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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Zamyslinski
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
8
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:06:00 -
[331] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:ok just to show how underpowered this frig is :
DD - 6 effective turrets (stupid op but yeah its there) succubus - 5 effective turrets Cruor - 4 effective turrets + 2 drones worm - cant compare but sure not bad dps of drones + launchers dramiel - 4 effective turret + 3 drones
The new "balanced" stuff - 6.75 effective turrets.
The succubus looks like its class below in term of dps. Even the DD is behind lol (maybe not if you go blasters).
The long t2 point 36km range pre oh, pre faction , pre links.
What can go wrong ...
If you want to justify it by fact that frig doesnt have utility high - then dont even try - dd or succubus would gladly give away utility high for turret.
The Mordus Cruiser is also what the heck : 10 effective turrets + 5 light drones, lets see competition : Scythe fleet - 6 effective launchers +5 drones , Nosprey - not better.
The gap is just too huge, damage is out of control, combined with massive fight control of speed + point range.
The only sane ship is BS - maybe even too weak.
What is my suggestion : buff slightly BS - give it 8th turret and nerf frig/cruiser. Like cut 5% per damage from both.
and add that damn 20% scram range
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2862
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:14:00 -
[332] - Quote
I love the drop mechanics on these. Something really worth fighting over in lowsec belts.
Are the rats that drop them intended to be a) soloable at low skills, b) soloable but only at high skills or c) not likely to be soloable by subcapitals?
And are they designed to be engaged by PVE fits or PVP fits (the latter would entail a predisposition to warping off at low armor unless pointed)? Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
progodlegend
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
167
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:16:00 -
[333] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Rek Seven wrote: I though we were done with this kind of confusing bonus? Why not give them less velocity bonus and do away with the flight penalty? It only matters for the first wave or missiles anyway.
Among other reasons: faster missiles are harder to firewall.
This was brought up by the CSM as an added benefit to the ships velocity bonus, so I'm glad that some people are picking up on that. |
Nac Lac
Vicis Inter Astrum I'd Rather Be Roaming
0
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:26:00 -
[334] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:ok just to show how underpowered this frig is :
DD - 6 effective turrets (stupid op but yeah its there) succubus - 5 effective turrets Cruor - 4 effective turrets + 2 drones worm - cant compare but sure not bad dps of drones + launchers dramiel - 4 effective turret + 3 drones
The new "balanced" stuff - 6.75 effective turrets.
The succubus looks like its class below in term of dps. Even the DD is behind lol (maybe not if you go blasters).
The long t2 point 36km range pre oh, pre faction , pre links.
What can go wrong ...
If you want to justify it by fact that frig doesnt have utility high - then dont even try - dd or succubus would gladly give away utility high for turret.
The Mordus Cruiser is also what the heck : 10 effective turrets + 5 light drones, lets see competition : Scythe fleet - 6 effective launchers +5 drones , Nosprey - not better.
The gap is just too huge, damage is out of control, combined with massive fight control of speed + point range.
The only sane ship is BS - maybe even too weak.
What is my suggestion : buff slightly BS - give it 8th turret and nerf frig/cruiser. Like cut 5% per damage from both.
I know its 15 pages already, but try to read a bit more than the op before posting? As has been pointed out several times, the frigate doesn't have the native targetting range nor the capacitor regen that would make it an utter monster. Still rough on details, yes. However, traits and fitting are only part of the equation. To match the crow in tackle, its more squishy and less dps. To match the tank and gank, it caps itself out quickly.
As a new resident of Lo-sec, a longer point sounds lovely, even on a battleship. Get dropped by a bigger fleet? That longer point could win the field by snagging the one more kiter or logi than your fleets tackle could hold otherwise. |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:31:00 -
[335] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:First.
[edit:
VERY interesting with the missile velocity bonus/flight time penalty.
When will they hit SiSi?
get a life. You are so pathetic. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1856
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:34:00 -
[336] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Really don't like the fact that these are Gallente. Aren't there enough Gallente pirate factions that you don't need to add another? I understand it's a matter of lore, but still.
It's a bit disappointing to see 5/7 Pirate factions be part Gallente. Better hope you all have Gallente trained, because apparently that's the single most useful race to train to unlock almost all pirate factions.
Serious under-representation of the other races here.
amen brother.
missile based pirate faction ships were the only niche left to be filled other then some sort of minning or industry pirate faction and they made it gal/caldari.
funny thing is i have both trained to 5 and all missile skills to v plus shields to v so its not like its going to hurt me...
i was just hoping for a cal/min mix as before SOE ships we needed a min/cal and a gal/amarr. now its kinda unfair for those who dont pick gal as a starting race.
plus minmatar resist would have been much better IMO> There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
100
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:46:00 -
[337] - Quote
Quote: im worried about applying HAM
Are you one of those ones still under the impression that HAMs apply their damage worse than HMLs?
Because they really really don't. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3539
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Posted - 2014.05.12 23:58:00 -
[338] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:That does sound nicer, is there a typo though? do you mean +1 MEDIUM? Cannot really see the need for another low? maybe I'm missing a trick here. But I still will buy the ship as it is, Who am I kidding every quiet ls I can find, I will rat or kill ratters in. Nope. This way you have the option of armor or shield-tanking it, as well as running a nano fit with a full complement of BCU's and DC. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
481
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:00:00 -
[339] - Quote
While getting new ships is completely awesome, the Garmur is already giving me grey hairs. It's like a hookbill on steroids. You can't really fight back and since the dps is decent you can't really tank it either.
Just seems OP to me. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3539
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:13:00 -
[340] - Quote
All the other Pirate Factions get a hidden bonus:
Angel Cartel ... 50% warp speed increase. Sisters of Eve ... Covert Ops cloak and logistics Guristas ... Enhanced passive shield recharge, "Hero Drones" Blood Raiders ... Unlimited vampire, Marauder-like turret damage bonus Sansha ... Marauder-like turret damage bonus Serpentis ... Beast. Nuff said...
Mordu's Legion ships should also receive something unique, and I propose a 50% reduction to missile launcher reload time (5 for normal launchers, 17.5-seconds for rapid launchers). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2491
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:14:00 -
[341] - Quote
Bischopt wrote: You can't really fight back and since the dps is decent you can't really tank it either.
This entire statement is false
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Liam Inkuras
Mafia Redux
1041
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:21:00 -
[342] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Bischopt wrote: You can't really fight back and since the dps is decent you can't really tank it either.
This entire statement is false Confirming that the above statement is false about being falsely false
Edit: to those complaining about the low lock range on the Garmur, it is very easy to fit a lock range rig. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
stoicfaux
4791
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:24:00 -
[343] - Quote
Well nuts, in the context of PvE, it looks like the Golem is still a better ship than the Barghest (except against a couple of battleships, e.g. Core Port Admiral, where it saves a salvo over the Golem.)
I'll post maths later.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
499
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:27:00 -
[344] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:All the other Pirate Factions get a hidden bonus:
Angel Cartel ... 50% warp speed increase. Sisters of Eve ... Covert Ops cloak and logistics Guristas ... Enhanced passive shield recharge, "Hero Drones" Blood Raiders ... Unlimited vampire, Marauder-like turret damage bonus Sansha ... Marauder-like turret damage bonus Serpentis ... Beast. Nuff said...
Mordu's Legion ships should also receive something unique, and I propose a 50% reduction to missile launcher reload time (5 for normal launchers, 17.5-seconds for rapid launchers).
I support this. 5s reload times aren't alien to EVE because Hybrids have them- and oh hey Mordu's Legion are Caldari/Gallente, and both factions use hybrids. Something something repurposed hybrid turret ammunition management systems for use with missile launchers?
And if rapid launchers didn't have a reload time that made me want to pry out my eyes with a spork, I might actually consider using them. The ability to swoop out of "you're gonna die" range might also take the edge off and make the extra 7.5 seconds feel not too bad. |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
226
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:27:00 -
[345] - Quote
Soo.... I can put rocket launchers on a Barghest and they'll be fully bonused? X |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3539
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:29:00 -
[346] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Well nuts, in the context of PvE, it looks like the Golem is still a better ship than the Barghest (except against a couple of battleships, e.g. Core Port Admiral, where it saves a salvo over the Golem.) I'll post maths later. I look forward to your analysis. A few of us have proposed increasing the damage on the Barghest from 5% to 7.5%, and I think that with only 50 Mbit drone bandwidth this would balance out the Barghest nicely.
Don't forget: the Barghest is the black Raven we've always wanted.
Galphii wrote:Soo.... I can put rocket launchers on a Barghest and they'll be fully bonused? I believe that is correct, although we're still awaiting official confirmation from CCP Rise. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
287
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:36:00 -
[347] - Quote
yo, edit the op so it includes calibration for rigs |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3540
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:41:00 -
[348] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:yo, edit the op so it includes calibration for rigs It's 350... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
NinjaStyle
hirr RAZOR Alliance
47
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:47:00 -
[349] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The lock range limitation on the Garmur is very intentional. It may actually not be enough to keep it from being too powerful but it was a tradeoff that helped justify how strong the ship is otherwise.
OP updated with details on how to get these things.
Finally you've done something that I actually think is pretty cool since if you HAVE to fit or feel the NEED to fit a sensor booster you have that 1 less slot to work with and that gives ACTUAL choices not just 'gotta keep the ship ****** in all ways because it has something of everything'
so even thoe that sounds awefully negative i'm sure Good Job. |
stoicfaux
4791
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:53:00 -
[350] - Quote
CCP is showing a severe lack of imagination.
Mordu's Legion is an organized military unit. Their ship classes should synergize with each other (i.e. cover each other weaknesses while amplifying strengths) and not be cookie cutter across ship classes.
Meaning, giving all three ships the same bonus to warp jammer range is unimaginative. It would make more sense (RP sense) to have the smaller faster Mordu ships specialize in getting points on a target, while the heavier ships (i.e. the Barghest) focuses solely on delivering damage to that now "trapped" target.
Frigate - long range points (100% range?) and warp speed Cruiser- 50% range bonus, and/or double points? Or maybe a TP bonus? Battleship- long range missiles to just pound the bejeezus out of the now slowed or AB'ing target with fast missiles. Preferably with torpedoes, because, dammit, getting hit by a flying frying pan should hurt. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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NinjaStyle
hirr RAZOR Alliance
47
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:56:00 -
[351] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:CCP is showing a severe lack of imagination. Mordu's Legion is an organized military unit. Their ship classes should synergize with each other (i.e. cover each other weaknesses while amplifying strengths) and not be cookie cutter across ship classes. Meaning, giving all three ships the same bonus to warp jammer range is unimaginative. It would make more sense (RP sense) to have the smaller faster Mordu ships specialize in getting points on a target, while the heavier ships (i.e. the Barghest) focus solely on delivering damage to that now "trapped" target. Frigate - long range points (100% range?) and warp speed Cruiser- 50% range bonus, and/or double points? Or maybe a TP bonus? Battleship- long range missiles to just pound the bejeezus out of the now slowed or AB'ing target with fast missiles. Preferably with torpedoes, because, dammit, getting hit by a flying frying pan should hurt.
^ I want super OP fleet doctrine in just one line of ships. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3540
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:58:00 -
[352] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Meaning, giving all three ships the same bonus to warp jammer range is unimaginative. It would make more sense (RP sense) to have the smaller faster Mordu ships specialize in getting points on a target, while the heavier ships (i.e. the Barghest) focus solely on delivering damage to that now "trapped" target. You bring up an interesting point, and there's already a precedent for it with the Nestor (logistics instead of Covert Ops cloak). So let me offer a counter-proposal: Give the frigate and cruiser the web disruption bonus to the Garmur and Orthrus, and give the Barghest an ECM bonus instead. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1152
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Posted - 2014.05.13 00:59:00 -
[353] - Quote
NinjaStyle wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP is showing a severe lack of imagination. Mordu's Legion is an organized military unit. Their ship classes should synergize with each other (i.e. cover each other weaknesses while amplifying strengths) and not be cookie cutter across ship classes. Meaning, giving all three ships the same bonus to warp jammer range is unimaginative. It would make more sense (RP sense) to have the smaller faster Mordu ships specialize in getting points on a target, while the heavier ships (i.e. the Barghest) focus solely on delivering damage to that now "trapped" target. Frigate - long range points (100% range?) and warp speed Cruiser- 50% range bonus, and/or double points? Or maybe a TP bonus? Battleship- long range missiles to just pound the bejeezus out of the now slowed or AB'ing target with fast missiles. Preferably with torpedoes, because, dammit, getting hit by a flying frying pan should hurt. ^ I want super OP fleet doctrine in just one line of ships. Honestly, since we're not restricted to using a single line of ships in a fleet, why would it be OP for them all to be in the same line? |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
887
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:06:00 -
[354] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:CCP is showing a severe lack of imagination. Mordu's Legion is an organized military unit. Their ship classes should synergize with each other (i.e. cover each other weaknesses while amplifying strengths) and not be cookie cutter across ship classes. Meaning, giving all three ships the same bonus to warp jammer range is unimaginative. It would make more sense (RP sense) to have the smaller faster Mordu ships specialize in getting points on a target, while the heavier ships (i.e. the Barghest) focus solely on delivering damage to that now "trapped" target. Frigate - long range points (100% range?) and warp speed Cruiser- 50% range bonus, and/or double points? Or maybe a TP bonus? Battleship- long range missiles to just pound the bejeezus out of the now slowed or AB'ing target with fast missiles. Preferably with torpedoes, because, dammit, getting hit by a flying frying pan should hurt.
Omg! Yes!
Non--cookie cutter FTW |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Mordus Angels
887
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:07:00 -
[355] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:NinjaStyle wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP is showing a severe lack of imagination. Mordu's Legion is an organized military unit. Their ship classes should synergize with each other (i.e. cover each other weaknesses while amplifying strengths) and not be cookie cutter across ship classes. Meaning, giving all three ships the same bonus to warp jammer range is unimaginative. It would make more sense (RP sense) to have the smaller faster Mordu ships specialize in getting points on a target, while the heavier ships (i.e. the Barghest) focus solely on delivering damage to that now "trapped" target. Frigate - long range points (100% range?) and warp speed Cruiser- 50% range bonus, and/or double points? Or maybe a TP bonus? Battleship- long range missiles to just pound the bejeezus out of the now slowed or AB'ing target with fast missiles. Preferably with torpedoes, because, dammit, getting hit by a flying frying pan should hurt. ^ I want super OP fleet doctrine in just one line of ships. Honestly, since we're not restricted to using a single line of ships in a fleet, why would it be OP for them all to be in the same line?
Because a point bonus on a battle ship is friggin stupid......
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Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Constructive. Criticism.
99
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:17:00 -
[356] - Quote
to me mordus looks like it will end up like soe, strong frigate and cruiser but underpowered bs. I might be wrong but thats how i feel about the stats without testing fits and all.
If it was me i would give the bs a 25 to 50% tp bonus instead of scramb range. But i know why it was done that way, i may not like the consequences so. |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3540
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:18:00 -
[357] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Because a point bonus on a battle ship is friggin stupid...... If it were more feasible to solo with battleships it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue.
stoicfaux wrote:Frigate - long range points (100% range?) and warp speed Cruiser- 50% range bonus, and/or double points? Or maybe a TP bonus? Battleship- long range missiles to just pound the bejeezus out of the now slowed or AB'ing target with fast missiles. Preferably with torpedoes, because, dammit, getting hit by a flying frying pan should hurt. But back to this excellent suggestion...
Garmur ... 10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range per level Orthrus ... 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level Barghest ... 10% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level, 20% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal and fall off range per level
or...
Barghest ... 10% increase to missile launcher ammunition capacity per level I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
1431
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:28:00 -
[358] - Quote
Wow.
The cruiser has 10 effective missile launchers with 50% range. A 5 x HML, dualprop, scram-dissy-cap boosted, 1600 plated cruiser is entirely possible, dishing out close to 800 DPS with the sig of a shrivelled walnut. Ultimate range control with 15km scram (no links or OH, say hello to 25km scrams) and 32km dissy (45 OH) paired with dualprop.
CCP Rise - is there ANY intent to keep this game balanced? Shoot that which lieth before you and tackle that which runneth away - Ancient Minmatar proverb @_@ http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3540
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:32:00 -
[359] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:The cruiser has 10 effective missile launchers with 50% range. A 5 x HML, dualprop, scram-dissy-cap boosted, 1600 plated cruiser is entirely possible, dishing out close to 800 DPS with the sig of a shrivelled walnut. Ultimate range control with 15km scram (no links or OH, say hello to 25km scrams) and 32km dissy (45 OH) paired with dual prop. Wow, you're kind of exaggerating... With 12 effective launchers, Faction ballistic controls, V skills and +5 implants - even the Tengu can only deal around 750 daps. Heavy assault missile launchers, sure - doable. But heavy missiles? 625-650 dps tops. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1152
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Posted - 2014.05.13 01:34:00 -
[360] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Because a point bonus on a battle ship is friggin stupid...... Never said it wasn't, I only asked why having a line that works with each other was OP. |
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