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Kireitsugu Secheh
Les chips electriques
0
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings. As I understand, the incoming patch will replace waste and extras materials by a build cost.That way CCP can change the composition of material bills more easily. I guess you have to pay this fee in station. But in POS ? Does the fee will be transmitted to the corp ? Or do I have to feed illegal workers in my pos ? Or does the build cost will consume a special kind of pos fuel ? For information, I can give legal slave papers for all my matari young operators . |
Volar Kang
Kang Industrial
152
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
My understanding so far is that having a POS will result in a 5% less material cost for manufacturing. Sadly there is also mention of a new tax rate being applied to using POS slots but nothing final has been stated yet.
My initial opinion is, we will see less alt-corp POSGÇÖs in highsec a few months after these changes since many of us will be able to use stations 8 to 12 jumps from trade hubs and save 100 million isk per month in ice costs. Then factor in the PITA it is to log in everyday and check for wardecs, hauling ice, doing PI to reduce the cost of fuel blocks and now having to leave your BPO in a POS if you are making copies from it. You can also make copies from a station and leave your BPO there but then you are subject to the new slot cost and taxes which was what you wanted to avoid by having a POS. Did I mention you also donGÇÖt have to spend 500 million isk on a POS and modules if you use the new station slots that are coming?
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Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
23
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
The fees are in relation to slots. The more slots in a station are used, the more expensive they become. Extra materials have nothing to do with slots and fees. Instead they are being rolled back into basematerials because of the reprocessing changes will prevent reprocessing from generating free minerals.
There are no scaling fees for running in a POS. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
23
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Also waste is being added into the base materials instead of being extra, ME reduce total minerals down such that "perfect" is the same in the future as it is now. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3535
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP doesn't even know the costs yet.
CCP Greyscale wrote:A couple of things should be noted here. First, these bonuses apply system-wide, including to jobs installed in starbases. Second, keep in mind that this is still a smallish percentage of the total build cost -- it's not a 50% reduction in build cost, it's a 50% reduction in job installation costs which are typically (well) below 10% of build cost.
Some kind of starbase bonus: we're hoping to add a bonus for having multiple starbase structures at the same time, so removing slots doesn't just mean you only ever need one lab on your hisec research tower. We're still determining exactly whether or how we can get this into the initial release without causing performance issues. Wish us luck! |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
595
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Posted - 2014.04.29 18:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes put it this way: Instead of a real economy where producing in volume would reduce your costs, CCP have decided they should increase the more you make. Apparently there's also no reason whatsoever to take into account the cost of fuel blocks used by POSes, which for a large are quite considerable.
That's just my understanding. I could be wrong. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
1085
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Posted - 2014.04.29 22:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kireitsugu Secheh wrote: Or do I have to feed illegal workers in my pos ?
No.
You'll have to feed, or at least pay, the workers in your POS.
But since they've opened for selecting teams it's possible that you'll get to chose between various groups of workers.
Even if I doubt that even CCP will list 'illegal immigrants' as one of the available teams ...
CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
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Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2148
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Posted - 2014.04.30 14:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
set up amarr towers, use Minmatar Slaves. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
148
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:CCP doesn't even know the costs yet. CCP Greyscale wrote:A couple of things should be noted here. First, these bonuses apply system-wide, including to jobs installed in starbases. Second, keep in mind that this is still a smallish percentage of the total build cost -- it's not a 50% reduction in build cost, it's a 50% reduction in job installation costs which are typically (well) below 10% of build cost.
Some kind of starbase bonus: we're hoping to add a bonus for having multiple starbase structures at the same time, so removing slots doesn't just mean you only ever need one lab on your hisec research tower. We're still determining exactly whether or how we can get this into the initial release without causing performance issues. Wish us luck!
That idea to have to place multiple arrays, even though one array will have infinite slots, to get additional bonuses in a POS is really messy to my eye. A real parcel tape & string bodge-job. |
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries Intergalactic Conservation Movement
144
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Posted - 2014.04.30 18:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Basically it comes down to:
Summer expansion is going to change everything we think we know about manufacturing and POS ownership.
We won't know anything with certainty until we see either more devblogs explaining some of the finer points, videos from fanfest doing the same or maybe not even until we actually log in the first time after the patch.
What I would expect though, is that POS ownership is going to have huge benefits, likely close to zero job costs (unless you're paying tax to the owner to help cover fuel costs ect) and I would also suspect your POS slots wouldn't suffer from the same scaling costs. They likely will still have to pay for teams if they want to get the benefits as described in today's devblog.
I think beyond what we can see in the devblogs and the few things they hint at, all is speculation at this point. Juicy, juicy, exciting speculation.
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Karma Anstian
Chimera Research and Development
0
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I snagged a couple of moons several jumps out of jita last month. From what i'm reading, prime real estate like that is going to end up costing me more odds are due to traffic, then just using stations a dozen jumps out?
or am i mistaken? |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1728
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
As I understand it, the more "congested" a system is, the more each individual "slot" will cost.
It's more population driven, roughly (more or less) the way the cost of OFFICES has been for years. The busier the system, the more an office costs since they are rented more often/consistently.
AND STILL no mention of how Standings will affect things. Serious flaw, right there, but I can see how any meaningful percantage bonus based on Standings would play Hell with CCP's math to make Null the most attractive.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Grigori Annunaki
39
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Posted - 2014.05.01 00:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:As I understand it, the more "congested" a system is, the more each individual "slot" will cost.
It's more population driven, roughly (more or less) the way the cost of OFFICES has been for years. The busier the system, the more an office costs since they are rented more often/consistently. It's less to do with congestion and more with activity. The percentage of global activity in a system will set the price of services in that system. So, if your system sees 3% of the total manufacturing hours in the entire universe, you'll pay more than a system that only sees 0.5%. It's also calculated by service, so a system with high manufacturing use but low copying use will have corresponding job installation costs.
Actual traffic through a system or average population don't matter. |
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
128
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Posted - 2014.05.01 03:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Whatever the case may be you might want to get your hands on a few of those beastly BPC's. After the expansion the computation gets a little murky when figuring out the new manufacturing cost and time....
sarcasm on J(x) = Li(x) + \sum_{\rho} Li(x^\rho) - \log 2 + \int_{x}^\infty \frac{dt}{t(t^2 - 1)\log t} or pi(x) = \sum_{n = 1}^\infty \frac{\mu(n)}{n} J(\sqrt[n]{x})
Wow, dabbling in the science and industry side of this game should help me with my thesis on the patterns in prime numbers. |
Arronicus
Ravens' Nest Outlaw Horizon.
929
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Posted - 2014.05.02 23:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kireitsugu Secheh wrote: As I understand, the incoming patch will replace waste and extras materials by a build cost.That way CCP can change the composition of material bills more easily. .
No, the extra materials are not being replaced by a buildcost. The extra materials were put there, separately, to stop tiericide ships from being produced en-masse before the patches, then reprocessed after the patches, to get all the extra materials for free.
However, since reprocessing ships and modules will now only return I believe up to 60% of the amount, the extra materials can be merged into the main materials. They don't need to be replaced. The build cost was always there, it's just changing, and likely going up in many highsec instances.
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