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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
42
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Posted - 2014.03.27 21:01:00 -
[6301] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:H aVo K wrote:You could say... it's immaterial. I'd say its quite material, when it is the mechanism employed against the victim in order to force them out of the Bonus Room, in order to win it.
So by that definition (that you're ignoring) that I linked you, it's only torture if the pain is inflicted on someone that they physically control.... and because they're using it to push them out of the bonus room (and outside their "control"), it's torture.
Your logic is *actually* causing me pain. I'm not even exaggerating. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2014.03.27 21:02:00 -
[6302] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ok, so that isn't.
Then what is?
Having fun and showing faith. You were told that before you handed your assets over.
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Dave Stark
4784
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:02:00 -
[6303] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
can we get a blue tag to weigh in on the matter?
we've had two. don't break the forum rules is the official stance. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
563
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:02:00 -
[6304] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA.
This is the most likely outcome based on previous events... How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1085
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:02:00 -
[6305] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
excellent, now everyone can get on with ignoring the whole issue like they have been for the months it has been going on.
Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client.
Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
40
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Posted - 2014.03.27 21:02:00 -
[6306] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:olan2005 wrote:Xuixien wrote:Jen Takhesis wrote:lollerwaffle wrote: So let me ask you some simple questions: Does Erotic 1 deserve a ban (some are even pushing for a lifetime ban)? If yes, on what grounds? Which rules did he break to result in this punishment?
Woah, seriously? Have you read the Eve Online terms of service? "Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given. "1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player... "2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language..." Now, you may argue that some of this occurred outside of the Eve Online servers, but there is also no doubt that parts of the behaviors were simultaneously occurring on the Eve Online servers. So the abusive/harassing behavior was in both spheres. Or are you seriously arguing the equivalent of "I beat him up off school grounds, so when he opened his locker to give me his lunch money, no beatings occurred on school grounds?" Erotica 1 did not abuse (despite certain individuals finding non-legal definitions of the term and trying to contort Erotica 1's actions to fit), harass (the individual was free to leave at any time) or threaten anyone. Erotica 1 did not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. Either you did not listen to the recording or you did not read the quote you posted, or both. The counter point to you're argument is that coercion through holding assets to ransom was used to get the player to stay . Finish and You get your stuff back. ,was the ransom angle that kept the victim their. He was not completely free to leave as that meant forfeiture of his assets Yes, I am sure that would hold up in court ("Your honor, the subject was clearly held in duress. The defendant had taken possession of his virtual spaceship." Also, you should read the EULA. None of the items are owned by the players. So Sohkar had no assets to hold as ransom. You think paying 15 a month means you own your ISK? No, you are merely paying for access to the System and the toys CCP allows you to play with.
But there is still an intrinsic value to the player who invested time to acquire virtual assets which are the property of ccp but his to use. Without those assets he would have had to start from scratch |
Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:03:00 -
[6307] - Quote
So you admit Bonus Round is unwinnable?
But that makes you a liar for having said that people have won it. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
477
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:04:00 -
[6308] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
can we get a blue tag to weigh in on the matter? we've had two. don't break the forum rules is the official stance. lol, forgive me for missing that. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Dave Stark
4784
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:04:00 -
[6309] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
excellent, now everyone can get on with ignoring the whole issue like they have been for the months it has been going on. Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client. ripard used his blog to spark a witch hunt. Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong.
ftfy. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5492
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:04:00 -
[6310] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
Thanks Malcanis!
Will there be a blog or other announcement of what the position on this will be?
Although I'm pretty sure most of us already have a good idea of what it will be... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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Salvos Rhoska
818
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:04:00 -
[6311] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:showing faith
How do you show faith for purposes of winning the Bonus Round? -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14559
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:05:00 -
[6312] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA.
You could make that interpretation
1 Kings 12:11
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Vilar Diin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Li3 Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.03.27 21:05:00 -
[6313] - Quote
Berendas wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Really? Is that what they should do? Just lock it? Because you said so? Or should they do what they are doing. Using it for feedback and a time killer while they formulate a response to an issue that would have come to a head sooner or later with or without Ripard as the catalyst. They're giving us the respect of allowing us to post our feelings on this matter unmoderated. How often does that happen? If I were you I'd just back out of the thread now since you are so offended by this rare concession from CCP. Mr Epeen You seem to be confusing a suggestion for an order. Besides, any posts that would constitute meaningful or useful feedback have long since been lost in this 300+ page leviathan of egregious metaphors and mudslinging. I'm not a particularly active poster in the thread, but as an EVE player I have a interest in what might occur as a result of all this nonsense. I'll continue to keep checking up on it as long as it remains active even if I'm against the thread staying open. Slightly related: Several pages back someone posted a link to a 'stat' page for this thread. Would anyone kindly supply a link to that page or inform me on how to view/recreate it myself?
It is amusing to see that the same people that tell others to "do something if you have a problem with it" are the one's that are now trying to suppress the unified voice of the community. (aside from 10 people or so and their alts) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
477
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:05:00 -
[6314] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client. ripard used his blog to spark a witch hunt.
Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong.
ftfy.[/quote] i dont see this ending well for him If in doubt...do...excessively. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
564
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:06:00 -
[6315] - Quote
Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
Great! Time to lock this thread.
Agreed, its disintigrating into a typical General Discussion thread.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4488
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:06:00 -
[6316] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
excellent, now everyone can get on with ignoring the whole issue like they have been for the months it has been going on. Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client. Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong.
You post exactly like Baltec. Exactly. It's uncanny once you see it.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Dave Stark
4791
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:07:00 -
[6317] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client. ripard used his blog to spark a witch hunt.
Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong.
ftfy. i dont see this ending well for him[/quote]
nothing will happen to erotica, the racist who's name i still can't remember how to spell, or ripard.
the official stance will be "care is lower than a hooker's undergarments" and swept under the carpet. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:07:00 -
[6318] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA.
They'll probably put this: http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=34
into a welcome to eve mail lol |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
249
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:07:00 -
[6319] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA. You could make that interpretation
Can you stop talking in codes and with a politicians tounge?? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
334
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:08:00 -
[6320] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
You may not be able to (or want to) answer this, but I'm curious how this issue came to csm attention. Was this brought up by CCP, or was it player driven? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
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Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1092
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:08:00 -
[6321] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:
But there is still an intrinsic value to the player who invested time to acquire virtual assets which are the property of ccp but his to use. Without those assets he would have had to start from scratch
Well to people like me, Erotica 1, and others: It's just space pixels, who cares.
To people like Sohkar, I guess they're a huge invest of time and energy and have personal value.
Good thing no one is responsible for the subjective feelings of anyone else. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Dave Stark
4791
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:08:00 -
[6322] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
Great! Time to lock this thread. Agreed, its disintigrating into a typical General Discussion thread.
a topic in general discussion turning in to a topic in general discussion?
shocker. |
rodyas
tie fighters inc
1328
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6323] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Malcanis wrote:Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA. You could make that interpretation Can you stop talking in codes and with a politicians tounge??
Everyone is getting handjobs. Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1092
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6324] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Malcanis wrote:Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA. You could make that interpretation Can you stop playing in codes and with a politicians tounge??
He's on the CSM. Of course he's a politician and will speak like one.
You just need to learn how to speak Politicianese. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Dave Stark
4791
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6325] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Malcanis wrote:Xuixien wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
So nothing will be done to Erotica 1 then, except maybe a slap on the wrist and possibly some revision of the EULA. You could make that interpretation Can you stop playing in codes and with a politicians tounge??
he basically said you're free to read whatever he wrote, and jump to whatever wild conclusion you want to. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
477
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6326] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
Yeah. The issue they were ignoring for months until Erotica 1's life was threatened by a mentally unstable client. ripard used his blog to spark a witch hunt.
Somehow this means Erotica 1 is in the wrong.
ftfy. i dont see this ending well for him
nothing will happen to erotica, the racist who's name i still can't remember how to spell, or ripard.
the official stance will be "care is lower than a hooker's undergarments" and swept under the carpet.[/quote] yeah, you cought me mid forum derp ,i ment ripard If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6327] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote: Sounds like they're torturing CCP Gargant and he's enjoying it. They're even physically restraining a player in game. Uh oh, bans inc.
People talking about how E1 "clearly crossed a line" seem to be anathema to articulating clearly what that line is. And more importantly, what it isn't.
That's what I've found too. Even working to help them clarify makes them break down in confusion.
It's like saying "There's a different between having fun and holding the person against their will and harassing them!"
And it's like "no ****, now how is this harassment?" |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
341
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6328] - Quote
Look what Microsoft is doing in cases like this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26766098
EVE should do similar. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:09:00 -
[6329] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Regarding : 2. What was done was not a violation of the EULA Actually this is extremely relevant. Game companies should not be in the habit of banning players for any reason outside of explicitly stated game rules. Doing so erodes player trust in the company.
Fair enough - I'll concede here, at least in general terms. However I think that the specific case here there is sufficient grounds for CCP to declare it to be harrassment should they choose to.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Regarding: 3. They didn't do this other stuff that would have been much worse
I haven't seen this argument made except in hyperbole, but you are correct.
I've been reading the thread on and off and there's been more straw men than a Wizzard of Oz costume party.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Regarding: 4. The vicitim had a choice not to be victimized
I'm 95% in agreement with you here. My biggest issue with this argument is that the "victim" did lash out at Ero and the excrow agents involved. Honestly I need to listen to the full recording (haven't found the time), but I'm very unwilling to say that he was completely blameless in this case.
Oh - I'm certainly not sanctifying the behaviour of the victim here. He made some pretty unpleasant comments. However, that doesn't mean he wasn't a victim or that he should be blamed for being a victim.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: What is far more important than any ban that may or may not occur is any statement CCP makes in conjunction with the ban. I would not be surprised to see a EULA update targeted at curbing this kind of behavior but leaving scamming as a whole intact. I'm really hoping that singing ransoms and such are not targeted, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in terms of whats allowed when leading someone on for a long period of time, along with guidelines as to where to stop a scam before hurting another player in ways that affect them out of game. Of course any changes are on a case-by-case evaluation under GM discretion.
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly here. I would be very surprised if this didn't result in a change in the EULA. There's a number of different ways that CCP could do so and I'm not going to play the speculation game. I will say that I wouldn't be unhappy to see ISK-doubling scams and the like disappear, though. I don't see them add anything meaningful or useful to the game. Corp heists etc add meaningful meta to the game as a whole and for great news stories. Cheap scams preying on newbies not so much. |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cataclysmic Paradox
181
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:10:00 -
[6330] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Malcanis wrote:Just to inject some factual information:
1) CCP have taken notice of the the issue. 2) So have the CSM. 3) I personally I am very content with the direction the resultant discussion took. All my concerns were dealt with, and the CSM has a unified position.
You may not be able to (or want to) answer this, but I'm curious how this issue came to csm attention. Was this brought up by CCP, or was it player driven?
It was most likely brought to their attention by Ripard and then brought to the forefront by this Threadnaught.. |
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