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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1474
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 10:55:00 -
[511] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Clippy wouldn't be completely out of place, this is spreadsheets online after all. err, Doc Fury.... |
Penny Ernaga
The New Space Empire
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 10:58:00 -
[512] - Quote
Wraith Shardani wrote:Not reading through this thread.
This change is totally game breaking for me, I have decided to cancel subscription on my 3 accounts until this insult to my intelligence is reversed.
Thanks for the good times while they lasted ccp. o/
... I am sad that I have to agree, "totally game breaking" hits the nail on its head. My current pilot license expires in like 25 days, no point to renew it if this is not changed.
P.S.: If someone is interested in taking over a pretty maxed out fleet-boosting-alt, drop me a line in case they keep the in-space-viewblockers. ...oh, wait, silly me, fleet fights are obsolete then, not much use for that anymore... |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
689
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:08:00 -
[513] - Quote
To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:13:00 -
[514] - Quote
These aren't anywhere near as problematic as this whining hints, clearly there is a lot of room for improvements (a bit premature release?) and we really would love to see options for UI stuff like this, but they are already useful in places. Overview is not one of them, they definitely need to show at least the previously available information.
One thing I'd love to see on gate tooltips is sec status of the destination system.
|
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
38
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:16:00 -
[515] - Quote
So two days later still no fix? Come on, how hard can it be to roll back to previous version? I mean, you did keep the rollback point, right? Right?? |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
276
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:19:00 -
[516] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed I personally find unsubbing threats a little too dramatic, but it's definitely not a tiny nuisance.
If you PVP regularly, the new overview and in-space tooltips manage to both eliminate useful gameplay options that we had before and further worsen the gameplay by hiding important information.
Also: another downtime went by and still no improvement? Hurry up CCP! |
Kra RA
Melnie Vanagi The Fourth District
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:36:00 -
[517] - Quote
Guys, seriously, fix please tactical overview. All other ships have brackets if i zoom out, can my ship also have bracket? Because if i zoom out, what i do occasionally when undocking id love to see direction my ship is aligning. Arrow pointing out direction of my nose would be perfect, but there probably might be better solutions. Thnks. |
Nijaza
Ronin Cartel The G0dfathers
15
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Posted - 2014.05.15 11:36:00 -
[518] - Quote
CCP OMFG THESE TOOLTIPS ARE not harming my playing ability at all.
WTF CCP HOW COULD YOU DO THIS!! Somehow i still managed to do relic/data sites fine
HOLY CRAP, these tool tips are HORRENDOUSLY not an epic fail?
Now the token I'm CANCELLING MY SUBSCRIPTION ( not really)
Seriously what is all this crap
I for one thought the tooltips make this game more approachable for new players. Making the EVE learning curse easier should be an important priority, try and see the larger picture here. oh wait, what am i thinking?!?!
EVE MUST REMAIN CRYPTICALLY COMPLICATED for eternity????
No, it doesn't.
That said I'm not against having a disable feature for the tooltips, or maybe different levels ( limited, default, full, etc). Oh, the predictive mouse-thing is freakin awesome as well.
|
Bakuhz
The Horny Heron's Horny Empire
150
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:47:00 -
[519] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Hi, The team is keeping a close eye on this thread (and the others preceding the dev blog), plus other sources of feedback, and we have some work in progress to adjust some aspects and deal with several cases where the new tooltip format is causing problems. Specifically, we've been looking initially at:
- 'Mouse-over on icon column in overview'-only as trigger for new tooltip (this actually would also free us to have different tooltips for specific overview columns if there are cases where that is a benefit in general).
- Some defects with bracket tooltips (including large numbers of brackets breaking tooltips).
- Opacity of bracket tooltip listing.
- Bracket tooltip to not trigger in the case of singleton brackets (this should very much help with the scatter loot as well as other cases).
- Structures with timers and status information (offline, anchoring, etc) showing in the list-form tooltip for brackets.
- Some starmap tooltip defects.
Bla bla bla OFF SWITCH!!!!!!!!!! That's not an exhaustive list and we've noted the comments about timing issues, among others, but certainly timing is a tricky balance. Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully. We'll keep taking in all the feedback and use it in our ongoing design work. A major focus of this team is on improving new player experience by generally raising the level of the all-round player experience. We know this approach is going to require our close attention to feedback and significant iterative work.
BLA BLA BLA OFF SWITCH!!!! AND DONT HIDE IT BEHIND THE FORSAKEN DOOR!!! http://rakah.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=%3CBakuhz
Recruiting PvP minded pilot's new pilot friendly teachers available in various timezones |
Traein Andedare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.05.15 11:51:00 -
[520] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed
They unsub because it sends a message that this tooltip change is **** and it needs to be fixed. More people should be doing it by the way and maybe CCP will get it into their think skulls
If idiots such as yourself were more prevalent in the community we'd have golden bullets right now |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
279
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:01:00 -
[521] - Quote
Nijaza wrote:CCP OMFG THESE TOOLTIPS ARE not harming my playing ability at all. Good for you, but 1) disable option is always a smart feature 2) some of the changes (overivew, brackets) are just plain bad UI design, even the devs' 5y-old kids would've pointed it out to them had they asked: 'mommy why is this thing popping up that tells me a station is a station? I'm not 3 anymore you know!'. |
Traein Andedare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:01:00 -
[522] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:These aren't anywhere near as problematic as this whining hints, clearly there is a lot of room for improvements (a bit premature release?) and we really would love to see options for UI stuff like this, but they are already useful in places. Overview is not one of them, they definitely need to show at least the previously available information.
One thing I'd love to see on gate tooltips is sec status of the destination system.
They dumb down the game but overall yes they are problematic and need some serious work. Absolutely annoying change that needed an adjustment switch on release
More testing and feedback by people other than newly elected CSM (whom I'm not sure got too much info about the release am not sure)
|
Quinten Sarn
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:08:00 -
[523] - Quote
I don't know who came up with this idea, but that person should have put it through a little more testing with the playerbase because this is a textbook example of how not to implement changes to a working system. in most, if not all, pvp situations i encounter decreased streamlining of gameplay due to pop-ups everywhere which for instance obscure critical information or prevent me from warping to a celestial, quite the opposite of what they should be accomplishing. Of course there is potential in this new tooltip system but until it has been overhauled properly it should be 1. optional and 2. disabled by default. |
Traein Andedare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:09:00 -
[524] - Quote
Kenneth Endashi wrote:It is absolutely imperative that we be allowed to turn off tool-tips indefinitely. I am only an explorer. All my skills are in exploring. I am new to the game and I still don't need tool-tips. I do, however, need to be able to see my cans spewing out and all about my cans. I may be new, but I can tell the game is broken. Currently, I can see only tool-tips, and they don't say much of anything.
Here's a tool tip: let me turn off tool tips so I can explore again.
This.
Coming from the new player this patch was supposedly aimed for
Lose. Lose. Lose. all around
On/99.9%likely-OFF switch please
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Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:21:00 -
[525] - Quote
They could give us gold, and we would complain it was too heavy.
I think the (F10) starmap tooltips, are great!
Finally, a way to see sec status, and the selected information for a system, together, in a truncated form?! Nice. Even the solar system names seem improved. Just overall, I'm getting a sense of more information from using the map.
The old 'contextual popup' was a nightmare because it could mistakenly grab your mouse into a huge list of stuff you readily had access to otherwise, and lock you there for a second or two, while all you wanted to do was rotate the map or select another nearby cluster.
Selection a station, and telling me that it's a station, not so much. lol :)
But I don't mind them personally. An option to turn some of them off for older players, seems like a good idea though. I can see how they can feel to be 'too much' at a time. Maybe put them into groups and allow settings to turn some of them off or on.
Maybe even customize what information certain groups provide.
For example, the "Station is Station", tooltip, could be changed to give the name of the station, instead. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:23:00 -
[526] - Quote
Nijaza wrote:EVE MUST REMAIN CRYPTICALLY COMPLICATED for eternity????
No, it doesn't.
No, it doesn't. Was it so complicated to think i don't want tooltip about X in right top corner?
Quote:"...the tooltips when hovering over something in the overview seem quite redundant since they mostly show whats on it anyway
I feel that there should be an option to only show tooltips when a key is pressed
edit: I don't believe that the person that needs a tooltip for the little x in the top right corner of a window should be playing eve, sorry ..." (Crazy KSK)
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:25:00 -
[527] - Quote
Nijaza wrote:I for one thought the tooltips make this game more approachable for new players.
Yes! Because, obviously, the new players won't have enough brain matter to figure that a circle means planet and a square means station! And that is exactly the kind of player we want to be playing EVE with us!
Quote:EVE MUST REMAIN CRYPTICALLY COMPLICATED for eternity????
If EVE seems to be "cryptically complicated" to you, then you're just playing the wrong game. Check out Angry Birds, that should suit you well. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
281
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:30:00 -
[528] - Quote
Darin Vanar wrote:some of the changes are good Sure, that's why it's such a shame they let a couple of awful things slip through untested.
Darin Vanar wrote:For example, the "Station is Station", tooltip, could be changed to give the name of the station, instead. Yup, that's exactly what it did before, that's why so many people are saying 'WTF did you change that for???'. |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:42:00 -
[529] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Darin Vanar wrote:some of the changes are good Sure, that's why it's such a shame they let a couple of awful things slip through untested. Darin Vanar wrote:For example, the "Station is Station", tooltip, could be changed to give the name of the station, instead. Yup, that's exactly what it did before, that's why so many people are saying 'WTF did you change that for???'.
Hehe, that's funny.
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CCP Delegate Zero
C C P C C P Alliance
144
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:47:00 -
[530] - Quote
There's been some great feedback and we're working through a list of tweaks and fixes, with some to come to TQ very soon.
First, I want to address some misconceptions. The test server, AKA SiSi. Some of the new tooltips were A/B tested on SiSi. All the new tooltips were subsequently on SiSi for all accounts on SiSi for two weeks.
Then there is the matter of pre-existing content that has not changed. An example of this is the solar system map. It hasn't changed. Feedback on how much that needs some love is welcome but it's not feedback on the last release. Other examples are many, many tooltips that were pre-existing but are now in a new format, with a different delay. This makes them more noticeable.
Following on from that, we are thinking very seriously about how delay timing interacts with the tooltip contents and context. This is a contender for some configuration options. Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option.
One of the reasons for this is that many, many of the tooltips in the game are not new in a content sense. Format and delay may have changed but the majority have been around for a very long time and they are attached to so many systems and of so many content types that the 'simple fix' of an off switch is really not so simple. On the other hand, as changing delay has exposed some of these to people's perception for the first time, it seems much better to focus on that issue - with improving tooltip content formatting where necessary as a followup measure.
To the list of things we will have ready to deploy very soon:
UI tweaks:
When you hover over brackets in space the full name and distance is displayed next to the bracket.
The tooltip that explains the details of the icon associated with an overview entry is now displayed only when hovering over the icon in the overview.
The tooltips for the buttons in the Selected Item window no longer overlap with the important information in that window.
The tooltip for the skill queue in the NeoCom now continuously updates the remaining skill training time.
The name column in the overview now has a tooltip with detailed name information for that entry.
A number of changes have been made to the bracket list tooltip for overlapping brackets in space:
- The bracket list tooltip is no longer displayed for single brackets
- The logic for picking which brackets to include in the list has been greatly improved
- The bracket status information (such as reinforcement time and anchored status) has been added to the entries in the list
- The list now has a maximum width limit
- The list background has a slight transparency applied to it
- An issue has been fixed that kept the list open after interacting with it
Fixes:
A number of hardcoded statistics strings in the starmap tooltips have been replaced with properly localized strings.
The indicator overlay on overview icons that you have targeted is no longer overlapped by the icon itself.
Fixed the anchoring position of the tooltips in the map browser (opened with F11).
This is not an exhaustive list of incoming fixes, nor the end of the tuning work. Moreover, we plan to expand and iterate on tooltips going forward.
CCP Delegate Zero | Game Designer | @CCPDelegateZero |
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Traein Andedare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:47:00 -
[531] - Quote
Darin Vanar wrote:They could give us gold, and we would complain it was too heavy.
I think the (F10) starmap tooltips, are great!
Finally, a way to see sec status, and the selected information for a system, together, in a truncated form?! Nice. Even the solar system names seem improved. Just overall, I'm getting a sense of more information from using the map.
The old 'contextual popup' was a nightmare because it could mistakenly grab your mouse into a huge list of stuff you readily had access to otherwise, and lock you there for a second or two, while all you wanted to do was rotate the map or select another nearby cluster.
Selecting a station, and telling me that it's a station, not so much. lol :)
But I don't mind them personally. An option to turn some of them off for older players, seems like a good idea though. I can see how they can feel to be 'too much' at a time. Maybe put them into groups and allow settings to turn some of them off or on.
Maybe even customize what information certain groups provide.
For example, the "Station is Station", tooltip, could be changed to give the name of the station, instead.
I wouldn't describe anything about this last patch gold except for the mouse prediction. Alot of these changes are making people pull their hair out and changes like these shouldn't have been pushed out without more feedback and a way to adjust the feature on release.
Overview with completely redundant information popups. Bad.
redundant Black boxes that popup in space and obscure your view. Bad
Anything that isn't eyestabbingly bad here is just a questionable facelift of what we had before
Gold aint here son prospect somewhere else
|
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
478
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:55:00 -
[532] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To those unsubbing over a this tiny little nuisance; you will not be missed . . . 'cos you can't be seen behind the tooltips anyway. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
286
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:55:00 -
[533] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Much appreciated and detailed feedback Thank you very much. Looks like an excellent way forward. |
Eurynome Mangeiri
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 12:58:00 -
[534] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:There's been some great feedback and we're working through a list of tweaks and fixes, with some to come to TQ very soon. First, I want to address some misconceptions. The test server, AKA SiSi. Some of the new tooltips were A/B tested on SiSi. All the new tooltips were subsequently on SiSi for all accounts on SiSi for two weeks. Then there is the matter of pre-existing content that has not changed. An example of this is the solar system map. It hasn't changed. Feedback on how much that needs some love is welcome but it's not feedback on the last release. Other examples are many, many tooltips that were pre-existing but are now in a new format, with a different delay. This makes them more noticeable. Following on from that, we are thinking very seriously about how delay timing interacts with the tooltip contents and context. This is a contender for some configuration options. Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option. One of the reasons for this is that many, many of the tooltips in the game are not new in a content sense. Format and delay may have changed but the majority have been around for a very long time and they are attached to so many systems and of so many content types that the 'simple fix' of an off switch is really not so simple. On the other hand, as changing delay has exposed some of these to people's perception for the first time, it seems much better to focus on that issue - with improving tooltip content formatting where necessary as a followup measure. To the list of things we will have ready to deploy very soon: UI tweaks:When you hover over brackets in space the full name and distance is displayed next to the bracket. The tooltip that explains the details of the icon associated with an overview entry is now displayed only when hovering over the icon in the overview. The tooltips for the buttons in the Selected Item window no longer overlap with the important information in that window. The tooltip for the skill queue in the NeoCom now continuously updates the remaining skill training time. The name column in the overview now has a tooltip with detailed name information for that entry. A number of changes have been made to the bracket list tooltip for overlapping brackets in space:
- The bracket list tooltip is no longer displayed for single brackets
- The logic for picking which brackets to include in the list has been greatly improved
- The bracket status information (such as reinforcement time and anchored status) has been added to the entries in the list
- The list now has a maximum width limit
- The list background has a slight transparency applied to it
- An issue has been fixed that kept the list open after interacting with it
Fixes:A number of hardcoded statistics strings in the starmap tooltips have been replaced with properly localized strings. The indicator overlay on overview icons that you have targeted is no longer overlapped by the icon itself. Fixed the anchoring position of the tooltips in the map browser (opened with F11). This is not an exhaustive list of incoming fixes, nor the end of the tuning work. Moreover, we plan to expand and iterate on tooltips going forward. 1- great to hear some feedback from you, much apprieciated 2- what is a problem, at least for me, is that the tooltips are on a big box preventing us from clicking whatever is behind, making it more transparent doesn't solve the issue at all !!!! 3- another issue is the delay, to put it short, it should be customisable setting
all in all, you can't, on a new feature, insert a on/off option.....this means that said feature wasn't thought with this possibility, and with CCP history regarding that kind of feature, this is just astonishingly non-professional.
tldr; half baked update, then half backed pacth wich doesn't solve the #1 issue ppl have with said update => failure
conclusion: rollback to previous eve |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1887
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:00:00 -
[535] - Quote
Those fixes, tomorrow or Kronos? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:02:00 -
[536] - Quote
Traein Andedare wrote:Darin Vanar wrote:They could give us gold, and we would complain it was too heavy.
I think the (F10) starmap tooltips, are great!
Finally, a way to see sec status, and the selected information for a system, together, in a truncated form?! Nice. Even the solar system names seem improved. Just overall, I'm getting a sense of more information from using the map.
The old 'contextual popup' was a nightmare because it could mistakenly grab your mouse into a huge list of stuff you readily had access to otherwise, and lock you there for a second or two, while all you wanted to do was rotate the map or select another nearby cluster.
Selecting a station, and telling me that it's a station, not so much. lol :)
But I don't mind them personally. An option to turn some of them off for older players, seems like a good idea though. I can see how they can feel to be 'too much' at a time. Maybe put them into groups and allow settings to turn some of them off or on.
Maybe even customize what information certain groups provide.
For example, the "Station is Station", tooltip, could be changed to give the name of the station, instead. I wouldn't describe anything about this last patch gold except for the mouse prediction. Alot of these changes are making people pull their hair out and changes like these shouldn't have been pushed out without more feedback and a way to adjust the feature on release. Overview with completely redundant information popups. Bad. redundant Black boxes that popup in space and obscure your view. Bad Anything that isn't eyestabbingly bad here is just a questionable facelift of what we had before Gold aint here son prospect somewhere else
Did you check the map? I thought that was an improvement as well as the better contextual menus. |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
46
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:05:00 -
[537] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:When you hover over brackets in space the full name and distance is displayed next to the bracket.
Does this appear instantly, as it did before, or with the new delay?
The rest of the changes appear to be all good, one thing seems to be missing though: the tooltip with information on an item stack blocks the view of the rest of the inventory window. It could perhaps be moved on a side of the inventory window, since when working with inventory, the tooltip blocking something outside of it is not as bad as when it blocks the very window you're looking at.
Oh, and another thing that's missing, the space that tooltips take is too large due to the font size and sometimes formatting (a shortcut info adding a whole new line, most of which is empty, for example). |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1476
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:07:00 -
[538] - Quote
Though I will say I am happy about the columns in the overview, thanks for the update. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:14:00 -
[539] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option.
Forget about switch off, it was designed without such option. So as gate jumps.
Tooltip to Devs. UI is good when it can be modified to player needs ("User"). On/off on UI is a must.
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
481
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 13:32:00 -
[540] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote: The list background has a slight transparency applied to it "Slight" doesn't cut it. Should be at least 50% or, better still, give us an option to adjust it to personal taste. You know, just like we can on our tv's and dvd recorders. The technology is out there - use it. |
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