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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
768
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Posted - 2014.05.12 20:25:00 -
[271] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Open Graves wrote:Are those missile bonus including rapid launchers? Do they include rockets and HAMs as well? This. It would appear that the missile bonuses apply to all missile types regardless?
Wow. Well losec ratting will get VERY popular! Need to digest figures, and this seems a great Pirate ship in the way the rattlesnake Isn't. CCP. Nice Job! glad you were able to spend the time needed on this one. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
234
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:26:00 -
[272] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs). So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight. This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it-¦s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants). Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap.
This was my honest first opinion too. But if you take a closer look at the stats, specifically the capacitor and the lock range stats. I actually think that these ships are balanced, or maybe even vulnerable. All of these ships have the worst capacitor regen per second in the game compared to their counterparts.
The NOOBSHIPS have almost the same cap regen per second as the Mordus battleship does. (Again, these may be an error made by CCP Rise, but it's looking more like it's an intentional part of the balancing). |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
175
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:31:00 -
[273] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, . Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps
Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2482
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:33:00 -
[274] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, . Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it.
http://i.imgur.com/nGNLCqr.png
I was over on the DPS by a bit, its pretty low, the cruiser should be around the other cruisers in the 7-800 range, lower than some t1 vanilla cruisers but nearly the same as some of the other pirate factions, below a few hacs, above a few others. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Sascha Naskingar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:44:00 -
[275] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Shilalasar wrote:So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs). So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight. This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it-¦s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants). Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap. This was my honest first opinion too. But if you take a closer look at the stats, specifically the capacitor and the lock range stats. I actually think that these ships are balanced, or maybe even vulnerable. All of these ships have the worst capacitor regen per second in the game compared to their counterparts. The NOOBSHIPS have almost the same cap regen per second as the Mordus battleship does. (Again, these may be an error made by CCP Rise, but it's looking more like it's an intentional part of the balancing).
I'm sorry, but i'm pretty sure your maths is out on this, from what i can work out the Garmur actually has the same base capacitor and more regen than a Fed Navy Comet, likewise the BS has better cap regen than a domi navy, so it really isnt as bad as you think it is. |
Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
235
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:49:00 -
[276] - Quote
Sascha Naskingar wrote:Suitonia wrote:Shilalasar wrote:So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs). So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight. This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it-¦s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants). Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap. This was my honest first opinion too. But if you take a closer look at the stats, specifically the capacitor and the lock range stats. I actually think that these ships are balanced, or maybe even vulnerable. All of these ships have the worst capacitor regen per second in the game compared to their counterparts. The NOOBSHIPS have almost the same cap regen per second as the Mordus battleship does. (Again, these may be an error made by CCP Rise, but it's looking more like it's an intentional part of the balancing). I'm sorry, but i'm pretty sure your maths is out on this, from what i can work out the Garmur actually has the same base capacitor and more regen than a Fed Navy Comet, likewise the BS has better cap regen than a domi navy, so it really isnt as bad as you think it is.
I was basing it on the cap per second figures that CCP rise put in the thread. Although, it could be that I was looking at the figures wrong, I was comparing it to the peak recharge with no skills in Eve Fitting Tool, but it seems like the one listed by rise might just be the Average regen rather than the peak (unfortunately he did not include the recharge time in the original figures). so I could well be wrong. |
Catherine Laartii
State Protectorate Caldari State
175
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:50:00 -
[277] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, . Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it. http://i.imgur.com/nGNLCqr.pngI was over on the DPS by a bit, its pretty low, the cruiser should be around the other cruisers in the 7-800 range, lower than some t1 vanilla cruisers but nearly the same as some of the other pirate factions, below a few hacs, above a few others. Not using t2 ammo on t2 rockets? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
13452
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:51:00 -
[278] - Quote
Sploosh.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
235
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:53:00 -
[279] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, . Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it. http://i.imgur.com/nGNLCqr.pngI was over on the DPS by a bit, its pretty low, the cruiser should be around the other cruisers in the 7-800 range, lower than some t1 vanilla cruisers but nearly the same as some of the other pirate factions, below a few hacs, above a few others. Not using t2 ammo on t2 rockets?
T2 rockets don't apply that well to most Frigates (Particularly AB ones), even when you have a web. |
Sascha Naskingar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:54:00 -
[280] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Sascha Naskingar wrote:Suitonia wrote:Shilalasar wrote:So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs). So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight. This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it-¦s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants). Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap. This was my honest first opinion too. But if you take a closer look at the stats, specifically the capacitor and the lock range stats. I actually think that these ships are balanced, or maybe even vulnerable. All of these ships have the worst capacitor regen per second in the game compared to their counterparts. The NOOBSHIPS have almost the same cap regen per second as the Mordus battleship does. (Again, these may be an error made by CCP Rise, but it's looking more like it's an intentional part of the balancing). I'm sorry, but i'm pretty sure your maths is out on this, from what i can work out the Garmur actually has the same base capacitor and more regen than a Fed Navy Comet, likewise the BS has better cap regen than a domi navy, so it really isnt as bad as you think it is. I was basing it on the cap per second figures that CCP rise put in the thread.
Which is in the same format as they have done in every ballancing post to date, the way they lay it out is confusing if you dont know what you're looking at.
Look at the pirate ship reballancing posts here in F&I and you'll see that these have better cap regen than half the other pirate faction ships. |
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JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
311
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:55:00 -
[281] - Quote
I WANTS IT
http://i.imgur.com/vWkYQA5.png |
Suitonia
Path of Radiance HYDRA RELOADED
235
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:58:00 -
[282] - Quote
Sascha Naskingar wrote:Suitonia wrote:Sascha Naskingar wrote:Suitonia wrote:Shilalasar wrote:So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs). So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight. This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it-¦s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants). Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap. This was my honest first opinion too. But if you take a closer look at the stats, specifically the capacitor and the lock range stats. I actually think that these ships are balanced, or maybe even vulnerable. All of these ships have the worst capacitor regen per second in the game compared to their counterparts. The NOOBSHIPS have almost the same cap regen per second as the Mordus battleship does. (Again, these may be an error made by CCP Rise, but it's looking more like it's an intentional part of the balancing). I'm sorry, but i'm pretty sure your maths is out on this, from what i can work out the Garmur actually has the same base capacitor and more regen than a Fed Navy Comet, likewise the BS has better cap regen than a domi navy, so it really isnt as bad as you think it is. I was basing it on the cap per second figures that CCP rise put in the thread. Which is in the same format as they have done in every ballancing post to date, the way they lay it out is confusing if you dont know what you're looking at. Look at the pirate ship reballancing posts here in F&I and you'll see that these have better cap regen than half the other pirate faction ships. The ingame figure for the cap recharge on the garmur (in the ship info) would be 195.12
Yes, thank you. I can see where I was wrong now. I was confused with the lack of recharge time listed. |
Bagehi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:59:00 -
[283] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, . Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it. http://i.imgur.com/nGNLCqr.pngI was over on the DPS by a bit, its pretty low, the cruiser should be around the other cruisers in the 7-800 range, lower than some t1 vanilla cruisers but nearly the same as some of the other pirate factions, below a few hacs, above a few others. Not using t2 ammo on t2 rockets? Unless you are shooting a cruiser hull or bigger, no.
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Iam Widdershins
Tempest Legion
849
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:59:00 -
[284] - Quote
Barghest with T2 torpedo launchers, faction torpedoes, and 4x faction damage ballistic controls does exactly 1337 1170 cold missile DPS
...welcome aboard why not 8 launchers! WHY Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
768
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:59:00 -
[285] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I'm just going to throw this out there for discussion... Barghest loses 1 launcher in exchange for a +50% missile damage bonus (9 effective launchers vs. 8.75) and gains another low slot, so 7H-6M-7L.
BARGHEST Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to missile damage Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity (50% penalty to missile flight time)
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 6M, 7L(+1); 0 turrets, 6(-1) launchers Fittings: 11600 PWG, 700 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100 Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 29 Signature radius: 370
That does sound nicer, but I still will buy the ship as it is, who am I kidding every quiet ls I can find i will rat or kill ratters in.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
676
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:01:00 -
[286] - Quote
0/10
another caldari+gallente line they look stupid kiting is dumb faster missiles are good, but something you should be putting on all slow missiles, not a ship bonus tackle range bonuses are horrible and broken, please stop |
ZecsMarquis
Destroyer's Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:08:00 -
[287] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Barghest with T2 torpedo launchers, faction torpedoes, and 4x faction damage ballistic controls does exactly 1337 1170 cold missile DPS
...welcome aboard why not 8 launchers! WHY Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors Get Off My Lawn
118
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:10:00 -
[288] - Quote
CPU's still on the rough side of ****** though. Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now. Fly together, die together. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
136
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:16:00 -
[289] - Quote
This is going to be very interesting. Those missiles are so fast they would tend to reduce the usual disadvantage of missiles; that is, delayed damage. Even with the flight time penalty, they still get a range increase. I think they will also make good snipers.
Their look is really nice too, quite original.
I'm quite curious about the BPC drops... That could make them somehow easy to get if you're lucky :) |
marVLs
614
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:17:00 -
[290] - Quote
ZecsMarquis wrote: Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus.
We have Golem and RNI with application bonus, i would like to get true pirate battleship with pure dps, something like 1,8 - 2k pimped dps (5% imps, 4 faction BCUs). Then it will be used in PVP and PVE |
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Iam Widdershins
Tempest Legion
849
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:20:00 -
[291] - Quote
ZecsMarquis wrote:Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus. I say let the damage application sort itself out, just make the raw damage really high. Practically every other missile ship has an application bonus already, and halved flight time on +50% range missiles is already pretty nifty. All this ship needs is some earth-shaking damage output to make it truly relevant.
1080 DPS with faction torpedoes is not 'really high'. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Bam Stroker
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
183
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:23:00 -
[292] - Quote
I feel like there's a missed opportunity here to add more flavour and make these ships truly unique with an additional (or alternative) bonus:
Reduction to sig radius.
I know that doesn't sound very sexy but stay with me here...
- Their design is clearly inspired by real-word stealth technology (go compare these hulls to a B-2 stealth bomber). Smaller sig radius would play into their aesthetic.
- From what I understand, Mordu's Legion are supposed to have an affinity with ECM. Well they're not getting an ECM bonus per se, but you could say from a lore standpoint that perhaps Mordu's Legion have access to "sophisticated sensor countermeasure packages that mask the electronic profile of their ships", or something like that. One could say that this explanation for their sig reduction is related to the realm of electronic warfare.
- An inherent sig radius reduction would make them take longer to be locked, make them harder to probe and reduce the damage application of incoming fire, particularly from oversized weapons. All desirable traits and it would be a unique advantage among shield tanking ships.
Now, as to whether this bonus is an "as well as" or "instead of" to their current bonus to scram range is one for the number crunchers and peanut gallery to decide, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to add this sig radius bonus and then finesse the numbers to come up with a truly unique pirate race whose bonuses reflect the design & origin(s) of the hull, suit the lore of the faction while being a powerful presence on the battlefield and balanced within the arena of pirate ships. EVE Down Under 2014 (Australia's very own fanfest) 21st to 23rd November 2014 in Sydney, Australia www.evedownunder.com |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
677
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:27:00 -
[293] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:ZecsMarquis wrote:Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus. I say let the damage application sort itself out, just make the raw damage really high. Practically every other missile ship has an application bonus already, and halved flight time on +50% range missiles is already pretty nifty. All this ship needs is some earth-shaking damage output to make it truly relevant. 1080 DPS with faction torpedoes is not 'really high'.
shame they need to reload every 5 seconds and you can only carry about 20 torpedoes in your cargo |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
196
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:32:00 -
[294] - Quote
1. That frigate is more overpowered than the pre-nerf Dramiel. Holy ****. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to take the Crow, add a fitting slot, increase the missile damage by 33%, give it omni-damage potential, and then give it a 14km scram?
2. Why would I ever fly that battleship when the Rattlesnake exists?
3. Please add more agents. The current Mordus agents are in the MoA home system, with VFK-IV being 3 jumps away. You'll have dozens to hundreds of hostiles to deal with trying to mission here, no matter what corp you're in. |
Liam Inkuras
Mafia Redux
1040
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:43:00 -
[295] - Quote
Looks very exciting! I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
677
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:43:00 -
[296] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:1. That frigate is more overpowered than the pre-nerf Dramiel. Holy ****. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to take the Crow, add a fitting slot, increase the missile damage by 33%, give it omni-damage potential, and then give it a 14km scram?
2. Why would I ever fly that battleship when the Rattlesnake exists?
3. Please add more agents. The current Mordus agents are in the MoA home system, with VFK-IV being 3 jumps away. You'll have dozens to hundreds of hostiles to deal with trying to mission here, no matter what corp you're in.
CCP actually seriously thinks that light missiles are not overpowered |
Esteban Dragonovic
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:49:00 -
[297] - Quote
These seem to be, how to say, a bit simple. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if they fit a particular role very well, but as you guys seemed to go on and on at fanfest about how "Pirate Factions break the rules" I don't see that kind of interesting complexity here. The warp scram range bonus does actually play into that reasonably well, but the missile bonus feels kind of lackluster, considering that missiles should really be roughly in those velocities in the first place. I would rather not have a ship line only be good because its the only place where that weapon system actually works.
Perhaps playing with some sort of ecm or sig reduction bonus would liven things up a bit (hopefully not making it too overpowered). Of course arguing about on paper stats is useless if we don't have a first hand feel of how this thing is gonna fly. This needs to be on sisi yesterday so we can see how well these ships work hands on. |
Akashi Suenobu
Raven's Flight Havoc.
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:50:00 -
[298] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Xuixien wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
Remember, when you're adding a bonus of 150%, that's 250% of the original figure.
You still haven't told me how a BONUS of 150% is actually a BONUS of 50%. I'm saying that if you goal is the same range, your suggestion misses it by quite a long way. So tell me again how 150% = 50%?
OMG stfu nobody cares. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6012
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:50:00 -
[299] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Xequecal wrote:1. That frigate is more overpowered than the pre-nerf Dramiel. Holy ****. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to take the Crow, add a fitting slot, increase the missile damage by 33%, give it omni-damage potential, and then give it a 14km scram?
2. Why would I ever fly that battleship when the Rattlesnake exists?
3. Please add more agents. The current Mordus agents are in the MoA home system, with VFK-IV being 3 jumps away. You'll have dozens to hundreds of hostiles to deal with trying to mission here, no matter what corp you're in. CCP actually seriously thinks that light missiles are not overpowered
Which is hilarious given their stance that heavy missiles are overpowered. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Nano Sito
Out Of Pure Selfishness
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 21:50:00 -
[300] - Quote
The battleship sucks. |
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