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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
674
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:45:00 -
[781] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy? Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round. So we understand correctly...
Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him. Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour. A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour. The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.
F Would you like to know more? |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
169
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:45:00 -
[782] - Quote
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:I cancelled one of my money-paying subscriptions in protest at CCP tolerating cyber-bullying.
I encourage others to do the same.
We can live without that 4th dictor/cyno alt. CCP cant live without our money.
Time to make a stand and clean up EVE. This. I encourage everyone who finds something wrong with the bonus room to biomass your characters and then cancel your subscriptions. You might want to consider playing WoW while you wait for CCP to turn Eve into the carebear paradise you long for.
If you're looking for someone to look after your assets in the meantime, I am more than happy to hold onto your stuff for you. Psychotic Monk for CSM! |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
299
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:46:00 -
[783] - Quote
So where's the coercion?
The forcing.
The humiliation that the victim had no choice but be subject to?
In short, where's the actual bullying? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Dave Stark
4608
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:46:00 -
[784] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy? Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round. So we understand correctly... Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him. Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour. A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour. The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO. F
i'm going to assume it was a quick search because you knew exactly where to find such services? ;) |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3102
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:47:00 -
[785] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Erotica 1 wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Again: how much isk was scammed out of that guy? Client lost around 1b total when he failed the bonus round. So we understand correctly... Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him. Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour. A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour. The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO. F This is a solid assessment. A 2nd bonus round is definitely in order.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
454
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:48:00 -
[786] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Vyktor Abyss wrote: the more vulnerable players of the game How do you propose identifying these people? What makes someone vunerable? Should they wear a special badge or something? Vyktor Abyss wrote:protect the credibility of the whole Eve community. Ill just let that sentence stand as it is. Vyktor Abyss wrote:Will it take an event like those recent chat room bullying-suicides (and probably the subsequent closure of Eve) Ok well I assume those were not EvE related or the forums would be on melt-down. However I am certain that they are more complex issues than you have made out and did not include a full grown adult man with rage issues and a helluva greed for spacecash. Vyktor Abyss wrote: CCP need to properly police and moderate (which is different to consorship) their community for the benefit of the whole community. Again, though, where is the line between "We deleted that comment because it could lead to unpleasant RL consequences" and "We deleted it because you like something we dont"?
Ramona,
Thank you for highlighting relevant parts of my post and by means of your terrible posting, adding weight to my argument.
Vulnerable members like those with learning difficulties, speech impediments or any the world of other conditions and disabilities that are part of most large communities don't need identifying as you sadly suggest. They need to be protected by appropriate moderation when it is identified like in this case that they have been victims of bullying.
I pity you if you don't see that in any large community of people, that if the community as a whole fails to act to help the victims within their own community then it deminishes the credibility of that whole community. For example if an Eve player was bullied to the point of suicide, I would definately feel ashamed to be part of that *game* community and hope that CCP would adopt measures to ever stop that from happening again. I'm suggesting they act proactively here and not wait for someone to be trolled/bullied to death, but actively go after any people who seek to hurt the game or the community (like they do with RMTs for example).
There have been many chat-room related suicides and although more common in teenagers, I don't see why you would suggest one form of anonymous internet bullying is much different from another and suggest that Eve's players are somehow more mature than the general internet population. Evidently not.
The first article I randomly found is here for you, but there was another well publicised case as recently as 6 months ago making national news here and it sadly appears to be a growing trend. You may never know the issues people have for doing these things, but to suggest that there is some mythical line people either cross or do not when bullying is ridiculous and shows how silly your viewpoint is. Bullying is wrong, just don't do it.
Clear cases of bullying, like this one, need CCP attention and action regarless of it occuring on a teamspeak server or not. I'm glad Jester's blog highlighted this case ( I personally just thought Erotica 1 was just a forum troll, so it was news to me) and may hopefully draw some CCP attention. You too if you keep posting to this new threadnaught also contribute, so thank you.
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1458
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:48:00 -
[787] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:Meh, I think the moment that the conversation turned from the removal of his assets and to his personal dignity it crossed the line for me.
Scamming is part of the game you say? Yes, humiliation and public ridicule however are not.
CCP Gargant was Ok with it when it happened to him.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=308111
I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16891
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:49:00 -
[788] - Quote
You know what upsets me the most?
Not getting those last 2 songs sang. It's criminal I tell ya, CRIMINAL! Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14438
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:50:00 -
[789] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU
1 Kings 12:11
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2542
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:51:00 -
[790] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote: Thank you for highlighting relevant parts of my post and by means of your terrible posting, adding weight to my argument.
Sorry I have no idea who you are *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
526
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:52:00 -
[791] - Quote
Batelle wrote:5) the accuser was consenting and not coerced (the fact that the accuser was lied to doesn't necessarily make it coercion, erotica1 never had any means of coercion nor claimed to have such means).
"Either you come come to this out of game context, or your ingame assets are lost to you". This constitutes coercion, by means of duress.
Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context.
Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately).
But he then applies duress (by means of ransoming the players ingame assets against his out of game compliance) to force/coerce that player into an out of game context where the rest of the blackmail/extortion can occur. |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
255
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:54:00 -
[792] - Quote
Also for the grr goons squad (because of tinfoil)
"mynnnaMarch 25, 2014 at 5:39 AM
Erotica1 had an alt in a goon membercorp (or perhaps it was his main character, who knows) and when he brought attention to himself trying to brag about his actions we shot him in the head for it. " https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
865
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:55:00 -
[793] - Quote
Emma Muutaras wrote:
personally i would advice the victim to make a official complaint to his/her local police.
The player isn't real life identified. The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.
If you want to compare that to what goes on with facebook, forget it. ie there are slates that can't be wiped clean, this isn't one of them.
If bloggers didn't pick the bonus room up, it wouldn't even be widely distributed.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17453
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:56:00 -
[794] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU Good old Monty Python, a video for every occasion, including what is turning out to be a witch hunt.
I don't agree with what Erotica does, I find it distasteful, but I'll be damned if I'm joining in on a populist Salem-esque witch hunt.
That said, I have pitchforks and burning torches for sale at Jita 4-4, ask me nicely and I might even do a decent deal on ducking stools. Profit is profit after all.
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Qalix
Long Jump.
209
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Posted - 2014.03.25 19:56:00 -
[795] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Wesley Otsdarva wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/25/heres-some-of-the-cyberbullying-that-happens-in-eve-online/
So here goes for news coverage. This can only bring more players to EVE. Let's test it with a 21 day buddy invite on that page. Out of curiousity (and acknowledging that it is probably impossible to determine), if it could be determined conclusively that your behavior and behavior like yours was actually affecting CCP's bottom line and either new customers weren't joining or old customers were leaving, would you change your behavior voluntarily?
Also, I've been sharing this story with my coworkers. To a man (and woman), they don't get what the point of your actions were. What the "fun" was. I've attempted to use the traditional EVE explanations but have failed to get across to them the "bad guy" play style embedded in EVE. If you had to explain to a non-EVE, non-MMO person what you were doing and why, what would you say? |
Dave Stark
4609
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:56:00 -
[796] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:If bloggers didn't pick the bonus room up, it wouldn't even be widely distributed.
and people still wouldn't care. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
11265
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:56:00 -
[797] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: So we understand correctly...
Client willingly participated in demeaning acts done upon him. Client paid equivalent of approx $29 USD in ISK/assets, which divided by 2 hours equals $7.25 per half hour. A quick search for S&M dominatrices (not related to the Dominix) in my area quotes S&M services at $140 per half hour. The client owes Erotica1 for the difference IMHO.
F
I normally don't agree with you Feyd, but in this, your logic is undeniable. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
rodyas
tie fighters inc
1324
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 19:58:00 -
[798] - Quote
Anyone catching the march madness thing? What teams are winning? When does the final four start? Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
865
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:00:00 -
[799] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Batelle wrote:5) the accuser was consenting and not coerced (the fact that the accuser was lied to doesn't necessarily make it coercion, erotica1 never had any means of coercion nor claimed to have such means). "Either you come come to this out of game context, or your ingame assets are lost to you". This constitutes coercion, by means of duress. Duress is represented in this case by Erotica1 holding the players ingame assets against him as ransom, as a means of blackmail/extortion to coerce the player into the out of game context. Erotica1 already holds the players assets at this point (legitimately). But he then applies duress (by means of ransoming the players ingame assets against his out of game compliance) to force/coerce that player into an out of game context where the rest of the blackmail/extortion can occur.
aye, and the experience is almost exactly akin to playing poker where someone you don't like is in the game, who has a big mouth and goads you into going all in with the second best hand.
better learned about with cheap virtual things imo. |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
21
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:00:00 -
[800] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:I don't see how anyone with a straight face can use the words torture, victim, etc in relation to a game that you voluntarily play, where the items and actions aren't real, and you can leave at any time you want. You can block/ignore anyone you want, close down TS any time. All that tells me is the person saying this lives a life that must be privileged and free of any actual problems nearing the definition of victim or torture. I don't know about the guy in question, but if singing a song on TS or losing all my spaceship stuff ranked among the big deals in life, my life would be much better than it is now.
The appeal to the female relative is strange as well, like some kind of shaming based on sexism? I don't know. Should I inflict this on a lady, they are such delicate creatures, they may have hysterics or something? I don't tell my grandmother some of the things that goes on in the bedroom which I'm pretty sure would freak her the hell out. It's not something she would understand, and probably eve she wouldn't understand either, so what is it supposed to mean exactly.
Your grandma is probably more knowledgeable about sex than you think. |
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Pew Terror
Green Associates TITANS.
163
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:00:00 -
[801] - Quote
quick tl;dr:
Give me ingame thing X, I wont betray you (mauahahaha) <- Valid EvE gameplay, not under argument I will not return ingame item X unless you do action Y in real life! <- Topic under discussion.
Does item X represent an object of value to the victim so that making him perform action Y is blackmail/coersion? Where is the line for action Y in real life (singing a single song widely considered ok, self mutilation considered not ok. Line somewhere in the middle). Is there a moral standard pertaining RL interaction between players that demands CCP interaction? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:00:00 -
[802] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character.
You are underestimating the severity of this situation.
Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2543
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:02:00 -
[803] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tauranon wrote:The sum total of harm is a couple of hours of frustration, a days worth of farming (of virtual assets the player doesn't really own anyway), and if the player really, really, really wants to get away from the experience, trade the character. You are underestimating the severity of this situation. Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.
Are you serious?!
I loled for real
Seriously *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:03:00 -
[804] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:You are underestimating the severity of this situation.
Extortion and blackmail are a federal felony in the US.
Are you serious?!
I loled for real
Seriously[/quote]
Yes, I'm for real. Look em up yourself.
Did you really think that there are no people playing EVE capable of committing a felony OUTSIDE of EVE? |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2397
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:04:00 -
[805] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Batelle wrote:Your words. Some guy getting embarrassed because he's greedy is in no way comparable to sexual assault. I wasn't comparing it to sexual assault. I was comparing his rationalization to the rationalizations for sexual assault.
Then allow me to be fully serious here.
Blaming the victim in RL sexual violence = not okay, and such rationalization is in and of itself morally reprehensible since the rationalization itself does measurable harm to real people who are or are yet to be victims of sexual assault.
Blaming the victim in RL for other crimes = you blame the victim where appropriate given the circumstances and blame the criminal always.
Blaming the victim in Eve scam = okay. Eve is a dangerous place and assumed to be dangerous, and since we can't blame the eve-criminal for valid gameplay, we can certainly blame the victim for being stupid and greedy. If the criminal does morally reprehensible things (like manipulating and taunting the disabled), then we consider and judge that separately from the scam. It may make the victim seem more sympathetic, but it doesn't make him any less stupid and greedy. Blaming the victim isn't the same as absolving the criminal. Its just that in Eve we tend to hold the criminal blameless by default, because its much more fun that way. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2543
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:05:00 -
[806] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Yes, I'm for real. Look em up yourself.
Did you really think that there are no people playing EVE capable of committing a felony OUTSIDE of EVE?
Im laughing because you are a fantasist if you think those apply *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
534
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:05:00 -
[807] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:So where's the coercion?
The forcing.
The humiliation that the victim had no choice but be subject to?
In short, where's the actual bullying?
Well for one I highly doubt that Erotica takes the time to explain what the bonus round is BEFORE taking all their assets. So the victim gives all their assets under the assumption that the bonus round is all fun and games. Then once stripped of all assets, Erotica has leverage to keep it going for as long as he likes. Anyone who argues that the items aren't worth anything is kidding themselves. There is real time and effort (and sometimes money) invested in these items. None of us would willingly take a loss that makes up the majority of assets we gathered during our time played.
Using that leverage Erotica drags the bonus room on and on and on to the point where it's not reasonably fun anymore. Sing a few songs, fine. Few jokes here and there, also fine. But there's a point where a 'hazing' turns into bullying. But as the victim what are you going to do? If you say no you lose all your stuff and that's a big gamble to take when the end of the torment could be just beyond the next 'joke'.
Sure you could say that you shouldn't be stupid enough to participate in the first place. But if for whatever reason someone does decides to participate, that doesn't mean Erotica gets a free ticket to be a sadistic bastard. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
552
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 20:05:00 -
[808] - Quote
As suggested in the blog, I let my dear grandmother hear the hilarious soundcloud and explained to her what happened.
She asked; Why is this poor man playing along with this charade? My answer: He thinks he can be space rich if he does. Her answer: Greedy and stupid... poor chap.
D.
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Dave Stark
4609
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:06:00 -
[809] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Batelle wrote:Your words. Some guy getting embarrassed because he's greedy is in no way comparable to sexual assault. I wasn't comparing it to sexual assault. I was comparing his rationalization to the rationalizations for sexual assault. Then allow me to be fully serious here. Blaming the victim in RL sexual violence = not okay, and such rationalization is in and of itself morally reprehensible since the rationalization itself does measurable harm to real people who are or are yet to be victims of sexual assault. Blaming the victim in RL for other crimes = you blame the victim where appropriate given the circumstances and blame the criminal always. Blaming the victim in Eve scam = okay. Eve is a dangerous place and assumed to be dangerous, and since we can't blame the eve-criminal for valid gameplay, we can certainly blame the victim for being stupid and greedy. If the criminal does morally reprehensible things (like manipulating and taunting the disabled), then we consider and judge that separately from the scam. It may make the victim seem more sympathetic, but it doesn't make him any less stupid and greedy. Blaming the victim isn't the same as absolving the criminal. Its just that in Eve we tend to hold the criminal blameless by default, because its much more fun that way.
we don't even need to blame the victim, we just need to point out that this situation simply didn't need to happen if the "victim" didn't want it to happen as he was one keystroke from the situation not existing. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
528
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Posted - 2014.03.25 20:06:00 -
[810] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Im laughing because you are a fantasist if you think those apply
It applies completely, because it happened OUTSIDE OF EVE. |
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