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AgentFiftySix
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
10
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Posted - 2014.04.06 03:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
By this logic we should allow crystal sets to apply to capital shield reps as well. Come at my chimera now. |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
25
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Posted - 2014.04.06 03:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
AgentFiftySix wrote:By this logic we should allow crystal sets to apply to capital shield reps as well. Come at my chimera now.
Not against this idea. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1411
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Posted - 2014.04.06 04:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
The Cue wrote:If the pulsar effect is so game breaking, it seems pretty simple to tone the cap down for another bonus, maybe something that doesn't exist in the variable effects yet?
How about this: Cap recharge becomes: Capacitor recharge -5% -9% -13% -17% -20% -25% and pulsars gain: Optimal +5% +9% +13% +17% +20% +25% Falloff +5% +9% +13% +17% +20% +25%
Which happens to match extremely well with the added targeting speed bonus. It's just half of the cap bonus with the Optimal and Fall off penalty from Black Holes applied at half and reversed.
I am assuming you meant target range and not speed No trolling please |
Akseli Jari
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
13
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Posted - 2014.04.06 04:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:The Cue wrote:If the pulsar effect is so game breaking, it seems pretty simple to tone the cap down for another bonus, maybe something that doesn't exist in the variable effects yet?
How about this: Cap recharge becomes: Capacitor recharge -5% -9% -13% -17% -20% -25% and pulsars gain: Optimal +5% +9% +13% +17% +20% +25% Falloff +5% +9% +13% +17% +20% +25%
Which happens to match extremely well with the added targeting speed bonus. It's just half of the cap bonus with the Optimal and Fall off penalty from Black Holes applied at half and reversed. I am assuming you meant target range and not speed
My missiles! D:
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Akseli Jari
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
13
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Posted - 2014.04.06 05:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
Anyway, on track.
Pulsars are fine for me, I can't comment about wolf systems because I have limited experience in them. I'll detail my reason.
1. I'm a subcap pilot and don't have the ability to fly caps at all, the pulsar has always been fine, I've come close to being alpha'd before and I'll die at some point. I'd prefer not to have a nerf due to cap pilots getting more repping bs.
The minutes referred to an idea about nerfing income x the amount of Pos in system. Some were for it until one of the csm reps actually pulled the common sense card here, congrats!
Someone on our coms mentioned a change to income like that would encourage farming holes to avoid it, which sounds like sov, except no tcu's and pos bashing... No, please object if this comes up again.
K162 delays are bad, we gank enough as is, I enjoy fights more than ganks. Please let stupid ideas like this die, but please keep new ideas coming, eventually well come up with a good one.
Previously been in a c4,it was chosen by the corp Because it was quiet. If you're going to propose new static mechanics please have a survey conducted.
I'd be more interested in suggestions made by ccp, csm and even vocal personalities if there were statistics or surveys to assist in putting a point across. Who are the wspace entities that are interested in having a say and their opinions heard, a way to reach out to these ppl to complete surveys and gather statistics might be a good start for any candidate that wants to go about things logically, identify that there IS actually a problem and propose a solution.
Jari |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
26
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Posted - 2014.04.06 05:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:I am assuming you meant target range and not speed >,>
Clearly you just quoted me wrong to make fun of me. I didn't edit my post, I swear.
Akseli Jari wrote:My missiles! D:
Seems fair to me to assume if you change gun range you change drone control range and missile flight time to match. v0v |
Karen Galeo
Sin Factory Infinite Anarchy
31
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Posted - 2014.04.06 07:08:00 -
[67] - Quote
Akseli Jari wrote:Anyway, on track.
Pulsars are fine for me, I can't comment about wolf systems because I have limited experience in them. I'll detail my reason.
1. I'm a subcap pilot and don't have the ability to fly caps at all, the pulsar has always been fine, I've come close to being alpha'd before and I'll die at some point. I'd prefer not to have a nerf due to cap pilots getting more repping bs.
Most of what I'd say on the issue has already been pointed out, but I would like to take a moment and highlight this.
If a change to the way a ship or module works causes it to become ridiculously overpowered, I think that CCP should start looking for a fix by changing that specific item. Not putting a change through that hits an entire subsection of the game,but by looking at that one ship.
Author of the Karen 162 blog. Karen Galeo is running for CSM9! |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
57
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Posted - 2014.04.06 07:16:00 -
[68] - Quote
This is the problem with the minutes, it's missing so much background info on what's being talked about that if you're not read in it all sounds crazy. So thanks James for the background info on it.
As I've said before on the C4 extra static issue, it doesn't mean that more people will be heading upwards to shoot at you. We're perfectly capable of tracking which sig is the WH up and we're perfectly capable of ignoring it.
So do some of you actually choose to not fight in particular WH's as it means you can't run the armour t3 setup? For realsies? not just smack talk? |
Winthorp
1445
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Posted - 2014.04.06 07:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote:
So do some of you actually choose to not fight in particular WH's as it means you can't run the armour t3 setup? For realsies? not just smack talk?
For realsies. (Insert witty signature here) |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
261
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Posted - 2014.04.06 09:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
Lol, whining about Pulsars?
Please, a game isn't fun without aspects that are possibly imba. Fun in eve is based around other people not having fun in most cases. Having mechanics that are not perfectly balanced for everybody is completely sane and from a design perspective it makes sense to introduce even more.
Especially for wormhole systems, if you want to kill a chimera in a pulsar, prepare accordingly, don't just whine your random pvp fleet can't kill it. A triage chimera can easily be killed in a pulsar if you actually bring dreads. Don't whine because you're not willing to collapse yourself out of your own hole, or scan a way in from elsewhere to bring in caps.
You cannot expect to be able to kill everything no matter what in any scenario. I think people who whine about game mechanics need to learn to adapt rather than complain to CCP about balancing mechanics so that the game becomes completely a game of numbers (as subcap pvp has become more and more with the recent ~balance~ passes that have happened).
In my opinion a game based around having the fun at expense of others should be inherently imbalanced. The stupid people will chose to fly bad ships and use bad mechanics, and the smart ones will avoid it. |
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Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
823
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Posted - 2014.04.06 10:42:00 -
[71] - Quote
Never thought there would be a day I would agree with the damn Angsty Teenager
but in this instance it's hard to argue with his points Sky Fighters - WH Space Mercs. -áFor more details https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=286708&find=unread
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Illipsys
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
18
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Posted - 2014.04.06 11:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:BayneNothos wrote:
So do some of you actually choose to not fight in particular WH's as it means you can't run the armour t3 setup? For realsies? not just smack talk?
For realsies.
It seems there are some diehards from the old days yes. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
27
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Posted - 2014.04.06 11:26:00 -
[73] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Lol, whining about Pulsars?
Please, a game isn't fun without aspects that are possibly imba. Fun in eve is based around other people not having fun in most cases. Having mechanics that are not perfectly balanced for everybody is completely sane and from a design perspective it makes sense to introduce even more.
Especially for wormhole systems, if you want to kill a chimera in a pulsar, prepare accordingly, don't just whine your random pvp fleet can't kill it. A triage chimera can easily be killed in a pulsar if you actually bring dreads. Don't whine because you're not willing to collapse yourself out of your own hole, or scan a way in from elsewhere to bring in caps.
You cannot expect to be able to kill everything no matter what in any scenario. I think people who whine about game mechanics need to learn to adapt rather than complain to CCP about balancing mechanics so that the game becomes completely a game of numbers (as subcap pvp has become more and more with the recent ~balance~ passes that have happened).
In my opinion a game based around having the fun at expense of others should be inherently imbalanced. The stupid people will chose to fly bad ships and use bad mechanics, and the smart ones will avoid it. I believe homogenization is a very bad thing, and deprives a game of significant uniqueness.
I think it's hilarious when people clamour for things to be fixed when they could just adapt instead (see goons flying 2000 sig radius drakes against tracking titans, etc...).
******* lol people. I honestly wish the devs were less responsive to specific player directions. In my opinion the game should be guided by a grand vision from CCP that isn't guided by player complaints or business/profit concerns. Unfortunately I can't see that happening. The CSM is really simply a joke and I think it should not exist, what is needed instead is a bit more sense in the CCP Eve department as a whole. I think the only thing the CSM offers CCP is guidance on not straying from the type of game eve is fundamentaly, but I also think that CSM is full of people who pretend they know what's best for the game when they simply do not, will not, and can not possibly know this.
tl;dr: If you're going to be a WH CSM, I implore you to work against CCP involving any sort of balance changes towards WH effects. That doesn't exclude changes, just changes that work towards trying to make all of the wormholes equally viable for any party in them. There should be wormholes that favor many types of behavior, offensive, defensive, subversive, controlling, covert, and any other type. I also think that new types of wormhole effects and mechanics should be introduced. I feel that wormholes should be an environment that forces constant adaptation and not somewhere that is a stagnant environment...
So you start your clueless rant with the idea that people whine about pulsars, and then go on to humiliate yourself with incohorent babble for several chapters. Well chosen name!
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
29
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Posted - 2014.04.06 11:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:Never thought there would be a day I would agree with the damn Angsty Teenager
but in this instance it's hard to argue with his points
No, it is not. So chess isn-¦t fun? Unless you call the tiny benefit from playing one colour imba.
While I also think pulsars are the best effects and it-¦s so funny to watch armor-t3 gangs sit at the door and refuse to come in and play, "just bring dreads" is not a solution. Might be in nullsec but not here where we have massrestrictions and HOLES WHICH DON`T FIT DREADS. It might be balanced now, but if you add another 30% (?) from fleetboosts to that tank and maybe even a crystalset it-¦s not anymore.
And the players at least have some control and feedback over the CSM. Without it CCP only listens to the same dubious nullblockleaders they have been listening to for years. And that turned out so well. Or listen to noone only to your designteam, that was also really awesome, wasn-¦t it. And worked out so well for so many other developers...
Besides his tldr, that was rather good.
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
266
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Posted - 2014.04.06 21:24:00 -
[75] - Quote
Chess and EVE are not the same type of game, my argument can't be applied to both in the same fashion.
As for low-class wormholes. If somebody wants to spend a month building a cap in their C3 wormhole, they should have a corresponding advantage. Plus for low-class wormholes the amount of bonus the effect gives is less and thus any issue you may have with perma-tanking chimeras is less of an issue.
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Jack Miton
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
3214
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Posted - 2014.04.06 22:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
I seriously can't believe we are having this discussion. You people are actually basing the 'OP level' of a certain system type on the fact that if someone officer fits a Chimera it becomes hard to kill? Come on man. Hell if I put 40bil into ANY ship, it should be a damn sight better than a T2 fit.
As for being 'fair' and 'balanced'? Since when is EVE meant for be fair and balanced? This is bullsh*t that needs to be called out way more often. When was the last time you had a balanced fight? Both side may think it's balanced but in reality there's no such thing. The trick is, and always has been, to make the other guy think they have the upper hand. It would be UNbalanced if Pulsar effects only applied to the home team. Given they obviously apply to everyone in system, just use your head and also use them to your advantage. People keep talking about 'home field pulsar advantage', what does that even mean? That we have shield ships and you don't? That isn't really our fault now is it? The only advantage we have is the same advantage you and everyone else has; capital numbers, and the type of system has no affect on that.
Also, why do we need fleet boosts to apply to capital reps? Is this really something that needs to happen? If so it would really help for someone to point out why. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
57
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 23:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
My reading of it is more of a "Pay attention to what you're changing so we don't get another infinite gun situation" with an erroneous "If we have to we'll screw W space over to make K space work kinda maybe just randomly talking" attached on. |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
178
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 00:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
So much butthurt in this thread!
Don't you guys realise that CCP gunna do what they wonna do, we have no say in this..
It's only until afterwards that they realise they made a mistake, when the 40 page threadnaught of unsub threats pops up.
Brb, unsubscribing my accounts. |
Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
271
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 04:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Illipsys wrote:
@ Winthorp - I too like fighting you guys, but dislike your terrible, terrible QQ on forums about us. You're like a whiny broken record, man up and come shoot me.
I do try.
I miss Winthorp. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
100
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 05:13:00 -
[80] - Quote
If links effect capital reps then Crystals should effect them as well... in addition all the implants that say "does not effect capital modules" should have that removed. Everything should blanket effect everything amirite?
Also.. you cannot justify a balance pass based on extream cases (1 million EHP T3s... 'unkillable' Chimeras) -Bl+¦d |
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Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
145
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
Who cares about effects..
wtf is this at page 18
Quote:Implementation on a full replacement for starbases has not started, but there is design work on-going. |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
57
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 15:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Who cares about effects.. wtf is this at page 18 Quote:Implementation on a full replacement for starbases has not started, but there is design work on-going.
Not too surprising. They'll want the "how" all figured out well before a coder or artist actually starts work so as to not waste time. It seems like it'll be based around the deployable system which tbh has all the elements to make a POS already around. There's the faux FF in the ESS, a range from a point in space, all that's needed is the who can go inside that range and a pretty sphere art effect and that's done. Tractors can pick things out, not too much more work to swap that over to a gun and shoot players. Mobile Depot's = SMA's.
But that's all just replacing out to what we have already, I'd guess CCP probably wants to change them up quite a bit and in general refresh them, hence the designing and not started actual work. CCP works in sprints, I can't remember how long their sprints are but, as the name suggests, are short. So be glad they're still designing cause once they start working it'll be over before you know it :P |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
100
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
I just hope when they 'replace' POSs/Starbases or whatever you wish to call it they keep the ForceField mechanic and do not add stations to WHs. This keeps our unique environment and keeps station games out of our space.
All that's needed is a better UI for POSs so you can queue onlining modules, more practical tiers of security access (or better yet be able to assign people only being able access specific containers/hangers only), and make it a better option for industry focused groups (although this appears to already have been happening with the refining rebalance). -Bl+¦d |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
358
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:I just hope when they 'replace' POSs/Starbases or whatever you wish to call it they keep the ForceField mechanic and do not add stations to WHs. This keeps our unique environment and keeps station games out of our space.
All that's needed is a better UI for POSs so you can queue onlining modules, more practical tiers of security access (or better yet be able to assign people only being able access specific containers/hangers only), and make it a better option for industry focused groups (although this appears to already have been happening with the refining rebalance). CCP really doesn't like the POS FF, because it doesn't cause a distinct state change, but I'm pushing to keep it as much as possible. CSM 8 Representative
http://csm8.org |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1139
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:00:00 -
[85] - Quote
Page 19, CSM Minutes wrote: CCP Bettik then suggested a mad science idea, where incoming wormholes would not spawn the signature for the K162 immediately, but instead it would be delayed for an amount of time. James disapproved strongly of the idea, and expressed that such an advantage should be balanced by being unable to leave the grid until the signature is spawned. Chitsa got excited and strongly approved of the idea.
What in the actual ****? |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
57
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:I just hope when they 'replace' POSs/Starbases or whatever you wish to call it they keep the ForceField mechanic and do not add stations to WHs. This keeps our unique environment and keeps station games out of our space.
All that's needed is a better UI for POSs so you can queue onlining modules, more practical tiers of security access (or better yet be able to assign people only being able access specific containers/hangers only), and make it a better option for industry focused groups (although this appears to already have been happening with the refining rebalance). CCP really doesn't like the POS FF, because it doesn't cause a distinct state change, but I'm pushing to keep it as much as possible.
That explains the whole mooring at POS's thing from a while ago while turning them into Mini Stations. This is one of those times where doing a separate W-Space thing from K space would be good. A separate W-Space POS type that only anchors out here. Hell, just grab the WH mechanics and apply them to leaving the Station-Lite Nu-POS, just lore it over with "They use mini WH's to leave the POS" or something. The point being, K space doesn't have to leak into W space here.
@Paikis There's a thread on that already :P This is one of those things where the minutes don't show whats up here. That could be word for word, or it could be a 20 minute back and forth conversation. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1088
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:26:00 -
[87] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:I just hope when they 'replace' POSs/Starbases or whatever you wish to call it they keep the ForceField mechanic and do not add stations to WHs. This keeps our unique environment and keeps station games out of our space.
All that's needed is a better UI for POSs so you can queue onlining modules, more practical tiers of security access (or better yet be able to assign people only being able access specific containers/hangers only), and make it a better option for industry focused groups (although this appears to already have been happening with the refining rebalance). CCP really doesn't like the POS FF, because it doesn't cause a distinct state change, but I'm pushing to keep it as much as possible.
Their reason became a lot more obvious in the discussion about rebooting the AUR store. A dockable POS could allow WH dwellers to redeem items in the WH, leading to more convenience for the people living in them and tastier drops for the people shooting at them.
(And before anyone decides to come after me for my tasty drops, I already have a Jita alt for this. Sorry! ) Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
360
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:29:00 -
[88] - Quote
Paikis wrote: Page 19, CSM Minutes wrote: CCP Bettik then suggested a mad science idea, where incoming wormholes would not spawn the signature for the K162 immediately, but instead it would be delayed for an amount of time. James disapproved strongly of the idea, and expressed that such an advantage should be balanced by being unable to leave the grid until the signature is spawned. Chitsa got excited and strongly approved of the idea.
What in the actual ****? Lol yeah, we kind of had a devthread about that, and then an emergency DTP podcast, and I told Fozzie he needed to stop scaring everyone. CSM 8 Representative
http://csm8.org |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 00:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:I just hope when they 'replace' POSs/Starbases or whatever you wish to call it they keep the ForceField mechanic and do not add stations to WHs. This keeps our unique environment and keeps station games out of our space.
All that's needed is a better UI for POSs so you can queue onlining modules, more practical tiers of security access (or better yet be able to assign people only being able access specific containers/hangers only), and make it a better option for industry focused groups (although this appears to already have been happening with the refining rebalance). CCP really doesn't like the POS FF, because it doesn't cause a distinct state change, but I'm pushing to keep it as much as possible.
Ok so, if they really are bringing back all the modular pos stuff. Which could be a good and a bad thing when you look at it.. at least have it configurable so a FF module can be used instead of a docking module. I mean let's be realistic, we're in the future, using alien tech, and we have epic spaceships. If we can't figure out a way to keep FFs we're doing it wrong.
James, your conservative alternative views have been somewhat consistent with those of the average wormhole Joe. But please kick Chitsa in the shins for me :P |
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