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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 42 post(s) |
Mare Nardieu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:35:00 -
[4081] - Quote
Huh, ok then....always failed at math I have. |
Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
45
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:35:00 -
[4082] - Quote
Mare Nardieu wrote:Even with just being able to deploy only 2 Heavies or sentries? That doesn't
Here's how it works. Currently, every drone launched from the rattle snake gets +50% damage and hp (at max skills). This equates to 7.5 effective drones on a non-bonused drone ship. After the buff, the rattlesnake can launch only two drones, but each of those gets +275% health and damage, again equating to 7.5 effective drones.
EDIT: someone else beat me to it. Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right!
Proud Rattlesnake pilot. |
Mare Nardieu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:40:00 -
[4083] - Quote
Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6473
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:43:00 -
[4084] - Quote
Mare Nardieu wrote:Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot.
It's basically getting it's dps doubled.
The only "loss" is of light drones, which are rather pointless when you have fully bonused missiles to go with the sentry drones. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Mare Nardieu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:47:00 -
[4085] - Quote
The only point i could see for light drones is if your heavies cant hit frigs, other then that I haven't used lights on a Rattle since my sentries can take out a frig at 20 to 90 km easily and my heavies can track them fairly decently as well.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6473
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:50:00 -
[4086] - Quote
Mare Nardieu wrote:The only point i could see for light drones is if your heavies cant hit frigs, other then that I haven't used lights on a Rattle since my sentries can take out a frig at 20 to 90 km easily and my heavies can track them fairly decently as well.
In addition, they recently released a superheavy drone called the Gecko. It uses 50mb of bandwidth, hits as hard as two Ogre IIs, is faster than a Valkyrie, and eats frigates like popcorn. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Mare Nardieu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:53:00 -
[4087] - Quote
One of the reasons i was a little upset about the changes. Ive got like 12 geckos and have been loving using two of them in my Rattlesnake. Also I like your and Joe Boirele's quotes |
Kueyen
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
88
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:54:00 -
[4088] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's basically getting it's dps doubled. Hyperbole. It's getting 3.5 additional launchers, IF using thermal or kinetic missiles. Hardly a doubling of the existing 4 launchers + 7.5 heavy drones damage. And there are plenty that agree that that +3.5 launchers is balanced by the loss of light and medium drone bonusses. Thus, the Rattlesnake is changing, but it's barely getting better.
- Vindicator ~1B
- Nightmare ~900M
- Bhaalgorn ~850M
- Machariel ~800M
- Rattlesnake ~600M on a good day
And that isn't going to change in the Rattlesnake's favour any time soon... |
Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
46
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:22:00 -
[4089] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's basically getting it's dps doubled. Hyperbole. It's getting 1 additional launcher, and 2.5 more IF using thermal or kinetic missiles. Hardly a doubling of the existing 4 launchers + 7.5 heavy drones damage. And there are plenty that agree that that +3.5 launchers is balanced by the loss of light and medium drone bonusses. Thus, the Rattlesnake is changing, but it's barely getting better.
- Vindicator ~1B
- Nightmare ~900M
- Bhaalgorn ~850M
- Machariel ~800M
- Rattlesnake ~600M on a good day
And that isn't going to change in the Rattlesnake's favour any time soon...
Market speculation doesn't really mean anything. Low price doesn't necessarily mean that demand is low, it can also mean that supply is high, or a combination of both. In addition, we also have to contend with people buying it in the hope that the price will rise after the update, so market prices are extremely hard to actually get data from, mainly because I'm pretty sure everyone who had rattlesnake BPCs is building them right now, and probably selling them too. Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right!
Proud Rattlesnake pilot. |
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
16
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:40:00 -
[4090] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's basically getting it's dps doubled. Hyperbole. It's getting 1 additional launcher, and 2.5 more IF using thermal or kinetic missiles. Hardly a doubling of the existing 4 launchers + 7.5 heavy drones damage. And there are plenty that agree that that +3.5 launchers is balanced by the loss of light and medium drone bonusses. Thus, the Rattlesnake is changing, but it's barely getting better.
- Vindicator ~1B
- Nightmare ~900M
- Bhaalgorn ~850M
- Machariel ~800M
- Rattlesnake ~600M on a good day
And that isn't going to change in the Rattlesnake's favour any time soon...
Just what we needed another fail argument based off of fail econ. Good job. Thanks for playing.
This might help you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6481
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Posted - 2014.05.22 21:18:00 -
[4091] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's basically getting it's dps doubled. Hyperbole. It's getting 1 additional launcher, and 2.5 more IF using thermal or kinetic missiles. Hardly a doubling of the existing 4 launchers + 7.5 heavy drones damage. And there are plenty that agree that that +3.5 launchers is balanced by the loss of light and medium drone bonusses. Thus, the Rattlesnake is changing, but it's barely getting better.
- Vindicator ~1B
- Nightmare ~900M
- Bhaalgorn ~850M
- Machariel ~800M
- Rattlesnake ~600M on a good day
And that isn't going to change in the Rattlesnake's favour any time soon...
I guess you missed the part where Goonswarm, the people who have the majority of access to the Rattlesnake BPCs in the game, dumped a few thousand of them on the market the moment it went above 600 mil per ship?
Bound to have some depreciating effects. After all, it's the first time the ship has been remotely worth a damn in years. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
44
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Posted - 2014.05.23 03:19:00 -
[4092] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: After all, it's the first time the ship has been remotely worth a damn in years.
Na, you're an idiot. It has only been recentyl outclassed with the rebalancing that has happened to other ships and the omni and resist nerfs.
The new Rattlesnake is in a worse position than it was before, still doing less real dps than other pirate faction battleships while now having increased weaknesses to faster ships in pvp via loss of bonuses on all drones+ loss missile velocity bonus +loss of 400m3 drone bay.
It would be a lot better off if it just got more high/mid/low slots. 5 drones is better than 1
Mare Nardieu wrote:
Is it just me or does the idea of lowering the Drone Bandwidth form 125 to 50 and giving the Rattlesnake a role bonus of 275% bonus dmg and HP to Heavy and Sentry drones seem like a kick in the pants.
it really is. |
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.05.23 03:50:00 -
[4093] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: After all, it's the first time the ship has been remotely worth a damn in years. Na, you're an idiot. It has only been recentyl outclassed with the rebalancing that has happened to other ships and the omni and resist nerfs.
Quote:Post your fit, Rod.
Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11707
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 03:58:00 -
[4094] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:
Vindicator ~1B Nightmare ~900M Bhaalgorn ~850M Machariel ~800M Rattlesnake ~600M on a good day [/list] And that isn't going to change in the Rattlesnake's favour any time soon...
We are dumping something like 8 years worth of stock on the market. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
653
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Posted - 2014.05.23 05:09:00 -
[4095] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mare Nardieu wrote:The only point i could see for light drones is if your heavies cant hit frigs, other then that I haven't used lights on a Rattle since my sentries can take out a frig at 20 to 90 km easily and my heavies can track them fairly decently as well.
In addition, they recently released a superheavy drone called the Gecko. It uses 50mb of bandwidth, hits as hard as two Ogre IIs, is faster than a Valkyrie, and eats frigates like popcorn.
The Gecko changes drone balance about as much as the Gnosis changes Battlecruiser balance, unless blueprints start becoming available. They are one off toys, and with what we know at present when they are gone, they are gone. I suppose they might be fun flown out of an Eos, with maybe a couple of mediums and a light to back them up, and out of the Rattlesnake where their Omni-damage and application do well with the goofy weak 275% bonus.
It's also enjoying the stats it will have after the other drones get adjusted, so may not look quite as good in comparison when that happens. Geckos will still be impressive, but impressive toys are still just toys.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
217
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Posted - 2014.05.23 05:24:00 -
[4096] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:It's also enjoying the stats it will have after the other drones get adjusted, so may not look quite as good in comparison when that happens. Geckos will still be impressive, but impressive toys are still just toys.
I agree, i hope ccp releases a blueprint or create a way to obtain them more easily because drones die very quickly, especially if you disconnect.
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
653
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 05:29:00 -
[4097] - Quote
Mare Nardieu wrote:RATTLESNAKE
Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)
Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1) Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7 Sensor strength: 30 Signature radius: 450(-10)
Is it just me or does the idea of lowering the Drone Bandwidth form 125 to 50 and giving the Rattlesnake a role bonus of 275% bonus dmg and HP to Heavy and Sentry drones seem like a kick in the pants. Unless I have missed some other post about heavies and sentries getting a Bandwidth reduction that still means that we could only deploy 2 Heavy drones or sentries at one time. The fact that the Rattlesnake is getting one more launcher slot doesn't even seem to make this a fair deal IMO,
As far as damage is concerned, this has zero difference in paper DPS. It does have some other implications that leave it an overall nerf to the drone system. On the lighter hulls this was compensated by a 60% increase in drone DPS, but for some reason on the Rattlesnake they have (unwisely, IMO) chosen to leave the drone system weakened.
With drones condensed from 5 to 2, you have an increased vulnerability to disruption. Where applying ECM to drones is generally a futile gesture, it now removes a healthy chunk of DPS. Heavy and Sentry drones do not have exceptionally low sensor strength, but unlike the sensors on your ship you cannot improve this in any way. Other forms of disruption are equally problematic, for instance simply webbing and kiting the superdrones is much more effective than on standard drone ships.
It's also now more effective to simply shoot and destroy the drones. While they are individually harder to destroy, the bonus they get to HP is no where near enough to discourage someone from taking the extra few shots to kill one. If anything, it's now more efficient to kill them as you don't waste as much damage from overkill. It's a small thing, but on the battleship scale, the superdrone concept just dies by inches.
It also takes a hit in application. Since you no longer get a bonus to smaller drones, the versatility of the system suffers. The ship makes up for this in part by allowing any size launcher to benefit from that bonus, but then you lose out on damage from missiles as well, on a weapon system that cannot change scale on the fly the way drones do.
The idea is fine, and on the lighter hulls shows real promise of being downright awesome. Leaving the role bonus at 275% is just too weak on the battleship level however. Breaking even on performance while imposing the added downsides of condensing from 5 to 2 is an overall nerf.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
217
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Posted - 2014.05.23 05:40:00 -
[4098] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:It's also enjoying the stats it will have after the other drones get adjusted, so may not look quite as good in comparison when that happens. Geckos will still be impressive, but impressive toys are still just toys.
I agree, i hope ccp releases a blueprint or create a way to obtain them more easily because drones die very very quickly, especially if you disconnect. At this rate all geckos will be gone pretty soon. So if people get a blueprints for next "event" instead of drone this will be move viable solution.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: In addition, they recently released a super heavy drone called the Gecko. It uses 50mb of bandwidth, hits as hard as two Ogre IIs, is faster than a Valkyrie, and eats frigates like popcorn.
Yea but two Ogre II's do more of same type damage, so for example 2 ogres do more thermal damage to serpentis NPC's than 1 gecko, because you get split damage on gecko, because of this serpentis npc's will die more quickly to 2 Ogre II's.
Also you have to know that Ogre II's get a bonus from specialization and 2 Ogre II's do more damage than 1 gecko, especially with level 5 specialization. |
Kueyen
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 07:20:00 -
[4099] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We are dumping something like 8 years worth of stock on the market. You were holding on to them, waiting for a rebalance, hoping "finally, this thing will be worth something decent". Then you saw the new Rattlesnake stats. And you concluded: "No, still rubbish. And it's probably going to be years until another balance pass. Sell the lot at the current somewhat elevated market prices, while people are still misguided enough to buy them". Admit it: if you thought they were going to be worth 900M, you wouldn't be selling your stocks at 600M. |
XMaxan
The Legion of X
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 10:48:00 -
[4100] - Quote
I believe that the new RattleSnake needs more drones with a lower buff. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6487
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:32:00 -
[4101] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:baltec1 wrote:We are dumping something like 8 years worth of stock on the market. You were holding on to them, waiting for a rebalance, hoping "finally, this thing will be worth something decent". Then you saw the new Rattlesnake stats. And you concluded: "No, still rubbish. And it's probably going to be years until another balance pass. Sell the lot at the current somewhat elevated market prices, while people are still misguided enough to buy them". Admit it: if you thought they were going to be worth 900M, you wouldn't be selling your stocks at 600M.
That, or since it was worth slightly below 400 mil before this thread started, they thought 200 mil improvement was worth it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11709
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:53:00 -
[4102] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:baltec1 wrote:We are dumping something like 8 years worth of stock on the market. You were holding on to them, waiting for a rebalance, hoping "finally, this thing will be worth something decent". Then you saw the new Rattlesnake stats. And you concluded: "No, still rubbish. And it's probably going to be years until another balance pass. Sell the lot at the current somewhat elevated market prices, while people are still misguided enough to buy them". Admit it: if you thought they were going to be worth 900M, you wouldn't be selling your stocks at 600M.
We crashed the market, expect prices to rise in th furture.
This is now a good ship for both pve and pvp, hence why the price has risen so much in so short a time despite our flooding the market. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kueyen
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 12:18:00 -
[4103] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We crashed the market, expect prices to rise in th furture. I'll have to take your word for that.
baltec1 wrote:This is now a good ship for both pve and pvp, hence why the price has risen so much in so short a time despite our flooding the market. This whole discussion was moot over a hundred pages (and a hundred more if you count the deleted posts) ago anyway, since it's getting increasingly unlikely that the concerns some of us have about the Rattlesnake rebalance, are even going to be acknowledged, let alone addressed.
So, I'm throwing in the towel. All you "everything is fine" folks win. Good fight.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6487
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Posted - 2014.05.23 12:45:00 -
[4104] - Quote
Kueyen wrote: it's getting increasingly unlikely that the concerns some of us have about the Rattlesnake rebalance, are even going to be acknowledged, let alone addressed.
That's pretty much what we were telling you. Most of those are not really valid concerns, and the dev silence seems to reinforce that. And the anklebiting and fit throwing about light drones or "Grr, missiles are viable and I hate them!" has obscured one of the actual issues with the ship. That it needs more CPU.
So thanks for that.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
stoicfaux
4849
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 12:52:00 -
[4105] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And the anklebiting and fit throwing about light drones or "Grr, missiles are viable and I hate them!" has obscured one of the actual issues with the ship. That it needs more CPU.
Yes, and maybe no. On the downside, the tight CPU makes it difficult to max missile and drone DPS. On the plus side, the tight CPU makes it difficult to max missile and drone DPS.
I'm not sure which side of the fence CCP is on in that regard.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6487
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Posted - 2014.05.23 13:34:00 -
[4106] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And the anklebiting and fit throwing about light drones or "Grr, missiles are viable and I hate them!" has obscured one of the actual issues with the ship. That it needs more CPU.
Yes, and maybe no. On the downside, the tight CPU makes it difficult to max missile and drone DPS. On the plus side, the tight CPU makes it difficult to max missile and drone DPS. I'm not sure which side of the fence CCP is on in that regard.
While I realize it's supposed to be a high skill floor ship(and it certainly is), the fitting is still too tight imo. It should be balanced around an assumption of being able to fit 5 Cruise Launchers, and right now the numbers are still balanced around it's previous 4 launchers.
Like you said, this might be on purpose, force people to bling the DDAs or the BCUs. It also might be working under the assumption that it's balanced for 5 Rapid Heavy launchers instead, too. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
45
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 18:46:00 -
[4107] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mare Nardieu wrote:Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot. It's basically getting it's dps doubled. The only "loss" is of light drones, which are rather pointless when you have fully bonused missiles to go with the sentry drones.
Thanks for showing us your lack of understanding.
Nobody can take you seriously. GTFO, kid.
Seems like some people fail to understand the Snake was considered UP and it need not have anything taken away from it. Its common sense, but apparently, some people have a serious lack of it.
These kids who seem to think is fine say it doesn't matter about the light drones and missile velocity bonus but scream "OP!" at the suggestion that they keep any of the things they are losing.
The camp that likes these changes is nothing short of ridiculous. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
654
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 18:51:00 -
[4108] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mare Nardieu wrote:Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot. It's basically getting it's dps doubled. The only "loss" is of light drones, which are rather pointless when you have fully bonused missiles to go with the sentry drones. Thanks for showing us your lack of understanding. Nobody can take you seriously. GTFO, kid. Seems like some people fail to understand the Snake was considered UP and it need not have anything taken away from it. Its common sense, but apparently, some people have a serious lack of i.
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Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
45
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:52:00 -
[4109] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mare Nardieu wrote:Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot. It's basically getting it's dps doubled. The only "loss" is of light drones, which are rather pointless when you have fully bonused missiles to go with the sentry drones. Thanks for showing us your lack of understanding. Nobody can take you seriously. GTFO, kid. Seems like some people fail to understand the Snake was considered UP and it need not have anything taken away from it. Its common sense, but apparently, some people have a serious lack of i.
You see? Its just these no life forum idiots spamming the thread. Their entire existence is nonsensical. Get a life, you patheic losers. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
654
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 18:53:00 -
[4110] - Quote
Fabulous Rod wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Fabulous Rod wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mare Nardieu wrote:Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot. It's basically getting it's dps doubled. The only "loss" is of light drones, which are rather pointless when you have fully bonused missiles to go with the sentry drones. Thanks for showing us your lack of understanding. Nobody can take you seriously. GTFO, kid. Seems like some people fail to understand the Snake was considered UP and it need not have anything taken away from it. Its common sense, but apparently, some people have a serious lack of i. You see? Its just these no life forum idiots spamming the thread. Their entire existence is nonsensical. Get a life, you patheic losers.
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