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Ilovetomine
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the title suggests, I really have noticed something that I think is a problem. There are no hulks in any of the belts. They are all macks. And I of course love that they are mining, but the problem is, it's the only thing people fly.
And yes, I do love mining, but I have had my fair share of pvp as well, so I can't exactly be dubbed a carebear. So having settled that....
I remember when there would be hulks, macks, skiffs, retrievers, you name it. But not more. Only hulks.
I remember CCP changing the hulls around, and eventually people stopped flying hulks. Why? Because of their paper thin tank and easy kill for gankers. A single catalyst can rip one to shreds before concord can ever arrive.
Now don't get me wrong. Ganking miners has always been around, but I am simply saying, its sad to see that the "rebalancing" of exhumers has actually forced everyone into just a single ship.
Do you think this will ever be changed? will the hulk ever grace the belts, ever again? It's a sad thing only seeing a single minign ship, when the hulk was such a badass.
On a side note... get rid of those wimpy old strip miner animations, and bring back the old one.
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
115
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you read the summer changes to mining vessels you will see some changes to the Hulk. These changes will encourage more miners to purchase and use Hulks.
Sadly there are changes to other mining vessels which will make belt control potentially much harder to accomplish. But we shall continue to do our contractors bidding. |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1758
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Plenty of Hulks out there every day... just not likely to see them without an Orca, and a freighter, in most cases (fleets).
"HTFU ! " -á--- -áKatee Sackhoff, aka "The F-Bomb Queen of EVE" ! !-á
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Ilovetomine
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2014.05.04 14:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Even so... I feel as though all of the other ships are still more enticing to fly than a hulk. Yield loss for 4-5x the tank seems worth it... But.. Even having changes, do you think hulks will ever be as abundant as they were? |
Ilovetomine
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2014.05.04 15:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:If you read the summer changes to mining vessels you will see some changes to the Hulk. These changes will encourage more miners to purchase and use Hulks.
Sadly there are changes to other mining vessels which will make belt control potentially much harder to accomplish. But we shall continue to do our contractors bidding.
Also I have been looking for these notes. Could you post them for me??
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Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1758
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Posted - 2014.05.04 15:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote:Even so... I feel as though all of the other ships are still more enticing to fly than a hulk. Yield loss for 4-5x the tank seems worth it... But.. Even having changes, do you think hulks will ever be as abundant as they were?
Depends on how the Hulk will compare with any future changes and whether (or not) such changes benefit fleet mining.
"HTFU ! " -á--- -áKatee Sackhoff, aka "The F-Bomb Queen of EVE" ! !-á
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Jur Tissant
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.05.04 15:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
The cost-to-yield ratio is already high, top that with the small ore bay and there's no real use for a Hulk unless you have a hauler or fleet with you. |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
158
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote: Also I have been looking for these notes. Could you post them for me??
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4423358#post4423358
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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
985
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Unusual topic.
Good read.
+1
*sips blood-orange tea* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears! And how do I put text as links into signatures?? |
WASPY69
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
252
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe it's due to the fact that whenever a Hulk is spotted it's basically like holding a treat in front of a dog. It's very, very hard to resist blowing it up. Since not only is it an easy 200mil kill with the potential of 25+ mil in T2 salvage and loot replacing your 10 mil ganking Catalyst twice (got 44mil once, happy times), but also it usually creates so much anger which is funny.
But like someone mentioned above me, it's become more of a fleet mining ship so it's become more rare. But bots people still solo mine in them and tbh it's not hard to track one down. Just head to your nearest cluster of "quiet" .5 and .6 systems. |
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Dave Stark
5246
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Posted - 2014.05.04 17:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
if you're in a system where people are sight seeing near you, you wouldn't use a hulk.
that's why you're not seeing them. |
Arronicus
Ravens' Nest Outlaw Horizon.
937
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote:Even so... I feel as though all of the other ships are still more enticing to fly than a hulk. Yield loss for 4-5x the tank seems worth it... But.. Even having changes, do you think hulks will ever be as abundant as they were?
Hulks are a nullsec miner, or very remote parts of highsec. I have 10 exhumer 5 characters (6 of the accounts are currently inactive, while I wait for the summer patch **** to settle, and see what I want to do), and the margins on the yield difference on hulks really adds up, not to mention buffer tank means nothing in 0.0. All my hulks run active tanks, and due to fitting inconsistencies between the exhumers, hulks had the strongest active tanks, due to a combination of what you could fit, and sig radius. CCP seems to be doing away with that though, the +50m sig radius increase they got really hurts.
Still, like was said before, if you are in a flying around and seeing mining barges area, you won't see hulks. There are a LOT of hulks out there, but the ones that mine highsec in busy areas die very fast. |
Dominus Tempus
Forced Euthanasia
10
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
The reason why you don't openly see Hulks anymore:
Players view Security Status as another form of earned currency, that they spend on illegal activities such as ganking Exhumers. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3555
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:If you read the summer changes to mining vessels you will see some changes to the Hulk. These changes will encourage more miners to purchase and use Hulks.
Sadly there are changes to other mining vessels which will make belt control potentially much harder to accomplish. But we shall continue to do our contractors bidding. The proposed Hulk changes will not have the desired effect.
Miners are however more likely to replace their Retrievers / Mackinaws with Procurers / Battle-Skiffs after being ganked.
Miners generally have no reason to change hulls otherwise. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3904
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Posted - 2014.05.04 19:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Miners are however more likely to replace their Retrievers / Mackinaws with Procurers / Battle-Skiffs after being ganked.
Been this way for at least 6 months "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Chester Huggins
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.05.04 20:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Out of curiosity, how useful do you think a shield transfer role would be for Hulks?
Like, give them a utility high, have barge and exhumer skills maybe affect shield transfer cycle time, and a role bonus to reduce fitting.
I'm wondering if this would help with the Hulk's fleet role, letting Hulk swarms help tank each other. Would this make Hulks overpowered, or not make much difference? |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
282
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Posted - 2014.05.04 20:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Chester Huggins wrote:Out of curiosity, how useful do you think a shield transfer role would be for Hulks?
Like, give them a utility high, have barge and exhumer skills maybe affect shield transfer cycle time, and a role bonus to reduce fitting.
I'm wondering if this would help with the Hulk's fleet role, letting Hulk swarms help tank each other. Would this make Hulks overpowered, or not make much difference?
[Edit] Same for Covetors of course, although they wouldn't benefit from the Exhumer skill.
WTB Battlehulk fleet.
Can they actually fit weapons though? Or would they be using just their drones? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
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Chester Huggins
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.05.04 20:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:WTB Battlehulk fleet.
Can they actually fit weapons though? Or would they be using just their drones? Have some Skiffs in the fleet acting as drone bunnies. |
Doreen Kaundur
0
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Posted - 2014.05.04 22:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's hard to want to invest in Hulks when events like Hulkageddon take place.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3165
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Posted - 2014.05.04 22:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ilovetomine wrote:I remember CCP changing the hulls around, and eventually people stopped flying hulks. Why? Because of their paper thin tank and easy kill for gankers. A single catalyst can rip one to shreds before concord can ever arrive. i'd bet the main reason people choose macks is the cargo and afkability. but the higher tank (~8-10k) on the mack certainly doesn't help
the solution to this and other problems is to make mining less of a snorefest |
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Cato XIII
The Carnifex Corp
14
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
I like Hulks because the pilots are usually discriminating folk with good taste who don't settle for other low-class forms of mining. Plus they usually have really expensive pods.
The Hulks are still out there... waiting for you. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2802
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
I still see a moderate number of Hulks - as killmails in the minerbumping channel.
I don't see many of them mining, however. Their life expectancy is just not very long these days.
Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
2279
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
The best thing about Hulks is they drop armor plates like Mackinaws, but are far far easier to kill. Yes please miners of New Eden, rediscover the joy's of Hulk mining! "Its the pod I'm after. The ship is just a pod condom." -- Turgesson "You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3166
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:The best thing about Hulks is they drop armor plates like Mackinaws, but are far far easier to kill. Yes please miners of New Eden, rediscover the joy's of Hulk mining! well. a properly-fitted hulk has twice as much tank as the standard-fit mackinaw |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
181
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Does the Hulk not have a Role Bonus?
*copied*
ULK
Mining Barge Bonus per level: +5% Strip Miner and Ice Harvester optimal range -4% Strip Miner and Ice Harvester duration
Exhumer Bonus per level: +4% Shield resistances -3% Strip Miner and Ice Harvester duration
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 2L; Fittings: 40(+5) PWG, 310(+10) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2200 / 1800 / 2000 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 625 / 187.5s / 3.33 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140(+70) / 0.46(+0.234) / 30,000,000(-10,000,000) / 19.13s(-5.58s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km(+12.5km) / 660 / 7 Sensor strength: 12(+4) Signature radius: 200(+50) Ore Bay: 8500m3
~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5746
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Posted - 2014.05.04 23:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
You know what they say.
Absence makes the price get smaller. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Ilovetomine
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2014.05.05 02:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Okay I am back after a long day at work, and I am pleased to see all the constructive chit chat.. And good points.
The first thing that comes to my attention is that it is being said that a hulk is in fact a null-sec mining boat. Which I agree. Someone above also stated that they are best run as active tanks, which I also agree with, and actually run...
However... Having noted now that hulks are in fact a null sec mining boat, where is the justification in the risk of null-sec mining, vs the profitability? By that I mean a few things... First let me just take a look at ore prices via a website I love.
http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html
5,433,194 isk per barrel of SCORDITE
5,974,950 isk per barrel of ARKONOR ( 3-ish years ago, 1 can of ark was roughly 12-15m)
6,962,997 isk per barrel of HEDBERGITE
Now I don't mean this as a rant, at all, but as a pointer. Scordite is worth nearly as much as the most valuable ore, and formerly most valuable ore (not including mercoxit because because)
Any boat can mine scordite, etc. There should be a higher reward for the risk of said "null sec" boat, etc, if you catch my meaning. I have also read that CCP plans to increase the value of ABC, + Hed + Hem. But I still don't really think that will put the hulk in a niche that it belongs, as a null-sec mining boat.
So to me, I think that the hulk has become an almost worthless ship, unless it is baby sat. And even then, its still risky and flimsy.
Back when I started in 08-09, the hulk was what you aimed for. The King of Exhumers, that boss man. But I feel as though even with said summer changes, the fact that it will get more yield, and no more tank, (in fact less if I read someones post about sig radius increase), really just defeats the purpose of a hulk.
So... If it doesn't belong in high-sec, and it really isnt worth the risk vs profitavility margin in null... where.. does it fit? How does it work, logically?
Tbh, I don't even undock mine, and won't until my orca has T2 remote shield reps and t2 shield drones. Even with active tank.
Thoughts? I hope that isn't confusing.. just a wacky scenario in my own crazy world. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2810
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Posted - 2014.05.05 05:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
It is the best ship for mining if you are in a fleet, do not need to haul and have taken precautions to avoid ganking. This has not changed.
Really if you are not AFK, are not required to haul and are dilligent (i.e. an eye on D-scan, in a belt with no other belts on 2 AU D-scan, alternating your alignment between an above-belt safe and a below-belt safe, and insta-warping out as soon as any combination of gank ships that can take you out appear on 2 AU D-scan), the Hulk is the ship for you.
The Skiff is for people who are lazy and want to replace the dilligence with tanking modules, and the Mackinaw is for people who have to haul.
Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
706
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Posted - 2014.05.05 06:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: i'd bet the main reason people choose macks is the cargo and afkability.
This, if you could somehow dump straight to a can that your orca guy regularly scooped up the hulk would see a lot more use. |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
56
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Posted - 2014.05.05 07:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Also agree on the strip miners effects (sound effects mainly). The first ones were much more moody, they've definitely created the right harsh industrial atmosphere to the mining, the sound when returned to mining was always so refreshing. To me the newer just doesn't pull that off at all. It is nice and all but older one was better in every way, not to mention badass. |
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