Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 07:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hakera on 06/05/2006 07:44:37
Question, what do the following modules have in common,
Scan Probe Launcher Interdiction Sphere launcher Seige Module Warfare Links Covert Ops Cloaks
Answer - they are all modules required by specialist ships to make them special, all but one are freely availible on the open market as T1 items.
The problem - cloaks are not, cloaks are at all levels of production have only a handful of bpo's. Not only that, but the covert ops is a T2 class item unlike the others. Demand in eve for the module (a required module to make recons or covert ops frigs special) has skyrocketed.
Solution - redo the cloaks into 3 T1 versions, however make covert ops frigates/recons only able to warp with them whilst cloaked instead of the attribute being attached to the module but the ship this time.
In their current distrubiution format, cloaks are an experiment gone wrong when t2 distrubution was first being tested. They are an exception to the rule which is placing an unneccessary and unfair stranglehold on recon/covert pilots in comparison to the specialist modules of other ships. The bpo owners have more than had their slice of cake and this issue needs remedying for the other 99.99999% of eve players.
The lack of communication from CCP is worrying at this stage months after the issue started to become an 'urgent fix case' but then many would say that about t2 distrubution itself and certain must have modules in eve.
|
Sarleena
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 07:47:00 -
[2]
I think covert ops cloaks are pretty much fine as is, but I would love to see prototype cloak BPOs seeded and their build requirements reduced to normal tech 1 build materials instead of requiring a bunch of tech 2 build materials just to build a tech 1 item. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the oth |
Halunoto Vankaalen
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 08:27:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sarleena I think covert ops cloaks are pretty much fine as is
Uh, do you have any idea how much the price for a Covert Ops Cloak II has jumped in the past three months?
-----
Disembarkation Room |
Kai Lae
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 08:36:00 -
[4]
Or improved cloaks. As it currently stands, in order to outfit a stealth bomber the way it was designed to be used, you must use a 20m-25m module on it. The bomber itself costs about 8m. In other words, a combat ship (aka, actually designed to get fired at) must use a module that costs 2-3x what the ship itself costs to achieve maximum efficiency. This is one of the biggest issues that stealths face atm. Raptor and Ares Fix |
Deva Blackfire
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 09:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Halunoto Vankaalen Uh, do you have any idea how much the price for a Covert Ops Cloak II has jumped in the past three months?
Ummm if you have brains one cloak will be enough for your EVE lifetime...
|
Jacinto Naysmith
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 09:19:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jacinto Naysmith on 06/05/2006 09:19:59 I finished training for covert ops ships then moved. A month latter once I had internet again, I found that the price of covert ops cloaks had doubled and the cloak was already more expensive then the ship prior to that.
This is really quite absurd.
|
Syrec
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 09:52:00 -
[7]
The truth of the matter is that there is a price syndicate/monopoly on Covert Ops II cloaks.
|
Hakera
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 10:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Hakera on 06/05/2006 10:46:18
Originally by: Syrec The truth of the matter is that there is a price syndicate/monopoly on Covert Ops II cloaks.
stating the obvious really isnt the issue, it's to do with how a must have module for a ship to function is so lacking in supply. If ships to function require modules, they shouldnt be limited as much as cloaks have been, cloaks are the exception to what has happened on any other required module listed above. Simply put they shouldn't be. Seeding more bpo's would not solve the issue either, it must come from a deeper change to way ship and cloak module bonuses work as well as how they are made (return all cloak modules to T1 production requirements)
|
Forsch
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 11:08:00 -
[9]
The price for a covert cloak is really insane currently. I was training up for covertops but this really put me off. It might have worked with covert frigs being the only one to use them. True, they should not die if you are careful and then a big investment is not such a problem. But recon ships are actually used in combat and die in combat. The demand for covert cloaks has risen so much since the introduction of these ships. Something has to be done.
The solution don't buy it if you don't want to spend that much is really a sucky one. Why should part of the content be denied to the average player just so a few can get insanely rich without much effort? This is an issue of the whole tech2 system but in the case of the covert cloak, it's extreme.
Forsch Defender of the empire
Micro Smartbombs - make them useful |
Halunoto Vankaalen
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 11:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Ummm if you have brains one cloak will be enough for your EVE lifetime...
So why should people pay upwards of 40-50 million for one when that's clearly an inflated price out of control?
-----
Disembarkation Room |
|
Ginaz
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 11:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Halunoto Vankaalen Uh, do you have any idea how much the price for a Covert Ops Cloak II has jumped in the past three months?
Ummm if you have brains one cloak will be enough for your EVE lifetime...
Have you ever flown a cov ops for scouting? Have you ever flown a recon for pvp in small fleets or solo? Guess not
|
Shinnen
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 11:44:00 -
[12]
aye, cov ops cloaks go a long way, but they are not ever-lasting
5km spheres are a biatch :@
Shinnen ------------------
|
Deva Blackfire
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 11:48:00 -
[13]
Quote: Have you ever flown a cov ops for scouting? Have you ever flown a recon for pvp in small fleets or solo? Guess not
Umm yes and yes? Im using Pilgrim lately almost non-stop (if not flying Heretic).
And never lost my anathema (since... 6months?)
|
Cpt Hoock
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 12:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shinnen aye, cov ops cloaks go a long way, but they are not ever-lasting
5km spheres are a biatch :@
5km spheres i was thinking that they where 20km or am i missing something here ?
|
Jacinto Naysmith
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 12:03:00 -
[15]
It doesnt matter how good of a covert ops pilot you are, if you're flying in an area without proper bookmarks you can be killed very easilly.
|
Xthril Ranger
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 13:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Syrec The truth of the matter is that there is a price syndicate/monopoly on Covert Ops II cloaks.
If that is true CCP shouldnt come and bail us out. Eve is a though galaxy and if someone managed to make a monopoly through game mechanics they deserve to reap the rewards.
But I don't think that is the issue. Cov op cloak needs the other cloak to build it and that is the bottleneck. So both cov op/recon ships and all other ships using a regular cloak use in some way the improved cloaking device.
you'll never jump alone |
smallgreenblur
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 13:42:00 -
[17]
HAC prices are inflated! Somebody should do something about it!
Oh hang on... wrong thread...
sgb
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 13:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xthril Ranger
Originally by: Syrec The truth of the matter is that there is a price syndicate/monopoly on Covert Ops II cloaks.
If that is true CCP shouldnt come and bail us out.
in this case they should, as a required module for ship to function, they are an unfair bottleneck which no other ship has that requires a module to work. a module in this case very poorly distrubuted as a function of the bpo distrubution and build requirements.
|
Bombcrater
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 13:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Ummm if you have brains one cloak will be enough for your EVE lifetime...
Even the best cloaker pilot can die simply because of bad luck. I've been flying cloaked ships for a very long time and have seen plenty of stupid circumstances that can get you killed.
I've warped to a hostile gate at 100k and been instantly de-cloaked by a floating corpse. I've also colided with and been de-cloaked by another cloaked ship. Not much you can do to avoid either one.
And, of course, there's the cloak activation bug. You're flying along in a ship that looks cloaked but the server thinks you are actually un-cloaked and so you're easy meat for any passing enemy.
Getting back to the point, I agree the price of cloaks is getting stupid now. Nobody should have to buy a 50m ISK module to make a frigate-class ship work. 50m is bad even from the perspective of a Force Recon pilot. |
Heikki
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 14:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Forsch Why should part of the content be denied to the average player just so a few can get insanely rich without much effort?
If you really think so, you should ignore cheap cov op issues, and focus your protests along Faction BSes, officer mods and especially Titans. Our average players is 7th month old, CCP must do something so they can participate in all aspects of Eve!
IMHO, even if this issue hurts my finances quite a lot, I think it is fine system. T2 stuff are still luxury items; the low supply just forcing ship/module variation. Everyone can still make the choice along, "Is it good enough to be worth of mining for XX hours".
So, IMHO, it's a probem that would need fixing only if output of those cloak ship (Cov ops, Force Recons) BPOs exceeded the output of cloak BPOs (i.e. we couldn't even in theory be able to equip all those ships with Cov op cloak).
-Lasse
P.S. Ok, sometimes I also wonder if it was good idea from CCP to have Cov cloak to require Imp. Cloak which in turn requires proto cloak as production material. All of which are handled like T2 items regarding the BPO distribution.
|
|
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 14:14:00 -
[21]
The easy fix is to seed a "Basic" cloaking device, an Improved cloaking device I and a Covert Ops cloaking device I. Redo the t2 variants so that the Improved II requires an improved I and the covert ops II requires a covert ops I. The Basic cloaking device could be a very crappy one, that only allows you to hide and nothing more. Prototype Cloak I should require a Basic cloak to buuild.
Covert ops I and Improved cloak I should have 20% worse stats than the t2 version and use MORE CPU than the t2 version. Wouldnt be too hard to balance it so that you need a T2 cov ops to fit both cloak and scan probe launcher on a cov ops.
This solution would let the current BPO holders make isk while preventing the bottleneck. I have no problem with the monoploy, but the production chain is stupid when you require three t2 bpo to make one final product...
Its always been stupid, but when stealth bombers and the recon cruisers were introduced it became outright silly.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 16:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Helmut 314 The easy fix is to seed a "Basic" cloaking device, an Improved cloaking device I and a Covert Ops cloaking device I. Redo the t2 variants so that the Improved II requires an improved I and the covert ops II requires a covert ops I. The Basic cloaking device could be a very crappy one, that only allows you to hide and nothing more. Prototype Cloak I should require a Basic cloak to buuild.
Covert ops I and Improved cloak I should have 20% worse stats than the t2 version and use MORE CPU than the t2 version. Wouldnt be too hard to balance it so that you need a T2 cov ops to fit both cloak and scan probe launcher on a cov ops.
as long as the covert ops can stil be covert ops without needing a T2 module, this would also be fine.
|
Forsch
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 17:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Heikki
Originally by: Forsch Why should part of the content be denied to the average player just so a few can get insanely rich without much effort?
If you really think so, you should ignore cheap cov op issues, and focus your protests along Faction BSes, officer mods and especially Titans. Our average players is 7th month old, CCP must do something so they can participate in all aspects of Eve!
Faction ships and officer modules are not something you can specifically train for. You have a choice there on wether to use t1, named, t2 or faction stuff. A covertops without a cloak is not really a covertops.
Forsch Defender of the empire
Micro Smartbombs - make them useful |
FFGR
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 17:07:00 -
[24]
So when it was low priced, it was ok, now that it has risen, it is a major problem . Afterall you are losing CO ships every day . The items are connected with a story also if you don't know. It is plainly stupid to start giving out to EVERYONE access to this technology. Also people that have invested in the cloaks are given a kick in the butt. _____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
Phish1
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 17:28:00 -
[25]
HELLLOOOOOOO?
look, i for 1 would love to be able to use a ship that i spent a while training for, and id love to actually be able to BUY the main item on the ship, the cloak is 5 times more expensive than the ship.... what is wrong with this?
|
Naal Morno
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 17:31:00 -
[26]
Covert ops II devices require Improved II device as an ingredient. This is the reason for the pricing.
If there were changes made for covert ops II to not use Improved II in build process, I would all for it as it would allow me to sell coverts II for much lower price still preserving healthy profit margin (try 10 million if build cost for T1 variant was reasonable).
_________________________________________
Every time you whine a little Cloak is destroyed. Please think of the little Cloaks |
Sebroth
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 17:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Halunoto Vankaalen Uh, do you have any idea how much the price for a Covert Ops Cloak II has jumped in the past three months?
Ummm if you have brains one cloak will be enough for your EVE lifetime...
And you cant be using one in a hostile area. You may not loose that many but you will loose even cov ops. Sensorboosted interceptor, interdictors and so on.
Every time you try to get into a hostile system you might loose the ship and if you not using it in a posibly hostile system why use cov op at all?
TBH I can live w/ the price, I will not loose that many even if I live 24/7 in one, but for the cheetah pilot that will loose so many more ships it has to hurt.
|
DeODokktor
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 17:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Syrec The truth of the matter is that there is a price syndicate/monopoly on Covert Ops II cloaks.
Truth is fact Fact has documentation Show me documentation Else your Truth is just a pox assumption. _______________________________________________
Every time you whine a high output t2 corp giggles. Please think of the poor t1 producers. |
Tul 'Kas
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 18:24:00 -
[29]
Concur almost totally with Hakera here. If nothing else, introducing recons and bombers without dramatically increasing the number of cloak BPOs was a serious miscalculation. Just one minor quibble: Originally by: Hakera however make covert ops frigates/recons only able to warp with them whilst cloaked instead of the attribute being attached to the module but the ship this time
I don't see why this is necessary, it doesn't sound like you're proposing a change to which ships can warp cloaked and the current mechanic implements that fine. Originally by: FFGR It is plainly stupid to start giving out to EVERYONE access to this technology. Also people that have invested in the cloaks are given a kick in the butt.
Back that first statement up with reasons, don't assume that things "plainly" evident to you are evident to everybody. To the second, see Helmut's idea - some people will still pay a premium for the elite module, but it won't be an absolute requirement just to fit your ship for what it was designed to do. So it'd just be kicking those people back down to the same level of "fair" as the rest of the T2 BPO holders. Originally by: Helmut 314 Wouldnt be too hard to balance it so that you need a T2 cov ops to fit both cloak and scan probe launcher on a cov ops.
Only part I don't like, and don't see working either - can't do it by increased fitting because they're both 0 CPU at cov ops 5, any other method you use to limit it that way will feel hokey and unnecessary.
|
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2006.05.06 19:01:00 -
[30]
Covops cloaks should not require improved cloaks to build! There are the same number of BPOs of each and the improved cloaks take 4hr 27 minutes base with the covops cloaks 6hr 40 minutes base. This is a huge supply problem. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |