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Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3394
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Posted - 2014.03.27 20:45:00 -
[121] - Quote
True enough. Bargaining chips don't come much weightier than Home. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3399
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Posted - 2014.03.27 21:57:00 -
[122] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:True enough. Bargaining chips don't come much weightier than Home.
And yet they use it as a goad instead of like honey! |
Gregory Na'Dare
The Knights of Polaris
6
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:10:00 -
[123] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote:There can be no solution that ends in peace that does not guarantee the rights of Federation citizens on Luminaire VII. We prefer to call it Caldari Prime or Home. You can dress it up like an unimportant planetoid, if you like, but it just makes you look ignorant. Ignorant? That's what its called. If you insist on calling it something it hasn't been in over 200 years that's your problem.
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Gregory Na'Dare
The Knights of Polaris
6
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:13:00 -
[124] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Noden Vorpalstar wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote:*pseudopolitical grandstanding* Regardless. His point is clear, Mr. Tuulinen, The Federation citizens living on the planet should be guaranteed their rights for they have just as much claim to "Home" as do Caldari. *more worthless grandstanding* You both seem to be under the impression that Ishukone is incapable of getting what we want without breaking your laws. You are capable of getting you what we allow you to have on Luminaire VII.
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Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3102
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:20:00 -
[125] - Quote
I keep forgetting that nothing any of us say on the IGS has any bearing or impact on what will actually happen.
Thank goodness for that! Or not.
I guess it depends on what really comes to pass.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3399
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:37:00 -
[126] - Quote
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote:There can be no solution that ends in peace that does not guarantee the rights of Federation citizens on Luminaire VII. We prefer to call it Caldari Prime or Home. You can dress it up like an unimportant planetoid, if you like, but it just makes you look ignorant. Ignorant? That's what its called. If you insist on calling it something it hasn't been in over 200 years that's your problem.
It hasn't been called Luminaire VII, even by the Federation, since your astronomers discovered it was inhabited. It was never called that by us - and since we own most of the damn thing now... |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3399
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 22:38:00 -
[127] - Quote
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:Noden Vorpalstar wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote:*pseudopolitical grandstanding* Regardless. His point is clear, Mr. Tuulinen, The Federation citizens living on the planet should be guaranteed their rights for they have just as much claim to "Home" as do Caldari. *more worthless grandstanding* You both seem to be under the impression that Ishukone is incapable of getting what we want without breaking your laws. You are capable of getting you what we allow you to have on Luminaire VII.
How nice for everyone that you're mysteriously feeling generous then, I suppose? |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3395
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:54:00 -
[128] - Quote
Speaking of goading...
Callous arrogance like this Na'Dare displays isn't going to be dispelled by reasonable arguments, nor by accurate sarcasm. Save it for the people whose opinions matter and can be changed. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
255
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:59:00 -
[129] - Quote
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:Noden Vorpalstar wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote:*pseudopolitical grandstanding* Regardless. His point is clear, Mr. Tuulinen, The Federation citizens living on the planet should be guaranteed their rights for they have just as much claim to "Home" as do Caldari. *more worthless grandstanding* You both seem to be under the impression that Ishukone is incapable of getting what we want without breaking your laws. You are capable of getting you what we allow you to have on Luminaire VII. Of getting you what we allow you to have?... Never mind, I think the translation goofed. To put it more in perspective, your government sees what's far beyond this sort of limited thinking. Endless, costly warfare that the State is mentally equipped to endure as long as necessary. Ultimately, allowing the conflict to drag on will take a toll, if it hasn't already, far greater in both lives and resources than the world is worth. It's cheaper, easier, and faster to settle and give it up than it is to keep going, not to mention easier on the polls, come election day. All factors that compel a democratic government to set aside hubris and go to the bargaining table. Odd to say this, but thank the Maker for popular votes that marginalize the self-important declarations of the individually arrogant. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4447
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Posted - 2014.03.27 23:40:00 -
[130] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Callous arrogance like this Na'Dare displays isn't going to be dispelled by reasonable arguments, nor by accurate sarcasm. Save it for the people whose opinions matter and can be changed. So we just treat him as a Gallente version of you-know-who and leave it at that, right? Mane 614
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James Syagrius
Fire In The NIght
855
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Posted - 2014.03.28 00:19:00 -
[131] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:James, we only control one side of the terms - the Federation controls the other side. I'm constantly amazed that you don't recognise this as your chance to put the State over a barrel in terms of negotiation. Want everything in Placid taken off the table? No problem. Want trade agreements? No problem. You could certainly arrange excellent terms for those citizens of yours... But see Pieter that is the point.
I do understand your desire for Caldari Prime.
I get it.
I understand the avalanche of horrors on both sides that lead us to this point.
I understand you might be willing to GÇ£tradeGÇ¥ anything for such a prize.
Nine Hells I am a trader deals are my life.
But what I think you misunderstand is that I have no desire to put you or the State GÇ£over a barrelGÇ¥.
By the one God Pieter I want a just an honorable peace.
Not just for usGǪ but for you.
But I canGÇÖt find a way to trust you.
I canGÇÖt believe anything you say.
I will defend Federal interests to the best of my limited ability, but have no interest in taking advantage of you or yours.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Or maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, how about tying the return of the other half of Caldari Prime to a ceasefire? That would be attaching terms to the peace that ANYONE would be reluctant to hazard. Its a possibility worth discussing. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4448
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Posted - 2014.03.28 01:04:00 -
[132] - Quote
So another one of my drunk nights watching holoreels with an old friend has inspired me to say this:
Sorry, Federal citizens of Caldari Prime. But I've realised you are not as important as a peace process which affects literally trillions of people. If you literally cannot stomach the thought of living under Caldari rulership, there are thousands of Federation worlds which will take you in.
The Federation can survive that. I don't know if the Federation can survive another all-out war with the State.
We can win it, certainly. But I don't know if the Federation that could win a war against a State is a Federation I'd have any interest in living in. Mane 614
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Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2014.03.28 01:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:James, we only control one side of the terms - the Federation controls the other side. I'm constantly amazed that you don't recognise this as your chance to put the State over a barrel in terms of negotiation. Want everything in Placid taken off the table? No problem. Want trade agreements? No problem. You could certainly arrange excellent terms for those citizens of yours... But see Pieter that is the point. I do understand your desire for Caldari Prime. I get it. I understand the avalanche of horrors on both sides that lead us to this point. I understand you might be willing to GÇ£tradeGÇ¥ anything for such a prize. Nine Hells I am a trader deals are my life. But what I think you misunderstand is that I have no desire to put you or the State GÇ£over a barrelGÇ¥. By the one God Pieter I want a just an honorable peace. Not just for usGǪ but for you. But I canGÇÖt find a way to trust you. I canGÇÖt believe anything you say. I will defend Federal interests to the best of my limited ability, but have no interest in taking advantage of you or yours. Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Or maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, how about tying the return of the other half of Caldari Prime to a ceasefire? That would be attaching terms to the peace that ANYONE would be reluctant to hazard. Its a possibility worth discussing. I'd get behind that completely. We're all looking for that peace, mister Syagrius. Everyone but the slim, ignorant minority on both sides that think the war is a good thing. |
Gregory Na'Dare
The Knights of Polaris
12
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Posted - 2014.03.28 01:12:00 -
[134] - Quote
I have been asked by someone I respect to apologize to Ms. Oniseki and Mr. Tuulinen. Not necessary for what I said, but how I said it. You're my enemy, you're the enemy of the Federation. I just remember it isn't only Caldari who have been victimized on (pauses) Caldari Prime. Its my home too. But you Mrs. Ixiris can rot. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4448
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:19:00 -
[135] - Quote
If that's the way you feel. Mane 614
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2330
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:20:00 -
[136] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Speaking of goading...
Callous arrogance like this Na'Dare displays isn't going to be dispelled by reasonable arguments, nor by accurate sarcasm. Save it for the people whose opinions matter and can be changed.
You have to take into consideration that Na'Dare was born and raised on Caldari Prime himself. He is one of the many Gallenteans who can call the planet Home as much as you can. He represents the demographic living on the planet who the Liberals treat as house guest overstaying their welcome, who the Moderates treat as squatters, and who the Patriots treat as invaders.
I agree that it is unfortunate that Caldari Prime will never truly be 100% Caldari again. However, that's history. You cannot remove the Gallente presence on the planet or treat them as second class citizens. It's very evident that the Federation will not stand for that under any conditions.
You can't blame them of course, Caldari culture is about looking to the past. The spirits of one's ancestors, the tales of older times, ancient traditions that never faded away. The Caldari's sense of nostalgia is gorgeous. It's hard for even the most Nationalistic Gallentean to deny that Caldari culture is wonderful and beautiful. However, just this once citizens of the State, look toward the future and forgo the past.
There is a future of ships buzzing about between Caldari Prime and Gallente Prime, carrying brilliant goods, people, and ideas. You'll have Ishukone Raven's stomping out pirate threats in the Federation, while CreoDron drones save lives in operating rooms across the State. Suulo will become a more common expression than Jainjii. The Caldari will teach the Gallente to preserve and honor their past, while the Gallente teach the Caldari to look towards the future with an open mind. Sadly, none of this will ever happen unless there can be mutual respect for the two groups of people living on Caldari Prime.
Ishukone is getting ready to make this next step. The Senate is getting ready to make this next step. All we need to do is follow their lead. Afterall, what could go wrong? The worst case scenario has already happened. I'm going to hate myself for spewing out this trite saying, but for crying out loud, let's give peace a chance. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2330
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Posted - 2014.03.28 01:34:00 -
[137] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:So another one of my drunk nights watching holoreels with an old friend has inspired me to say this:
Sorry, Federal citizens of Caldari Prime. But I've realised you are not as important as a peace process which affects literally trillions of people. If you literally cannot stomach the thought of living under Caldari rulership, there are thousands of Federation worlds which will take you in.
The Federation can survive that. I don't know if the Federation can survive another all-out war with the State.
We can win it, certainly. But I don't know if the Federation that could win a war against a State is a Federation I'd have any interest in living in.
Mr. Ixiris, we almost always agree when it comes to State-Federation relations. However this time, with the utmost respect, I have to disagree.
It's not State leadership that I think Gallenteans on Caldari Prime are opposed to. It's being treated poorly by this government is what people are afraid of. I can say with total certainty that when the Caldari treat the Gallente like fellow Caldari (obviously minus the benefits of being a citizen) things go very well. This is how it was for me when I was a temporary resident of the Hysayoda Corporation. If Federation Citizens on Caldari Prime were allowed to vote in Federal elections, pay Federation taxes, and receive Federation government benefits, there probably wouldn't be a problem.
And as much as the prospect of a total war with the State would horrify me, a time like that is when the Federation needs the loyalty of it's citizens more than ever. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
257
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 01:46:00 -
[138] - Quote
Expanding on Pieters suggestion, the possibility of tying a cease fire to the return of Home would make a strong case for the Federation. Go a step farther, a non aggression agreement would likely go over just as well... Ultimately, pushing for open trade, even if it's only with some of the Okusaikan, would offer incentive for the long term maintenance of any peace treaty, via a conduit by which the States economy can remain in a high production footing while getting away from wartime tendencies. By making it unprofitable to consider military adventurism, it becomes far less likely. Our economy can move beyond it's current state of triage, the Federation gets a source of goods and materials (minus the ridiculous price fixing practices of yesteryear that the Okusaikan were so fond of in their efforts to shut out "competition"), and both sides have a focus for the competitive streak that will likely linger that doesn't involve razing colonies.
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Erys Charantes
University of Caille Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2014.03.28 01:59:00 -
[139] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Stitcher wrote:Speaking of goading...
Callous arrogance like this Na'Dare displays isn't going to be dispelled by reasonable arguments, nor by accurate sarcasm. Save it for the people whose opinions matter and can be changed. You have to take into consideration that Na'Dare was born and raised on Caldari Prime himself. He is one of the many Gallenteans who can call the planet Home as much as you can. He represents the demographic living on the planet who the Liberals treat as house guest overstaying their welcome, who the Moderates treat as squatters, and who the Patriots treat as invaders. I agree that it is unfortunate that Caldari Prime will never truly be 100% Caldari again. However, that's history. You cannot remove the Gallente presence on the planet or treat them as second class citizens. It's very evident that the Federation will not stand for that under any conditions. You can't blame them of course, Caldari culture is about looking to the past. The spirits of one's ancestors, the tales of older times, ancient traditions that never faded away. The Caldari's sense of nostalgia is gorgeous. It's hard for even the most Nationalistic Gallentean to deny that Caldari culture is wonderful and beautiful. However, just this once citizens of the State, look toward the future and forgo the past. There is a future of ships buzzing about between Caldari Prime and Gallente Prime, carrying brilliant goods, people, and ideas. You'll have Ishukone Raven's stomping out pirate threats in the Federation, while CreoDron drones save lives in operating rooms across the State. Suulo will become a more common expression than Jainjii. The Caldari will teach the Gallente to preserve and honor their past, while the Gallente teach the Caldari to look towards the future with an open mind. Sadly, none of this will ever happen unless there can be mutual respect for the two groups of people living on Caldari Prime. Ishukone is getting ready to make this next step. The Senate is getting ready to make this next step. All we need to do is follow their lead. Afterall, what could go wrong? The worst case scenario has already happened. I'm going to hate myself for spewing out this trite saying, but for crying out loud, let's give peace a chance. Fred, I too was born on Caldari Prime. I'm half Civire. And while I certainly agree with the majority of what you've said, Na'Dare's insistence on referring to Caldari Prime (recognized as such by the Federation) solely by it's system position is a slap in the face to anyone who actually respects the world and it's history. I have no home to go back to, since it was destroyed in the invasion, along with nearly everyone I held dear, and I refuse to take that excuse to enable arrogance on my end, so you may not be surprised that I've no tolerance for such self-centered behavior from others. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2334
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 02:15:00 -
[140] - Quote
Erys Charantes wrote: Fred, I too was born on Caldari Prime. I'm half Civire. And while I certainly agree with the majority of what you've said, Na'Dare's insistence on referring to Caldari Prime (recognized as such by the Federation) solely by it's system position is a slap in the face to anyone who actually respects the world and it's history. I have no home to go back to, since it was destroyed in the invasion, along with nearly everyone I held dear, and I refuse to take that excuse to enable arrogance on my end, so you may not be surprised that I've no tolerance for such self-centered behavior from others.
I will agree that calling the planet by its position is indeed disrespectful. However I still feel his point was valid despite it's rather apathetic tone. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3402
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Posted - 2014.03.28 02:15:00 -
[141] - Quote
Gregory Na'Dare wrote:I have been asked by someone I respect to apologize to Ms. Oniseki and Mr. Tuulinen. Not necessary for what I said, but how I said it. You're my enemy, you're the enemy of the Federation. I just remember it isn't only Caldari who have been victimized on (pauses) Caldari Prime. Its my home too. But you Mr. Ixiris can rot.
Oh, I remember the awfulness committed by the Provists on Caldari Prime. Maker above, I watched them destroy two Charons full of their own people, casually, for the crime of peacefully protesting so I can only imagine what they must have been willing to do to Federal Citizens.
Reparations are certainly due to those who suffered during the Reoccupation. (See, I'm searching for a word that sits neutrally between Occupation and Liberation!) As for me being your enemy - technically my Militia commission went inactive at the beginning of this week, so officially I'm no longer your enemy. Of course we're currently engaged in fighting a guerrilla war against the Federal occupiers of Enaluri, so I suppose if you count an enemy of the FDU to be an enemy of the Federation, I still am.
Depends on whether you feel that Militia trying to occupy an historically Caldari system constitute 'The Federation', I suppose. |
Gregory Na'Dare
The Knights of Polaris
14
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Posted - 2014.03.28 02:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote:I have been asked by someone I respect to apologize to Ms. Oniseki and Mr. Tuulinen. Not necessary for what I said, but how I said it. You're my enemy, you're the enemy of the Federation. I just remember it isn't only Caldari who have been victimized on (pauses) Caldari Prime. Its my home too. But you Mr. Ixiris can rot. Oh, I remember the awfulness committed by the Provists on Caldari Prime. Maker above, I watched them destroy two Charons full of their own people, casually, for the crime of peacefully protesting so I can only imagine what they must have been willing to do to Federal Citizens. Reparations are certainly due to those who suffered during the Reoccupation. (See, I'm searching for a word that sits neutrally between Occupation and Liberation!) As for me being your enemy - technically my Militia commission went inactive at the beginning of this week, so officially I'm no longer your enemy. Of course we're currently engaged in fighting a guerrilla war against the Federal occupiers of Enaluri, so I suppose if you count an enemy of the FDU to be an enemy of the Federation, I still am. Depends on whether you feel that Militia trying to occupy an historically Caldari system constitute 'The Federation', I suppose. Distinctions like that donGÇÖt matter much as long as there are State ships in Federal space or State boots on Federal soil. But I donGÇÖt fault you for defending your own people in your own territory. I'm not asking for reparations. The last thing I want is a handout from a Caldari. I just want you to understand its my home and just like you I am going to fight for it. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
124
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Posted - 2014.03.28 03:39:00 -
[143] - Quote
Gregory Na'Dare wrote: Distinctions like that donGÇÖt matter much as long as there are State ships in Federal space or State boots on Federal soil. But I donGÇÖt fault you for defending your own people in your own territory not asking for reparations. The last thing I want is a handout from a Caldari. I just want you to understand its my home and just like you I am going to fight for it.
So, got a question for you here. What happens if the impossible, as it were, comes to pass, and Home gets given back to the State? I'm kinda curious as to what you'd do in that event, so lets assume for the sake of discourse that its possible. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
3402
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 05:35:00 -
[144] - Quote
Agiri Falken wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote: Distinctions like that donGÇÖt matter much as long as there are State ships in Federal space or State boots on Federal soil. But I donGÇÖt fault you for defending your own people in your own territory not asking for reparations. The last thing I want is a handout from a Caldari. I just want you to understand its my home and just like you I am going to fight for it.
So, got a question for you here. What happens if the impossible, as it were, comes to pass, and Home gets given back to the State? I'm kinda curious as to what you'd do in that event, so lets assume for the sake of discourse that its possible.
I guess we just have to make the rest of the Federation want to hand over the other half of Home. Democracy should win out at that point. To be honest I don't have an especial yen to do it by fire and sword - quite happy to do it by trade and diplomacy. Actually, I'd prefer that. Right now this war is screwing us Patriots just as hard as you Liberals - loads of our property is in the CEWPA warzone and it just can't be developed properly with the 'Forever War' going on. |
Agiri Falken
State War Academy Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 06:50:00 -
[145] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Agiri Falken wrote:Gregory Na'Dare wrote: Distinctions like that donGÇÖt matter much as long as there are State ships in Federal space or State boots on Federal soil. But I donGÇÖt fault you for defending your own people in your own territory not asking for reparations. The last thing I want is a handout from a Caldari. I just want you to understand its my home and just like you I am going to fight for it.
So, got a question for you here. What happens if the impossible, as it were, comes to pass, and Home gets given back to the State? I'm kinda curious as to what you'd do in that event, so lets assume for the sake of discourse that its possible. I guess we just have to make the rest of the Federation want to hand over the other half of Home. Democracy should win out at that point. To be honest I don't have an especial yen to do it by fire and sword - quite happy to do it by trade and diplomacy. Actually, I'd prefer that. Right now this war is screwing us Patriots just as hard as you Liberals - loads of our property is in the CEWPA warzone and it just can't be developed properly with the 'Forever War' going on. Agreed. I'd still like to hear Na'Dare's answer though, if only academically. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
964
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 07:15:00 -
[146] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote: By the one God Pieter I want a just an honorable peace.
If you really want peace, get the hell out your peoples from OUR planet, before we turned them into bloody mush of flesh.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
964
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 07:21:00 -
[147] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: I guess we just have to make the rest of the Federation want to hand over the other half of Home. Democracy should win out at that point. To be honest I don't have an especial yen to do it by fire and sword - quite happy to do it by trade and diplomacy. Actually, I'd prefer that. Right now this war is screwing us Patriots just as hard as you Liberals - loads of our property is in the CEWPA warzone and it just can't be developed properly with the 'Forever War' going on.
They use democracy only when it is profitable for them. They won't start elections, knowing they will lose it, you see. They might do it, only if they pump our home planet with more gallenteans and order them to vote for the Federation.
And no, it is simply impossible to get it back by trade and diplomacy. Don't forget, we are dealing with gallenteans. They won't just give it or trade away, unless it will be like ten or hundred times less profitable for us. |
Gregory Na'Dare
The Knights of Polaris
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:37:00 -
[148] - Quote
Agiri Falken wrote:So, got a question for you here. What happens if the impossible, as it were, comes to pass, and Home gets given back to the State? I'm kinda curious as to what you'd do in that event, so lets assume for the sake of discourse that its possible. I have more faith in our elected leaders than to think that they would allow such a dishonorable act to occur. I think Operation Highlander demonstrated that such a decision is highly unlikely reguarding the Federations commitment to its citizens on (pauses) Caldari Prime. But I respect the democratic ideal. So hypothetically Ms. Falken If the Federal Senate expressing the popular will of the GÇ£PeopleGÇ¥ decide to return (pauses again) Caldari Prime to the State then I will respect the decision. Until then I will do whatever I can to see that doesnGÇÖt happen.
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Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
157
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Posted - 2014.03.28 15:42:00 -
[149] - Quote
It is clear that the issue of Caldari Prime will not be one which is easily solved, and I honestly expect the situation to remain largely unchanged for at least the near term. Pilot Na'Dare's situation is exactly what I speak of when I say that the planet belongs to those who live or have been born on it. He did not occupy Caldari Prime he is Federation Citizen who was born there, his very individual history is tied to the planet. He is only one example of many Gallenteans both baseliners and capsuleers who have been born on, or immigrated to and share the same "Home" as the Caldari.
Not being born on Gallente Prime does not make him any less Gallentean, than a Caldari who was not born on Caldari Prime. We are not denying the Caldari their ancestral homeworld, we are merely asking for a mutual respect, and a recognition towards the Gallentean population which has become a culture of its own upon the planet. We want an understanding and a security that the Federation citizens on Caldari Prime will be treated equally, that they will retain their human rights, and they will be respected when they also proclaim Caldari Prime as their "Home".
As I have said before, those who live on the planet by birth or by legal immigration have more right to the planet than those who do not. This is not meant as an attack against heritage.
There are many State citizens who I respectfully disagree with, those who I would willingly shake hands with after an engagement on the battlefield. What bothers me, however are those Federation Citizens who so casually assume it would be wise to uproot and move Gallenteans who have made "Home" their home. Your positon speaks from one of appeasement, not one of strength or of respect. You poorly represent the values of The Federation when you would so dismissively transplant whole families throughout the Federation, it speaks poorly of your so called humanitarianism |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3397
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:51:00 -
[150] - Quote
Here's the funny thing. Do you know what Caldari have historically done to annexed districts and their residents?
Historically, we've put them to work on a fair wage and incorporated them into the system. when Placid was overrun by the STPRO early in the war, megacorporate administration was installed on a lot of worlds, and the first thing they did was employ the existing residents as on-the-ground leadership and colonial leadership. A lot of colony administrators in the warzone nowadays keep their position no matter who's in charge because when the Federation's in control they've been doing such good jobs that they get re-elected, and when the State takes over they're recognised as having earned the position on merit.
Captured troops are offered fair pay and the opportunity to defect and join the winning cause. Local talent is recruited, local knowledge valued, local infrastructure exploited and local culture respected because those things are practical. When you take over an area you can either subdue, alienate, oppress and humiliate the locals, which will ony foment and inspire resistance movements, or you can let their lives tick over more or less unchanged, except that now everything is cleaner, living is cheaper, work is more available, wages are higher and the employment package includes dental and medical.
Guess which one results in fewer ongoing problems for the occupation? It's a zealous resistance indeed that continues to fight when their own neighbors and kin are begging them to stop.
Provism was an anomaly in that respect. One we're expunging.
Sure, that's the ideal rather than the reality a lot of the time, but I invite you to remember that the one person who ever ordered that Home should be burned rather than compromised was disobeyed, ousted and is now the State's #1 most wanted.
If you don't trust our word, trust our self-interest. And our self-interest is for a politically stable, prosperous Caldari Prime. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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