not in itself an entirely static scenario, because the whole time I and other CEOs are out here, we are learning what does and doesn't work economically in null and we are far more likely to be able to create the future backbone of a new alliance with the knowledge we now possess. The CFC itself has many potential fracture lines, just as there is an obvious potential fracture line in the N3 / PL coalition.
Raising sov bills will increase desire to rent to offset bills until you get to the point where sov bills make it uneconomic to either hold or rent space, at which point the population will collapse, and it will make sense for nobody to hold any space, and the entire meta game around sov null collapses.
Like or not, what happens in lowsec and in NPC nullsec is just not as interesting, nor as inspiring to outsiders who don't play as sov null is.
|
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4449
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively. Sov null is there for control yes. The current state is an interesting patchwork of balance of power, political agreements, diplomacy etc, which is actually the desired outcome for the game designers, and is not really feasible with NPC null. Renting is the phase that follows the space vacuum caused by the reduction in individual moon value, and thus the desire to extract isk from the space around those moons, instead of having it as buffer space. It is not in itself an entirely static scenario, because the whole time I and other CEOs are out here, we are learning what does and doesn't work economically in null and we are far more likely to be able to create the future backbone of a new alliance with the knowledge we now possess. The CFC itself has many potential fracture lines, just as there is an obvious potential fracture line in the N3 / PL coalition. Raising sov bills will increase desire to rent to offset bills until you get to the point where sov bills make it uneconomic to either hold or rent space, at which point the population will collapse, and it will make sense for nobody to hold any space, and the entire meta game around sov null collapses. Like or not, what happens in lowsec and in NPC nullsec is just not as interesting, nor as inspiring to outsiders who don't play as sov null is.
That just gave me an idea.
See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Thead Enco
Killing is Business Get Off My Lawn
108
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 05:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.
1. Make Friends 2. find your ballz and come take our space 3. or whine about it on a NPC alt while mission running it with the rest of the autistic plebs
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1511
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 06:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
ChickenPox wrote:It wouldn't be too hard for CCP to add a bunch of new solar systems to the map. Been arguing for that for years.
Why? the blob will take those too. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1122
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here?
What exactly is the problem? I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3293
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
dexington wrote:ImYourMom wrote:All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? What exactly is the problem?
That people won't let him have it for free. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1511
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:dexington wrote:ImYourMom wrote:All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? What exactly is the problem? That people won't let him have it for free.
You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Sibyyl
236
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 07:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
EVE is a rental universe. What else would it be, with a monthly subscription fee?
Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
164
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 08:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers..
You mean people put effort into maintaining their control, and it requires the work of many thousands of players with trillions in assets?
Well golly gee, I guess we should try and stop them doing that. |
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flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2110
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 09:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Lothros Andastar wrote:If you don't like people renting space then form an Alliance, kick out the people who own the space and don't rent it out. Awesome idea. Let me call 39,000 friends and we'll form an alliance. Because that's how many people CFC have managed to get together. .
Because the CFC was founded in one day right ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2110
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 09:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:you not being in the kitchen making me a sammich?
OR you being too lazy to put together a coalition to kick the renters out of their space?
Personally, I don't care.
Wspace for life. Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers..
So your complaining people have rental empires and in the same page complain you can't do anything against it because that would require effort to do so.
You do see you just complimented them for achieving such a rental empire right ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2110
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 09:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:dexington wrote:ImYourMom wrote:All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? What exactly is the problem? That people won't let him have it for free. You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard.
There are some really nice npc null regions out there so the question is why does it even matter how much space the big coalitions have if all you are after is to have fun in nullsec without the need to join the blob ?
I never understood the problem of null sov being controlled by major powerblocks as long as there still are different ones to challange each other from time to time . Every game is a numbers game and eve is no different in that , but you do have the option to play in nullsec without the need to join in on the big blobs.
To be honest i enjoyed my stay in syndicate mostly solo or small gangs last time just as much as i enjoyed my stay in fcon space a few months ago joining in on the biggest sov battle ever.
Two totally different sides of nullplay but still both are quite enjoyable .
In eve you are never forced to do anything unlike what people like to claim often , it's a free world and each thing can be enjoyed both smallscale as largescale .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 09:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Sentamon wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:dexington wrote:ImYourMom wrote:All these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? What exactly is the problem? That people won't let him have it for free. You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard. There are some really nice npc null regions out there so the question is why does it even matter how much space the big coalitions have if all you are after is to have fun in nullsec without the need to join the blob ? I never understood the problem of null sov being controlled by major powerblocks as long as there still are different ones to challange each other from time to time . Every game is a numbers game and eve is no different in that , but you do have the option to play in nullsec without the need to join in on the big blobs. To be honest i enjoyed my stay in syndicate mostly solo or small gangs last time just as much as i enjoyed my stay in fcon space a few months ago joining in on the biggest sov battle ever. Two totally different sides of nullplay but still both are quite enjoyable . In eve you are never forced to do anything unlike what people like to claim often , it's a free world and each thing can be enjoyed both smallscale as largescale . Problem is its not being fought over its being given freely by CCP to the major coalitions who barely have to fight for it once they take it. Likely a result of the CSM being given freely by CCP to the major alliances.
CCP has pretty set it up so their m8's win EvE regardless of what anyone else does in game.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2110
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 09:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:flakeys wrote:Sentamon wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:dexington wrote: What exactly is the problem?
That people won't let him have it for free. You've got him all figured out. Cause you know, joining the blob is so complex and hard. There are some really nice npc null regions out there so the question is why does it even matter how much space the big coalitions have if all you are after is to have fun in nullsec without the need to join the blob ? I never understood the problem of null sov being controlled by major powerblocks as long as there still are different ones to challange each other from time to time . Every game is a numbers game and eve is no different in that , but you do have the option to play in nullsec without the need to join in on the big blobs. To be honest i enjoyed my stay in syndicate mostly solo or small gangs last time just as much as i enjoyed my stay in fcon space a few months ago joining in on the biggest sov battle ever. Two totally different sides of nullplay but still both are quite enjoyable . In eve you are never forced to do anything unlike what people like to claim often , it's a free world and each thing can be enjoyed both smallscale as largescale . Problem is its not being fought over its being given freely by CCP to the major coalitions who barely have to fight for it once they take it. Likely a result of the CSM being given freely by CCP to the major alliances. CCP has pretty set it up so their m8's win EvE regardless of what anyone else does in game.
How can you expect me to give a proper reply to it when you sign off with something wich clearly shows how much biased you are in regards to sov nullsec alliances ?
Your saying it is not being fought over , when we just had the Halloween war and in that one of the largest battles in eve ever with massive losses in it .Explain that to me ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 10:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
flakeys wrote: How can you expect me to give a proper reply to it when you sign off with something wich clearly shows how much biased you are in regards to sov nullsec alliances ?
Your saying it is not being fought over , when we just had the Halloween war and in that one of the largest battles in eve ever with massive losses in it .Explain that to me ....
This pretty much says it all. Its not being fought over because there's not really anyone left to fight. There are fights but theyr'e not ongoing wars they're a battle here and a battle there.
The system was designed and setup up with the help of EvE Players who were from sov null.
The system is set up to ensure that anyone that thinks they have a chance at taking sov off the big coalitions must turn up at the big coalitions primary play time and be smashed. There is no other way to take sov. Its an artificial system that ONLY favors the the coalitions. The coalitions don't even have to gather their own intel, they're emailed by the server with the information so no sneaky guerrilla attacks either.
The so called wars are funded by the suckers who pay the coalitions to rent systems they would be able to take themselves had the failed system of timers and pre-arranged battlegrounds not been implemented.
The CSM is set up in the exactly the same way. Its the exact duplicate of sov. If you or I put our hand up when it came to voting day we would be smashed by the big coalitions who dominate the CSM, have done and will do until the system is designed fairly.
Ironically the chair of the CSM is also the same person who worked on the sov mechanics, head of Pandemic Legion, and the CSM is almost exclusively made up of null sec coalitions.
If you think there's no serious nepotism type of thing going on here you're fooling yourself.
Before I go I want to just point out that I am not personally attacking Seleene, I have read their posts since 2003 on the forums and they've always been pretty well spoken and decent. But you cannot have a fair game when the masters and the slaves are mingling to the extent they are. You get T20 type behavior and you also get hidden bias creeping into the system. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Ordak Taelen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 10:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Despite the obvious current power projection issues in EVE, renting is a very cool result of a real sandbox game, and so are large coalitions and intelligently run organisations.
The people who complain about it dont understand that the meta is actually a cool part of the game and add a lot of meaning / drama to the game.
I hope renting stays in this game, but I wouldnt mind if the game mechanics would force coalitions to scale it down a little bit.
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Prince Kobol
1449
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 11:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Wow, so many people who have missed the point.
The issue with Null sec has very little to do with large coalitions but the fact that there are many systems which are simply not worth fighting for.
Example, go to scalding pass on dotlan and you will see that RA owns sov. They do not live there any more but the space is that bad that nobody can be bothered to grind the systems.
You can see this in many other constellations.
When the space is that bad why fight for it? Why spend 10's even 100's of billions of isk fighting for something where you will never recover that isk back.
Whilst the move to by CCP to reduce the ATM of Eve (moongoo) was welcome it also removed a conflict driver and they didn't replace it.
So now for alliances to continue with SRP and paying the bills renting is the best option. Now you will say that they should be targeting each other renters, why should they?
Much like real life politics they make agreements to allow them to continue to fight, members to have fun all without stopping each side create isk.
You don't like this then complain to CCP as they created the walls to the sandbox, not the players |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 11:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Wow, so many people who have missed the point.
The issue with Null sec has very little to do with large coalitions but the fact that there are many systems which are simply not worth fighting for.
Example, go to scalding pass on dotlan and you will see that RA owns sov. They do not live there any more but the space is that bad that nobody can be bothered to grind the systems.
You can see this in many other constellations.
When the space is that bad why fight for it? Why spend 10's even 100's of billions of isk fighting for something where you will never recover that isk back.
Whilst the move to by CCP to reduce the ATM of Eve (moongoo) was welcome it also removed a conflict driver and they didn't replace it.
So now for alliances to continue with SRP and paying the bills renting is the best option. Now you will say that they should be targeting each other renters, why should they?
Much like real life politics they make agreements to allow them to continue to fight, members to have fun all without stopping each side create isk.
You don't like this then complain to CCP as they created the walls to the sandbox, not the players Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.
And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
853
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 11:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.
And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.
No, the way to win Sov is to ensure that 37,000 character alliances have pressing reasons to NOT turn up to contest your timers.
ie
guns. politics. spies. opportunism.
etc. |
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 11:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.
And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.
No, the way to win Sov is to ensure that 37,000 character alliances have pressing reasons to NOT turn up to contest your timers. ie guns. politics. spies. opportunism. etc. That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov.
There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above.
Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Oxide Ammar
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 11:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
I don't know when did people started to rent space but I'm sure it wasn't CCP intention for derailing the game like that, I'm sure they had fluffy ideas of ppl fighting from system to system capturing and losing regions 24/7, that ended right now with couple of big coalitions that they agreed to give the audience a show without touching each other rented space since it's their method of ISK printing these days.
For some reason I think that all buffing changes they are doing to nullsec in every expansion will lead to pull the carpet from under renters with some kind of wako feature at certain point, CCP don't like passive incomes especially if it comes in 9-10 figures like that. So when null alliances start to whine CCP will be replying that we paved the whole road for you to generate income from active ways we introduced recently to you. |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
i've yet to see a convincing argument as to why renting is a problem, much less a problem that needs addressing. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Before you say "oh its not CCP's fault that players band together" well guess what it is CCP's fault. Its also CCP's job to act as an umpire in the game. If the game becomes imbalanced because of game mechanics which it obviously has, then its CCP's responsibility to correct that.
Players do things like create ridiculously over-sized coalitions because CCP has neglected to put in safeguards to prevent that imbalanced behavior.
Ask yourself the following questions.
If you have the means to move freely and quickly around the map does having a 37000 man coalition benefit you? If you have 24 hours to gather your forces against an attack does 37,000 man coalitions benefit you?
If it took a significant amount of time for Razor to travel all the way down to Period Basis from Tenal would a alliance down in Period Basis be likely to be in a coalition with Razor? If furthermore you didn't have the luxury of being emailed by your POS, had dinner, made love to your wife / girlfriend, had a sleep, got up, had breakfast, went to work, came back from work, had dinner, before you had to respond to an attack of the night before, would having an alliance with Razor up in Tenal, who wouldn't normally be able to help you be worthwhile...
So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1124
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible.
You make it sound like it's a bad thing. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
dexington wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing.
apparently playing with other people in an MMO (y'know, a multiplayer game) is bad. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
dexington wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:dexington wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing.
they're free to do something about it. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:dexington wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing. they're free to do something about it. No they're not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Why lie? Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:19:00 -
[70] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:dexington wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing. they're free to do something about it. No they're not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Why lie?
remind me what game mechanic the cfc have access to that no other player does that means that they're immune to the efforts of every other pilot in eve.
please, it seems to have slipped my memory. |
|
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1125
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:dexington wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So yes, CCP is responsible for players forming massive coalitions in EVE. Directly responsible. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Probably not bad for you CFC, I'm sure your laughing all the way to Reykjavik for the regular CSM meeting but for the majority of the playerbase who pay to keep EvE going, and to people who are thinking of joining, its a very bad thing. they're free to do something about it. No they're not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Why lie?
What is stopping them from doing something about it? I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
dexington wrote:
What is stopping them from doing something about it?
Ummm I don't know.
Perhaps the inability to find any free space in that big bluuuuuuue absurdity you call a coalition. Perhaps its an inability to compete financially with that big blueeee absurdity you call a coalition.
Perhaps its an inability to build caps without sov and an inability to get sov without caps. Perhaps its because anyone who tried would have to start small and would have to turn up to fight this.
Perhaps you already know and you're just playing stupid....
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.
linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever.
edit: i mean, all you've done is proven that the cfc has less players than everyone else combined. i really don't get your point. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.
linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever. If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults... Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.
linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever. If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults...
you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet.
a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
854
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov. There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above. Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Brave_Collective
Steps to null.
(1) attractive recruiting schtick. (2) promotion of org by being involved in events (even if its just kicking giants in the kneecaps). (3) objectives to do *right* now to suit the size of the org (this is in fact something I'm awesome at, I can come up with many great campaigns - much of which can be started in highsec). (4) some sort of logistics backbone to the organization that can move it to location when required, and not instantly fold under pressure. (5) a culture of understanding that this is game about spaceships with guns, and a game about the efforts of lots of people. (6) never allow the org to stagnate. (7) accept that a null campaign might not stick the first time.
I'd add (8) don't tie the dead TEST albatross around your neck, but even that hasn't sunk brave just yet.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.
linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever. If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults... you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet. a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it. Keep thinking. It'll come to you one day.
But I'll give you a little hint:
A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house.
Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22.
However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench..
Does that help at all? Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
854
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house.
Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22.
However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench..
Does that help at all?
There are multiple ways in EVE to solve that. don't even need to rent (though renting is also a solution to that).
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov. There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above. Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Brave_CollectiveSteps to null. (1) attractive recruiting schtick. (2) promotion of org by being involved in events (even if its just kicking giants in the kneecaps). (3) objectives to do *right* now to suit the size of the org (this is in fact something I'm awesome at, I can come up with many great campaigns - much of which can be started in highsec). (4) some sort of logistics backbone to the organization that can move it to location when required, and not instantly fold under pressure. (5) a culture of understanding that this is game about spaceships with guns, and a game about the efforts of lots of people. (6) never allow the org to stagnate. (7) accept that a null campaign might not stick the first time. I'd add (8) don't tie the dead TEST albatross around your neck, but even that hasn't sunk brave just yet. This is just ignorance of the situation Tauranon. What you're talking about is trying to create a coalition of people that could stand up to a playerbase of 37,000 people without any access to Sov and therefore no access to capitals, capital and well, no possible way of succeeding. Its utter crap.
If it was possible you'd be doing it instead of paying CFC to rent one system. Don't be a hypocrite. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.
linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever. If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults... you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet. a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it. Keep thinking. It'll come to you one day. But I'll give you a little hint: A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house. Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22. However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench.. Does that help at all?
when the evil trolls make up less than half of the population of the forest, why does dave keep trying to build his house where the trolls live? or why didn't dave just build his house outside of the enchanted forrest?
you know, i could go on about all the other stuff dave could do but it's a long list and i haven't got time for that.
anyway can we get back to the point? which game mechanic stops players doing something about it? |
|
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague
1039
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:I don't know when did people started to rent space but I'm sure it wasn't CCP intention for derailing the game like that, I'm sure they had fluffy ideas of ppl fighting from system to system capturing and losing regions 24/7, that ended right now with couple of big coalitions that they agreed to give the audience a show without touching each other rented space since it's their method of ISK printing these days.
It started when ~elite pvp~ started to /steamroll/ out TheLittleGuy from sov null to build their rental empires.
However in recent times people have seen the light and realise that elite pvp was not guilty, but was just powerlessly guided by the invisible hand of market demand. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1898
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:yeah, you've still yet to demonstrate a single reason why people can't do something about it.
linking a map with some colours on it, and a player count hasn't provided any reason what so ever. If you're incapable of understanding at this point then I think you'd be better off just giving up trying to understand and leave it to the adults... you've not made a point, there's nothing to understand yet. a map, and a player count, do not articulate which mechanic prevents players from doing something about it. Keep thinking. It'll come to you one day. But I'll give you a little hint: A young boy named Dave wanted to move out of his mums basement and make his way in the world, find an not so pretty wench and build a not so pretty house for him and his wench to live in. Unfortunately Dave lived in a enchanted forest full of evil trolls. Everytime Dave tried to build his house, the evil trolls being everywhere would beat Dave up, steal his wench and knock down his house. Dave needed an army of his own but the only way Dave could gather an army was to take over control of a bit of the forest, but the only way Dave could do that was with an army. Dave was in a situation which smart people called a catch 22. However Dave, not understanding what a catch 22 was, continued to wonder why he couldn't take over the forest, or raise his army, so he could build his house and get funky with his ugly wench.. Does that help at all? when the evil trolls make up less than half of the population of the forest, why does dave keep trying to build his house where the trolls live? or why didn't dave just build his house outside of the enchanted forrest? you know, i could go on about all the other stuff dave could do but it's a long list and i haven't got time for that. anyway can we get back to the point? which game mechanic stops players doing something about it? Yeah maybe because the map of Daves forest which I conveniently linked shows the entire forest is full of trolls... ffs Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4538
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 12:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah maybe because the map of Daves forest which I conveniently linked shows the entire forest is full of trolls... ffs
go and look at your map, it quite clearly doesn't show that. there's more than one colour on it, along with the fact that your other link shows that the trolls quite clearly account for less than half the population of the forest.
again, which mechanic is stopping players doing something about trolls inhabiting less than half of the forest? |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
854
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 13:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: This is just ignorance of the situation Tauranon. What you're talking about is trying to create a coalition of people that could stand up to a playerbase of 37,000 people without any access to Sov and therefore no access to capitals, capital and well, no possible way of succeeding. Its utter crap.
If it was possible you'd be doing it instead of paying CFC to rent one system. Don't be a hypocrite.
No - because 6 months ago it was utterly not my goal to stand up to the CFC, and right now it is also utterly not my goal to stand up to the CFC. If I was attempting to *take* null, it is plainly not sensible to do It by taking it from the CFC. That is the last boss in the last dungeon of the biggest expansion ever made.
You personally have a problem with negativity, with fitting blinkers to yourself, and embarrassingly shooting the messenger.
read the post I gave you. It is a concise explanation of how BNI came to be sitting on a system. That can be achieved many ways, but you'll have to face it, it takes alliance construction to achieve it.
|
Johnathan Flubb
Flubb Industrial Group
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 13:22:00 -
[85] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.
And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.
No, the way to win Sov is to ensure that 37,000 character alliances have pressing reasons to NOT turn up to contest your timers. ie guns. politics. spies. opportunism. etc. That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov. There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above. Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing.
There's literally no stopping a coalition of 30k dedicated people through mechanics changes short of saying "you guys can't play together and we'll ban you if you do," and that would completely violate the spirit of the sandbox. If you want to see CFC you're either going to have to play smarter than them or form your own big ass coalition. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
410
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 13:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
Johnathan Flubb wrote:There's literally no way CCP can stop a coalition of 30k dedicated people short of saying "you guys can't play together and we'll ban you if you do," and that would completely violate the spirit of the sandbox. If you want to see CFC you're either going to have to play smarter than them or form your own big ass coalition.
CCP can do it by instituting changes that disrupt CFC's tenuous internal homeostasis.
Ultimately I think null secs one best hope is for internal friction and competition to break the CFC from within. CCP can and should make changes that incentivise or increase that friction and competition. Afterall, thats what EVE is all about. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 13:41:00 -
[87] - Quote
Come back in 5-7 years. Maybe by then they will get a clue.
Although I wouldn't count on it. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 13:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
Johnathan Flubb wrote:
There's literally no way CCP can stop a coalition of 30k dedicated people short of saying "you guys can't play together and we'll ban you if you do," and that would completely violate the spirit of the sandbox. If you want to see CFC you're either going to have to play smarter than them or form your own big ass coalition.
They can implement something like:
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/some-ideas-on-eve/an-influence-sovereignty-system/
|
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
132
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 13:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
30.000 characters coalitions can have all sov null systems for all i care. I've been there and sov wars and politics bored me to death, and i was on the winning side always. I still have some friends there and they keep inviting me to join sov null again but i have to decline politely because i have no time/interest in 6 hours tidi fleets.
Big coalitions influence the game for all the players but i can live with that and keep playing my game everyday.
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1511
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 14:14:00 -
[90] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Come back in 5-7 years. Maybe by then they will get a clue.
Although I wouldn't count on it.
In 5 years there will be a ships with a "Summon Collation" option in a desperate attempt to grab headlines with bigger and badder battles. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
Prince Kobol
1449
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 14:30:00 -
[91] - Quote
Again, this has nothing to do with numbers but having something worth fighting for and unfortunately due to the game mechanics a large portion of null sec is simply not worth the effort for new groups to form and take on other established alliances.
Why should somebody go to the massive amount time, effort and frustration it takes to form and run an alliance to try and take space from an existing alliance based in null.
What we need is more conflict drivers, a new way of capturing Sov that doesn't require bashing down a number of structures with millions of EHP, an over whelming advantage to the defender and something lets both forces disrupt local if only for a brief time.
I personally have no idea what the solution is, however I have read many of a forum post over the years with some great ideas that deserve considerate and discussion with CCP and the CSM. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1133
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 18:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.
Don't like how it is? Can't be bothered to do anything about it yourself?
I heard "Fix it for me, I don't want to actually work to have sov..."
Oh and no comprende "sandbox"?
CCP: "We know what's best for the game, so you can't have any options....." |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 19:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc. I live in null I am not affliated to any sov holding group and don't rent. Some of the renters have nice space that they don't defend and i lightly populated. great for running sigs or killing their ratters. There are certainly problems but multishard ain't the solution. People aren't sure what is though and we all have options within the current system. I believe the biggest corp in the game has just entered the null scene and has grown from scratch in about a year so someone can clearly still make an impact with hard work
Brave is only allowed in null because they aren't interested in challenging the hegimony. They were given awful space that sov factions don't bother with. The null coalitions like them because they generate content(through cheap ship battles) without threatening sov.
|
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 19:18:00 -
[94] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:ImYourMom wrote:Really yeah ill just spin up a 10000 man coaliion that has 10000000 titans and supers.. Brave Newbies did it. And you've heard the stories of how the Brave boys got their start, right? so it's not out of the realm of possibility. errrmmm they will never ever ever taken regions though will they. is not quite the same calibre is it, and every ohe coaltion that has tried has failed. Goons and TEST started the same way and both have or do own regions.
No they didn't. Goons and Test literally had the exact opposite start as Brave. Goons and Test started with an exclusive core userbase (Something Awful/Reddit), which they recruited from. They also went in with the goal of taking sov. By contrast, Brave's core userbase is newbies from all sectors of the game and have had no goal beyond fights. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 19:36:00 -
[95] - Quote
The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Too lazy to do that?
Then shut up.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 20:04:00 -
[96] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Brave is only allowed in null because they aren't interested in challenging the hegimony. They were given awful space that sov factions don't bother with. The null coalitions like them because they generate content(through cheap ship battles) without threatening sov.
Technically, Brave is not in null. Brave is basing out of Sendaya.
You're right about why Brave is tolerated. They feed kills in huge numbers to everyone who comes around. Why wouldn't you keep a bunch of newer players around, many of whom fund their own PvP, to continue smashing their ships into you?
I'm not judging, a lot of the players in Brave think that's fun, and who am I to argue with them, but as wallets run dry, I am sure attitudes will change a bit. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
340
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 22:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:Just get rid of sov, completely.
Look at w-space: we don't have sov there, yet people still own systems. You use and defend a system -> you own it. Simple as that. If someone comes and throws you out of your system it's usually because they either want to use your space themselves, or because you pi*sed them of in some way - not because they just wanted to put their sticker on some map, which sadly is what most of sov 0.0 looks like today. You can roam safely through most parts of space that those sov alliances "own", pull shiny loot out of their DED and exploration sites, completely unchallenged... as long as you don't dare touching their sticker on the map. If someone in w-space would just even think about touching the anoms in our home system, we would pod them back to k-space immediately. You know what the point of having different areas of space with different mechanics is? It's so that there is variety. You know what making nullsec work just like wspace would do? Eliminate variety. The current situation is a result of the fact that there is no compelling alternative. There is no reason not to take as much space as you possibly can and in fact doing so is the optimal choice, as there are no mechanics, no incentives, no rewards for choosing to hold a smaller footprint. The wealth and thus of ones empire is directly related to its size, so those who try to (or are forced to) stay small have died out. Create the means to make maintaining a smaller but far more developed area of space competitive and you'll be a long way towards changing it.
Removing sov would meet all those goals. Being able to use caps and super caps with relative ease the "variety" between null and w-space. Look at how narrow the "variety" is between low and null.
Removing sov would be a great step towards fixing sov. W-space, without mass limitations and with instant intel and clear logistical routes, seems like a no-brainer when the alternative is renter empires and structure grinding. I am not an alt of Chribba. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
340
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 22:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah maybe because the map of Daves forest which I conveniently linked shows the entire forest is full of trolls... ffs go and look at your map, it quite clearly doesn't show that. there's more than one colour on it, along with the fact that your other link shows that the trolls quite clearly account for less than half the population of the forest. again, which mechanic is stopping players doing something about trolls inhabiting less than half of the forest?
I commend your dedication to the whole "what mechanic" bit but at this point you just come across as having a learning disability.
No, not Infinity. You.
There are 15 yearoold boys all over the world who have EVERYTHING figured out, and re shocked that nobody else seems to "get it." Those 15 year old boys are developing the ability to both think in the abstract and, at the same time, simplify things down to absolute (to them) truths.
Most of those boys grow up and, though life experiences, start looking at things in a far more practical and realistic light. Those boys grow up to be men who understand nuance, and see how things really work instead of how they are "supposed" to work or how they "ideally" work. Some of them even look at WHY things work the way they work, and wonder whether the way things actually work is at cross purposes to the stated goal of whatever is being analyzed.
But some of the truly special keep asking the same inane question over and over, competing in their own brand of Socratic Special Olympics because they think they are being both clever and educational.
You're not being clever. You're not leading anyone to the "truth." You've just got a naive and pretty stupid grasp of one aspect of a video game. But god bless, keep on keeping on.
I am not an alt of Chribba. |
Adrie Atticus
Unicorn Love Hurts
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 22:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Lothros Andastar wrote:If you don't like people renting space then form an Alliance, kick out the people who own the space and don't rent it out. Awesome idea. Let me call 39,000 friends and we'll form an alliance. Because that's how many people CFC have managed to get together.
IF CFC really had 39k (or 37k) active combat pilots with the normal 50-60% in capitals, they could take the totality of Provi and Catch in a single reinforcement timer. Just because someone has X members doesn't mean they all will have the same goals, same ideas and actually have that amount of unique characters even online at any given time.
Why hasn't HERO been kicked out of Catch yet, they only have 3 systems which are not ihubbed yet and are surrounded by 8.3k locals (INIT, AA, CVA, APOC, VOLT)? Because they don't have those 8300 players online at all times to just throw around willy nilly. Same goes for CFC.
Besides, russians will turn against mittani soon anyways, it's already in the air. |
Dominic karin
Trojan Legion Fidelas Constans
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.22 23:56:00 -
[100] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively.
Posting in a not-so-stealth fix sov thread. |
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1516
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 00:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge.
If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1899
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 02:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge. If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
336
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 04:11:00 -
[103] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons. So there were no Stront timers during the 1st and 2nd Great Wars? Interesting. Please tell us more....
While you are at it, perhaps you could explain how auto-mails and timers would have helped with Haargoth, the PR hellcamp, and losing all their cynojammers. I despise Goonies as much as any sane rational person, but come on man... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
751
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 04:54:00 -
[104] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Sentamon wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge. If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons.
Your lack of knowledge about how sov mechanics work (and used to work) is breathtaking considering how often you post about them.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3340
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 04:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Sentamon wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge. If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons. Your lack of knowledge about how sov mechanics work (and used to work) is breathtaking considering how often you post about them.
At least he didn't bring up pocos as sov assets again... Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1899
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:36:00 -
[106] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Sentamon wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge. If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons. Your lack of knowledge about how sov mechanics work (and used to work) is breathtaking considering how often you post about them. You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dave Stark
4547
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:39:00 -
[107] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable.
but the forest is full of trolls! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3343
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 06:52:00 -
[108] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable.
Yeah, that's why they argued for years to have Technetium nerfed into the ground... Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
859
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 07:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Sentamon wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge. If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons.
Prior to dominion, Sov was claimed by towers, which had reinforcement timers, and mailed you when they get shot.
As you can imagine, removing BoB (or for the most part BoBs renters/serfs that they used for meat shielding) from a system with 50 moons was more painful than the current system. But we've explained why hitpoint spamming (which towers is) was bad to you already.
|
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1134
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 07:52:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Sentamon wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:The obvious answer:
Do unto the Goons as they did unto BoB.
'Tis a matter of time before one or more Awoxers bust it up from within. Or until one faction or another becomes disenchanted with the lemmingness of it all and lashes out.
Folks moan about somebody else winning. I say, get over it. You want to change things? Observe what they are doing. Analyze it. Find the weaknesses (there always are some). Exploit them.
Assuming it's remotely possible, I'm pretty sure people unhappy with a system that forces two sides at best aren't interested in going through the effort of replacing Goons just to have exactly the same system in place with someone else in charge. If you recalled the Goons started out detesting BoB, and what they stood for. Funny how quickly things change. And BoB wasn't propped up by auto-mails and timers. Can you imagine how much whining would have occurred if Goons had to wait 24hrs each time they wanted to attack BoB so BoB could get as many players as possible to wipe the floor with the Goons. Prior to dominion, Sov was claimed by towers, which had reinforcement timers, and mailed you when they get shot. As you can imagine, removing BoB (or for the most part BoBs renters/serfs that they used for meat shielding) from a system with 50 moons was more painful than the current system. But we've explained why hitpoint spamming (which towers is) was bad to you already.
What they should have done is dropped the idea of system sov altogether. Constellation level Sov, with the ability to attack the central hub, or give the alternative to coordinate attacks on multiple systems in the constellation.
Grinding system by system is a form of self-abuse that only a true basement dweller could love.
CCP: "We know what's best for the game, so you can't have any options....." |
|
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1382
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 08:21:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable.
Yeah, that's why they argued for years to have Technetium nerfed into the ground... looking at drone assistance "fix" (and how fast it was "fixed") i'm not sure they REALLY did tho.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3343
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 08:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable.
Yeah, that's why they argued for years to have Technetium nerfed into the ground... looking at drone assistance "fix" (and how fast it was "fixed") i'm not sure they REALLY did tho....
Technetium, notably, wasn't crashing the servers. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
712
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 09:40:00 -
[113] - Quote
it is just one phase on evolving sandbox.
What comes next? is the question. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1899
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable. but the forest is full of trolls! Indeed.
Bad Messenger wrote:it is just one phase on evolving sandbox.
What comes next? is the question. When there's only one way to take and keep sov, timers, turning up at x time... that's called themepark. Its the only ride in town. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
498
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 11:35:00 -
[115] - Quote
SOV fights get free publicity of the "Biggest Space Battle in History" type and a rush of new subscribers.
This presumably is seen as a good thing. |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
Rental Market is a product of Weak Alliances who would rather pay than fight. Its about as simple as that.
Not saying its good or bad, but it's really a reflection of the players themselves.
For some people its a cost of doing business. For others who don't participate, pride is probably a big factor. I think at the end of the day it comes down to many factors why the rental market is thriving so much.
Personally I find it fascinating how this game mirrors real life economics.
But to answer the OP's specific question. No its not getting out of hand. Anything can change in this game. The problem is their is only so many people who have the time, money and will to make that change. I think you will find that even if you broke the Rental Market that eventually it would probably return. There will always be people who are willing to pay rather than fight. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
712
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:38:00 -
[117] - Quote
Freakdevil wrote:Rental Market is a product of Weak Alliances who would rather pay than fight. Its about as simple as that.
Not saying its good or bad, but it's really a reflection of the players themselves.
For some people its a cost of doing business. For others who don't participate, pride is probably a big factor. I think at the end of the day it comes down to many factors why the rental market is thriving so much.
Personally I find it fascinating how this game mirrors real life economics.
But to answer the OP's specific question. No its not getting out of hand. Anything can change in this game. The problem is their is only so many people who have the time, money and will to make that change. I think you will find that even if you broke the Rental Market that eventually it would probably return. There will always be people who are willing to pay rather than fight.
It is easier to rent sov because CCP favors big fights and and makes numbers count more than player skill.
I understand that CCP is not willing to change mechanics because couple big alliances are better customers than random people.
|
Prince Kobol
1452
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:45:00 -
[118] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable.
Yeah, that's why they argued for years to have Technetium nerfed into the ground...
Unfortunately whilst I supported the welcome nerf to tech, (although it was years too late) it was a conflict driver which has not been replaced. |
Prince Kobol
1452
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 12:47:00 -
[119] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable. but the forest is full of trolls! Indeed. Bad Messenger wrote:it is just one phase on evolving sandbox.
What comes next? is the question. When there's only one way to take and keep sov, timers, turning up at x time... that's called themepark. Its the only ride in town.
As opposed to infiltrating the the corp which owns those structures, taking control and leaving the alliance or maybe bribing somebody who is that corp to leave and switch sides?
Yes there is only one way to take sov..
Once again you show how little you know of Sov Mechanics and how little imagination you have. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:20:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable.
Yeah, that's why they argued for years to have Technetium nerfed into the ground...
lol. How do you stop anyone else attacking you or even competing? Remove what they will attack you for!. Goons didnt do that for the good of the game they did that to preserve themselves. They have amassed such a fortune and assets that the best way was to stop others doing the same and competing. Quite a clever strategy really. Dont ever thing goons do anything for anyone else expect themselves. |
|
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:22:00 -
[121] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:SOV fights get free publicity of the "Biggest Space Battle in History" type and a rush of new subscribers.
This presumably is seen as a good thing.
Errr yeah and then they say how bad things are and they leave.
|
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:29:00 -
[122] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:ImYourMom wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Northern_Associates. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Greater_Western_Co-Prosperity_Spherehttp://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Darkness._CitizensAll these are rental, nearly 17 regions and god knows how many systems abut 600+. and thats not all of them. So is it just me seeing something fundamentally wrong here? this is why we need multiple worlds jus tlike every other MMO or make some fundamental changes that stop this . Becuase alliances like this just control everything, and always will, and most of all this surely isnt what eve was supposed to be about was it? personally i would like all nullsec to be npc or sov costs need to go up massively. Don't like how it is? Can't be bothered to do anything about it yourself? I heard "Fix it for me, I don't want to actually work to have sov..." Oh and no comprende "sandbox"?
this isnt rreally helpful is it? Why do people keep coming back with this silly comment.
Most eve players in new coalitions and alliances are just the same people in old coaltiions. Also can you tell me where suddenly where someone can get 500 supers and 300 titans from please? Magic? I know ill just make it out of thin air shall we? You know it takes many years to do that right? You know that the best pvp alliances in eve just tried and lost right? PL/NC./N3? You know those guys that have elite players and hundreds of titans and supers. You know they just lost right? SO WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK CREATING SOMETHING NEW OR TRYING IT OURSELVES IS GOING TO BE BETTER?
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Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:36:00 -
[123] - Quote
You're wasting your time on them , IZ.
Though I'd say that mails that you mentioned here are the least of a problem here.
Utter anti-sandbox ******** ideas like:
- many ways to almost instantly teleport anywhere - reinforce timers going into days long values (inc. dual phases for outposts and ihubs) - structures having stupid amount of defenses available (hp, shield, regen, and so on) - the whole sov mechanics being some drunken-insane dreamt out nonsense from a perspective of a sandbox game
Everything is de-facto indestructible and fought always at prescribed hour with defenders dictating rules at close to 0 effort. This is essentially [random mmo] battleground zerg vs zerg at hour X.
It's not that people wouldn't want to move and bite back. It's that it's utterely pointless - no matter how well prepared, secret and cunning some smaller group of players would be. Starting with "concept" of taking a pos which can go into 40ish hours of reinforce bullshit and ending on dual-mutliday-reinforce bullshit ihubs and outposts.
TBH, if EvE's development started a few years later, there's high chance that assinine idea like "reinforce timer" would be put on anything battleship and larger.
The worst thing is that this "concept" has been repeated for so many years it's taken for granted. People literally feel they are automagically entitled to be able to always defend something and preferable not be able to lose anything.
Instead of thinking about mechanics that would support proper sandbox - e.g. POS module that creates large pod-like mechanics taking valuables to destined station or bookmark during emergency (e.g. 50% structure left).
Sadly, CCP doesn't give a damn about making any part of nullsec lose-able for current holders. So any discussion or thread about it is essentially pointless. |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
194
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:49:00 -
[124] - Quote
The question is: what is so bad in renting? Without renting, those systems stay empty. With renting they are at least used. What do you care about the arrangments that allow the residents to survive? Why is it a big deal? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Oxide Ammar
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:57:00 -
[125] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:The question is: what is so bad in renting? Without renting, those systems stay empty. With renting they are at least used. What do you care about the arrangments that allow the residents to survive? Why is it a big deal?
Passive income in 10 figures while you are sitting afk for next CTA is bad thing. |
Dave Stark
4548
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 13:58:00 -
[126] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:arabella blood wrote:The question is: what is so bad in renting? Without renting, those systems stay empty. With renting they are at least used. What do you care about the arrangments that allow the residents to survive? Why is it a big deal? Passive income in 10 figures while you are sitting afk for next CTA is bad thing.
so don't join **** tier alliances that have CTAs, and don't be afk. not difficult. |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
194
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 14:23:00 -
[127] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:arabella blood wrote:The question is: what is so bad in renting? Without renting, those systems stay empty. With renting they are at least used. What do you care about the arrangments that allow the residents to survive? Why is it a big deal? Passive income in 10 figures while you are sitting afk for next CTA is bad thing.
U mad because someone reacher than you? Kodus to them i say. I dont find anything bad in that. And it sure beats empty systems. You want them empty? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1906
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 14:39:00 -
[128] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:You're inability to consider the health of the game and your denial of the broken system which allows you to keep sov without effort is laughable. but the forest is full of trolls! Indeed. Bad Messenger wrote:it is just one phase on evolving sandbox.
What comes next? is the question. When there's only one way to take and keep sov, timers, turning up at x time... that's called themepark. Its the only ride in town. As opposed to infiltrating the the corp which owns those structures, taking control and leaving the alliance or maybe bribing somebody who is that corp to leave and switch sides? Yes there is only one way to take sov.. Once again you show how little you know of Sov Mechanics and how little imagination you have. LMAO. So its not sandbox because there's another aweful mechanic that lets a single director disband the work of thousands of players who may have spent hundreds of thousands of man hours working for that particular thing. One bought account or in real life money bribe away from a disband is a feature huh.
You really think this terrible unfixed mechanic is an alternative to the themepark sov war bs :)
That's hilarious. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3131
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 16:25:00 -
[129] - Quote
The solution is to just stop renting. It's not like these alliances can police all this space anyway... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
CERA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 17:34:00 -
[130] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Tauranon wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Stop calling it a sandbox when its obviously not given there is only one way to win and lose sov. One way. Not two, not three. ONE themepark way and that's to turn up at x time to face up to 37,000 player coaltions.
And that was as I already showed, created by an EvE PLAYER, turned dev, turn back to EvE player.
No, the way to win Sov is to ensure that 37,000 character alliances have pressing reasons to NOT turn up to contest your timers. ie guns. politics. spies. opportunism. etc. That's horsecrap. 37,000 people is more than the populations of the smallest 30 countries in the world. There is literally nothing you can do as a normal EVE player, corporation or alliance against that many people but to pay to rent, try join the coalition or go to npc space and give up on the major element of the game which is sov. There are more people in CFC than active servicemen in my countries defence force. That's the reason there is one huge blue blur in the map I posted above. Look at how rediculous this is - whats CCP's plan - nothing. Eh. Fallacious argument.
|
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RRNL
Silver Snake Enterprise
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 17:44:00 -
[131] - Quote
The Technetium mistke lead to the power increase of just a hand full of allainces, now its broken due to that. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5127
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 17:50:00 -
[132] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: LMAO. So its not sandbox because there's another aweful mechanic that lets a single director disband the work of thousands of players who may have spent hundreds of thousands of man hours working for that particular thing. One bought account or in real life money bribe away from a disband is a feature huh.
You really think this terrible unfixed mechanic is an alternative to the themepark sov war bs :)
That's hilarious.
What's really hilarious is you looking down on one guy being able to disband an alliance when you constantly talked about how one guy (YOU) should have been able to destroy sov structures if you wanted to (despite the thousands of man hour people had to put in to take sov so they could plant thos structures in the 1st place).
You problem as usual is that you can't see the big picture and don't understand that the world does not just exist for you. You are a solo player who plays in the least active timezone, SOV null (like high end wormhole space) is group space. People like you have high sec, low sec, low end wormholes and npc null (with it's npc stations and resources that cannot be permanently denied to any player, unlike sov null) to play around in, yet that's not enough, you must also have SOV null in your pocket too.
In other words, you aren't supposed to be able to affect the coaltions in a major way unless you recruit your own coaltion (or are a brilliant spy). You'd understand this is your perspective weren't so narrow and self serving. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1517
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
RRNL wrote:The Technetium mistke lead to the power increase of just a hand full of allainces, now its broken due to that.
The tech change wasn't meant to fix the root problems, it was designed to give the established powers something to do. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
873
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:27:00 -
[134] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:RRNL wrote:The Technetium mistke lead to the power increase of just a hand full of allainces, now its broken due to that. The tech change wasn't meant to fix the root problems, it was designed to give the established powers something to do.
The tech bungle started as a method of conflict driving.....except the players outsmarted CCP (like always) and basically locked everyone else out.
Renting isn't new, that was how the southern alliances (with little to no tech) got by for years and years. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
343
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 21:53:00 -
[135] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:What's really hilarious is you looking down on one guy being able to disband an alliance when you constantly talked about how one guy (YOU) should have been able to destroy sov structures if you wanted to (despite the thousands of man hour people had to put in to take sov so they could plant thos structures in the 1st place). You are being unfair. He doesn't want to destroy sov structures solo. That would be silly. He wants to be able to destroy thousands of man-hours of work with a small corp of say 20-30 guys. Geez! Total difference....
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Red Teufel
Conflagrated Authority
357
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 23:12:00 -
[136] - Quote
The main problem with SoV is that there is no insentive for people who do not live there to go there to make isk. You can do exploration but everyone is in a cloaky ship. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
79
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:23:00 -
[137] - Quote
I think the point which a lot of people are missing, is that it should be easier for a small upcoming alliance to be able to claim at least some small undefended part of sov nullsec.
Just like in real life, if you spread your forces too thinly, there is some strategic disadvantage to that. Current eve mechanics mean that there is no such disadvantage in spreading themselves over the whole of sov null sec, hence the blue doughnut. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1725
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 00:29:00 -
[138] - Quote
Fix bottom up income, sov, and PVE to solve this problem.
E: And nerf highsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1519
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 01:18:00 -
[139] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
E: And nerf highsec.
Broken record has spoken. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Baron Chauman
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 02:51:00 -
[140] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:The main problem with SoV is that there is no insentive for people who do not live there to go there to make isk. You can do exploration but everyone is in a cloaky ship.
Tell that to the two guys who've been ratting in our sov for months. They seem happy with it, since they keep coming back even if we shoot them sometimes. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1728
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 03:25:00 -
[141] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:La Nariz wrote:
E: And nerf highsec.
Broken record has spoken.
Go back to whining in the refining thread :smug: This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
510
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 04:42:00 -
[142] - Quote
Why do something yourself, when you can pay someone else to do it for you?
Oh wait, 99% of you are poor...
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Oxide Ammar
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 05:30:00 -
[143] - Quote
If CCP overhauled the SOV, one of the reasons to rework it is to intentionally kill renting. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1909
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:36:00 -
[144] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:If CCP overhauled the SOV, one of the reasons to rework it is to intentionally kill renting. CCP have gone from a decent development team with a decent game to an incompetent development team with a broken game they obviously have no real intention of trying to fix.
They seem content to do nothing, fix nothing, deploy aweful new 'structures' and just suck up money from the playerbase. There is no one listening to what the players want. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 06:52:00 -
[145] - Quote
the mobile depot alone was better for the solo player intent on farming the whole universe than anything since wormholes, t3s and "new" probing system that came with them (ie eves best expansion).
reduction of the value of moongoo (per tower) has lead to a significant increase in the accessibility of nullsec for carebears as it is now more desirable to work buffer lands than it is to keep it as empty buffer.
highsec now has a valid reason for formation of larger highsec entities (control of pocos).
ship balancing has made many more hulls viable.
ie I'd say the devs are running out of tuning opportunities, ie this isn't a strategy that can sustain EVE forever, but it was a very necessary phase.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1388
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:13:00 -
[146] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:The question is: what is so bad in renting? Without renting, those systems stay empty. With renting they are at least used. What do you care about the arrangments that allow the residents to survive? Why is it a big deal? it is not bad by itself However in Eve Online people are supposed to do it other way: by taking it from owners. You just go and take what you want. Or you don't.
Renting makes 0.0 carebears who are not much different from high-sec ones. I know: i have been there as renter. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1909
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 07:27:00 -
[147] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:the mobile depot alone was better for the solo player intent on farming the whole universe than anything since wormholes, t3s and "new" probing system that came with them (ie eves best expansion).
reduction of the value of moongoo (per tower) has lead to a significant increase in the accessibility of nullsec for carebears as it is now more desirable to work buffer lands than it is to keep it as empty buffer.
highsec now has a valid reason for formation of larger highsec entities (control of pocos).
ship balancing has made many more hulls viable.
ie I'd say the devs are running out of tuning opportunities, ie this isn't a strategy that can sustain EVE forever, but it was a very necessary phase.
Mobile depots are okay but they're really just a bandaid to a bigger problem - the complete lack of a realistic player run nullsec. Null sec is basically stuck in the primordial cave man era where anyone out of your tribe gets beaten to death with clubs. Null sec is missing many of the more sophisticated elements that make up an advanced technological society. One of those things is a outsider based economy. Its also the reason there is no market in null.
Highsec poco's were immediately taken over by CFC, a coalition of players with a membership base of close to 40k players. High sec players are casual players, the poco's are not valuable enough for people to fight that many people over. I know, you know and the devs know that high seccers will never form a coalition to take back the pocos so the point you make is fallacious.
Ship balancing has made small ships overpowered to the extent that large ships are obsolete for day to day PvP. That's not balancing that's called imbalancing.
The main and most important things remain untouched. Sovereignty is a mess, cyno's are an epidemic, ganking is out of control, the market is a mess, POS are a mess, drone interface is still untouched... the list is huge and the list has things on there that are pending to be looked at since 2004 , 2005... soon is not good enough.
A "we have a 5 year plan" without details or actually delivering is rubbish and just a load of stalling to suck more money out of the playerbase while doing nothing.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 08:06:00 -
[148] - Quote
Last I looked RVB owned about 250 pocos, and mynnna said goons owned 26 pocos. Remind me how many highsec planets there are.
If you wanted to specialize an organization on the ownership of pocos, there is plenty of room to do so, and if instead of the terrible retail army overspend that gevlon managed, you had 500 bears that wanted those pocos (even though those pocos are valuable but really only symbolic), you could take them. Even if in reality its a complete furphy because if you were actually recruiting 500 bears you could do so by sitting at the CFC pocos and propositioning the users.
I can do PI in my system, because my system is as a happy happenstance of history, next door to the JF terminal that was established after I moved in. If it was 8 jumps to the JF terminal, I'd probably not do it, unless the alliance had a jump bridge that covered the route. Hint hint, PI is convenience game once you get past the easy to move the heads remotely thing.
So if you actually cared about the average "highsec" indy player, and you wanted to stand against the CFC, you could form an organization that made highsec PI more efficient than merely using a goon poco because it happened to be near jita. If you were offering internal corp logistics, you were replicating p2s or p3s or other convenience products from Jita to the systems where you had factory planets, and you contract hauled to jita for customers or even gave out alliance orders to fill that you were skimming for alliance profits, (which people would take if it was easier than hauling to jita themselves), then you could easily sort through dotlan to find candidate systems that can 1-stop shop, and then you can go investigate them for setting up your alliance there.
Believe it or not there are people that love to spacetruck. There are people that love to group up with other indies and scheme to work the market in their favour. there are other people that will run with reasonable alliance contracts even if they know the alliance is skimming a margin on them. (in fact they'll do it forever if the alliance has open books and they know its not just lining director pockets).
CAS proves that by having people that organize PVP in an organization can even get a damn newbie INDY starter corp to take over a system in Syndicate and roam the hell out of the area, ie if the cultures says we fight, then even indy starters do it.
So basically, no I don't agree the CFC has won the war for pocos. The candidate organization that will eventually contest them properly for it may even already exist.
Honestly very tired of the "can't do".
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arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
196
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 08:25:00 -
[149] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:arabella blood wrote:The question is: what is so bad in renting? Without renting, those systems stay empty. With renting they are at least used. What do you care about the arrangments that allow the residents to survive? Why is it a big deal? it is not bad by itself However in Eve Online people are supposed to do it other way: by taking it from owners. You just go and take what you want. Or you don't. Renting makes 0.0 carebears who are not much different from high-sec ones. I know: i have been there as renter.
So only your style of play exist? And i thought it a sandbox :/
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Baron Chauman
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 09:43:00 -
[150] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mobile depots are okay but they're really just a bandaid to a bigger problem - the complete lack of a realistic player run nullsec.
Realistic? As in run by you?
I find the pseudo-fascist empires that rule null with their renter serfs oddly reflective of the real world.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Null sec is basically stuck in the primordial cave man era where anyone out of your tribe gets beaten to death with clubs.
How does this make it different than any other part of eve, to any significant degree? Null requires the forming of larger "tribes" and more sophisticated organisations which I would think is a further step away from cavemen than most of the galaxy.
Having two massive blocs fighting each other instead of 2000 independent tribes is a step forward in evolution, not backwards.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Null sec is missing many of the more sophisticated elements that make up an advanced technological society.
Besides the spaceships? |
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2405
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 09:57:00 -
[151] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Now is the perfect time for HERO to take advance orders on their rental program. Be quick and you can get in on the ground floor.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
Well, BOB turned into GOONS... the cycle cannot be broken... I wonder what kind of malignant cancer Brave Newbies will turn into in the coming years?
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Prince Kobol
1452
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 10:18:00 -
[152] - Quote
I seriously wouldn't bother replying to anything Infinity Ziona says, she is just butt hurt because CCP haven't released a frig with a 10/10/10 slot layout, has the EHP of a Titan, can do a billion DPS, has a gizzilon % bonus to every weapon / EWAR / scanning / hacking mod, a billion m3 cargo hold, can fire whilst cloaked, can jump 1000 ly using only 1 isotope and has a sig radius of 1 so she can solo everything in Eve. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
211
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 10:42:00 -
[153] - Quote
I have no idea what is going on here, I will fully admit in 2008 I rented from Triumvirate so that I could look down on those in high sec pretty much exclusively and that was pretty much the only reason, as I remember someone saying at AT4 that about 25% of players will never leave high sec even once.
Didn't take long to figure out I wasn't fooling anyone and I left never to rent again, it was much easier to make money and much less risky to just stay in high sec. Going to null wasn't even what made me brave, I used to dock up when intel reported gangs within 2 jumps. I still go to null sometimes to make ISK but I won't pay I just use an empty system, W-space is often a great way of getting there and back un-gatecamped. All the benefits of being in the space minus the fee and no one expects me to join the blob so I can blow up and be podded before the grid even loads. As an added bonus of renting you get the privilege of defending the space you pay for unless you bubble a super. It's kinda like renting a house with a questionable roof, plumbing and electrical that could be filled with rats, bandits or trolls at any time and some days may not even be there when you wake up, all located in a war zone and your landlord expects you to defend it to the death as part of the rental agreement.
Been ninja plexing since 2008 when supercap proliferation had yet to take effect and roaming gangs were still common since jump bridging was not.
I've seen some pretty dramatic changes to null sec over the years, I'm sure I'm clueless about most of it and I'm sure it's not done changing yet. But when the next batch of changes comes along I'll be sure not to listen this time either as I pew almost stress free in low some more. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
550
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 11:27:00 -
[154] - Quote
It's spoken a lot that 0.0 is exclusively 200+ man blobs in 1k+ man battles. Which is actually a funny thing, because I've mostly seen those in big battles of big coalition wars - and the day-to-day consists of smaller fleets (30-50 people peak) or gangs (~10 tops). There's also a fair amount of solo - frigates, especially inties are common nowadays. People roam solo in interdictors looking for easy prey. Light ships have a fair chance of success engaging on a gate due to the lack of gate guns (and if a big blob does show up a frigate can usually still leg it).
That's not to say blob fights don't happen - they do, and they attract themittani/en24 coverage. But unless it's a coalition-on-coalition war over something big, they don't happen on a daily basis. (That and a lot of the time "we got blobbed" means "we got our asses kicked by a force that was equal or had one more guy, but it's so embarassing we'll call them a blob. Also they were all from one alliance and had one Goonswarm tag-along, so it was the CFC that came in to help them.")
A sov revamp is on the board according to CSM minutes IIRC - in a game where a small change (removal of rats from exploration sites in Odyssey) can have much bigger consequences (an increase of young players in null trying their luck in ninja'ing sites. T2 salvage price crash. Vastly more affordable T2 rigging, now considered standard on many ships.) it's likely to shake things up. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1911
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 12:35:00 -
[155] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:I seriously wouldn't bother replying to anything Infinity Ziona says, she is just butt hurt because CCP haven't released a frig with a 10/10/10 slot layout, has the EHP of a Titan, can do a billion DPS, has a gizzilon % bonus to every weapon / EWAR / scanning / hacking mod, a billion m3 cargo hold, can fire whilst cloaked, can jump 1000 ly using only 1 isotope and has a sig radius of 1 so she can solo everything in Eve. This is an outright lie. I don't fly frigates. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3352
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 12:43:00 -
[156] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:I seriously wouldn't bother replying to anything Infinity Ziona says, she is just butt hurt because CCP haven't released a frig with a 10/10/10 slot layout, has the EHP of a Titan, can do a billion DPS, has a gizzilon % bonus to every weapon / EWAR / scanning / hacking mod, a billion m3 cargo hold, can fire whilst cloaked, can jump 1000 ly using only 1 isotope and has a sig radius of 1 so she can solo everything in Eve. This is an outright lie. I don't fly frigates.
What about your mythical ISBox'ed stealth bomber fleet?
Or wait, is this another one of those "marauders are not battleships" things? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1912
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 13:06:00 -
[157] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:I seriously wouldn't bother replying to anything Infinity Ziona says, she is just butt hurt because CCP haven't released a frig with a 10/10/10 slot layout, has the EHP of a Titan, can do a billion DPS, has a gizzilon % bonus to every weapon / EWAR / scanning / hacking mod, a billion m3 cargo hold, can fire whilst cloaked, can jump 1000 ly using only 1 isotope and has a sig radius of 1 so she can solo everything in Eve. This is an outright lie. I don't fly frigates. What about your mythical ISBox'ed stealth bomber fleet? Or wait, is this another one of those "marauders are not battleships" things? They're not frigates they're bombers. And they're hardly mythical, come down to the Hub and I'll introduce you to them. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 13:07:00 -
[158] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:I have no idea what is going on here, I will fully admit in 2008 I rented from Triumvirate so that I could look down on those in high sec pretty much exclusively and that was pretty much the only reason, as I remember someone saying at AT4 that about 25% of players will never leave high sec even once.
Didn't take long to figure out I wasn't fooling anyone and I left never to rent again, it was much easier to make money and much less risky to just stay in high sec. Going to null wasn't even what made me brave, I used to dock up when intel reported gangs within 2 jumps. I still go to null sometimes to make ISK but I won't pay I just use an empty system, W-space is often a great way of getting there and back un-gatecamped. All the benefits of being in the space minus the fee and no one expects me to join the blob so I can blow up and be podded before the grid even loads. As an added bonus of renting you get the privilege of defending the space you pay for unless you bubble a super. It's kinda like renting a house with a questionable roof, plumbing and electrical that could be filled with rats, bandits or trolls at any time and some days may not even be there when you wake up, all located in a war zone and your landlord expects you to defend it to the death as part of the rental agreement.
CFC doesn't do local security. It would be horribly unfun if goons were securing us to the extent that we got no 1v1s or small gang fights, and would also lead to a lot of friction between renters and bored security.
However when invaded (different from local security) CFC strategy as recommended to us by the landlord was not to entertain EMP and TEST and not to encourage them by feeding them kills. I have 250m of fighter bombers I cleaned up (hours later) from the CFC chasing EMP and TEST off an ihub, and they did recover the system that TEST took, and that combo was ultimately unable to take any PBLRD sov at all.
We were not even requested to defend ihubs, probably on the basis that renter recruiting practices are generally insecure.
ie if someone does take Vale, they'd obviously kill all my stuff that I didn't evac, but I'm aware of that risk, and I'd expect that the CFC will come for the ihub timers (bearing in mind they defend economically too, so they may make strategic decisions about individual timers instead of suiciding undersized groupings).
afaik BoB was in the business of renting to Vassal alliances, and none of the individual entities in PBLRD are really that kind of a size, so the relationship has to be rather different. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3353
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 13:11:00 -
[159] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:I seriously wouldn't bother replying to anything Infinity Ziona says, she is just butt hurt because CCP haven't released a frig with a 10/10/10 slot layout, has the EHP of a Titan, can do a billion DPS, has a gizzilon % bonus to every weapon / EWAR / scanning / hacking mod, a billion m3 cargo hold, can fire whilst cloaked, can jump 1000 ly using only 1 isotope and has a sig radius of 1 so she can solo everything in Eve. This is an outright lie. I don't fly frigates. What about your mythical ISBox'ed stealth bomber fleet? Or wait, is this another one of those "marauders are not battleships" things? They're not frigates they're bombers. And they're hardly mythical, come down to the Hub and I'll introduce you to them.
Stealth bombers are frigates. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1022
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 13:34:00 -
[160] - Quote
A topic like this belongs in Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions. But as the OP is in an NPC corporation and as such is not allowed to post there, this thread can not be moved. So it gets locked instead.
The rules: 22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
23. Posting with alternate characters is prohibited in some forum channels.
Some channels such as Corporations Alliances and Organization Discussions do not allow users to post with alternate characters. CCP defines alternate characters as character that do not display the corporation they belong to, who are members of NPC corporations, or who are members of small corporations specifically created for forum posting purposes. Posts by characters filling these criteria will be removed.
I want to add that if you have a serious and well worded proposal for a change in game mechanics, feel free to post it in the Features & Ideas Discussion part of the forum. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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