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lollerwaffle
Perkone Caldari State
275
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ovv Topik wrote:Tactical Shield Manipulation:
Copied from another thread:
Level 0: Below 25% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 1: Below 20% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 2: Below 15% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 3: Below 10% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 4: Below 5% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 5: You will never bleed damage to armor.
Level 4 is required by tech 2 hardeners. There is no real reason to go past level 4 for most people. The skill at 5 is useful to a very small minority.
It has been shown that the skill is detrimental, particularly to armor tanks, as it forces the shield to absorb damage which keeps it lower, and lower shield below 25% recharges progressively slower the lower it goes.
Bottom line: train it to level 4 and forget it. This is wrong and a common misconception.
The armor bleed through is ADDITIONAL damage on top of what you take on your shields. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
575
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Anything related to the Jovian ships as they are only flyable by CCP employees.
Though the relevant skills are not publicly available and the ships themselves are allegedly being deleted shortly.
lollerwaffle wrote:Ovv Topik wrote:Tactical Shield Manipulation:
Copied from another thread:
Level 0: Below 25% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 1: Below 20% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 2: Below 15% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 3: Below 10% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 4: Below 5% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 5: You will never bleed damage to armor.
Level 4 is required by tech 2 hardeners. There is no real reason to go past level 4 for most people. The skill at 5 is useful to a very small minority.
It has been shown that the skill is detrimental, particularly to armor tanks, as it forces the shield to absorb damage which keeps it lower, and lower shield below 25% recharges progressively slower the lower it goes.
Bottom line: train it to level 4 and forget it. This is wrong and a common misconception. The armor bleed through is ADDITIONAL damage on top of what you take on your shields.
There is another advantage to only training to IV which arises if you use an RAH. It primes the RAH for the correct damage type before you actually get fully into armor. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3431
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
lollerwaffle wrote:Ovv Topik wrote:Tactical Shield Manipulation:
Copied from another thread:
Level 0: Below 25% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 1: Below 20% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 2: Below 15% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 3: Below 10% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 4: Below 5% shield there is a small chance to bleed damage to armor. Level 5: You will never bleed damage to armor.
Level 4 is required by tech 2 hardeners. There is no real reason to go past level 4 for most people. The skill at 5 is useful to a very small minority.
It has been shown that the skill is detrimental, particularly to armor tanks, as it forces the shield to absorb damage which keeps it lower, and lower shield below 25% recharges progressively slower the lower it goes.
Bottom line: train it to level 4 and forget it. This is wrong and a common misconception. The armor bleed through is ADDITIONAL damage on top of what you take on your shields. This is not true, and has been tested.
Please see the countless other threads on the topic. Hint: search for threads I've posted in, |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2578
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Posted - 2014.04.14 10:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:This is wrong and a common misconception. The armor bleed through is ADDITIONAL damage on top of what you take on your shields. This is not true, and has been tested. Please see the countless other threads on the topic. Hint: search for threads I've posted in. EDIT: Nevermind, I searched for you. See the posts by Goa Vibe. [Estel Arador linked these (post #36).]
Thank you. If I had a kitten for every time I'd seen the old "TSM 5 is not harmful" line posted on these forums, I could serve a kitten stew to everyone in Jita 4-4. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1092
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Posted - 2014.04.14 11:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ronix Aideron wrote: Advanced Spaceship Command is a useless skill. You have to train it to level 5 to open any capital ship that has it as a requirement (Orca does not). I understand prior to the Capital ship requirement freighters had lower requirements but no more.
Well, no, it's not useless. It's just you need to train for the maximum benefit it provides in order to fly some ships. As far as the old. lower requirements go, there's actually very little difference in the old versus new training time - something in the order of a few days. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
340
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Posted - 2014.04.14 11:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:Well, Astronautic Engineering is entirely useless, it even says so in the description. And most T2 industry skills do nothing but unlock blueprints, and, as Elena noted, some don't even do that above a certain level. Other than that, there are the 'range' trading skills: Day Trading, Marketing, Procurement, Visibility. Level 4 extends the range to 20 jumps (within the same region) while level 5 extends it to the entire region. (The range of what depends on the skill.) However, it's extremely rare for two systems in the same region to be more than 20 jumps apart. (There's Obe - Paale in The Forge which are 21 jumps apart, but I actually had to search for that.) Thus lvl 5 of any of those skills is pretty much pointless.
It is system, 5, 10, 15, region. So V = 16+ not 20+.
16+ is pretty common, especially in empire, although I find it more usefull in null where my base might be on the opposite side of the region. There are also taxes to consider, just because a station might sit in the perfect point for your buy order, doesn't mean you have the best faction there. Instead your favored corp might have a rather suboptimal placement. With the V skills, which I have because they are useful, I can make sure region wide orders are getting the lowest fees available no matter what station my buy order is placed.
So yea, most people might not find them useful, but they are not useless. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3436
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Posted - 2014.04.14 15:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Thank you. If I had a kitten for every time I'd seen the old "TSM 5 is not harmful" line posted on these forums, I could serve a kitten stew to everyone in Jita 4-4. Erm... I was misquoted, but yes TSM5 is slightly detrimental, but to such a small extent that, and requires a very unlikely scenario to occur, that the loss of a few points of EHP doesn't matter.
This also makes it completely pointless to spend two weeks training TSM 5. [Unless you are OCD about all level 5's and such.]
Also, there is no additional damage when bleed occurs. |
Silver Dagger Kondur
Element Underground
26
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: ... Thank you. If I had a kitten for every time I'd seen the old "TSM 5 is not harmful" line posted on these forums, I could serve a kitten stew to everyone in Jita 4-4.
You should come by my place, I eat at a wonderful Chinese restaurant on many Fridays.
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Angela Strontflare
Silverflames
0
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Posted - 2014.05.25 16:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Since I hate reading through the thread to see the skills, I will try sum it up.
In the following a skill level is useless if it gives you no bonus or unlock.
Bragging rights are useless. High SP count is not only useless but also cost ISK. High skill count: See bragging rights.
Please do let me know of any errors / skills I missed.
Astronautics Engineering I-V: Useless. Jury Rigging V : Useless. Industrial Construction IV-V: Useless. Battleship Construction V: Useless. Outpost Constructiopn IV-V: Useless. Tactical Shield Manipulation V: Not just useless, but harmful.
Skills that have been claimed useless but are not: Advanced Target Management V: Little use but there are ships with 13 targets. Advanced Spaceship Command I-V: Not useless at all, required to fly capital ships + bonus. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6455
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Posted - 2014.05.25 17:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Thomas Builder wrote:Well, Astronautic Engineering is entirely useless, it even says so in the description. And most T2 industry skills do nothing but unlock blueprints, and, as Elena noted, some don't even do that above a certain level. Other than that, there are the 'range' trading skills: Day Trading, Marketing, Procurement, Visibility. Level 4 extends the range to 20 jumps (within the same region) while level 5 extends it to the entire region. (The range of what depends on the skill.) However, it's extremely rare for two systems in the same region to be more than 20 jumps apart. (There's Obe - Paale in The Forge which are 21 jumps apart, but I actually had to search for that.) Thus lvl 5 of any of those skills is pretty much pointless. I = system, II = 5, III = 10, IV = 15, V = region. So V = 16+ not 20+. 16+ is pretty common, especially in empire, although I find it more usefull in null where my base might be on the opposite side of the region. There are also taxes to consider, just because a station might sit in the perfect point for your buy order, doesn't mean you have the best faction there. Instead your favored corp might have a rather suboptimal placement. With the V skills, which I have because they are useful, I can make sure region wide orders are getting the lowest fees available no matter what station my buy order is placed. So yea, most people might not find them useful, but they are not useless. You have the ranges wrong. The skill description says the range is 5@ lvl 2 and each level after that doubles the range, so the ranges are 1, 5, 10, 20, region. |
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1351
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Posted - 2014.05.25 17:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Angela Strontflare wrote: Jury Rigging V : Useless.
Required for manufacturing T3 subsystems.
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Jur Tissant
Hemah Industries
71
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Posted - 2014.05.25 22:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
There are a few that are very niche or less than useful. Jump Drive Operation isn't particularly fantastic past level I. In a pinch it might help you escape a web, and as such might be useful escaping camps in null I guess. Jump Drives are being expanded to other ships soon so that might change.
Remote Sensing seems a little lackluster past level III (Planetology). It lets you see further when you scout out planets in other systems, but you can have the same planets up for weeks without using it. |
Tarthaliondor
Protocol 417
1
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Posted - 2014.05.26 22:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Forum Purposes wrote:So: Battleship Construction 5 is a dead level (dead level it does nothing for you at that point). Industrial Construction 4 and 5 are dead levels. Outpost Consbasetion 4 and 5 are dead levels Astronautic Engineering is completely worthless (but it is only because CCP didn't want to remove the skill; it exists as a joke)
Are there any others that y'all are aware of?
Outpost construction 4 & 5 are not dead skills (unlikely you will ues them though). They unlock the highest tier player built dockable nullsec station service upgrades like the 50% base refine yield upgrade module on the minmatar station.
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2254
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Posted - 2014.05.27 00:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:There are a few that are very niche or less than useful. Jump Drive Operation isn't particularly fantastic past level I. In a pinch it might help you escape a web, and as such might be useful escaping camps in null I guess. Jump Drives are being expanded to other ships soon so that might change.
Remote Sensing seems a little lackluster past level III (Planetology). It lets you see further when you scout out planets in other systems, but you can have the same planets up for weeks without using it.
Need JDO 5 in order to grab Jump Fuel Conservation and Jump Drive Calibration, which save jump fuel and increase range, respectively.
edit -> not to mention, it reduces base cap requirement to run a jump drive... although all three of those skills are specific to capships.
Edit again --> oh, the moved JFC to JDO 3 ... but you still need it for Jump Portal Generation and JDC. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Miriya Zakalwe
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
139
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Posted - 2014.05.27 02:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
There are some currently useless skills because the systems they enable are useless; FoF and Defender Missiles, for example.
They could maybe fix those systems - buff FoF and make a new point defense system for Defender missiles, maybe. But for now they are useless. |
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