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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
O'nira
United System's Commonwealth
8
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Posted - 2014.06.03 19:22:00 -
[481] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability.
but it cant even hit carriers according to this thread, how is it hitting a loki :O ! |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
217
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Posted - 2014.06.03 20:17:00 -
[482] - Quote
O'nira wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote:hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability. but it cant even hit carriers according to this thread, how is it hitting a loki :O !
the damage to a loki would be based on how fast it's moving and if its painted and running an MWD. The phoenix's rigs would also be a huge impact on the damage. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark
227
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Posted - 2014.06.03 20:38:00 -
[483] - Quote
O'nira wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote:hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability. but it cant even hit carriers according to this thread, how is it hitting a loki :O ! Carriers can be immune to painters. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
5
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Posted - 2014.06.03 21:13:00 -
[484] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:O'nira wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote:hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability. but it cant even hit carriers according to this thread, how is it hitting a loki :O ! Carriers can be immune to painters.
archon with max links and strong x-instinct booster and full halo set is 1289 sig
loki under max links MWD running 5 linked domination TP's and 5 60% webs has a sig of 1366 (860 if using non faction tp's and 711 if the tp's aren't boosted by links) and a speed of 180m/s) using an ab its 348 sig and 62 m/s
if we give the loki pilot halos and booster ab is 235 sig MWD is 921
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Freddie Merrcury
Daktaklakpak.
107
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Posted - 2014.06.03 21:27:00 -
[485] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:O'nira wrote:Alexander McKeon wrote:hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability. but it cant even hit carriers according to this thread, how is it hitting a loki :O ! Carriers can be immune to painters. archon with max links and strong x-instinct booster and full halo set is 1289 sig loki under max links MWD running 5 linked domination TP's and 5 60% webs has a sig of 1366 (860 if using non faction tp's and 711 if the tp's aren't boosted by links) and a speed of 180m/s) using an ab its 348 sig and 62 m/s if we give the loki pilot halos and booster ab is 235 sig MWD is 921
You seem to be disregarding that a carrier has by a large magnitude a larger EHP pool and capacity for active tank.
A Phoenix with its 120k alpha (Pre patch, might be lower now) doing even a comparatively low % of applied damage would still appear to do more damage to a loki. It doesn't change the fact that the reduction in damage from the subpar application allows a loki to survive a volley and a triage carrier to tank it without strain.
Either way I already offloaded the damn thing. I'm just amused watching the arguments from the Fozzie shills about why this wasn't a colossal waste of time I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1234
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Posted - 2014.06.03 22:02:00 -
[486] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability.
So that's a linked, stationary 85 m sig Loki, quad-painted (overloaded, linked, bonused Domination painters) up to 640 m sig, being shot by a triple-rigour Strong Crash Phoenix with explosion radius 857 m, dealing 74.7% damage, or 85,120 volley. Ignoring shield and assuming a dual plated Loki with 80.3% lowest resist and 180,226 armour EHP on explosive means it drops to 53% armour.
That's a long way from 20%. |
Alexander McKeon
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
65
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Posted - 2014.06.04 01:26:00 -
[487] - Quote
Uh, I have a loki with no prop mod at 163m signature with mind-linked boosts. Assuming Halo + X-Instinct is a bit unreasonable. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
217
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Posted - 2014.06.04 03:10:00 -
[488] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:Uh, I have a loki with no prop mod at 163m signature with mind-linked boosts. Assuming Halo + X-Instinct is a bit unreasonable. Most T3 pilots I know don't routinely fly around with a full set of Halo implants.
most dreads dont fly around with 4 painters, nor does a t3 sit still.
people always say:
Quote: 4 webs 4 painters (usually a 7.5% effectiveness per level) 3 rigors
anything hit with that is dead. end of story the phoenix is not special in this case
if it was 1 painter, maybe a web, and 3 rigors with a moving target i would feel it would be more reasonable. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark
227
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Posted - 2014.06.04 04:09:00 -
[489] - Quote
With that 4-4-3 thing going the old phoenix could make basically anything dead. You'll notice that the phoenix wasn't killing everything while that was around.
140k alphas hurt even if they see it coming. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
157
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Posted - 2014.06.04 17:33:00 -
[490] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:... I'm just amused watching the arguments from the Fozzie shills about why this wasn't a colossal waste of time
Fozzie shills - Brilliant!! |
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Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1235
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Posted - 2014.06.05 10:41:00 -
[491] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:Uh, I have a loki with no prop mod at 163m signature with mind-linked boosts.
Not for an armour Loki, you don't. Even without links you don't. Sorry.
Armour resist-bonused Loki has base sig of 130 m. T3 links takes that to 87.1 m, CS links to 85.1 m. |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
158
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Posted - 2014.06.09 02:21:00 -
[492] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:I don't understand why only dreadnoughts received a signature radius increase. I thought dreadnoughts were anti-capital, not just anti-dreadnought. I like how carriers were suspiciously absent from this increase, do you think this change would have been too threatening to slowcats otherwise?
So triage carriers are harder to hit with the new phoenix WTH!!!
I'm sick of getting grief for dropping my phoenix and getting crap for it. Give me some help CCP.
The tank is utterly worthless. Any dread that gets caught is going to die no matter how much tank its got. A few good neuts on you and there goes that tank....or a bubble and your dead since you can't hit anything smaller than a large moon so the heavy dictors that have to run in fear a Moros blapping them just lazily drift up to your phoenix without having to bother to orbit you even, heck they could just set a range and infipoint you and you couldn't kill them EVER. The worry of making it a sub cap blapping monster is silly. We already have them so making another one wouldn't be much of a difference.
Who dreamed up the ridiculous idea of editing like 12 different things instead of just making citadel missiles better. If you over buffed them to be too boss you can just tweak the dos down a bit with a quick simple patch of one thing. Now we got like 19 things all jacked up.
Ok I am not totally hating on everything about it, however, the flight speed of missiles getting increased is a great idea. Makes fire walling harder and makes your dos actually get to the target in time to count more often. Check my killboard for a few amusing 0 damage 'kills' with a phoenix. I fired but the moros and Revs second shots killed the target before my first volley got there...that was pretty lame. |
Freddie Merrcury
Daktaklakpak.
107
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Posted - 2014.06.09 02:44:00 -
[493] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:... I'm just amused watching the arguments from the Fozzie shills about why this wasn't a colossal waste of time Fozzie shills - Brilliant!! I wonder who else would've endorsed this waste of time.
I wonder what kind of person would ignore the overwhelming majority of experienced Phoenix pilots saying these changes weren't going to be even an upgrade, let alone satisfactory for overall dread balance. Shifting the garbage pile around and putting a pretty new banana peel on top doesn't make it any less trash.
I'm just sorry for the people that waste time on the skill training. I know I am. I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
161
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Posted - 2014.06.09 17:50:00 -
[494] - Quote
See Carlo M. Cipolla as the appropriate reference for this imaginative 12 steps to making the Phoenix 'terribetter'
*(Def: Terribetter: The act of making something better, and terrible at the same time) |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
515
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Posted - 2014.06.10 19:37:00 -
[495] - Quote
oh yes the new phoenix is still not supported by my alliance ,the other 3 are gj ccp Fozzie ,your haterd toward caldari still as enjoyable as ever , hope you continue this awesome job elsewhere |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
515
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Posted - 2014.06.11 09:37:00 -
[496] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:With that 4-4-3 thing going the old phoenix could make basically anything dead. You'll notice that the phoenix wasn't killing everything while that was around.
140k alphas hurt even if they see it coming. what 140k alpha ? where is that from? |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3704
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Posted - 2014.06.11 10:05:00 -
[497] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Cruises by 38%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 14%. We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Torps by 75%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 50%. Retain the explosion velocity increases; revert the explosion radius back to the original values. The Phoenix won't be "OP", but at least it'll be somewhat improved. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
293
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:50:00 -
[498] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:... I'm just amused watching the arguments from the Fozzie shills about why this wasn't a colossal waste of time Fozzie shills - Brilliant!! I wonder who else would've endorsed this waste of time. I wonder what kind of person would ignore the overwhelming majority of experienced Phoenix pilots saying these changes weren't going to be even an upgrade, let alone satisfactory for overall dread balance. Shifting the garbage pile around and putting a pretty new banana peel on top doesn't make it any less trash. I'm just sorry for the people that waste time on the skill training. I know I am.
From comments like this I sort of feel that maybe CCP just made a change to see how it would play out and that in spite of the people saying this or that any increase in usage (and any associated victories) could be considered an *effective* change even if it's not immediately popular or makes sense.
Compare with some of the other changes they've made throughout the rebalance, I'd say that they sit on 8/10 for performance generally with a couple of things here or there that are just no good and maybe only because there's not really any place for them anymore (like mine layers or such). https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
515
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:34:00 -
[499] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:... I'm just amused watching the arguments from the Fozzie shills about why this wasn't a colossal waste of time Fozzie shills - Brilliant!! I wonder who else would've endorsed this waste of time. I wonder what kind of person would ignore the overwhelming majority of experienced Phoenix pilots saying these changes weren't going to be even an upgrade, let alone satisfactory for overall dread balance. Shifting the garbage pile around and putting a pretty new banana peel on top doesn't make it any less trash. I'm just sorry for the people that waste time on the skill training. I know I am. From comments like this I sort of feel that maybe CCP just made a change to see how it would play out and that in spite of the people saying this or that any increase in usage (and any associated victories) could be considered an *effective* change even if it's not immediately popular or makes sense. Compare with some of the other changes they've made throughout the rebalance, I'd say that they sit on 8/10 for performance generally with a couple of things here or there that are just no good and maybe only because there's not really any place for them anymore (like mine layers or such). heh? the only changes made after "see how it would play out" i can remember is the domi nerf ,and probably thats only cause it was total op |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
293
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Posted - 2014.06.11 16:06:00 -
[500] - Quote
Provide some ideas if you have them instead of just complaining. See the RLML thread, i offer some ideas for ccp to work with. What can be done with phoenix'? I don't fly them literally so i cannot offer advice beyond mathematics. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
515
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Posted - 2014.06.11 17:24:00 -
[501] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Provide some ideas if you have them instead of just complaining. See the RLML thread, i offer some ideas for ccp to work with. What can be done with phoenix'? I don't fly them literally so i cannot offer advice beyond mathematics. there are plenty of ideas presented already and it seems all got ignored |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
163
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Posted - 2014.06.12 00:26:00 -
[502] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Provide some ideas if you have them instead of just complaining. See the RLML thread, i offer some ideas for ccp to work with. What can be done with phoenix'? I don't fly them literally so i cannot offer advice beyond mathematics. there are plenty of ideas presented already and it seems all got ignored
No no .... I have it on good authority that every pragmatic and realistic idea that was not 'terribetter' was properly entered into the round file at CCP HQ!
So Chin up!! |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
228
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Posted - 2014.06.15 05:26:00 -
[503] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:With that 4-4-3 thing going the old phoenix could make basically anything dead. You'll notice that the phoenix wasn't killing everything while that was around.
140k alphas hurt even if they see it coming. what 140k alpha ? where is that from? Old phoenix fired 125-140k alphas, it was one of the reasons they ever saw use. Now it's 90-110k and there is far less damage done in each clip and the clip empties faster. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
515
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 16:35:00 -
[504] - Quote
anyway the new phoenix isnt good at all :I when you realize that station services can sigtank the dmg you will start to cry := fire ccp fozzie |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
163
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Posted - 2014.06.17 12:20:00 -
[505] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:anyway the new phoenix isnt good at all :I when you realize that station services can sigtank the dmg you will start to cry := fire ccp fozzie
Wait... I thought the 'Devs were already in Fire'?
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
66
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Posted - 2014.06.20 15:27:00 -
[506] - Quote
Guys, guys. I hate to necropost, but I think i figured out why Fozzie thinks the Phoenix is OP.
Remember the last time CCP went on a lowsec roam? They all had their Aurora implants that gave MASSIVE boosts to everything, including EXPLOSION VELOCITY and EXPLOSION RADIUS. So, when Fozzie decided that he needed to change the Phoenix, he tested it in his Aurora clone with all the bonuses that came with it! |
Rin Valador
Sovereign Colonies Armed Forces
112
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Posted - 2014.06.20 15:34:00 -
[507] - Quote
**** Citadel torps and missiles. Give the phoenix some guns already and leave this missile nonsense behind. "There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10 |
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