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What if: ECM

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Willmahh 16	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:32:00 - [31] - Quote edited double post
Willmahh 19	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:36:00 - [32] - Quote like everything else in eve: you learn to play around it or you die. scramming webbing wrong tank neut all of these have 100% of hitting you in range ECM is the only one that has a % to fail.
Desivo Delta Visseroff Arcbound Inc. 194	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:38:00 - [33] - Quote Mehashi 'Kho wrote: Still missing my point........................ I already acknowledged that there are modules you can use to get around the effects of ewar. Where the disparity lies is that once the ewar is successfully applied, for instance your counter was insufficient or absent entirely. ECM is the only one where player skill does not allow you to take action and negate the effects. If you are jammed you are jammed, no angle or speed, nor any other pilot maneuver will break through that effect and allow you to continue fighting unlike every other ewar........................................ You are correct. However, In the case of ECM, that is the point. Once you are jammed, you are jammed....Done. Think paper smothered your rock and it's over. All other Ewar modules administer effects that reduce a particular module/ability of your ship. ECM as practical application has only one purpose that that is a complete jamming or your targeting system. It's an on/off switch and is working as intended. In all honesty and seriousness, I think the current ECM mechanic is too weak. As it stands the jam is applied on a roll. So there is always a chance of ECM missing. I would personally make ECM the bane of all shipping/conflict. If something must be done, All I would do is allow ECCM modules to be overheated with a very high (2-3 cycle) burnout rate. I think that would be fair, if not too easy-mode.
Leto Thule Sons of Retribution 543	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:45:00 - [34] - Quote Last Wolf wrote: Willmahh wrote: Are EM missiles OP because you didnt tank against EM? EVE is rock paper scissors lizard spock. Every fit has a counter fit. You have a counter to ECM. Its called a Sensor Backup Array. Fit one or two of those and you will be very hard to jam. No need to change any game mechanics because you aren't fit against an ECM boat. The main things that I hate about ecm in it's current state : RNG, it either loves you or hates you, but it is random and completely different than everything else in EVE. ECCM, the only counter for ECM is useless if no one is trying to ECM you. At least AB/MWD/Tracking comps/Sensor boosters/Etc.. are useful even if you aren't being webed/TD/sensor damped.... Your correct. Therefore an excellent ECM counter would be: A Falcon, with 2 ECCM and 4 Caldari jammers. Its job is to jam Falcons. Killboard https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ Psychotic Monk for CSM 9
Leto Thule Sons of Retribution 544	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:52:00 - [35] - Quote Willmahh wrote: like everything else in eve: you learn to play around it or you die. scramming webbing wrong tank neut all of these have 100% of hitting you in range ECM is the only one that has a % to fail. Dont forget the missiles! They also hit 100% of the time within range... and no pilot skill is going to help that either. Killboard https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ Psychotic Monk for CSM 9
Last Wolf Umbra Wing 67	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:54:00 - [36] - Quote Leto Thule wrote: Last Wolf wrote: Willmahh wrote: Are EM missiles OP because you didnt tank against EM? EVE is rock paper scissors lizard spock. Every fit has a counter fit. You have a counter to ECM. Its called a Sensor Backup Array. Fit one or two of those and you will be very hard to jam. No need to change any game mechanics because you aren't fit against an ECM boat. The main things that I hate about ecm in it's current state : RNG, it either loves you or hates you, but it is random and completely different than everything else in EVE. ECCM, the only counter for ECM is useless if no one is trying to ECM you. At least AB/MWD/Tracking comps/Sensor boosters/Etc.. are useful even if you aren't being webed/TD/sensor damped.... Your correct. Therefore an excellent ECM counter would be: A Falcon, with 2 ECCM and 4 Caldari jammers. Its job is to jam Falcons. Boy'd Id LOVE to pilot that ship... sure sounds like FUN!! /sarcasm Vacuums suck.
Seven Koskanaiken The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans 1144	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:54:00 - [37] - Quote Puhnk Riddell wrote: Truth is, nobody really likes Jams (I'm expecting comments like "that's not true brah" but whatevs), not even the ones doing the jamming, yeah you get a kill, but the whole "victory" just seems...empty. For a good setup, those who fly as a jammer get to contribute very little dps if any at all and although they appear on the mail they more often than not feel kinda left out of the kill club. Aww.
Mehashi 'Kho Idiot with a gun 140	Posted - 2014.04.04 17:58:00 - [38] - Quote Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote: Think paper smothered your rock and it's over. It's an on/off switch and is working as intended. As it stands the jam is applied on a roll. They are basically the bits I disagree with, not your saying them, but that they are how ecm is currently. Chance based, nothing to do with player skill, lacking any subtlety or nuance. As for the scram argument, this is probably my own bias but I work from the assumption that things that force people into a fight are good, and things that discourage people from fighting are bad. But then I am a pvper / industrialist, both if which involve and require ships fighting.Your mileage may vary.
Desivo Delta Visseroff Arcbound Inc. 195	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:04:00 - [39] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Puhnk Riddell wrote: Truth is, nobody really likes Jams (I'm expecting comments like "that's not true brah" but whatevs), not even the ones doing the jamming, yeah you get a kill, but the whole "victory" just seems...empty. For a good setup, those who fly as a jammer get to contribute very little dps if any at all and although they appear on the mail they more often than not feel kinda left out of the kill club. Aww. Confirming that nobody likes being the force multiplier with the power to turn the tide of battle against a superior force for the benefit of their fleet. All the while improving their killboard, boosting their fleet's morale and laughing maniacally in local through their contributions. Yea....Nobody wants to be that guy.
Herzav Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:04:00 - [40] - Quote Are you proposing a new system of ECM that involves translating a ancient greek CAPTCHA document every time you get jammed? Boy it sounds fun but the tears...

Leto Thule Sons of Retribution 545	Posted - 2014.04.04 18:06:00 - [41] - Quote Last Wolf wrote: Boy'd Id LOVE to pilot that ship... sure sounds like FUN!! /sarcasm May not be fun, but your going to be combat-effective. I wonder if counter-EWAR pilots in real life think its boring? Killboard https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ Psychotic Monk for CSM 9
Vipre Morte Team JK 99	Posted - 2014.04.04 19:41:00 - [42] - Quote Has anyone thought about communications jamming? When hit, your chat and voice channels go down for a period of time, so you can't call in backup. Maybe ppl couldn't warp to you either. If it has been brought up, sorry, today is too "Friday" to read that much.
Serene Repose 1228	Posted - 2014.04.04 20:08:00 - [43] - Quote Candidate for the Try Not To Think grant. Winners will be chosen at a later date. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Nick Starkey Interstellar Steel Templis CALSF 30	Posted - 2014.04.04 22:02:00 - [44] - Quote The problem with your idea is that it creates a mechanical element of skill in the game, something Eve players obviously hate (take a look at all the hate the loot spew introduced in the game). Better leave ecm as it is, its not even that strong considering ecm boats are usually paper and the ecm mechanic is rng based. Things like neuts destroy much more than your ability to fire most of the time, along other things and never miss for example.
Leto Thule Sons of Retribution 545	Posted - 2014.04.04 22:20:00 - [45] - Quote Vipre Morte wrote: Has anyone thought about communications jamming? When hit, your chat and voice channels go down for a period of time, so you can't call in backup. Maybe ppl couldn't warp to you either. If it has been brought up, sorry, today is too "Friday" to read that much. That would be a great idea, but there is nothing you could do to get around third party chat providers, like teamspeak/ventrillo/ect. Killboard https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ Psychotic Monk for CSM 9
Willmahh 19	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:06:00 - [46] - Quote Overview jamming :) the tears would be joyous.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 4663	Posted - 2014.04.05 00:37:00 - [47] - Quote ECM should come with the compromise of breaking ALL locks on the ship too, except or the ship maintaining the jam. This would force the aggressing squad to to resort to FOFs and drones, just like the target. Also, since the bomb launcher demonstrates the ability to launch something into the direction of travel without a lock, we should have the option of doing this with all turrets and bays when jammed so we at least have what I think the OP is asking for. And that would be called "a fighting chance". Bring back DEEEEP Space!
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2626	Posted - 2014.04.05 00:48:00 - [48] - Quote dumb idea gas thread
Puhnk Riddell the DOTwarpunk Initiative DOTwarpunk Collective 1	Posted - 2014.04.05 03:38:00 - [49] - Quote Last Wolf wrote: This idea seems awfully familiar... Wow, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks current ECM is OP and dull Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: ECM should come with the compromise of breaking ALL locks on the ship too, except or the ship maintaining the jam. Just as alot of people's opinion leads them to disagree with my idea, my own opinion leads me to disagree with this. Only the targeted ship should be affected. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Also, since the bomb launcher demonstrates the ability to launch something into the direction of travel without a lock, we should have the option of doing this with all turrets and bays when jammed so we at least have what I think the OP is asking for. And that would be called "a fighting chance". Not what I was proposing but as far as use for ECM this would be a great idea and is probably alot more doable and easier to implement than my idea.
Leto Thule Sons of Retribution 546	Posted - 2014.04.05 04:09:00 - [50] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: ECM should come with the compromise of breaking ALL locks on the ship too, except or the ship maintaining the jam. This would force the aggressing squad to to resort to FOFs and drones, just like the target. Also, since the bomb launcher demonstrates the ability to launch something into the direction of travel without a lock, we should have the option of doing this with all turrets and bays when jammed so we at least have what I think the OP is asking for. And that would be called "a fighting chance". So does this mean that ships who scram are also scrammed? How about web/damp? The whole point is to find a way to imbalance an engagement in your favor. Its not suppose to be fair. Either fit for counter ecm or deal with being jammed. Killboard https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ Psychotic Monk for CSM 9

WouldYouEver HaveSexWith aGoat Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 56	Posted - 2014.04.05 16:03:00 - [51] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote: I see no one has suggested ECCM, Remote Sensor Booster, ECM Busts, Target Breakers, ECM drones on hostile and the many other counters that exist....Also D-SCAN And right here is an EVE player, because a real EVE player exhausts all possible tools to counter a problem BEFORe considering the problem 'unbalanced'. (Not that the Op did that, just speaking in general). Devil's advocate time. Two forms of EWAR: EWAR 1 and EWAR 2 EWAR 1 can be countered with 50% efficiency using a single tool. Cannot be countered any other way. EWAR 2 can be countered with 50% efficiency using a single tool. There are 4 tools available; you must pick the right tool for the given situation to achieve 50% efficiency. If you pick the wrong tool, you counter with 10% efficiency. In this scenario both forms of EWAR have a counter yet EWAR 2 is considerably more overpowered. Thus: Counters existing does not equate to balance.
WASPY69 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 238	Posted - 2014.04.05 19:18:00 - [52] - Quote Puhnk Riddell wrote: Truth is, nobody really likes Jams (I'm expecting comments like "that's not true brah" but whatevs), not even the ones doing the jamming, yeah you get a kill, but the whole "victory" just seems...empty. For a good setup, those who fly as a jammer get to contribute very little dps if any at all and although they appear on the mail they more often than not feel kinda left out of the kill club. I will skip my commenting on what an absolute sh*t post your OP is. And i'd like to add that I've on several occasions flown ECM ships in fleets. Griffins, Kitsunes (Yes, love that little thing <3), Blackbirds, Falcons, and the Scorpion. So I've had my fair share of experience being on the giving end of ECM. And I would really beg to differ with your quoted paragraph. The victory never seems empty whatsoever, if anything it just feels super rewarding knowing your target is probably butt clenching in rage. And from your last sentence it's pretty clear you've never flown in an effective fleet before. As an ECM pilot your main priority is on JAMMING, not the dps. The dps, usually consisting of your drones is just a bonus. As an ewar pilot in a fleet you're assuming the support role, making sure your fleet mates take minimal losses. Yes.. you don't get to be Captain America in your 9000 dps, quadruple 1600mm tanked battleship getting your panties wet knowing you got top damage. Any fleet will love you long time if you step up and say hey, I would love to fly ECM/Damps/Whatever.
Divine Entervention Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 260	Posted - 2014.04.05 20:59:00 - [53] - Quote Where is the chaff? In the falklands war, british ships used chaff to distract argentinian aircraft launched missles into detonating within iron clouds. You want to talk about ECM? Where is it's major component, anti ship missile defense chaff? Proof of lying in thread. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4349703#post4349703
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1213	Posted - 2014.04.05 21:34:00 - [54] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote: I see no one has suggested ECCM, Remote Sensor Booster, ECM Busts, Target Breakers, ECM drones on hostile and the many other counters that exist....Also D-SCAN And right here is an EVE player, because a real EVE player exhausts all possible tools to counter a problem BEFORe considering the problem 'unbalanced'. (Not that the Op did that, just speaking in general). Other than the fact that out of his list, only one is even close to a counter and unlike every other 'counter Ewar' module, it provides no effective benefits when used without ECM. Really, you know better than to defend ECM's current mechanic. It's like Sov, it only endures because no-one can work out how to improve it in a way most people will be happy with, but it's terrible currently.
Willmahh 28	Posted - 2014.04.25 20:24:00 - [55] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote: I see no one has suggested ECCM, Remote Sensor Booster, ECM Busts, Target Breakers, ECM drones on hostile and the many other counters that exist....Also D-SCAN And right here is an EVE player, because a real EVE player exhausts all possible tools to counter a problem BEFORe considering the problem 'unbalanced'. (Not that the Op did that, just speaking in general). Other than the fact that out of his list, only one is even close to a counter and unlike every other 'counter Ewar' module, it provides no effective benefits when used without ECM. Really, you know better than to defend ECM's current mechanic. It's like Sov, it only endures because no-one can work out how to improve it in a way most people will be happy with, but it's terrible currently. i see no problem; ECM is the only module that has a % chance to fail. - that alone is makes it less op than a scram, or web. The one thing no one ever fits against (unless they're Logi pilots) is the one they call OP.... honestly, i feel ALL modules should have a chance to fail: scrams, webs, neuts, even missiles should have a fail chance (just assume all ships would have chaff).
Desivo Delta Visseroff Probe Patrol Ixtab. 217	Posted - 2014.04.25 20:30:00 - [56] - Quote Nice job Willmah. Welcome back from Necropolis.
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 1650	Posted - 2014.04.25 21:07:00 - [57] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: This and --> Features & Ideas Discussion It's still nowhere near as bad as that horrible post where the guy was asking CCP to make a new ship that looks like a Drake with the front end off an Avatar, that can armor and shield tank at the same time. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
CETA Elitist The Prometheus Society 60	Posted - 2014.04.25 23:12:00 - [58] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: Spurty wrote: So I cant use a computer to aim, why can I not just shoot "forwards" exactly? Hoes the trigger on a gun being affected? Also we have these lush properties such as lockable targets. Why aren't they just affected rather than the trigger? ECM is voodoo whichever side of the fence you're on. Try shooting a jumbo-jet sized target moving at 2000 mps with a pea which shoots at 5 times the speed of sound from a distance of 30 kilometers without a computer You say that like its hard or something.
PotatoOverdose Handsome Millionaire Playboys 1672	Posted - 2014.04.25 23:14:00 - [59] - Quote Nurf falcon, lock thread.

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1204	Posted - 2014.04.25 23:55:00 - [60] - Quote This thread should be moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. But as it would get locked there for being redundant as there are several thread on the same subject, I might as well lock it right here. The rules: 16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department




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