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Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
210
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Posted - 2014.04.11 10:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
My armageddon once got hit by a volley from a phoenix. It remved all of my shield. That might look good, but unfortunately for the phoenix I was armour tanked... And I wasnt moving because I was bad... So yeah, that tells a whole lot about how bad the phoenix is! |
AppleBanana
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Didn't Phoenix used to be able to have a turret equipped back in the old days? I seem to remember seeing a picture of one with a blaster fitted for lulz xD |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
351
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So many people so wrong about 1 dread.
Case study in how the meta is slow to adapt I guess |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
623
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nothing wrong with the Phoenix. It hits POS mods for full damage. Train your missile support skills.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2438
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
So just to take a dump on James, who literally doesn't know anything about cap ships but loves to post like he might, how many people here watched the stream of B-R?
I ask because people discount the Phoenix saying that anything moving can sig tank its missiles.
Turns out Lords Servant proved them wrong about 2 weeks ago when his fairly simply fit Phoenix laid waste to a fairly ridiculous number of sub caps before dropping siege and jumping out. Every target was moving, and nearly every one was vollied instantly.
Cap brawls are no different, B-R showed a good thousand cap ships locked in combat...holding perfectly still.
So here sits a large group of EVE players swearing the Phoenix is bad, while it has easily twice the tank of any other dread and does 140k alpha, to a target thats not likely moving at all. Not to mention that it is the king of structure shooting.
Instead of listening to what people tell you about a ship, sometimes its good to just go on out and try it for yourself and see how it works. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1365
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So just to take a dump on James, who literally doesn't know anything about cap ships but loves to post like he might, how many people here watched the stream of B-R?
I ask because people discount the Phoenix saying that anything moving can sig tank its missiles.
Turns out Lords Servant proved them wrong about 2 weeks ago when his fairly simply fit Phoenix laid waste to a fairly ridiculous number of sub caps before dropping siege and jumping out. Every target was moving, and nearly every one was vollied instantly.
Cap brawls are no different, B-R showed a good thousand cap ships locked in combat...holding perfectly still.
So here sits a large group of EVE players swearing the Phoenix is bad, while it has easily twice the tank of any other dread and does 140k alpha, to a target thats not likely moving at all. Not to mention that it is the king of structure shooting.
Instead of listening to what people tell you about a ship, sometimes its good to just go on out and try it for yourself and see how it works. Thanks for the reply, a follow up question, if you will: The Titans in B-R were indeed holding perfectly still, but how hard is it really for a titan pilot to doubleclick in space or hit orbit? And wouldn't that speed be sufficient to mitigate a large chunk of the phoenix's damage? I would imagine this is what would happen if people started fielding the phoenix en masse. |
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
651
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Man, am so confused, some people say Phoenix is the worst of the worst, others that its best thing since sliced bread, Think I may just train carriers,
Question is , which carrier is best and which worst??
Here we go again............ Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
351
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:And wouldn't that speed be sufficient to mitigate a large chunk of the phoenix's damage?
No. In fact an Avatar moving at it's full speed of 75 m/s would mitigate exactly none of the Phoenix's damage.
Also, a question for you;
Where did you get this idea?
As a follow up question;
Do you not have access to EFT?
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9365
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So just to take a dump on James, who literally doesn't know anything about cap ships but loves to post like he might, how many people here watched the stream of B-R?
I ask because people discount the Phoenix saying that anything moving can sig tank its missiles. That's funny because I've consistently said otherwise.
Grath Telkin wrote:Turns out Lords Servant proved them wrong about 2 weeks ago when his fairly simply fit Phoenix laid waste to a fairly ridiculous number of sub caps before dropping siege and jumping out. Every target was moving, and nearly every one was vollied instantly. And if he could do it in a Phoenix he could do it better in any other dreadnought. Only an idiot says it's impossible, but the equations don't lie - capital missiles aren't good for hitting subcaps.
Grath Telkin wrote:Cap brawls are no different, B-R showed a good thousand cap ships locked in combat...holding perfectly still. Yeah, if you're going to be brawling other caps the Phoenix is a decent option. Probably better than the Revelation. It's certainly better for structure shoots.
Oh by the way, the Revelation sucks too.
"Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9365
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:Man, am so confused, some people say Phoenix is the worst of the worst, others that its best thing since sliced bread, Think I may just train carriers, Question is , which carrier is best and which worst?? Here we go again............ Thanatos is the only carrier that gets a fighter damage bonus. Fighters are getting a huge buff. It also gets a bonus to capital remote armor repairer range and capital remote shield booster range.
Archon is the only carrier that gets an armor resist bonus. It also has bonuses to capital remote armor repair range and capital remote capacitor transmitter range.
Chimera is basically the same as the Archon except its bonuses are to shield resist and remote shield booster range instead of the armor stuff. It also has more slots for tank (7 medium 4 low, instead of the Archon's 7 low, as well as 4 mids that aren't useful for tank).
Nidhoggur is really good for repairing structures since it's the only carrier that gets a bonus to repair amount, both on shield as well as armor. It also has a remote shield and remote armor range bonus.
They're really all situational but as far as PVP goes right now the Archon and Chimera are the more popular options because of the combination between high resists and the repair range bonuses. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1365
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:And wouldn't that speed be sufficient to mitigate a large chunk of the phoenix's damage? No. In fact an Avatar moving at it's full speed of 75 m/s would mitigate exactly none of the Phoenix's damage. Also, a question for you; Where did you get this idea? As a follow up question; Do you not have access to EFT? I asked a question in a discussion forum where I knew people knowledgeable about the subject were posting. The question was relevant, and seeing as no one had actually tossed any numbers around, resulted in someone else (you) putting at least one number on the field.
No, I did not have access to EFT, at the time of typing that I was in traffic on my way to a meeting. And it seemed like good information to have in a thread such as this one.
Thanks for your reply, it told me exactly what I wanted to know. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9365
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
People get confused by things like explosion velocity and think that the game starts taking away from your damage as soon as you go above that number.
Doesn't work that way. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1168
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
The "supercaps can speed-tank citadel missiles" nonsense comes up in every single Phoenix thread.
The blap Phoenix thing is a result of the readily predictable damage of missiles and the massive volley damage. It's a nice trick and it shouldn't really be a surprise to people, but I don't think it's a practical fitting strategy for common use. Using Rigours instead of SMCs cripples the tank in small fights, leaving you significantly inferior in damage and tank to a Naglfar, while in large fleet fights the delayed damage is awkward to deal with. And, frankly, with that amount of painter and web support the other dreads can do the blap game pretty well too, particularly in larger fights with multiple dreads where you can't get under everyone's guns. So I think it's a nice trick but it doesn't make the ship good or give it a role. Against other capitals, it just doesn't do enough damage to justifty use, despite the tank.
Also, I don't really understand this attitude that the Phoenix is the best anti-structure dread. It has better damage in the 45-55 km window than a dual-TC Moros or dual-TE Naglfar, sure, but that hardly matters if you're just plonking dreads down at 35 km to hit a tower. It only seems to be an advantage if you just want to sit in one place while shooting POS defences. |
Paikis
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1149
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:And if he could do it in a Phoenix he could do it better in any other dreadnought. Only an idiot says it's impossible, but the equations don't lie - capital missiles aren't good for hitting subcaps.
While this isn't untrue, it isn't the whole story. ALL capital weapons are bad at hitting subcaps.
Gun dreads however have tracking to deal with, and when you're sitting on an undock (i.e very short range), even under webs and paints, a gun dread will simply miss every single shot it takes. The Phoenix however, never misses, it simply does reduced damage, and even if you reduce the damage it does by 95%... well 5% of 130,000 is still 6,500 damage per shot.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Yeah, if you're going to be brawling other caps the Phoenix is a decent option. Probably better than the Revelation. It's certainly better for structure shoots.
Oh by the way, the Revelation sucks too.
The Rev doesn't suck, you're just using it for things that is isn't the best choice for.
The Rev has the lowest DPS for the gun dreads at close range. move the range farther out and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start getting shot, and it's tank advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start being neuted, where it's cap advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad.
But yes, if you're at <30km ranges shooting a target that isn't moving, while not being shot or neuted yourself, the Revelation is the worst dread. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1168
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Posted - 2014.04.12 09:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Paikis wrote:
The Rev has the lowest DPS for the gun dreads at close range. move the range farther out and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start getting shot, and it's tank advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad. Start being neuted, where it's cap advantage comes into play and suddenly it isn't so bad.
But yes, if you're at <30km ranges shooting a target that isn't moving, while not being shot or neuted yourself, the Revelation is the worst dread.
I'm not seeing this either, unfortunately. Comparing a dual-TE Naglfar with a dual-TC Moros and dual-TC Rev indicates that both Moros and Naglfar outdamages and outtrack the Rev at all ranges. |
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