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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Daimos Bellurdan
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Posted - 2006.05.06 08:54:00 -
[61]
Buffing Defender Missiles is a good idea, they are worthless right now. What I would like is: The defenders target ALL enemy missiles. Dedicated anti-missile ships would be the result. But I guess this would be a too big nerf vs Caldari.
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Lucian Corvinus
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Posted - 2006.05.06 09:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan Buffing Defender Missiles is a good idea, they are worthless right now. What I would like is: The defenders target ALL enemy missiles. Dedicated anti-missile ships would be the result. But I guess this would be a too big nerf vs Caldari.
naah don't worry, caldari can take it, they only want to boost the blasters, autocannons, artillery, tachyons and defenders, and nerf t2 missiles, nos and ecm, this doesn't hurt primarily caldari... no worries
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Agenor Deteis
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Posted - 2006.05.06 09:42:00 -
[63]
I agree with Meridius. What we need is a tracking disruptor for missiles, nothing more. Right now defenders need a missile slot but quite a few ships don't have them. Imballance If you're going to make special defender launchers, which just use a high slot Imballance (Where're more spare highs than spare mids)
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Lucian Corvinus
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Posted - 2006.05.06 09:47:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Agenor Deteis I agree with Meridius. What we need is a tracking disruptor for missiles, nothing more. Right now defenders need a missile slot but quite a few ships don't have them. Imballance If you're going to make special defender launchers, which just use a high slot Imballance (Where're more spare highs than spare mids)
A tracking disruptor is fine as long as the missiles users can make up for it. There is currently no module to increase fx. explosion velocity or decrease explosion radius.
turret users have tracking links, tracking enhancers and tracking computers to counter a tracking disruptor.
it is only fair that missile users got the same advantages if they introduced a tracking disruptor for missiles.
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Sebroth
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Posted - 2006.05.06 10:45:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jaeuhl Making it a dedicated mid slot would hurt a lot of ships that rely on this mids for tanking and/or even propulsion. Some ships have a hard enough time getting into range to be effective or trying to get out of range to avoid unpleasantries...forcing them to devote a mid slot for defenders would certainly favor one faction over another.
I don't see a lot of armor tankers sacrificing a cap recharger or webber for a dedicated defender slot except maybe in fleet pvp.
Yeah we have a BIG problem in eve and that problem is: WE HAVE TO DAMN FEW SLOTS.
I not only talking about midslots here we need all more of all types of slots NERF every module ingame buy reducing the effektivness by 50% give us 100% more slots and we will be able to fitt more types of modules at lower effectivness, If someone wants to be ganker anywhay he will still be able to be that att full strength (also need to change the stacking so it will alow 8 dmg mods ect)
CCP is giving us more and more modules an counter modules but we have no way to make our ships combat ready. Dont say that we are combat ready. In any logical world the builders of combat ship would decrese the power of one defence system to be able to counter more types of attacks if they would see the that the enemy was using more types of weapons.
But to the defenders. NO WAY I will use a midslot on my tempest as it is now just to make place for som defenders when only a small group of ships are using missiles at all. I will get a better result using a target disrupture/ecm at that place as long Im not out hunting ravens/caracals. And if I was not using NOS in my hi slots It will be more likely to be t2 cruise missile launchers or mayby a cloak.
We have target dis. and ecm that makes it harder for a singel ship to hit/lock his targets. I want a module/defenders that can be locked on to a target like the other modules and then hunt down the targets missiles (or try to hunt them down). The defenders need to be able to hunt them down, something that is almoste imposible atm but they dont need to be that powerfull. The posibility to protect your friends will be what defenders need to make them usefull.
// yeah I know my english sucks, so?? //
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kessah
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Posted - 2006.05.06 11:19:00 -
[66]
Yes tracking disruptors type thingies for missles is the way i believe also.
Prehaps sensor ghosting, it can go for 2 or more targets ofc that wont be seen to the players the missle will just go abit wonky, making the missle travel awhile longer before it hits its target, and ofc making a drop in dps and its flight time.
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http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur |
Kosakova Intrinnae
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Posted - 2006.05.06 11:25:00 -
[67]
i don't think a dedicated deffender slot is a good idea, when defenders were useful a year ago, no one was complaining.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.06 11:32:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kosakova Intrinnae i don't think a dedicated deffender slot is a good idea, when defenders were useful a year ago, no one was complaining.
thy never been usefull
Summertime - Campingtime!
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2006.05.06 13:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sebroth But to the defenders. NO WAY I will use a midslot on my tempest as it is now just to make place for som defenders when only a small group of ships are using missiles at all.
Listen, defenders never really worked, but were kind of thing you put on 8th slot on megathron. Mid slot module with same fitting reqs, and same effect as tracking disruptor is fair, because you have an option. As for how many people would fit one, well I maybe won't, but thats not the point. At least you can't be whining.
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Cade Morrigan
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Posted - 2006.05.06 13:27:00 -
[70]
Is it fact that Missiles have the same (or greater) DPS as guns of the same class? i.e. do Heavy Launchers have approximately the same DPS as cruiser class projectile turrets? Because if they don't and you introduce a new missile disruption mod, raw missile damage will need to be increased. -= Save the Gila! Fix its grid and cpu! =-
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Namarus
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Posted - 2006.05.06 13:54:00 -
[71]
Used to be cool when you could lock incoming missiles and shoot them down with guns.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.06 14:27:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan Buffing Defender Missiles is a good idea, they are worthless right now. What I would like is: The defenders target ALL enemy missiles. Dedicated anti-missile ships would be the result. But I guess this would be a too big nerf vs Caldari.
naah don't worry, caldari can take it, they only want to boost the blasters, autocannons, artillery, tachyons and defenders, and nerf t2 missiles, nos and ecm, this doesn't hurt primarily caldari... no worries
Yes, this feels a bit worrying. But i have faith it wont get as bad as it could...
--- The Eve Wiki Project |
ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2006.05.06 14:59:00 -
[73]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 06/05/2006 15:03:36 Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 06/05/2006 15:03:05 I don¦t like missile tracking disrupts, it may be the easiest to introduce balancing wise. But RP and SF-tech wise it doesn¦t make much sense.
Galente are Caldari¦s Nemesis so the obvious armsrace result would be for the Galente to introduce pointdefense Drones to counter Caldari missileswarms. Defender missiles should best go to the same place mines did.
P.S. 2 missilejocks, constant damage output over any range without having to worry about tracking ... find something else to whine about. _ Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦ Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Sebroth
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Posted - 2006.05.06 15:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Originally by: Sebroth But to the defenders. NO WAY I will use a midslot on my tempest as it is now just to make place for som defenders when only a small group of ships are using missiles at all.
Listen, defenders never really worked, but were kind of thing you put on 8th slot on megathron. Mid slot module with same fitting reqs, and same effect as tracking disruptor is fair, because you have an option. As for how many people would fit one, well I maybe won't, but thats not the point. At least you can't be whining.
Yeah and if you read that one more time?
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.05.06 15:26:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Benglada I can honestly say i have never seen a defender fired in the last four months of PvPing, Isnt that a sign?
Yeah. I'm not saying defenders don't need a boost, just that they should have the same drawbacks to use as tracking disruptors and not be usable in just any old launcher.
one tracking disruptor or 1 target jammer will negate ALL turrets on a target one laucher with defenders, even if it has the rof of a rocketlauncher will hardly take out all missles of a volley
i can see the balance right there, one is fire and forget, and takes out a percentage of the incoming missiles. the other require active difrection (target) and takes out all turrets...
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Dragy
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Posted - 2006.05.06 15:41:00 -
[76]
i know that its a bad idea, but maybe the turrent users should have something like this 2. add special ammo that will kill incoming missiles. and maybe it would be good to create special drones that set a beautiful forcefield (like in hw cata) that would stop everything (would need to kill drones)
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Fusaiyuki
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Posted - 2006.05.06 16:31:00 -
[77]
While we're at it can we stop NPC rats using defenders quite so much? It's fine when fighting Serp blasterthons etc but when trying to hit Serp BSes at 50km I find that 3/6 of my cruise missiles are being shot down before they can reach the target. This is a little harsh considering that turret users get none of this at all...
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ragewind
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Posted - 2006.05.06 16:37:00 -
[78]
stop it now all the ideas make no real sence.
a turet disruper works on the ship its self and afects it as a whole as the turets are controled by the ship and its systems.
a missile has its own guidence system so when its launched it tracks its "pre locked target"
FOF have even more indiependent control so they can even find there own targets.
a tracking disrupter works on the launching ship and would logically have no afect on a missile that has been launched as it has its own AI.
defenders are an option but i fail to see how it can gain a lock on missile when locking a ship takes loger than the missile travel time.
a better system may be some forp of caff or flak type defence. or ythey could just leave it as i havent seen the current missiles being over balanced really preticually with teh current caldari speeds and monuveriabilty of there ships being so bod ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
ragewind
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Posted - 2006.05.06 16:42:00 -
[79]
Quote: one tracking disruptor or 1 target jammer will negate ALL turrets on a target one laucher with defenders, even if it has the rof of a rocketlauncher will hardly take out all missles of a volley
i can see the balance right there, one is fire and forget, and takes out a percentage of the incoming missiles. the other require active difrection (target) and takes out all turrets...
yes turrets are guided by the ship afect the ship afect the turrets all of them. missiels have AI so when they ship has a traget lock they have a targe so sfecting the ship dose jack.
there is a counter to missile ships its called ecm it works very well as i have found when rats have used them giveing me all kinds of greef ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Sebroth
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Posted - 2006.05.06 18:01:00 -
[80]
Originally by: ragewind
Quote: one tracking disruptor or 1 target jammer will negate ALL turrets on a target one laucher with defenders, even if it has the rof of a rocketlauncher will hardly take out all missles of a volley
i can see the balance right there, one is fire and forget, and takes out a percentage of the incoming missiles. the other require active difrection (target) and takes out all turrets...
yes turrets are guided by the ship afect the ship afect the turrets all of them. missiels have AI so when they ship has a traget lock they have a targe so sfecting the ship dose jack.
there is a counter to missile ships its called ecm it works very well as i have found when rats have used them giveing me all kinds of greef
THB I dont see that they have a completly independant AI. If I have a raven sending missiles at me and I blow that raven up the missiles that are still in space vill not hit me. That means that the missiles dont have a independant AI, they need the info about the target from the ship. Many of the todays missiles are 100% or partly controled from somewere else. Now I dont want to see a missile tracking disruptor tho so some sort or change one the current system using defenders will be better. But then every ship has to have 1 launcher slot.
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Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:03:00 -
[81]
While a tracking disruptor would probably work...I think it would take away from the feel and style of the game. I say just fix the defenders to do something useful.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:27:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Grey Area on 06/05/2006 19:31:30 The whole concept of defender missiles or ANY defence system that targets the missiles is fundamentally flawed. It means that players will always complain that it is not effective enough, as it will be massively LESS effective at short range.
The initial premise is wrong...the defence system targets the missile. It should be the other way around...you launch a decoy, and incoming missiles are forced to target the decoy instead of your ship - to the point where the decoy is destroyed.
This would be better because;
1. The decoy would have the same effectiveness at all ranges 2. The attacking player could target the decoy and fire OTHER weapons at it to reduce it's lifespan 3. Other players could target the decoy 4. The decoy would affect ALL missiles targetted at the defending ship - even if they were from multiple attacking ships. 5. The decoy would have similar effectiveness against all missile types - if it was a small sig radius target, then the maximum damage a missile could do to it would be limited - meaning it would not be wiped out by a single torp, as the Torp would do only limited damage to it. 6. The decoy would affect all incoming missile output of a ship - the same as the tracking disrupter does. (note - I'd actually make a tracking disrupter a hi-slot module, and the decoy launcher the same)
Launching the decoy should have negative effects on the defending ship - a limited speed (25% of maximum) for example - I would like to see this be a CHOSEN limit - i.e not just reducing your ships top speed from 1000 to 250, but instead ALLOWING you to travel over 250 is you chose, but the missiles would then target you and not the decoy.
Missiles would not re-aquire targets...thus if a missile was launched and the decoy was active, but the decoy was destroyed before the missile reached it, the missile would NOT reaquire the ship as a target. This makes single firing the missiles rather than salvo firing them more attractive.
I am sure there are other features that should be part of this, but I do really think the principle of a decoy rather than a defence is the way to go.
I have over 10 million skill points in missiles - so don't be mistaken in thinking that I hate missiles - this just seems more sensible to me is all.
One last idea...it would be a good idea if using a missile defence (or decoy) system made you more vulnerable to turrets, and vice versa...that would make fleet battles far more interesting.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:31:00 -
[83]
Soo...
EDM, Extended Drive Missile
This is a missile which you can fire from various launchers*, and it makes a certain percentage of missiles miss you and detonate early and harmlessly, when they think they've "reached" you.
(*not rocket launchers or siege)
Light: 20%. 7.5s duration. Heavy: 25%. 10s duration Cruise: 30%. 10s duration.
Torpedoes which detonate early do 50% of their damage anyway.
However, this missile makes your sig radius 5% larger while it is being used.
That's my idea along those lines..
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:34:00 -
[84]
crocodile tears for missle user. Maybe its time they're taken down a few notches. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Natsuki
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:42:00 -
[85]
Just delete defenders altogether and add in missile tracking disrupters/computers. -----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai RAWRRR!!!11 Sig Hijack - Imaran
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:44:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Natsuki Just delete defenders altogether and add in missile tracking disrupters/computers.
OK. Now explain what aspect of missiles these units will actually AFFECT...missiles don't have a "tracking" variable...
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Frezik
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:47:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Kosakova Intrinnae i don't think a dedicated deffender slot is a good idea, when defenders were useful a year ago, no one was complaining.
thy never been usefull
I disagree. Before the missile changes, a Rifter with 2xdefender launchers could completely shut down any kestral 1v1. 1xlaunchers could hold them at bay until the defenders needed to be reloaded. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.05.06 19:55:00 -
[88]
Decoy Launcher - Hi Slot
Small - for frigates Medium - for cruisers Large - for BS's
Decoy Ammo Small - 250 points damage taken Medium - 500 pounts damage taken Large - 1000 points damage taken
Sig radius of decoy is same as launching ship, though most of it is electronic noise. Sig radius rules affect missile hits as normal. Decoys do not move, so no reduction for speed is possible.
And now here's a thought that TRULY balances - if it's a targetting decoy, then it draws fire equally from missiles OR turrets. Can't get nore balanced than that! Once the decoy is gone, you have to wait 30 seconds to launch another (the launcher doesn't deactivate until it's first decoy is destroyed, then it has a 30 seconds cycle time - this means you can only ever have one decoy.
For the firing player, they should see a big red "D" on their targetting display for any ship that has an active decoy. Targetting a decoy separately would therefore not be necessary - anyone who fires at the controlling player will automatcially fire at the decoy whilst it is active.
Unlike other weapons, the decoy launcher and it's ammo are "throwaway" weapons - you cannot buy "decoy launcher ammo", it comes prefitted in the launcher - once the launcher is empty, you have to buy a new one (this is to stop people just launching a cargo hold full of decoys which I think would be VERY boring!)
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
4 LOM
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Posted - 2006.05.06 20:32:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
naah don't worry, caldari can take it, they only want to boost the blasters, autocannons, artillery, tachyons and defenders, and nerf t2 missiles, nos and ecm, this doesn't hurt primarily caldari... no worries
I like how no one listened to this post, perhpas we should wait till all the other changes come in before we lay down uber nerfs on caldari (we are not as overpowerd as everyone thinks, look at fleet ops how many caldari ships are there?) Just settle down and wait for all the other changes first then see where caldari ships and weapons systems are, before you nerf us all to hell.
Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
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Natsuki
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Posted - 2006.05.06 20:34:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Natsuki Just delete defenders altogether and add in missile tracking disrupters/computers.
OK. Now explain what aspect of missiles these units will actually AFFECT...missiles don't have a "tracking" variable...
Precision and flight time. -----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai RAWRRR!!!11 Sig Hijack - Imaran
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