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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
168
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:13:00 -
[661] - Quote
Hmm need these changes along with drone changes on the test server. I sometimes switch from the Ishtar to the Gila when I run hisec exploration sites. Just to have a different looking hull really, since they're functionally the same. At least the way I fly them. It will be interesting to see how the Gila performs now. I'm almost certain it will clear sites much slower than it did with Garde IIs. Not good for competitive hisec sites.
With the Ishtar and current Gila, I sit at the warp in and insta-blap 5 frigs at a time, then take out cruisers in 2 or 3 volleys. Then MWD to the next gate. With the new Gila moving around staying close to your 2 drones... I don't see it being very efficient. I doubt the addition of missiles can make up for it. I also wonder what the total DPS will look like. With the Ishtar and Cerberus dishing out 800+ DPS, the new Gila may never win the tower bash in Guristas 4/10. Gotta rely on being a quick thief. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2489
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:16:00 -
[662] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The Serpentis web bonus is extremely strong. We went into this balance pass thinking it was probably too strong and that we may need to tune it down. In the first Pirate Faction thread (the Frigates) I asked specifically for feedback on this bonus and how players felt about it. We also brought it up with the CSM during the summit.
The vast majority of feedback from all angles pointed towards an agreement that in certain environments this bonus was extremely powerful but that it wasn't having a negative effect on the game overall and we should leave it alone. I'm not sure if anyone remembers by now but when I casually mentioned changing this bonus during a Reddit AMA there was an outcry to prevent us from doing that at all costs.
Internally we are a bit divided even though we all agree it's one of the game's most powerful bonuses. I want to try and leave it because unique points of power like this one, as long as they aren't oppressive, are more interesting than moving everything towards a middle ground.
The maths on it breaks it and IMO it should go (in its present form) so that you can produce web effects that exceed 60% baseline. As long as this bonus exists, even a 64% web is utterly, horribly gamebreaking and IMO 62% would be too strong even for an officer module.
50% better than normal intuitively implies "As good as using 1.5 of these modules", which for 60% Webs would mean a strength of (1-0.4^1.5), which is basically a 75% web. If the Serpentis bonus turned 60% webs into 75% ones, it would be powerful but would not impose the same design constraints upon modules. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Julian DeCroix
Socialist Death Panel
17
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:34:00 -
[663] - Quote
Where exactly do these hull bonuses come from? Caldari ships are generally slow, clumsy balls of sig radius, relying on massive shields for survivability - why would the Phantasm gain an AB bonus from Caldari skill? Likewise, I can count the number of Gallente ships with more than a single, token launcher hardpoint on one hand - why would the Gila gain a missile bonus from Gallente skill? It just doesn't seem very consistent with racial philosophies.
I can't say I like seeing one of the few by-design shield sentry boats go away, but I'm not space-rich enough spend the money on faction ships anyway. It certainly does appear to be further effort in removing things from the game that can be considered "versatile" or "all-purpose".
@Jenn aSide - I find that (elite NPCs notwithstanding) NPC aggro preference is generally mission specific. The NPCs in mission X will prefer to shoot at me, while those in mission Y will prefer to shoot at my drones. I can use light drones in X if I so choose; they'll hardly ever be molested. By the same token, I can play logi for my sentries in Y with dual large armor RRs and a large hull RR, and I'll never need to turn on the Domi's tank. The elites are the only NPCs that seem inclined to assess actual threat-levels. I admit, I would never have thought to try damping some random piece of scenery to create additional aggro; it certainly doesn't seem to follow any logical progression. What made you think to try that? |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:38:00 -
[664] - Quote
It makes perfect sense actually.
The Caldari are Capitalists.. So their ships are slow cause they sell all the good engines to the Sansha, and only leave the second rate stuff for capsuleres.. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4537
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:40:00 -
[665] - Quote
Has anyone checked out the fittings for the Ashimmu now that it's only -120 grid instead of -200? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:54:00 -
[666] - Quote
Overall, I like these changes. Makes me have to rethink how I use the Gila. But I think I can still figure out good setups with medium drones, especially with the drone changes coming this summer.
But please oh please, give us bonused Sentry drones on the Rattlesnake though. I hope we won't end up with just bonused Heavies on that hull which would make it too much of a niche utility ship. Would be unfair to do that to such a sweet looking ship :)
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Naomi Anthar
321
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:58:00 -
[667] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Has anyone checked out the fittings for the Ashimmu now that it's only -120 grid instead of -200?
Yeah which is actually pretty good. Removing one utility high (medium neut 175pwg) wasnt equal to 250 pwg nerf (you need to include skill ... lets not even mention implants) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4537
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:04:00 -
[668] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Has anyone checked out the fittings for the Ashimmu now that it's only -120 grid instead of -200? Yeah which is actually pretty good. Removing one utility high (medium neut 175pwg) wasnt equal to 250 pwg nerf (you need to include skill ... lets not even mention implants)
That's about what I had figured myself. Napkin math for the win.
So now it just looks like the choice is up between 3 turrets and 2 Nos, or 3 Nos and 2 turrets. I halfway imagine that the addition of a dronebay will make up for the loss of the third turret in that eventuality. Ought to end up decently close to it's previous DPS rating with 3 turrets. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
729
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:13:00 -
[669] - Quote
Jatok Reknar wrote:Overall, I like these changes. Makes me have to rethink how I use the Gila. But I think I can still figure out good setups with medium drones, especially with the drone changes coming this summer.
But please oh please, give us bonused Sentry drones on the Rattlesnake though. I hope we won't end up with just bonused Heavies on that hull which would make it too much of a niche utility ship. Would be unfair to do that to such a sweet looking ship :)
niche utility? .. it will end up with maybe 1 utility high and the rest of its highs will be bonused torps or cruises Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
696
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:39:00 -
[670] - Quote
I love what you have done with the Gila!
This is Just the sort of thinking that really gives some differentiation and interest.
I would suggest though you put in a bonus to counteract that fact, that there is now no sense in using light drones with the ship, to allow for very fast ships to be dealt with. Could be a problem even with the new Drone mechanics/Specs.
To prove my like, I bought a second tonight after seeing this before the market went berserk.
It will be a hell of a lot of fun. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2047
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Posted - 2014.04.09 00:45:00 -
[671] - Quote
There was an outcry against nerfing 90% webs because people are awful
Come on, do it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NflTOYuVJ0E BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3253
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Posted - 2014.04.09 01:31:00 -
[672] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Here, many months later, the Navy Raven is a very well regarded pve ship and even after the markets settled down is STILL way more expensive to by than the Fleet Typhoon (don't get me wrong, the Fleet phoon is great and I fly it, but the Navy Raven is something special....which we tried to explain way back then lol). And then there was the Navy Drake... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Icewolf7
Anomalous Existence
0
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Posted - 2014.04.09 01:43:00 -
[673] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
GILA
Gallente Cruiser Bonus: 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)
Caldari Cruiser Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 500% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)
Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1) Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 100(-300) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Signature radius: 145(-5)
Do you even use drones?
The Gila in its current version is a versatile ship but a little underpowered(Fitting wise), these changes however will effectively cut it out of all the Role's it currently can fill and add none that are practical.
So your going to turn the gila into a 2 medium drone boat with some extra missile damage? please find me 1 person who flies the Gila Now in pvp or pve that will continue to use it after these changes.
No more sentries? cant tower bash or snipe, no more heavies? No more close quarters brawling or structure grinding.
No drone boat exclusively uses Medium drones unless that's the best it can field, they use lights, heavy's, sentries and sometimes ECM.
The only thing these changes will accomplish is no one will continuously fly the Gila anymore past the 1st one they lose.
Need an alternative? First leave the drone's alone or maybe a slight nerf if needed to compensate for missile dmg buff (100 bandwidth from 125)
Imagine a Gila that had 4 Heavy's and 4 Heavy assault Missile launchers OR 4 sentries with 4 Heavy missile launcher
Fix the fittings to allow a decent missile SND tank load out.
Add some maneuverability to it, like the phantasm AB changes.
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Warmonger Murderalt
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.04.09 01:51:00 -
[674] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: The option we do feel good about is warp speed. It supports the hit and run playstyle that Angels are already best at without forcing us to make changes to the combat performance. So, we are looking at roughly a 50% increase in warp speed and acceleration for all three, putting the Cynabal at warp speed multiplier of 4.5, which is basically destroyer speed. I've also updated the OP with a new powergrid number.
We spent time playing with the Vigilant in a lot of different configurations and feel completely confident in the current fitting numbers.
Hope this makes you Angel fans more excited
I'd like to see these fittings. The only way the Vigilant isn't starved and power limited by being short on powergrid *right now* is with a full lower rack full of gank and a a mediocre shield tank. Pulling the currently listed amount of powergrid out is alright for that one fit. Anything tanked for the kind of ehp needed to brawl has 40-50 spare powergrid after implants and 4-9 powergrid without implants. No matter how I cut it this translates to about a 4-5k drop in ehp with my far from perfect skills.
But maybe I'm just not trying to fly this thing as dev's intended, because there's always oodles of CPU leftover. So post up the fits.
Cause I suspect what we'll see is silly pure gank no survival ships that are good for nothing real but baiting. When I looked at the Cynabal fits I use that are gank fit and meant to literally be bait in small gang pvp, I found that post changes, everything just barely fits, as if all the changes were made with autocannon gank fits in mind. The changes make perfect sense for the fits I have saved that are for small gang pvp. Artillery is still possible post changes but does require a little less durability which these fits were already light on but since it speed based anyway that's fine.
What I wish was there was a testing process where the devs would fit their ships with their proposed changes and then use the ships with/against players using current setups, and if the players wipe the floor with the devs the devs go back to the drawing board or agree to leave them alone. |
Aramis Rosicrux
Ghost Core Financial Underwriters Holding Quorum
20
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Posted - 2014.04.09 01:57:00 -
[675] - Quote
As a fan of the Ashimmu, I am flabbergasted at how weakened it now is. The ship was always indefendable, cutting its web bonus and the nost/neut nerfs together will make this a collector's item.
They should have just taken it behind the barn and put a bullet in its pointy little head.
Still the best looking ship in Eve though, or do you think they would screw that too?
Vigilant is now the ship to beat far and away the best cruiser in the game now. Gila with support will be a challenge to defeat as well.
If I owned a Cynbabal or a Phantasm I would be OMG rage quitting about now, but they always sucked this just cements their doom.
CCP Rise, why you such a hater???
BOO, I SAY. BOO!
================================================================================ -á Whats with all the freaking NERFS?-á Everytime I get a skill trained you ruin it.-á Quit breaking our game! |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises The Marmite Collective
81
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Posted - 2014.04.09 02:42:00 -
[676] - Quote
Hmmm... Some very nice changes and some very blah changes. Will have to think about these some. Gilas will flat suck while Phantasms will become FOTM. Ashimmu changes I'm still on the fence with... I think I would prefer current web bonus and hve the Neut/Nos range get extended out.
Overall though, Fittings are going to remain super tight if not worse. This part is fail CCP.
eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
King Rothgar
Aegis Interplanetary .Inc Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
401
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Posted - 2014.04.09 02:47:00 -
[677] - Quote
The Phantasm and Gila changes look very interesting, I can't wait to see just how they handle as they will be fairly unique. The Cynabal's new role bonus also matches it well, further putting it into "best frigate in the game" role. The Ashimmu I'm still not sold on (I did a lot of arguing against in the faction frigate thread).
The changes will allow substantially more dps, probably around 500 dps total with max skills and implants. This is on the low side for a faction cruiser. Tank will not be changing much, which is also reasonably average for a faction cruiser. The web range bonus is of questionable value. If you need more than 23km range, you're simply doing it wrong with this type of ship. Trading a high slot for a low does offer the greater dps but it comes at the expense of neuting. It's hard to say how that will balance out with the NOS changes without actually testing it. I'm not totally opposed to this change, but I have serious doubts about it. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
295
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Posted - 2014.04.09 02:52:00 -
[678] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/wvynW0r.png |
Martin Kato
ABOS Industrial Enterprises The Marmite Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.04.09 03:28:00 -
[679] - Quote
ok the vigilant has a PG of 1650 atm so if your knocking it down to 1050 which is only 25 more pg than its T1 variant the thorax, you are totally destroying this ship not only is it goin to kill the dps cause you wont be able to fit neutrons its goin to kill the tank, which this 235 mil isk ship is not goin to be worth much more than the thorax, so why would i waste my time even flyin it, I'm sorry but this is makin me angry the thorax is one of my favorite ships also the cpu is goin down by 100 points which i already am using almost all of it up with the current fit say bye bye to the 1600 plates might as well only have 5 low slots otherwise you wqont even be able to fit it properly just like the fail stratios and astero |
Martin Kato
ABOS Industrial Enterprises The Marmite Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.04.09 03:36:00 -
[680] - Quote
Sorry i was wrong my Vigilant has 1650 didnt take into account my implants. lolz
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Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach Full Metal Militia
46
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Posted - 2014.04.09 04:01:00 -
[681] - Quote
The Phantasm is my favorite PvE ship. In high and low sec it use it routinely for ratting.
While the changes mean making fitting changes, I can deal with that, I have already tried about a dozen fits. I am going to have to increases some fitting skills to get to the point where the extra low slot is useful. The loss of the high either means dropping a laser or carrying a mobile tractor. With a 250 m3 hold - the tractor means a very tight cargo space for loot and salvage. More returns to base during runs to drop loot.
The extra speed is nice, the AB bonus, too - but with the Grid and CPU where they are, I probably will not fit an AB, at least until I get my skills up.
I may when it is all said and done revert to a destroyer for high sec ratting and park my Phantasm for a couple of months.
5 more points of CPU and 5 of Grid would open some real possibilities for folks who are not max'ed on skills.
But wait - I am talking about PvE...........so never mind......balancing is about max skill players and PvP.
Silly me. |
Skarlet Hate
Angels of Ecstasy
0
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Posted - 2014.04.09 04:30:00 -
[682] - Quote
Devs hate Angel Cartel ships. Nerf it more. |
Chiana Moro
Infinite Conquest Li3 Federation
17
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Posted - 2014.04.09 05:58:00 -
[683] - Quote
And that is how you kill the Cynabal.
Looking forward to my gate camping Ash though, when I get back in game. |
Yankunytjatjara
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
106
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Posted - 2014.04.09 06:37:00 -
[684] - Quote
The ashimmu loses options with this "buff". Now, it can fit in a cool way some pimp neuts and noses, getting a range of around 20km for everything: 90% webs, scorch, point, and cap warfare.
After the buff, it can web targets in warp before pointing them... Yay... Unless it has a pimpy point and links, but it can't hurt that far anyways unless it comes in its target's web range, and has lost the web advantage. For fleet work it's overshadowed by all kinds of other ships.
Basically it loses its already tiny role - exactly like the cruor. Please just give them both a serpentis level damage bonus. Serpentis hurt armor, and BRs hurt shields. In this way, it'll be clear that some of the pirate lines have a role around speed+dps (angels, sansha), some around dps+utility (serps, BRs) and the guristas around dps+tank. My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3255
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Posted - 2014.04.09 06:50:00 -
[685] - Quote
Let's see the Pirate battleships already and get this over with... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
3566
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Posted - 2014.04.09 06:54:00 -
[686] - Quote
Yep...
The Ashimmu and the Vigilant has had their already tiny roles reduced even further.
You can get the same fit for the Vigi by lossing some of it's already small tank. The Ashimmu ability to hold down a target at range until support arrives. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS |
Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
44
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Posted - 2014.04.09 06:58:00 -
[687] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Let's see the Pirate battleships already and get this over with... i got hyped by the idea of a passive rattler with heavy drone focus for missions |
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc. Reverberation Project
43
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Posted - 2014.04.09 07:46:00 -
[688] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:Hooti Yasunaga wrote:Hey CCP RIse
Would it be possible to get a response to the many comments calling for a nerf of 90% webs in this thread which you appear to have so far over looked?
Thanks Read the forums more. It's been said, flat out, the 90% webs are NOT leaving the Serpentis Line. The goal of the pirate lines is to make all pirate faction ships AS good as the Serpentis line, not nerf them into the ground because you don't know how to keep range. Quick name 5 ships appreciably faster than a daredevil dramiel, stiletto, slasher, claw, atron, ares.... |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
561
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Posted - 2014.04.09 07:57:00 -
[689] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt wrote:What's the reason CCP decided neutrons can't be fitted in vigilant? Give up pg penalty. Neutrons fit fine. With ions you can even fit double 1600 plate [Vigilant, New Setup 2] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Ancillary Current Router II
I only see a resulting nerf of ~20% buffer and 5% dps/ bit more range being lost. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
31
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Posted - 2014.04.09 08:15:00 -
[690] - Quote
Xequecal wrote: I'm pretty sure that the Gila will output more drone DPS against T3s than an Ishtar with Ogres. Even with a tracking bonus, Ogres will not apply full DPS to cruisers.
Ishtar Ogre IIs do apply full dps to cruisers. Even without an Omni or webs.
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