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Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 03:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Knowing that this is a highly disputed item in Eve its tough to just make a post in here. Let me start by saying I don't know every in and out of the market or how it would turn out exactly but here is my idea. Many ideas have been proposed, get rid of moon goo, add it to wormholes, make it a high sec thing too, stop giving it all to the big alliances, rebalance it yet again etc, etc etc. I also say this knowing that most of the CSM members hold large amounts of moons and probably wouldn't like this idea as it screws with some of their income.
The solution: Make moon goo movable. By this I mean have the same amount of moons for everything you have now, but no matter what the moon goo is, make it decay after 30 days of mining. If there is a second mineral on the planet then that would decay also depending on if they were being mined one at a time or concurrently. The minerals in question would stay on that moon until it had been mined for a complete 30 day total.
After 30 days of mining this mineral would be gone with a chance to appear at another moon within a specified area (CCP's choice, system, constellation, region, universe, etc.). My opinion would be region or constellation depends on a lot of factors i'm sure. After the 30 days of mining the owner of the POS would have nothing left to mine as the mineral was depleted OR he/she may get lucky an have another mineral type spawn on that moon to be mined for another 30 days.
Additionally you can make these moons have the same effect as mining asteroids in belts. As an example, you could mine a moon for 20 days. Another group of players could RF and kill your POS. They would have 10 days of mining left on the moon or in a more extreme case they could kill your tower after 29 days of mining and go through all that effort only to be able to mine the moon for less than a day.
The Effect: Depending on how big of an area of respawn you decide on would cause many different things to occur.
1) Increase 0.0 traffic for people scanning for potentially profitable moons, jumping towers in to systems, hauling materials out, and moving in the new siphon units to name a few things.
2) Having large POS's built as "**** stars" and "death stars" etc, virtually impossible for small fleets to kill and a pain in the ass for large sov blocks to deal with, would no longer be the norm. Quickly deployed, small inexpensive pos's would become the most effective. High reward with minimal Isk risk but increase 0.0 operational risk.
3) Moon goo mineral prices will fluctuate more. As certain moons are found less and/or more often prices will increase and decrease depending on supply. CCP could in fact help balance T2 production and moon materials more easily by simply increasing or decreasing the amount of spawns of a specific moon goo as prices fluctuate. Want to make something more expensive then reduce the amount of moons that produce it.....want to reduce the price of an item than increase the amount of moons that produce that goo for 30 days.
4) No more concentrated ownership of moons. Who cares if Goons have owned the Tech moon in 33FN-P for 3 years. They won't get any more Tech out of it in 30 days time and then everyone in Eve has the same even chance to get that Tech for the next 30 days or however long they can hold it.
5) This would open another aspect of market trade for information. Just like people who do or use to sell WH locations for isk people would be able to sell moon locations for isk. There are numerous applications for niches in this new system.
These are the changes I'd like to see occur to moon mining. Sorry about the wall of text and I'm obviously open for any suggestions people might have to tweak or improve my thoughts. I also acknowledge that this may never happen or may appear completely stupid to someone. Don't care.
o/
Elvamerc Supreme ruler of nothing. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2598
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 10:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
How high do you want to spike T2 prices?
And why should it be borderline impossible to actually make any money from holding a moon?
And who's going to want to probe down every moon in every system they own every couple of weeks? |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 11:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
I do habe a question, is there a reason why we cant Moon Mining in WH Space? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
313
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 11:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I do habe a question, is there a reason why we cant Moon Mining in WH Space?
Balance reasons I guess
I would like to see limited moon mining made available in hi-sec though, with permits earned by running overhauled S&I missions. Mining could be via a deployable 'moon worm' if the usual mining arrays aren't an option.
|
Sigras
Conglomo
698
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 11:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
moon goo that depletes may seem like a good idea at first but it is prone to a few problems that may not be immediately apparent.
1. Moon scanning - If you've never done it before, I suggest you scan 200-300 moons every day for a month, because most alliances would need to employ several people doing that every day to see if a new moon had spawned in the territory.
2. Risk to Reward Ratio - Alliances will stop fighting over moons if they have a known hard limit on their potential profit. A month's dysprosium is worth 4.25 billion isk minus fuel and transport costs. That may sound like a lot, but nobody is going to be risking a 100 billion isk titan for a 4 billion isk possible payoff.
These problems need answers before this idea can move forward. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1151
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 12:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:I do habe a question, is there a reason why we cant Moon Mining in WH Space? Balance reasons I guess I would like to see limited moon mining made available in hi-sec though, with permits earned by running overhauled S&I missions. Mining could be via a deployable 'moon worm' if the usual mining arrays aren't an option. right, moon mining in wormholes before highsec, and thats not going to happen, so moon mining in highsec never. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2468
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 13:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elvamerc wrote:The solution: Make moon goo movable. By this I mean have the same amount of moons for everything you have now, but no matter what the moon goo is, make it decay after 30 days of mining. If there is a second mineral on the planet then that would decay also depending on if they were being mined one at a time or concurrently. The minerals in question would stay on that moon until it had been mined for a complete 30 day total.
Well, the problem is that I like having HACs not cost half a bil each.
also this:
Sigras wrote: 1. Moon scanning - If you've never done it before, I suggest you scan 200-300 moons every day for a month, because most alliances would need to employ several people doing that every day to see if a new moon had spawned in the territory.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have to go to work and don't have time to address the issues brought up. I will though later tonight. Any chance of an input from a Dev? |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2469
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Elvamerc wrote:I have to go to work and don't have time to address the issues brought up. I will though later tonight. Any chance of an input from a Dev?
Highly unlikely. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
505
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sigras wrote:moon goo that depletes may seem like a good idea at first but it is prone to a few problems that may not be immediately apparent.
1. Moon scanning - If you've never done it before, I suggest you scan 200-300 moons every day for a month, because most alliances would need to employ several people doing that every day to see if a new moon had spawned in the territory.
2. Risk to Reward Ratio - Alliances will stop fighting over moons if they have a known hard limit on their potential profit. A month's dysprosium is worth 4.25 billion isk minus fuel and transport costs. That may sound like a lot, but nobody is going to be risking a 100 billion isk titan for a 4 billion isk possible payoff.
These problems need answers before this idea can move forward. well, the moon mining IS an issue by itself, because it is what led to the current null sec status, wich is bad for the game imao.
the thing is that it is way too much imbalanced, whether in its distribution, or in the machanics itself ending up basically giving it to only a few.
i'd see a more radical solution:
get rid of it and replace the moongoo by mining, introducing new ores, and spreading them in a balanced way throught low and null.
no more top to bottom passive income, ppl need to work for their money, since null will be more gifted, than low (balance remember?), this will draw mining in null.
might make it harder for massive alliance to spread like currently because of less income (because yes, they are lazy, and even if potentially, they own the same amount of money, they will not gather it all).
the reason for not having those ore in high is obvious, for WH, i don't know WH much so open to critics on that |
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
505
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 14:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Elvamerc wrote:The solution: Make moon goo movable. By this I mean have the same amount of moons for everything you have now, but no matter what the moon goo is, make it decay after 30 days of mining. If there is a second mineral on the planet then that would decay also depending on if they were being mined one at a time or concurrently. The minerals in question would stay on that moon until it had been mined for a complete 30 day total. Well, the problem is that I like having HACs not cost half a bil each. also this: Sigras wrote: 1. Moon scanning - If you've never done it before, I suggest you scan 200-300 moons every day for a month, because most alliances would need to employ several people doing that every day to see if a new moon had spawned in the territory.
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I do habe a question, is there a reason why we cant Moon Mining in WH Space? Because from an economic perspective, CCP doesn't want more moon minerals on the market. It would devalue the already really low-value materials. Plus you can make the argument that if it were to happen, it should be c5-c6 only to allow capitals. It would be major passive income sources from places that can be extremely difficult to strike at, which is not the case with static high-value moons in kspace. actually, it is way easier to evict someone from a C5 or C6 than to take and hold a R64 for more than a week from any of the current holder |
Icewolf7
Anomalous Existence
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Should move it to a system like PI, maybe not moving moons, but the materials move around on the surface of the moon ;] |
Mala Marcelka
Appetite 4 Destruction
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 15:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
I feel like going back to the days of when there was no moon mining would be amazing, it would create tons of PVP in null and really put that risk back into making tons of isk. Moon mining in my opinion isnt really that risky with the size of these alliances in Null controlling majority of the high end moons. Honestly it's more risky in low-sec hauling the moon goo due to the potential to get bumped off station. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2285
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 16:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Icewolf7 wrote:Should move it to a system like PI, maybe not moving moons, but the materials move around on the surface of the moon ;] Passive Income, I mean PI is not exactly the best thing for the game and increasing the amount of passive income in the game would be bad.
Raw PI goods and Moon Goo should have trace amounts in different asteroids, maybe increased amounts in the "Junk" Asteroids. Raw PI goods would then have associated BPOs for the commodities. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
the nullsec answer to this will be to have a small tower with silo and harvester on EVERY moon, and to have a toon hop around once every few days and online all the towers in the system, check if theres anything worth mining, if not offline the tower again
this will take all of an hour per system per week. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2496
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote: actually, it is way easier to evict someone from a C5 or C6 than to take and hold a R64 for more than a week from any of the current holder
Depends on the "someone" you're evicting. I imagine that would also change if you actually did put those moons in there.
Although its also true that its way harder to defend a hole that you're not living in, which would necessarily be the case if major c5/6 groups tried to hold moons in several systems (i think?).
Of course, it could also turn w-space into a nap fest as everyone tries to control as many moons as possible with the only threats coming from other such moon-holders. But I'm not really up on w-space politics. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think most C5-C6's are held, already, and the problem is that the previous occupants if they were actually using the WH have a 'fff-ton of BM's all over the system - players already in system (until they get podded/trapped out), large volumes of assets already in system
in the hour that it takes you to put up a POS there - I would expect you to come up against some heavy resistance - even if they don't insta-wipe you out..... - all they need to do is destroy the fuel for the stick, and you've just erected a useless stick (iirc, you can't fuel the POS before it's anchored...) For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it WILL be. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2517
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I think most C5-C6's are held, already,
most of the 625 c5/c6 wormholes are already occupied? I think that's a bit far-fetched. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 02:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Okay finally made it off work and hopefully I can address some of the items brought up. A lot of this is my opinion and of course we have no way of knowing unless it actually happened.
Danika Princip
1) a) Danika as far a spiked T2 prices I'd expect some to up but if a specific item was going up too sharply then CCP could simply increase the number of spawning moons for that type of goo until it dropped. Vice Versa if an item was too low they could spawn less. b) I don't think a change such as this would make it "borderline impossible" to make isk. I actually think it would spread the wealth around. Instead of using large towers and 100 modules to go with it, moon mining would become small towers, quickly taken down and put up. So large reward for small risk and even if you only mined for 3 or 4 days you could pay back the pos quickly depending on what your mining. Most importantly you would have the same chance to mine Tech though as any other 1000 man alliance in the game.
c) Easy solution for lots of moons probing (which i have done before), make a new probe type. It can do system wide scans or one that u launch at a planet and it tells you how many rarities there are for that planets moons. So a 9 planet system would use 9 probes to get a complete read out. There are a million ways to do it up if CCP wanted to change it.
Lephia DeGrande
2) Adding Moon mining to WH's adds a rough time balancing T2 production prices. So doing a change like this AND adding WH goo would be brutal. Just adding WH's to the moon goo with out implementing these changes just means that the same alliance that hold moons now would eventually hold all the WH goo too.
Sigras
3) I already address the probing so I'll leave it alone. The risk V reward is understandable. No one wants to lose a titan for what could be 1 day, 5 days, or 30 days of mining. But that said I think that fact would work in favor of this change. I can plan all day long and eventually go RF big alliance POS having to use Scaps and Caps to do so only to have them show up with 500 people and 50 supers to protect their POS after RF timer. With this change though and the use of smaller POS's for quick set up and minimal risk anyone can go RF a moon pos with a minimal fleet and no ones going to bring a 300 people to protect a POS that's not worth much. Your actually more likely to get a better fight with conventional fleets more often.
Seth Hendar
4) Yes getting rid of moon goo would probably be a easy way to solve the distribution / imbalance issues but I'm thinking this way your average joe has an actual chance to make a profit and be involved in stuff that only the big alliances have had access to.
NCC 1709
5) Two things real quick. One if the towers were offline the silo's and harvesters for each would be vulnerable to die. Two this is why I love eve, every idea or new thing has someone who is trying to out think it an get ahead
Finally I'm not going to even address the posts on WH stuff / moon goo. Not people they weren't worthwhile posts or not welcome input but I've already mentioned in this post that I think this change would need to occur and be established before expanding in to WH's if it even ever did. Other than that if I missed something let me know.
o/
Elvamerc
|
Sigras
Conglomo
702
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 07:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
The problem is that 4 billion isk isnt actually all that much money ... especially for the most valuable moon in the game, and towers are cheap ... so cheap in fact you can make a moon mining tower for less isk than a single battleship costs, so you would make your isk back in less than a day for most towers.
This means that you wouldnt get better fights, you would get no fights at all. Moons would go from the most important thing in 0.0 to a trivial incidental thing over night.
Nobody is going to fight over 4 billion isk; especially if you factor in that on average the moons you'd potentially be fighting over would be half depleted meaning it's 2 billion isk... thats the cost of 10 fitted out battleships. In fact it wouldnt even be worth the risk to attack ... assuming you need to field more than 10 battleships to RF the tower in a reasonable amount of time.
I firmly believe that the answer lies in adding moon materials to ring mining, and moving the moon miners outside the shield bubble to allow them to be the target of small gang disruption. |
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
505
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 11:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Batelle wrote:seth Hendar wrote: actually, it is way easier to evict someone from a C5 or C6 than to take and hold a R64 for more than a week from any of the current holder
Depends on the "someone" you're evicting. I imagine that would also change if you actually did put those moons in there. Although its also true that its way harder to defend a hole that you're not living in, which would necessarily be the case if major c5/6 groups tried to hold moons in several systems (i think?). Of course, it could also turn w-space into a nap fest as everyone tries to control as many moons as possible with the only threats coming from other such moon-holders. But I'm not really up on w-space politics. i didn't said easy, i said easier.
the main reason being you will not face 70+ supers when the tower will exit RF.
indeed, there is no guaranteed success, but provided good intel and hard work, it can be done.
for R64, whatever the amount of intel and work, the moment the tower exit RF, you WILL face a substantial force composed of mainly supers, thus unless you are able to field more supers, you don't stand a chance, narrowing R64 holding to a very selected few entity that can becounted on one hand.
while invading a WH can be done with 200-300 ppl (including logi, probers, WH control etc....) provided they are motivated and well driven. sometime even less ppl.
a good timing on initial attack, and a very strict WH control being key to success, and your target entity, once **** caged, is able to only retaliate with limited force.
back on the topic, i think passive income is rather a bad thing for the game, especially the moongoo.
PI is less of an issue since it is more a player level work / income, so it cannot hold a massive empire by itself, unlike moongoo, where 10 R64 grant their owners ridiculous amount of isk (the best isk/month ingame) while requiring close to no work, wich is uterly ridicoulus and broken |
Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sigras wrote:The problem is that 4 billion isk isnt actually all that much money ... especially for the most valuable moon in the game, and towers are cheap ... so cheap in fact you can make a moon mining tower for less isk than a single battleship costs, so you would make your isk back in less than a day for most towers.
This means that you wouldnt get better fights, you would get no fights at all. Moons would go from the most important thing in 0.0 to a trivial incidental thing over night.
Nobody is going to fight over 4 billion isk; especially if you factor in that on average the moons you'd potentially be fighting over would be half depleted meaning it's 2 billion isk... thats the cost of 10 fitted out battleships. In fact it wouldnt even be worth the risk to attack ... assuming you need to field more than 10 battleships to RF the tower in a reasonable amount of time.
I firmly believe that the answer lies in adding moon materials to ring mining, and moving the moon miners outside the shield bubble to allow them to be the target of small gang disruption.
People fight over POCO's all the time and they aren't worth even close to 1 battleship. The nice thing about it is if you don't have the guys online or don't really care then you don't have to fight. I think you underestimating the ability for people to go out for good fights in conventional fleets rather than POS bashing another Large POS with supers while the previous owner just sits and watches in his cloaked ship. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
304
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thanks for the explanation about Moon Goo! |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
564
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
I used to be like you... so young and full of hope...
Now I actually have to deal with my (lowsec) alliance's moon mining. It sucks. Don't make it harder /o\ At least not until CCP finally scrap moon mining off POSs for ring mining or whatever pipe dream they were selling back when they thought they would actually overhaul POSs. (HINT HINT CCP) How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:I used to be like you... so young and full of hope...
Now I actually have to deal with my (lowsec) alliance's moon mining. It sucks. Don't make it harder /o\ At least not until CCP finally scrap moon mining off POSs for ring mining or whatever pipe dream they were selling back when they thought they would actually overhaul POSs. (HINT HINT CCP)
lol I know your pain, nothing like owning several towers and being the only guy in your corp (a past one) with a rorqual, JF, or anything helpful. Thank god CCP made the changes to fuel blocks so we don't have to sit and figure out the calculations for days like before.
No matter the change to moon goo, CCP needs to continue to streamline POS management within the game. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1191
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 00:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Better solution. Just remove Moon Goo & make it part of active player mining. Higher industrial index means more R64's available. Null Sec industrial anoms are obviously random grav clusters caused by temporary larange points. Which explains also why you have to mine them out to spawn a new one because the remaining rocks weak grav fields influence the system enough to stop a new one forming.
Change out ALL asteroid fields for similar anoms in high, low & WH space. Then introduce trace moon minerals in asteroids as well. With only the worst in high, mid in low & top ends in Null & WH space. Players who spend time in space at risk get rewards.
Then change up the POS system to give it some kind of strategic effect rather than a passive income effect. They have already started on this with the refining array bonuses. |
Kretan
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
To be honest I don't think there is a needed change to moon mining although there are things that could be added to make it better. Why not keep moon mining but add belts around the moon that show up as anoms and that can be mined by a player? Because moving moon mining to something the players have to actually mine by themselves adds time consuming task thats boring as hell (notice mining in general) and would increase the price of tech 2 modules that some people consider spendy enough.
Also to all the people that think hitting a R64 tower that is owned by a null sec power will automatically spawn supers on field when it comes out of reinforced your kidding yourself. My alliance has taken R64 from both PL and NCDOT without them even bothering to put up more then a token defense mainly pos gunners and the occasional low sec opportunist fleet wanting to try and take it from you. Then only thing that is keeping you from taking a high end moon is you and your fear of losing your ship.
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Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 00:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kretan wrote: Also to all the people that think hitting a R64 tower that is owned by a null sec power will automatically spawn supers on field when it comes out of reinforced your kidding yourself. My alliance has taken R64 from both PL and NCDOT without them even bothering to put up more then a token defense mainly pos gunners and the occasional low sec opportunist fleet wanting to try and take it from you. Then only thing that is keeping you from taking a high end moon is you and your fear of losing your ship.
1) Test Alliance meaning at one time you had 5000 and still have over 3600 now. You saying you can take R64's is exactly what I'm talking about. Large block alliances that simply trade R64's back and forth because they have the numbers and supers.
2) Lol yeah that's all that's keeping small corps from taking R64's is the fear of losing our ships. That's a comment made out of complete and utter ignorance. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
875
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 02:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Elvamerc wrote:Kretan wrote: Also to all the people that think hitting a R64 tower that is owned by a null sec power will automatically spawn supers on field when it comes out of reinforced your kidding yourself. My alliance has taken R64 from both PL and NCDOT without them even bothering to put up more then a token defense mainly pos gunners and the occasional low sec opportunist fleet wanting to try and take it from you. Then only thing that is keeping you from taking a high end moon is you and your fear of losing your ship.
1) Test Alliance meaning at one time you had 5000 and still have over 3600 now. You saying you can take R64's is exactly what I'm talking about. Large block alliances that simply trade R64's back and forth because they have the numbers and supers. 2) Lol yeah that's all that's keeping small corps from taking R64's is the fear of losing our ships. That's a comment made out of complete and utter ignorance.
No one throws supers around for R64s
You may see a few triage carriers.....maybe even a lot, but super fights over POSs usually only happen for fail jumps.
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Elvamerc
Appetite 4 Destruction
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 04:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Onictus wrote:
No one throws supers around for R64s
You may see a few triage carriers.....maybe even a lot, but super fights over POSs usually only happen for fail jumps.
Losing focus on the matter, the point is that TEST like alliances say it's no problem to make isk from them because they can drop a ton of triage carriers, plus have the pilots etc, / whatever your arguement is. What about the rest of 0.0 null sec corps? I was simply trying to brain storm a possible solution up before TEST alliance came in and said it was easy as long as you're not afraid.......lol. Easy to say that knowing how many R64's and deep pockets they have. |
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Sylviria
Unforeseen Consequences. The Unthinkables
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Better solution. Just remove Moon Goo & make it part of active player mining. Higher industrial index means more R64's available. Null Sec industrial anoms are obviously random grav clusters caused by temporary larange points. Which explains also why you have to mine them out to spawn a new one because the remaining rocks weak grav fields influence the system enough to stop a new one forming.
Change out ALL asteroid fields for similar anoms in high, low & WH space. Then introduce trace moon minerals in asteroids as well. With only the worst in high, mid in low & top ends in Null & WH space. Players who spend time in space at risk get rewards. Also means you no longer have 30-40 belts clustering up your overview, but a small number of grav sites, coincidentally concentrating miners meaning competition for resources as well as easier to find targets.
Then change up the POS system to give it some kind of strategic effect rather than a passive income effect. They have already started on this with the refining array bonuses.
I do like the idea of asteroid fields, after all, most of the moon goo materials are metals, which are made in the core of dying stars. Once those stars explode into a shiny supernova, they get scattered across the universe. All those minerals can end up in planets and moons. although, not all of them end up in there and can end up in asteroid belts aswell.
Adding, let's say, Titanium Asteroids, to regular 0.8 belts for example would stimulate the mining around this and make it part of an active income aswell instead of just passive. Although, there is a risk there will be a rise in the mineral market when miners are switching over to mining goo.
To compensate for the increase in goo availible in various asteroid belts, you could decrease the moon mining amount to let's say 80% of the current. Adding Dysprosium Asteroids to null-sec systems would also highly stimulate the mining activity in nullsec. And a lot of people are complaining about null-sec mining being not profitable enough compared to highsec in risk vs. reward.
R4: All sec status R8: 0.7 and lower R16: 0.5 and lower R32: 0.2 and lower R64: null-sec only
The downside is, that when you reduce the amount of moon goo you mine, anything under R32 is barely worth putting even a small tower on. It would take 1-2 months (depending on the type) before you earn that isk back, versus 2-3 weeks right now. Slightly increasing those prices and the T2 production costs.
Adding goo to WH space aswell would be a nice addition. It would be a logistical nightmare to get the goo out if you are not actually living in the WH itself. It would make towers in WH space of more use then just being staging/light production towers and would increase activity in WH's aswell, so when big powerhouses hold those moons, it would be an individual corp in that alliance, not being able to be backed up by the entire alliance. However, doing this would be a increase in goo on the market and lower prices.
Amount, numbers and locations will need a lot of balancing to make sure it doesn't disrupt the economy to much. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
876
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Posted - 2014.04.01 23:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Elvamerc wrote:Onictus wrote:
No one throws supers around for R64s
You may see a few triage carriers.....maybe even a lot, but super fights over POSs usually only happen for fail jumps.
Losing focus on the matter, the point is that TEST like alliances say it's no problem to make isk from them because they can drop a ton of triage carriers, plus have the pilots etc, / whatever your arguement is. What about the rest of 0.0 null sec corps? I was simply trying to brain storm a possible solution up before TEST alliance came in and said it was easy as long as you're not afraid.......lol. Easy to say that knowing how many R64's and deep pockets they have.
Hence TEST no longer effectively being a sov holding alliance. Take any advise with a grain f salt.
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Karma Anstian
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.04.03 06:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
I say no just on the grounds of how annoying/long it is to set up and take down a POS
Not to mention this doesnt make sense. Moons stay with their planets why would the material sporadically change?
This would also remove reasons for taking space. Having a rich region with good moons, is what can give incentive to corps to fight on your side. AKA Spoils of war. No one is going to fight a war if their spoils are going to be gone in a month.
Also theres nothing wrong with Large Alliances trading moons back and forth between wars. That's part of the war. If you want isk you got to risk for it. EvE isn't an "ok it's been a month now someone elses turn to do that please" type game. If you want those valuable moons you have to fight for them. if you dont want to fight 10000 man alliances, fight the smaller ones in Lowsec that also have some extremely valuable moons |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
19
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Posted - 2014.04.03 09:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
this would cause a lot of people to cry at the selling prices of t2 ships + more thanks to a push in the price so im pretty sure its going to end up as big no from people |
Laurie Wraithe
Dark Clown Federation Star Empire of Manticore
0
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Posted - 2014.04.06 00:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
While I think it would take a lot of effort to balance any change to moon goo, Elvamerc's suggestion or any of the others posted in this thread would be welcome.
It takes a lot of effort to truly survive in 0.0 as a small gang entity. Not just exist but actually survive and thrive. Would be nice to see this existence rewarded with an equal chance at things like moon goo. Instead of yet another big block alliance blob pushing aside the little guy.
With the ability for others besides large block alliances to control and actually make large amounts of isk off moon goo, it might actually give them the ability to get ahead and do things like start up ship replacement, buy capitals, buy supers, and therefore thrust themselves forward from small/medium corps to full sized entities who can fight. A change may just offer more ability for people to fight rather than just watch the massive blocks. |
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