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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:54:00 -
[1261] - Quote
I was crunching some numbers and found that a medium drone is typically worth half the DPS of it's race's heavy drone. If you have 2 drones at 5 times power you essentially have the power equivalent of 5 unbonused heavy drones but in a much faster package that applies damage better. The old damage bonus used with heavy drones essentially gave you 7.5 heavy drones worth of DPS.
So basically you lose 2.5 heavy drones worth of DPS by using heavily bonused medium drones.
They added 1 launcher to the Gila, and if you use the proper damage type you essentially gain 2 more launchers. So you basically gain 3 launchers worth of DPS total.
TL/DR The gila loses 2.5 heavy drones worth of drone DPS and gains 3 launchers worth of DPS when using Kin or Thermal missiles.
All in all this is a net loss of DPS on paper as adding 3 heavy launchers doesn't quite make up for the loss of 2.5 heavy drones worth of DPS.
One could argue that actual DPS could go up as medium drones apply damage better and if you factor travel time into the DPS equation you might gain DPS by spending less time to get in range. (Ex, 5 seconds travel and 5 seconds attacking versus 2 seconds travel and 8 seconds attacking in the same 10 second window of time) |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:32:00 -
[1262] - Quote
Antonio Steele wrote:I was crunching some numbers and found that a medium drone is typically worth half the DPS of it's race's heavy drone. If you have 2 drones at 5 times power you essentially have the power equivalent of 5 unbonused heavy drones but in a much faster package that applies damage better. The old damage bonus used with heavy drones essentially gave you 7.5 heavy drones worth of DPS.
So basically you lose 2.5 heavy drones worth of DPS by using heavily bonused medium drones.
They added 1 launcher to the Gila, and if you use the proper damage type you essentially gain 2 more launchers. So you basically gain 3 launchers worth of DPS total.
TL/DR The gila loses 2.5 heavy drones worth of drone DPS and gains 3 launchers worth of DPS when using Kin or Thermal missiles.
All in all this is a net loss of DPS on paper as adding 3 heavy launchers doesn't quite make up for the loss of 2.5 heavy drones worth of DPS.
One could argue that actual DPS could go up as medium drones apply damage better and if you factor travel time into the DPS equation you might gain DPS by spending less time to get in range. (Ex, 5 seconds travel and 5 seconds attacking versus 2 seconds travel and 8 seconds attacking in the same 10 second window of time) You did the math wrong. It still does the equivalent of 7.5 Heavies in damage. And now it applies said damage much better up close, although not at range.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1803
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 22:43:00 -
[1263] - Quote
Launching a Gecko from a Gila would've been cool. Just sayin'. |
LtauSTinpoWErs
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
31
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Posted - 2014.05.20 16:36:00 -
[1264] - Quote
Will the Gila's role bonus effect ewar drones? It won't be able to field a full flight of light drones such as warrior iis or ec-300s so I think it would be interesting if all of the medium sized ewar drones benefited from the gila's "damage" bonus as well.
Edit, based on recent eft files, it doesn't look like the hitpoint bonus effects medium sized ewar drones either. CCP can you confirm if the gila bonuses will effect the hitpoints/offensive power of medium sized ewar drones? |
Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13505
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:27:00 -
[1265] - Quote
I wonder if the Ashimmu will play out as a strong kiter... I mean, it has dual 20km webs, and with a major speed boost coming as well as an extra low slot, it seems plausible. Also, it is possible to keep the capacitor up with Nosferatu as a-types have 19.5km range.
I wouldn't expect to see it as a full blown kiter -mostly because it will still lack speed and agility, and not using a cap booster means your cap is very weak and therefore not really able to use an active tank- but the possibility is definitely there. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
366
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:29:00 -
[1266] - Quote
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:I wonder if the Ashimmu will play out as a strong kiter... I mean, it has dual 20km webs, and with a major speed boost coming as well as an extra low slot, it seems plausible. Also, it is possible to keep the capacitor up with Nosferatu as a-types have 19.5km range.
I wouldn't expect to see it as a full blown kiter -mostly because it will still lack speed and agility, and not using a cap booster means your cap is very weak and therefore not really able to use an active tank- but the possibility is definitely there. it would need 5 mids to do long point kiting. it cant |
LtauSTinpoWErs
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
31
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:14:00 -
[1267] - Quote
CCP, any word on whether the Gurista line of ships bonuses will effect ewar drones? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
819
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:55:00 -
[1268] - Quote
the sansha line still need some improved agility for sure... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:24:00 -
[1269] - Quote
LtauSTinpoWErs wrote:CCP, any word on whether the Gurista line of ships bonuses will effect ewar drones? No effect, and as such they are quite bad on them compared to before. Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
128
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:35:00 -
[1270] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Launching a Gecko from a Gila would've been cool. Just sayin'. You can do that today :p |
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
598
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 12:01:00 -
[1271] - Quote
Some feedback from the test server though:
Phantasm is pretty wonky. 6 mids allow for various things, but even with 3 heat sinks it struggles to break 450dps (It goes up to some 550 with IN Multi/Conflag - but then you're running into med neut range). It is a defensive dream, but the total lack of adequate offenses do hinder it a lot. AB-speeds were mostly about 1.5km/s to 1.9km/s depending on nanos - linked. While this is quite useful to keep range, you're running belo your own tracking in a tight orbit :S
Cynabal is lackluster. It's obviously the worst by far of those new pirate ships, being stuck with projectile weapons. High warpspeed is nice and allows for some nice drive-bys, but in comparison it is very underperforming on grid. I dare to say their TQ prices dropped through the floor for a reason. It would surely be a great ship with different weaponry, but with projectiles, this is actually trash. Thankfully, Mordus will fill that void perfectly, doing the exact things the cyna did till now - but better.
Vigilant got buffed. Goes faster. Else quite the same, less buffer avaiable though since you now need to plug your rigslots with ACRs.
Gila is wonderful. It's like the return of the Podladrake, just better. Dualweb/longpoint, double nano and either heavy assaults or rapid lights and an mwd will have you running at 2.2km/s with acceptable agility without links and 2.8km/s with links, cold. To that, 750dps of which a bit is therm/kin bound and most is freely selectable. It's awesome and in my opinion a winner among those pirate ships. There are other things it can do aswell, they just blow in comparison to dualweb.
Ashimmu is different now. Unless you're flying a boat with autocannons/blasters, don't panic as it's not a real threat on its own,. It should have the chance to become a wonderful fleet support ship - especially with thse 6 lows now. A cheap webbing loki alternative with not that much less buffer and just drastically worse resistances.
So imo: Winner: Gila, Vigilant Wonky, but got their niche: Ashimmu, Phantasm Loser: Cynabal (But it's job will be taken over by mordu's ships) "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Zamyslinski
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
9
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Posted - 2014.05.23 19:12:00 -
[1272] - Quote
Tried to fit the cynabal,
the ship is not fittable you cant even fit a 425ac fit as earlier wtf? not even because the pg nerf its lacking those 15 CPU
arty fit is totally unfittable even with faction power diagnostic system
Fozzie can you explain the reasoning behind this? Like 4 real ******* explain the reasoning im customer im paying i want to know why my hamburger tastes like ****! |
Zamyslinski
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:14:00 -
[1273] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Some feedback from the test server though:
Phantasm is pretty wonky. 6 mids allow for various things, but even with 3 heat sinks it struggles to break 450dps (It goes up to some 550 with IN Multi/Conflag - but then you're running into med neut range). It is a defensive dream, but the total lack of adequate offenses do hinder it a lot. AB-speeds were mostly about 1.5km/s to 1.9km/s depending on nanos - linked. While this is quite useful to keep range, you're running belo your own tracking in a tight orbit :S
Cynabal is lackluster. It's obviously the worst by far of those new pirate ships, being stuck with projectile weapons. High warpspeed is nice and allows for some nice drive-bys, but in comparison it is very underperforming on grid. I dare to say their TQ prices dropped through the floor for a reason. It would surely be a great ship with different weaponry, but with projectiles, this is actually trash. Thankfully, Mordus will fill that void perfectly, doing the exact things the cyna did till now - but better.
Vigilant got buffed. Goes faster. Else quite the same, less buffer avaiable though since you now need to plug your rigslots with ACRs.
Gila is wonderful. It's like the return of the Podladrake, just better. Dualweb/longpoint, double nano and either heavy assaults or rapid lights and an mwd will have you running at 2.2km/s with acceptable agility without links and 2.8km/s with links, cold. To that, 750dps of which a bit is therm/kin bound and most is freely selectable. It's awesome and in my opinion a winner among those pirate ships. There are other things it can do aswell, they just blow in comparison to dualweb.
Ashimmu is different now. Unless you're flying a boat with autocannons/blasters, don't panic as it's not a real threat on its own,. It should have the chance to become a wonderful fleet support ship - especially with thse 6 lows now. A cheap webbing loki alternative with not that much less buffer and just drastically worse resistances.
So imo: Winner: Gila, Vigilant Wonky, but got their niche: Ashimmu, Phantasm Loser: Cynabal (But it's job will be taken over by mordu's ships)
except mordus ships will be **** when it comes to aplying dmg so 3 assault frigs will **** you up unless you use rapids (and still get dunked due to reload time)
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Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
599
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:11:00 -
[1274] - Quote
Zamyslinski wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Some feedback from the test server though:
Phantasm is pretty wonky. 6 mids allow for various things, but even with 3 heat sinks it struggles to break 450dps (It goes up to some 550 with IN Multi/Conflag - but then you're running into med neut range). It is a defensive dream, but the total lack of adequate offenses do hinder it a lot. AB-speeds were mostly about 1.5km/s to 1.9km/s depending on nanos - linked. While this is quite useful to keep range, you're running belo your own tracking in a tight orbit :S
Cynabal is lackluster. It's obviously the worst by far of those new pirate ships, being stuck with projectile weapons. High warpspeed is nice and allows for some nice drive-bys, but in comparison it is very underperforming on grid. I dare to say their TQ prices dropped through the floor for a reason. It would surely be a great ship with different weaponry, but with projectiles, this is actually trash. Thankfully, Mordus will fill that void perfectly, doing the exact things the cyna did till now - but better.
Vigilant got buffed. Goes faster. Else quite the same, less buffer avaiable though since you now need to plug your rigslots with ACRs.
Gila is wonderful. It's like the return of the Podladrake, just better. Dualweb/longpoint, double nano and either heavy assaults or rapid lights and an mwd will have you running at 2.2km/s with acceptable agility without links and 2.8km/s with links, cold. To that, 750dps of which a bit is therm/kin bound and most is freely selectable. It's awesome and in my opinion a winner among those pirate ships. There are other things it can do aswell, they just blow in comparison to dualweb.
Ashimmu is different now. Unless you're flying a boat with autocannons/blasters, don't panic as it's not a real threat on its own,. It should have the chance to become a wonderful fleet support ship - especially with thse 6 lows now. A cheap webbing loki alternative with not that much less buffer and just drastically worse resistances.
So imo: Winner: Gila, Vigilant Wonky, but got their niche: Ashimmu, Phantasm Loser: Cynabal (But it's job will be taken over by mordu's ships) except mordus ships will be **** when it comes to aplying dmg so 3 assault frigs will **** you up unless you use rapids (and still get dunked due to reload time)
Tried 100mn orthrus. Didn't care for frigs, dictors, recons. Got stuck getting podla'd by two mwd RLM-Orthrus. Died when I ran out of cap boosters.
100mn RLM orthus is amazing. Scram, web or point, med CB, med neut. RLMs.
Edit: EFT says, the TQ version will run 2.6km/s at 85m sig, I tried 2.2km/s at 85m. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Ellendras Silver
My second corp
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 23:03:00 -
[1275] - Quote
Zamyslinski wrote:Tried to fit the cynabal,
the ship is not fittable you cant even fit a 425ac fit as earlier wtf? not even because the pg nerf its lacking those 15 CPU
arty fit is totally unfittable even with faction power diagnostic system
Fozzie can you explain the reasoning behind this? Like 4 real ******* explain the reasoning im customer im paying i want to know why my hamburger tastes like ****!
QFT FIX FORUMS |
Xhiucoatl Montezuma
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
19
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Posted - 2014.05.24 08:01:00 -
[1276] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:I'm going to miss my sentry Gila setup, but if that five-hundred-percent boost to medium drones isn't a typo, that could be a very interesting bonus setup ... especially with the added CPU, which the Gila needed rather desperately...
I hated the Gila until I fit it with Sentries then I loved its flexibility! fitted it like a mini marauder, or as an exploration ship with some serious dps! ... and tbh I dont think I need a cruiser sized Worm, Ill just fly a worm.
Guess I'm switching to Ishtar and we will see how the new gila pans out., but two drones seems like an achilles heel for pvp.
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Viribus
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
260
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 00:56:00 -
[1277] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejmzGelUWpY |
Vylan Fenrir
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 15:12:00 -
[1278] - Quote
I absolutely hate what's being done to the cynabal , the nerf is too severe. I love my cyna and want to keep using it to effectively run DED sites with 720mm tech 2 turrets, i dont want to have to step towards a cerberus to solo 4/10 sites
Seriously though, i wont bother subscribing if you guys ruin my favorite ship by cutting off it's manhood. |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
545
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 21:02:00 -
[1279] - Quote
Viribus wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejmzGelUWpY gr7 vid m9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13507
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 21:19:00 -
[1280] - Quote
Poor Cynabal :( It had pretty limited CPU compared to the Vagabond and the only real thing it had was PG to play around with and the EPIC scan resolution. I mean, it also has great agility over the Vagabond which it is keeping, but that seems kinda "meh" compared to what it is losing.
Zamyslinski wrote: except mordus ships will be **** when it comes to aplying dmg so 3 assault frigs will **** you up unless you use rapids (and still get dunked due to reload time)
Let's just forget that the Orthrus is faster than every AF in game save for Minmatar ones, and that those AFs have to burn a large distance to come close at which point one of them will be dead and the one that gets tackle will be neuted while the other one will be scrammed before it can close in. Also, each of them would need 13k EHP while being that fast for ONE of them to barely survive the first clip of RLML ammo, and then there's whatever drone DPS is being applied.
So yes, if you have 3 nano Jaguars with a nice shield tank, you can watch all of them die as they burn 100km from your gang. Wonderful.
Anyways, Scram/Web/Ham is pretty legit if you don't care for the RLML kite, and this isn't the Mordu thread. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
711
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Posted - 2014.05.25 21:54:00 -
[1281] - Quote
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:Poor Cynabal :( It had pretty limited CPU compared to the Vagabond and the only real thing it had was PG to play around with and the EPIC scan resolution. I mean, it also has great agility over the Vagabond which it is keeping, but that seems kinda "meh" compared to what it is losing. Zamyslinski wrote: except mordus ships will be **** when it comes to aplying dmg so 3 assault frigs will **** you up unless you use rapids (and still get dunked due to reload time)
Let's just forget that the Orthrus is faster than every AF in game save for Minmatar ones, and that those AFs have to burn a large distance to come close at which point one of them will be dead and the one that gets tackle will be neuted while the other one will be scrammed before it can close in. Also, each of them would need 13k EHP while being that fast for ONE of them to barely survive the first clip of RLML ammo, and then there's whatever drone DPS is being applied. So yes, if you have 3 nano Jaguars with a nice shield tank, you can watch all of them die as they burn 100km from your gang. Wonderful. Anyways, Scram/Web/Ham is pretty legit if you don't care for the RLML kite, and this isn't the Mordu thread.
it's faster than a wolf, it's only slower than a jag (probably). jags have less dps than most t1 frigates though. just when you thought AFs couldn't get any worse. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
603
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 00:50:00 -
[1282] - Quote
If you got mjolnir navy loaded and no crash/rigors/flares, you need 3 volleys to kill a roaming Enyo and ~5 for an MSE Ares. Wouldn't say it's particularly vulnerable to frigates, especially as it has the grid to fit oversized prop. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
510
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Posted - 2014.05.27 01:30:00 -
[1283] - Quote
So, Guristas line is now unusable? Glad I sold mine.
I mean, seriously, this is like giving a battleship a strip miner bonus. |
Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13509
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 02:54:00 -
[1284] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:So, Guristas line is now unusable? Glad I sold mine.
I mean, seriously, this is like giving a battleship a strip miner bonus.
...what?
Gila is strong, and so is the Worm. Rattlesnake is becoming better at PvE due to extra damage, and is able to hit frigates with Gecko drones in PvP so you really should think things over again.
First, Guristas are getting DPS around as high as Serpentis line on every ship. Second, they are getting improved fitting and more effective flights than a lot of other drone boats. Third, speed is going up for their ships as well as medium+heavy drone velocity and drone AI is being buffed so that they do not stop after firing a volley. Fourth, the missile bonus synergizes with every missile system in the game, and is viable for Rapid Missile Launchers.
I wish I had bought yours cheap instead of being a money hog. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
ugh zug
99
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 06:40:00 -
[1285] - Quote
Gila with the -105 drone bandwidth makes me wonder if this will be even worth buying over a sentry Ishtar.
Quick, someone do the maths~ Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
390
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 06:41:00 -
[1286] - Quote
all these cynabears crying cuz they cant fit all t2 largest tank and guns anymore without grid rigs or co-pro's
LOL |
Zamyslinski
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
10
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Posted - 2014.05.27 06:59:00 -
[1287] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:all these cynabears crying cuz they cant fit all t2 largest tank and guns anymore without grid rigs or co-pro's
LOL
you do reaise you can fit all other criusers without any compromise?
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Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13509
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 07:22:00 -
[1288] - Quote
Zamyslinski wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:all these cynabears crying cuz they cant fit all t2 largest tank and guns anymore without grid rigs or co-pro's
LOL you do reaise you can fit all other criusers without any compromise?
I would imagine that module tiercide might introduce more options for fitting choices on, say, the Ashimmu or a Curse. Right now, there's almost literally no variation in the effectiveness of the E-war modules themselves, so your statement should not be for the Cynabal getting the fitting space back, but about this sort of change affecting every ship in EVE Online.
For instance, if there were many different flavors of energy neutralizers inbetween or built around the small/med/heavy categories, so you could choose to fit either (for the Pilgrim) a 1600mm plate, OR a really awesome rack of medium neuts that hit out to 17.5km, as a random example. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
Zamyslinski
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 10:02:00 -
[1289] - Quote
Doesnt change the fakt taht wit the gimp of cyna fittings the ship got totally underpowered and wont be worth flying it after patch.
Will be a bit faster stabber, hell i can push 500 dps on a stabber witch is slightly slower so why would i want to pay 150 mil more to get 200m/s and little bit more resists? |
Sicha Starlight
BALKAN EXPRESS
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 10:26:00 -
[1290] - Quote
Gila was awesome versatile ship, primarily because it could hold a lot of drones (which a drone boat is) now after nerf of it it has become practically unusable I sometimes wonder at the decisions you made it's like you get drunk and even without thinking or any logic you just came with some idea that "sounds" cool at that particular time.
Not to sound like someone who likes a certain ship and now just mad because of nerf here are my arguments:
- Drone boat uses primarily drones so it needs ... well drones - There is NO other drone/shield cruiser - 500% drone dmg/hit point is just poor man's excuse for taking the primary role of the ship - 1 launcher is not compensation for loosing drones - not all drones are used for dmg o.O
Conclusion either you wanted to "push" people into flying Astero/Stratios which is rude and so not cool. Or like I sad you thought you had a cool idea.
Very, very disappointed
Anyways I guess wormhole exploration with Gila is a NoGo, and using Gila at all! |
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