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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.11.22 08:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
how I see POCO's as they stand to be implemented in real world views is thus:
- A giant balloon that cost over $2000 with writing on it saying 'Pop me, I'm an easy kill'
Now imagine that being taken to a school of 8-12 year olds. What will happen to every balloon like that in the yard after the first or second day? They will all be popped and no-one will want to replace them due to the cost. Not a great example due to balloons not actually doing anything productive but the principle is the same, there is no incentive to replace popped/destroyed balloons due to the cost and how easy they are popped/destroyed.
In low sec, any of the systems that border onto a high sec connection or within 2-3 jumps of one will be prime targets for 'pirates' and bored people that just want to make other peoples lives hell. A fleet of 5-10 BS's or as many new tier 3 BC's will be able to go in and within 2-3 hours wipe out every planets CO, well put them into reinforce mode, and the move onto the next system to do it again. Now no way in hell there will only be 1 small gang doing this, so expect all low sec system CO's within say 3 jumps of a HS system to be in reinforced by at best the 1-2nd of December, and a day or so after that, without CO's at all.
Now sure some may go about replacing the destroyed CO's with their own POCO's on the 'best' planets but that alone would make them a prime target, even if the tax was 0%. Why? Cos haters gonna hate and people like blowing other peoples **** up for a laugh. Come Christmas low sec planets not being 'guarded' by corps/alliances will be void of CO's (both interbus and POCO's) and thus make them 'dead'. There will be no way to import to them making factory planets non-existant, and exporting via launches is both annoying as hell and in some/most cases, wholly inadequate for the task at hand due to high-ish yields. Also with Christmas coming up alot of the bored ounger players will have time to roam around and blow up CO's thinking they are 'the boss' because they killed a structure that cannot fight back and no-one can be bothered defending or unable to defend due to the shear number of them being attacked.
Now with all the doom and gloom said above here are some thoughts I have regarding the CO/POCO's and how to make them both viable as an investment (without forcing massive tax and forcing away 'clients' from your planet..or making them want to pop your multi million ISK investment cos your a money grubbing bastard) and as a place that can actually defend itself to a limited degree.
First off POCO defence:
Currently the proposed POCO's have no defensive capabilities at all. This will result, as stated above, they will be shot at simply due to the fact that they are there.
I propose after setting them up to be functional, you can upgrade it just like the CC. I will admit I havn't thought this through properly but I want to get it out there before the 29th:
Level: Name: 1 Customs Office (or POCO) 2: Trade Center 3: Trade Hub 4: Outpost (I know the names used, need to come up with a better one) 5: Fortified Trading Hub
Now what they do: CO/POCO: Work how they work currently on SiSi/Tranq
Trade Center: Works the same as above but better shields/armour
Trade Hub: As above but allows anchoring of small-medium PoS guns (small number) (only shoot if aggressed, even if the owning corp is at war with someone using the CO)
Outpost: As above but add in Large guns
Fortified Trade Hub: More shields, armour and structure as all of the others, able to have more guns
The way to make more ISK from them is each level of CO will assist with locating better hot spots on the planet they orbit and allows the planet to have slightly higher yields. However the disadvantage would be there can only be 1 of each type in any given system, except the basic CO/POCO, so there is incentive to still blow up the bigger ones and such.
The advantage would be:
Level: Resource boost: 1 0% 2 3% 3 6% 4 10% 5 15%
Now the boost would be to the planets available resources, not player extractor production or factory output, just what can be found (making the advanced ones useless on a world used just as a factory world, which is intended). The % jumps would be reflected in the cost of setting them up and the fact only 1 of each could be present at any given time in a system.
Long post I know but hey, if the threads being read by the devs, it's the best place to put it to 'paper' after all.
Also note the guns would have to be deployed and anchored by the owning corp, kind of like a PoS, but have no functionality for them to fight on war dec targets or under a certain standing, only if aggressed.
Thoughts on this for those that actually read it all would be great. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.11.24 10:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
whaynethepain wrote:On a side note, I imagine many people will get mails with my name on as I shoot every single POCO I pass by.
I think CCP is holding profits back to keep the market stable during the POCO hand over.
But yea, I would want to tax hostile's off my planets.
Can't you just deny people access if they are under a certain standing with the owning corp? Thought I saw that on a dev blog somewhere, or was that something about how the taxing thing worked? I can't remember.
Either way, given the option of allowing hostiles to make ISK from my investment or totally denying them access to making profit, I know which I would choose.
EDIT:
Also Jack Dent: Sorry about your CO you where testing with, I needed something to wash down all the tears from people crying about how their low sec planets are now going to be nonviable for them cos of evil taxes. It was delicious. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.11.24 11:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not having dabled with Sisi I was unaware of the low taxes currently in place there atm. I was under the impression it would be changed or something when it came live on TQ. That's assumptions for you...almost always wrong :( |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2011.11.28 23:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just to note your last point about people that use PoS's will stop and use public slots, your so very wrong. People will keep using their PoS's to do what they normally do. People have planned and gotten ready everything they need to for the boost in fuel costs and I would hope have made plans accordingly.
As a side note, this WILL increase the costs of setting up a new PoS however due to the PI mats going up and people wanting to still make a profit. Just something to keep in mind. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2011.11.30 12:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
True PI was never a massive gold mine that is Tech moons, however PI can be done totally solo and could not be directly disrupted that much by other players (only direct way was over-mining and resource depletion, but that's a side effect, not a direct attack on you). The indirect way people could screw with your PI 'gold mine' was to intercept you en-rout to either the CO or to the trade hub/drop off point, which happened in low/null alot and in high sec if you where war decced...or had wayy too much crap stuffed into a hauler and making yourself a suicide gank target.
Now you could keep 1-2 accounts EASILY subbed with a half assed 3 character set up with PI prior to the expansion. I know I kept 3 accounts topped up with plex using only 3 characters doing PI, the other 6 where making my monthly profit to be rolled back into paying for PoS fuel, new BPO's and new business ventures. Sure you can make more doing incursions or null sec exploration or what have you, but the good thing with PI was it was pretty much a passive income that paid for your plex and only demanded 10-20 minutes of your day in return.
Now with the PI taxes you can still pay for your plex's ijn high sec but if you now want to attempt to be a PI 'Baron' and hold several planets you can in low/null and tax your peasants whatever you want.
Now industry based corps will suffer slightly due to this as they have no military back up to call on if their POCO is attacked, however most industry based corps have got large sums of ISK in the corp wallets that they could offer mercs to help in defence of the more important/lucrative planets/POCO's and in return set them to blue, no taxes and payment for their protective services if needed.
True it may not work out that way every time and the mercs may just want to shoot at both sides in the end, but you never know. You could come to a very good working relationship and able to hold a system or two of worth while planets with outside protection if your a small indi corp.
People just need to learn to think outside the box when it comes to POCO defense. Get worked out deals before hand, then destroy the interbus CO, put up your own and have the mercs on call if it gets reinforced. They always love blowing stuff up and nothing is better than people that don't expect it. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2011.11.30 12:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ellin Einher wrote:Alisarina wrote:People just need to learn to think outside the box when it comes to POCO defense. Give them some PG and let me plant a few static defenses, then I wont complain about anything in this expansion :). That way people that REALLY wants to take them down will still be able, and the people just messing around will have a harder time.
Of course if people want it dead it will die, just like anything in Eve. Even the best defended PoS will fall, even in null sec will go boom if people want it dead enough. POCO's are still VERY soft targets, even if you defend them, if they are wanted dead, they will die.
I agree, giving it some PG for guns it would be nice and make it more desirable to set up as it wouldn't be such a soft target. It would still be an easy target, but it may get soem fun KMs |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.12.02 12:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
is that room surprisingly coffin shaped? If so I want to book a weekend away there! Sounds grand. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2011.12.06 07:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
I could be one oft he only people here that love the goons for all they do in Eve. Granted I don't stoop low enough to mine either minerals or ice so am not subject to their suicide ganking (and if if I was, being suicide ganked mining would be doing me a service of slapping me around and asking 'WTF are you doing this for you moron?!? get out of mining NOW!').
So saying that, I've never been harassed by goons in all the time I've played and their market manipulations and trolling in the forums are almost always funny, some just make you scratch your head and move on wondering wtf you just read but that's teh same in any forum.
If they are going to hike up the PI goods, all the power to em. Grand scheme of things everyone will either directly or indirectly make more isk from a large number of activities related to PI as a consequence of a price hike. Now if they crash it (not going to happen but still IF) then it's also a win for alot of people that use PI goods to make stuff and fuel their PoS's. For me currently if the PI market goes up from goons threatening to hike it up or crashes I would be uneffected due to margins being how they are I would still make cash, or just pull out of the market totally and reinvest in something else that may end up being a gold mine that I never knew about.
All the pointless whining about PI taxes, null sec getting a great deal and HS being screwed and low sec being left in that permanent gray area are pointless. It just shows how inflexible you are to a dynamic environment. If you find HS taxes force you to make no profit for whatever reason and you refuse to go to low sec and do it with, lets admit, bugger all risk then you deserve to be left out in the cold whilst the adaptive kids have a party.
Remember there are two things certain in life: Death and Taxes...this is your wake up call :P |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.12.06 14:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
shhh...don't let the unwashed masses know this! if they do the markets will crash!
Haha who am I kidding, people are too lazy to do PI and the stigma that it's dead in high sec and low sec has already settled, even if it's only had a few days to get it's tendrils out.
Really though I'm back to normal if not slightly higher margins after a minor re-organization, mainly due to changing locations of factory worlds.
Side note: the buff to transit tubes or whatever they are called is handy as hell! |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.12.07 08:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
TL;DR version:
People: QQ!!! CCP wtf you do with PI taxes?!?! You have destroyed the game...I'm going to quit
Other people: Cool, go, can I have your stuffz
Smart people: PI tax is fine, POCO are fine. Learn to adapt and HTFU or GTFO of PI and go back to incursions/mining/insert other activity.
There is alot more subtleties in the thread and other things been covered, but thats the basics with no flesh.
EDIT: also forgot the bitching and moaning towards teh goons, but that's normal from people being jelly of them. Again the general consensus is for them to HTFU too. |
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Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.12.07 11:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
for a bit of fun, can you doomsday the interbus CO's and POCO's?
Could make for some funny vids if you could with a few titans DDing a POCO with the caption 'GTFO my lawn!'. It would be mildly amusing, even though it wouldn't kill it. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.12.11 01:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Strange, I'm making millions per planet per day on all of my characters doing PI in high sec on factory planets. With you saying if you don't use POCO's you loose money it seems I'm breaking your rule.
Also if prices for lower tier materials goes up, but the next tier stays the same, then no, you are not making the same as before. In fact your making less if your making the next tier of product, and making more if your making the previous tier of goods. So the materials cost is up, so the 'cost of producing' will not go up proportionally or down.
Some people have gotten out of the market which to me personally is a good thing. It means less competition for materials and less undercutters when I go to sell.
If I missed the mark on what you ment I'm sorry. |
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