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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
89
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Posted - 2014.04.07 20:47:00 -
[271] - Quote
Patrick Yaa wrote: The Hulk is (supposed to be) the king of the yield. With the new changes he will burn through the crystals even faster and therefore needs to have more crystals at his convenience. On the other hand : The Hulk is a fleet-ship. It should be flown in a fleet for support and protection. In Hi-Sec that's no problem, with an Orca in the belt and bam--> Crystal support. In Null you can have people drop a can beside your ship, if you don't want an Orca with you in the belt. Though I would also vote for a crystal bay, since I'm a lazy ass. Why do you say the hulk is a fleet ship? If I were a Goon carebear, mining my little bee heart out in RG9-7U, why the bloody hell should I have to fly in a fleet? I'm a Goon, and RG9 is about as far away as one can possibly be from anything even remotely non-blue (not counting roaming fleets from wormholes). Sure, having an Orca or Rorqual (or even someone in a linked-up battle cruiser or command ship) booster would be helpful, but if I'm the so-called king of yield then my ship should be entirely capable of just sitting there and turning a belt of rocks into massive amounts of ready-to-melt ore. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for having a small ore bay, because the job of the hulk is not to *move* those minerals to the refinery, but to *get them ready* for one. However, anything that takes away from being able to mix and match crystals on an ad-hoc basis reduces the ability to function as the "king of yield" and is therefore antithetical to the role designated. |
Vhelnik Cojoin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2014.04.07 21:50:00 -
[272] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:guessing from the lack of blue post in here this thread is more of a "this is what we're doing, regardless" than a "here's an idea, what do you think?" post. Let us just hope the 2.1% here and ~10% they nibble off our income potential over *there*, are subject to stacking penalties... |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
263
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:07:00 -
[273] - Quote
Patrick Yaa wrote: Why would you want a Mining Carrier, since you obivously don't live in null. And even if, you can't take anything that slow into the belts/anoms, because it is a gank waiting to happen...
Not a carrier but a Drone boat something like let's say myrmidon or prophecy scale with ability to have new tier of "Fighter size" graded mining drones (which will require more skills of course, as you know some ores are bigger then other hence less is mined per trip).
The idea is to have a ship which is kinda like "Mother Bee" that launches her small worker drones to mine an asteroid.. 1 drone per rock.
It will be different experience from what we have now as even best mining drone boat bonus'ed with most sexy fit for drone yield will mine less then T1 strip miner cycle and that's a shame. Currently drone mining is kinda secondary only to boost a bit your yield.
Also a bonus of drones is that you need no mining crystals and you don't need to sit in "15-20 km range" to get the rocks you just sit in the middle of the belt send the drones and call it a day.
Thing here is try different types of mining instead classic lock > laser > harvest. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
396
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Posted - 2014.04.07 23:43:00 -
[274] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Patrick Yaa wrote: Why would you want a Mining Carrier, since you obivously don't live in null. And even if, you can't take anything that slow into the belts/anoms, because it is a gank waiting to happen...
Not a carrier but a Drone boat something like let's say myrmidon or prophecy scale with ability to have new tier of "Fighter size" graded mining drones (which will require more skills of course, as you know some ores are bigger then other hence less is mined per trip). The idea is to have a ship which is kinda like "Mother Bee" that launches her small worker drones to mine an asteroid.. 1 drone per rock. It will be different experience from what we have now as even best mining drone boat bonus'ed with most sexy fit for drone yield will mine less then T1 strip miner cycle and that's a shame. Currently drone mining is kinda secondary only to boost a bit your yield. Also a bonus of drones is that you need no mining crystals and you don't need to sit in "15-20 km range" to get the rocks you just sit in the middle of the belt send the drones and call it a day. Thing here is try different types of mining instead classic lock > laser > harvest. Hell, just use regular mining drones with bonuses to mining amount and drone speed. might even be a decent bonus to give to the hulk. |
Potions Master
GearBunny
2
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:08:00 -
[275] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1os33ZVJKyRfG3GY3taX0Se25dlTbNOoCLHprP7WoRKQ/edit#gid=205270633
You can compare the m3/minute of each of the barges at max skill, max yield fit. . (Ignoring player skills other than ship skills. but those will apply evenly) Nice. I've created a sheet to fool around with. To change skills and such, a copy (google drive or xlsx download) is required, as usual. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgZ5pxoOlog1dG9ERG41aVh6am1IYm1MTVNvVExSSVE
Does this take into account the boost pilot's skill with the Orca and Rorqual? I don't see a place to specify that... (also missing the mining implants, some folks might want that too) |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
212
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Posted - 2014.04.08 00:37:00 -
[276] - Quote
Maybe you could update the Mastries Tab while you are @ it. The LVL V specs are ridiculous on the different ORE vessels. |
Jamie Clark
Zeonic Federation The Void Mandate
1
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Posted - 2014.04.08 03:04:00 -
[277] - Quote
how about a little more PWG and cpu for the hulk so it can fit a small tank and or a little bit more shields, becasue it has the same pwg as the Mackinaw but also has to fit 1 more strip miner. |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like Free Entertainment
164
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Posted - 2014.04.08 05:31:00 -
[278] - Quote
Potions Master wrote:Darkblad wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1os33ZVJKyRfG3GY3taX0Se25dlTbNOoCLHprP7WoRKQ/edit#gid=205270633
You can compare the m3/minute of each of the barges at max skill, max yield fit. . (Ignoring player skills other than ship skills. but those will apply evenly) Nice. I've created a sheet to fool around with. To change skills and such, a copy (google drive or xlsx download) is required, as usual. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgZ5pxoOlog1dG9ERG41aVh6am1IYm1MTVNvVExSSVE Does this take into account the boost pilot's skill with the Orca and Rorqual? I don't see a place to specify that... (also missing the mining implants, some folks might want that too) Sadly not. Implants (Highwall and Michi's) plus Boost skills (which would affect Cycle Time) are not included - yet EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
ALI Virgo
hirr RAZOR Alliance
88
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Posted - 2014.04.08 13:23:00 -
[279] - Quote
Since your cutting shield and yield bonus on mack give it more ore cargo |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11059
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Posted - 2014.04.08 13:47:00 -
[280] - Quote
ALI Virgo wrote:Since your cutting shield and yield bonus on mack give it more ore cargo
Nope.
both the ret and the mac should have their tanks reduced to the same as the covetor and hulk. This would give people a reason to fly the procurer and skiff solo in high sec and reduce the drawbacks of the cov and hulk somewhat. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Rahh Serves
Collective Industrial Confederation Silent Forge
3
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:36:00 -
[281] - Quote
the tank is low enough i hate it if my mack gets blown up from 4-5 destroyers while i m fitting only tank no yield
and the ore bay on the procurer is to low that i cant mine without hauler its simply to ineffective |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11067
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:49:00 -
[282] - Quote
Rahh Serves wrote:the tank is low enough i hate it if my mack gets blown up from 4-5 destroyers while i m fitting only tank no yield
and the ore bay on the procurer is to low that i cant mine without hauler its simply to ineffective
Thats the idea. Each barge has drawbacks, each barge does a different job well.
The problem is that the ret and mack have been too good. There isn't a reason to use a cov/hulk because the ret/mack had a bigger hold, not too shabby yield and a better tank. There also isn't a real reason to use a skiff over a mack in high sec either because the mack can fit a good enough tank to see off most threats.
We said two years ago that the mack and ret were too good, we shouldn't make the same mistake again. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1253
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 20:02:00 -
[283] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:ALI Virgo wrote:Since your cutting shield and yield bonus on mack give it more ore cargo Nope. both the ret and the mac should have their tanks reduced to the same as the covetor and hulk. This would give people a reason to fly the procurer and skiff solo in high sec and reduce the drawbacks of the cov and hulk somewhat.
Wwwwwwasasaaaaahhhhhhh
I want easy ganks... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1076
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Posted - 2014.04.08 20:23:00 -
[284] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Rahh Serves wrote:the tank is low enough i hate it if my mack gets blown up from 4-5 destroyers while i m fitting only tank no yield
and the ore bay on the procurer is to low that i cant mine without hauler its simply to ineffective Thats the idea. Each barge has drawbacks, each barge does a different job well. The problem is that the ret and mack have been too good. There isn't a reason to use a cov/hulk because the ret/mack had a bigger hold, not too shabby yield and a better tank. There also isn't a real reason to use a skiff over a mack in high sec either because the mack can fit a good enough tank to see off most threats. We said two years ago that the mack and ret were too good, we shouldn't make the same mistake again. II'm going to disagree with this purely on the merits that there is no reason why a solo miner would have no interest in fitting to deter gankers. I'll agree that that yield may have it out of place, but the tank isn't what needs to be reduced to bring it into balance.
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1253
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Posted - 2014.04.08 20:44:00 -
[285] - Quote
I mine and I always fit for tank, for obvious reasons given the state of highsec these days. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
PrettyMuch Always Right
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.04.08 21:43:00 -
[286] - Quote
The hulk needs it's ore bay increased by 500m3 to be at all viable as an ice mining vessel. There are literally no hulks in ice belts because of this. You can increase the yield all you want; no one wants to jetcan, Orca transfer, or dock up every 2 cycles.
Also, to those saying a Mack can be used currently in the same role as the Skiff: No. I've heard this argument from a many Mack pilots before. They link me their fits and it's absolutely perfect. By the end of the month, some gank group has still killed them. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
81
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Posted - 2014.04.08 22:48:00 -
[287] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We said two years ago that the mack and ret were too good, we shouldn't make the same mistake again.
then the current barge situation is entirely the fault of the goons. if they had of treated the mack like the domi and flown it large numbers, CCP would have noticed sooner and taken corrective action against something so demonstratively over powered. eh Baltec1? |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
89
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Posted - 2014.04.09 03:54:00 -
[288] - Quote
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:The hulk needs it's ore bay increased by 500m3 to be at all viable as an ice mining vessel. There are literally no hulks in ice belts because of this. You can increase the yield all you want; no one wants to jetcan, Orca transfer, or dock up every 2 cycles. I didn't care about having to dump to a can every other cycle when I last lived in deep null, but then again, this was pre-nerf when I could slap MLU2's in the lows and rig for cargo, ending up with just enough space for two full cycles plus a nearly full compliment of crystals (I usually left out plagio and spod, mostly because I hate plagio, and spod takes a fleet all its own). |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11079
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 04:26:00 -
[289] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:baltec1 wrote:ALI Virgo wrote:Since your cutting shield and yield bonus on mack give it more ore cargo Nope. both the ret and the mac should have their tanks reduced to the same as the covetor and hulk. This would give people a reason to fly the procurer and skiff solo in high sec and reduce the drawbacks of the cov and hulk somewhat. Wwwwwwasasaaaaahhhhhhh I want easy ganks...
We still have easy ganks, most miners refuse to fit tanks still. The issue here is that the hulk and cov are outclassed in too many areas by the mack and ret while the procuror and skiff are unneeded because the mack and ret provide enough tank to see off gankers looking for profit. In the case of the mack it can do this while also getting a good yield.
This is about getting people to want to fly all the barges rather than just the ret and mack. The last change simply swapped king hulk for king mack/ret. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11079
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 04:28:00 -
[290] - Quote
GetSirrus wrote:baltec1 wrote:We said two years ago that the mack and ret were too good, we shouldn't make the same mistake again. then the current barge situation is entirely the fault of the goons. if they had of treated the mack like the domi and flown it large numbers, CCP would have noticed sooner and taken corrective action against something so demonstratively over powered. eh Baltec1? could have called it "mynnna fleet".
We dont have to, 80%+ of miners are in the ret and mack. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Tramar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.04.09 08:56:00 -
[291] - Quote
More bad balancing for the sake of bad balancing.
CCP created that disbalance themselves and continue to go the wrong way. First they nearly removed the gap between the t1 and t2 (basicly giving Exhumers 5 a finger). And then someone though instead of giving barges roles to make them mine nearly the same amount with different ore bays. Ofc people will go for the barge with the biggest ore bay, because they all mine nearly the same. Buffing Skiffs to mine the same amount as macks is the wrong way to go. To make people choose their ships you have to give roles, simple, like: 1) Good defence, but mines noticeably less. 2) Average all arounder 3) Mining machine but needs a hauler and a little protection.
Or anything else, but not making them nearly the same in terms of profit.
This whole rebalance is based on a flawed idea to begin with and will fail yet again. |
FaulEnza N00bist
The Squad Yulai Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.04.09 10:21:00 -
[292] - Quote
Zakarumit CZ wrote:I really hope this isnt an April fools joke, as those changes seems actually very well thought and could bring in a lot of additional fun and pvp into low sec and wormholes.
For gods sake and 1000 times more: WHY??? Let the miner do their mining (they love it, do it, need it, whatever), its necessary to the economy. Ganking a miner isn't PvP, it's bullshit. They are easy prey for kids with no balls to engage a real opponent. Force them to PvP and you will end in a silent room.... that sounds fun |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11090
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 13:57:00 -
[293] - Quote
FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:I really hope this isnt an April fools joke, as those changes seems actually very well thought and could bring in a lot of additional fun and pvp into low sec and wormholes. For gods sake and 1000 times more: WHY??? Let the miner do their mining (they love it, do it, need it, whatever), its necessary to the economy. Ganking a miner isn't PvP, it's bullshit. They are easy prey for kids with no balls to engage a real opponent. Force them to PvP and you will end in a silent room.... that sounds fun
You are playing the wrong game. Miners will never be exempt from pvp in this pvp focused game. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
PhatController
Mum Rider Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 14:08:00 -
[294] - Quote
I like most of these changes, but there is still some more that could be done.
The only change I don't like is the loss of a mid on Proc.
The hulk could still use some work, basically the same stuff already posted, needs a slight bigger cargo for crystals, and either needs a bigger tank to start with, or needs fitting issues looked at to be able to fit a reasonable tank. It also possibly still needs a bigger yield increase over the other exhumers.
Also, anyone run the number on hulks max range with with new changes with Orca boosts and Harvester implant set? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1259
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 16:13:00 -
[295] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:I really hope this isnt an April fools joke, as those changes seems actually very well thought and could bring in a lot of additional fun and pvp into low sec and wormholes. For gods sake and 1000 times more: WHY??? Let the miner do their mining (they love it, do it, need it, whatever), its necessary to the economy. Ganking a miner isn't PvP, it's bullshit. They are easy prey for kids with no balls to engage a real opponent. Force them to PvP and you will end in a silent room.... that sounds fun You are playing the wrong game. Miners will never be exempt from pvp in this pvp focused game.
No one is asking for miners to be exempt from pvp in this pvp game. Ganking a mining barge is however so one sided as fail the pvp test.
A clue is in the name (player vs player).
With the exception of the procurer/skiff a mining barge has no real tank and mobility and no easy way to avoid a gank or even fight back. Therefore there's no player vs player contest here.
Up the tank on all of the barges and allow some offensive weapons to be added to the hulls and you might have a point. However I predict that if mining barges could fight back, be tougher or move/align faster than they wouldn't get ganked.
This says more about the nature of gankers than it does about miners.
Gankers are the game's real carebears... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2858
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 16:38:00 -
[296] - Quote
let's ruin the thread with 'miners versus gankers' garbage |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11093
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 17:51:00 -
[297] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:baltec1 wrote:FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:I really hope this isnt an April fools joke, as those changes seems actually very well thought and could bring in a lot of additional fun and pvp into low sec and wormholes. For gods sake and 1000 times more: WHY??? Let the miner do their mining (they love it, do it, need it, whatever), its necessary to the economy. Ganking a miner isn't PvP, it's bullshit. They are easy prey for kids with no balls to engage a real opponent. Force them to PvP and you will end in a silent room.... that sounds fun You are playing the wrong game. Miners will never be exempt from pvp in this pvp focused game. No one is asking for miners to be exempt from pvp in this pvp game. Ganking a mining barge is however so one sided as fail the pvp test. A clue is in the name (player vs player). With the exception of the procurer/skiff a mining barge has no real tank and mobility and no easy way to avoid a gank or even fight back. Therefore there's no player vs player contest here. Up the tank on all of the barges and allow some offensive weapons to be added to the hulls and you might have a point. However I predict that if mining barges could fight back, be tougher or move/align faster than they wouldn't get ganked. This says more about the nature of gankers than it does about miners. Gankers are the game's real carebears... Edit: If I undock in a mining barge I am taking a real risk that someone may blow me up. If you and your pals undock in a squad of catalysts and visit a belt with the intention of ganking, what do you risk exactly? ******* carebears flying cats...
I dont want to turn this into a gankers vs bears thread, my arguments are to do with making the other barges viable and not having just two barges being used by near everyone.
In answer to you, the gank cats risk getting attacked by anyone and are ironically, profitable to gank. PvP is player vs player, it doesn't matter how one sided it is, it is still pvp. You might not like it but others do. Now, realistically, the only threat a high sec miner will ever face is from said gankers. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
PhatController
Mum Rider Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 18:10:00 -
[298] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Mostly good changes except for the proc mid slot change, I fit procurers for tank not yield, which was their intended function. The covertor/hulk needs some love. How about making them battle cruiser in size and allowing them to fit warfare links whilst mining, it would be a good stepping stone to an orca.
It's called an Orca. |
PhatController
Mum Rider Alliance
54
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Posted - 2014.04.09 18:14:00 -
[299] - Quote
The Ironfist wrote:CCP Fozzie how about adding faction Mining & Ice Mining upgrades to bring mining in line with gun based PVE activities? Plus it would add some value to the ORE LP Store which would go a long way because for the longest time ORE LP have been worth nothing.
There are, ORE Strip miner, ORE Ice Harvester etc etc.
Also ORE LP is some of the most valuable, not worst. You can get 10K plus per LP. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1260
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 18:28:00 -
[300] - Quote
PhatController wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Mostly good changes except for the proc mid slot change, I fit procurers for tank not yield, which was their intended function. The covertor/hulk needs some love. How about making them battle cruiser in size and allowing them to fit warfare links whilst mining, it would be a good stepping stone to an orca. It's called an Orca.
stepping stone to an orca...
Learn to read... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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