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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7227
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is very interesting stuff coming in the near future. It will nice to see some certainty brought to the T2 BPO problem. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5221
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP
You know who else had an ultimate solution?
I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear. I have yet to hear any valid reason these are a problem (except for jealousy) since invention was introduced. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think that they shouldn't just disappear some of the most valuable items in the game without compensation. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-įPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3167
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Invest in buckets, ctrl-A, shift-del, collect tears. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3883
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Until its in the patch notes of a patch or expansion it's not real. "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -į-į ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP You know who else had an ultimate solution? I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear.
We debated calling it Final Solution. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
969
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Weaselior wrote:The Ultimate Solution to the T2 BPO Problem Announced by CCP You know who else had an ultimate solution? I'll be surprised if this happens any time soon. They'll get nerfed before they disappear. Top lel I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
697
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I think that they shouldn't just disappear some of the most valuable items in the game without compensation.
Yeah its not really a sandbox with CCP radically changing the baseline everytime a new player sneezes :D
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Marsha Mallow
427
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I sold mine, so don't care :P
I don't have a problem with them being compensated, but the owners can demand it themselves. Anyone in that market should have taken possible removal into account as a potential risk. Those who have had them since the lottery have had the benefit, its really only the later players who invested in them who will potentially lose ISK.
The danger in compensatons is that we might see a mass of inflated sales to try push up ISK reimbursed, so if they are going to do it CCP need to set a cutoff date for trade values sharpish.
TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I think that they shouldn't just disappear some of the most valuable items in the game without compensation.
Oh, and because I can see the attempted counter coming:
When someone says "Their compensation is making money off of it for so long", no, it's not. That's on CCP for not dealing with it sooner.
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-įPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
517
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP absolutely should not be compensating for people's terrible financial decisions. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
Thead Enco
47th Ronin
166
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
T2 BPO's should of been removed after "T20"
-į"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-įTyrion Lannister |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
The greatest irony of that panel was the guy standing up to seek compensation for 20%. While the Greyscale response was to reply he was going to lose 100%.
Best troll ever. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
697
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game.
Happened before.
Collectible stuff has just been recycled.
|
TedStriker
The Scope Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
It never was just CCP. I myself sold my T2 BPO i won in the lottery (ah..the days) because it was ALWAYS clear that T2 BPOs no longer had a place in EvE the moment they announced no new T2 BPOs would EVER enter EvE again.
What you guys did was pure SPECULATION. Someone will be the last one not to profit from it....deal with it. Yes, you should have known. If at all you have been lucky enough that CCP didn't care enough the last years to do anything serious regarding industry.
Really....just say it out lout for a moment: "5-10 years turnover".....yea, good luck with that mate ;) |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5226
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Weaselior wrote:As anyone who was watching the fanfest stream knows, CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future: that they've caused problems for the game for years and everyone has felt they'd be going away at some point. That point is apparently coming soon. The discussion indicated that they would not simply be deleted but that there would be a phasing out plan (presumably, the often-considered replacement with BPCs with a large number of copies).
Interestingly, CCP thought that people buying and selling T2 BPOs should have been taking this risk into account. As every bpo sells for something like 7-10 years profit at this point, players clearly did not have that sort of foresight or common sense, so we can expect the price to plummet dramatically.
What are people's thoughts on finally eradicating T2 BPOs to secure a future for invention as the only means of producing T2 bpos, and what do people think will happen in the interim between now and their eventual demise? What sorts of outrage do we expect from current T2 BPO holders who see large parts of their investment wiped out? Should they be compensated, or should we realize that buying a product that clearly was bad for the game and paying a decade's worth of profit was the sort of "sure, let me lend a million dollars to this strawberry picker for a mortgage on a mansion worth more than he'll make in his lifetime" financial decision that deserves the loss that everyone but they saw coming? When it comes to the plan to bail out T2 bpo holders with BPCs, how much is enough/too much? What sort of prices do we think we'll see people bailing out of their T2 BPO investments at, or do you think they'll hang onto them hoping that if they post loudly enough, they'll change CCP's mind?
T2 BPO's should of been removed after "T20"
There was no invention then, thanks for removing all Tech 2 from the game.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game.
Happened before. Collectible stuff has just been recycled.
Collectible stuff. Not an actual asset.
Can they decide this about ships, for example? Suppose Jump Freighters get disappeared next week. Compensation? Skillpoints, isk, both, or nothing? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-įPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
697
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Can they decide this about ships, for example? Suppose Jump Freighters get disappeared next week. Compensation? Skillpoints, isk, both, or nothing?
Now that would make losec way more interesting. |
per
Terpene Conglomerate
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
"CCP Greyscale today announced that T2 BPOs will be going away in the future"
where did i see this already, lol
T2 BPO's are really a problem with no easy solution, i don't have any myself and i don't like them but i can imagine that having some i would be pretty pissed if they were be removed ... i'd increase their copying times hard or turr them into bpc's with some silly amount of runs but there's already quazilion of discussions about this..... |
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Sturmwolke
562
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Get Greyscale to put it in writing, then I'll believe it :D (yeah I thought I was hearing things during the industry panel) Some Fanfest stuffs are just lip service.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5700
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Can they decide this about ships, for example? Suppose Jump Freighters get disappeared next week. Compensation? Skillpoints, isk, both, or nothing?
Now that would make losec way more interesting.
Sure would. Trade routes would become a thing in places besides highsec again.
There's as much of an argument to be made that Jump Freighters are bad for the game, as there is for T2 BPOs. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-įPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
370
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
I guess its time for all BPO T2 owners to start copying like there is no tomorrow :P copier machine is this way >>>> GOGOGO! "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --įAaron Birch |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2895
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1509
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created.
When you can figure that out you are no longer shameful. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1151
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created. generating a discussion on an interesting subject not reason enough for you? it is for me. Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼ -į-į-į-į-į-į-į sig by Doc Fury -¬ 2014 Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼Gū¼
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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1842
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:What I want to know is why a member of the goon economic warfare team is creating this thread at all.
What does he have to gain by it? Trolling for tears? Actually curious about the opinions of others after years of gloatingly stating "your opinion means nothing".
This entire post is completely out of character, and I am curious why it was created.
Not all Goons are created equal.
CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-į/ Dynamic New Eden |
Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
132
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Solutions are good. Ultimate Solutions sind besser. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
425
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[edit: Also. "Item being deleted by the devs" is not a risk to be taken into account when playing this game. Being nerfed, yes. Being blow up or stolen? Hells yes. But not straight up deletion from the game.
Happened before. Collectible stuff has just been recycled.
This. You have to assume that not only your fellow players will blow you up, but that CCP will simply delete everything you own without compensation at any time. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
460
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 16:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
There is no T2 BPO problem. No, I don't have one.
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