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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2650
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 22:34:00 -
[601] - Quote
"We understand that things are a bit **** at the moment. What we are going to do is try and polish this turd until it is mildly acceptable.
Hopefully you will all be quiet after that. Just because something is less functional than before, does not mean that we can't introduce it. Until you realise this we will continue to push out faulty patches without any customisation options.
Jesus, what is wrong with you people."
PS. "Now you get 10 patches a year to endure this.....HAHAHA."
Seriously - just code ON/OFF switches for new UI features - we aren't asking too much. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Little Chubby
Atrocity.
19
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Posted - 2014.05.15 23:20:00 -
[602] - Quote
Honestly? Most of the tooltips are great, so long as they can be changed to be customized as to delay and transparency. Cool. Everyone loves information.
But for the love of all that is holy, remove the goddamn giant scrollblock of death. Making it easier to see through doesn't cut it when it's in the way of what you need to click on.
An obstructive scroll list that prevents you from clicking what is behind it is wholly unwanted and objectively damaging to the game. If you've every tried to manual pilot in a fight or similar, you'd know this and see that it's making the game unplayable for many people. Some people like information, I've seen NOBODY like the brick of death. Remove it, or at least give it a 5-10 second delay by default. If somebody wants to see that list, they'll hover it for that long, else the old system works in actual gameplay far, far better in every situation. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21745
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:36:00 -
[603] - Quote
Little Chubby wrote:brick of death This is the correct nomenclature. The whole GÇ£tool tipGÇ¥ thing is just an expression of wishful thinking.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Sumarx
Interstellar eXodus Advent of Fate
1
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Posted - 2014.05.15 23:50:00 -
[604] - Quote
The Past Patch Should be called the Black Plague Patch as its Slowly Killing your Game! As a Veteran player you guys have made mistakes and the only way to shine again is to fix the problem. You once decided to take out ship spinning, last I looked that went over well and your player base was happy to get it back. Its the small things we all grow accustom to. Like the Jove like to say If its not Broke don't fix it !!! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6216
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:00:00 -
[605] - Quote
It is not hyperbole to say that I basically cannot play the game anymore.
Not for lack of desire, either. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1789
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:45:00 -
[606] - Quote
Would it be possible to bundle AdBlock Plus with the next eve client so that the user base has the option to block annoying popups? |
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
419
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:47:00 -
[607] - Quote
It occurred me earlier while trying to work my way around the involuntary spamtips in space. There is a great way for CCP to keep them, modify them, love them hug them hold them close, or whatever they want to do with them. My way would keep them away from us that don't need them, but make them instantly available to a newbro pilot that needs to know something.
Ready?
Here it comes.
The simple solution is;
PUT THEM IN THE SHOW INFO PANEL OF THE RADIAL MENU. Make them a 'drag out' selection of that panel much like the way dragging the pointer out of 'keep at range', 'orbit', etc changes the value as you move the mouse pointer away from center.
It's a perfect fix. You can do it for every single tooltip in the game. You wont have to tweak timings, transparency, the hang time before it disappears, nothing. Just move the trigger to the radial menu and problem solved. The radial menu ALREADY has the features we want for the tooltips. Variable delay, it's usage is voluntary in design, and it can be moved to another mouse button. (Personally, I set it on the center wheel button and turn the delay down to minimal. If I want the radial, it's instant.)
That's it. Give this post likes if you like this idea and we can ram it down CCP's throat together. They can do this. Any chimpanzee can code this in an hour.
. EVE's only legitimate ISK halving service. I have 500Billion to not give away. It's easy for you to double my money. Just send me some isk, has to be 100Mil or higher, and I will send you back half. I can't lose. One guaranteed winner every round. Do it now. |
Little Chubby
Atrocity.
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 01:09:00 -
[608] - Quote
Perhaps this was the prototype. (As found on Reddit, with a touch of my own.) |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 01:15:00 -
[609] - Quote
I want a tooltip that tells me that the tooltip I'm hovering over is, in fact, a tooltip.
Please don't forget to incorporate that into your future release. |
Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 01:28:00 -
[610] - Quote
Belt Scout wrote:It occurred me earlier while trying to work my way around the involuntary spamtips in space. There is a great way for CCP to keep them, modify them, love them hug them hold them close, or whatever they want to do with them. My way would keep them away from us that don't need them, but make them instantly available to a newbro pilot that needs to know something.
Ready?
Here it comes.
The simple solution is;
PUT THEM IN THE SHOW INFO PANEL OF THE RADIAL MENU. Make them a 'drag out' selection of that panel much like the way dragging the pointer out of 'keep at range', 'orbit', etc changes the value as you move the mouse pointer away from center.
It's a perfect fix. You can do it for every single tooltip in the game. You wont have to tweak timings, transparency, the hang time before it disappears, nothing. Just move the trigger to the radial menu and problem solved. The radial menu ALREADY has the features we want for the tooltips. Variable delay, it's usage is voluntary in design, and it can be moved to another mouse button. (Personally, I set it on the center wheel button and turn the delay down to minimal. If I want the radial, it's instant.)
That's it. Give this post likes if you like this idea and we can ram it down CCP's throat together. They can do this. Any chimpanzee can code this in an hour.
.
I don't know, that's asking a lot. From the chimps.
They don't have opposable thumbs. |
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Cpt Reb
Interstellar eXodus Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 02:22:00 -
[611] - Quote
I absolutly HATE the tooltips!!!!!!! Cut this crap out it ruins the game for me and a lot of others from what I hear and read! You should delete tooltips and never ever consider doing it again. |
ViRtUoZone
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
14
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 02:48:00 -
[612] - Quote
I hate that I keep seeing, 'you should have been on the test server and tested it for them.' Hell no. I'm not paying CCP so that I can spend my time testing their game. 'Oh well how can you complain if you didn't test them?' Because the things take up half the screen and have (for anyone that's been playing this game for any period of time) zero functionality bonus and not adding an off button should have been a pretty obviously horrible idea.
Main point, I'm not asking you to stop appealing to new players. But pay some attention what your old ones are saying, they might know a bit more than you would expect. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
210
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:05:00 -
[613] - Quote
I've read the 31 pages of this thread so far, because I have a vested interest in these changes because they affect my own game play (negatively) but also because I strongly think they will harm new players. Here's something notable about the 31 pages of comments so far: as far as I can tell, virtually no one has said the tool tips have improved their game play. Of the few that have said the tool tips should stay in game, not one, as far as I've read, has given concrete examples of which tool tips or which change besides the predictive mouse movements have benefited them.
Rarely are a wide variety of eve players in agreement about changes in the game, but when it comes to tool tips it looks as if virtually everyone, even newer players posting here, hate them.
Also, 31 pages in and no CCP Rise? He gave the NPE presentation at fanfest, so where is he in this thread? Maybe he can explain what the hell went so wrong. |
Marcel Brinalle
Deadspace Coalition
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:08:00 -
[614] - Quote
Dear CCP Delegate Zero,
Seems like you are unable to adress your customers issues, or even notice them. Can I have a contact to your manager, supervisor on anybody above your paygrade? You were clearly told to stick to the crap you made, I want to contact the person who told you that.
There is simply no point talking with you, you will just repeat some yadda yadda how great everything is (or will be after 10 patches), when players use this failed system on everyday basis and get irrated.
You buy a car, and on delivery it appears that windscreen is painted white. You complain that you can't see much. Dealer tells you that in two weeks they will change the paint to half transparent, and paint only half of windscreen.
"Why can't you give me clear windscreen, like in my previous car" Dealer says "Because thats what we decided and we're gonna continue this way" and turns around and closes his office doors behind him, leaving you outside with you car.
You get me?
I see no reason not to rollback this update after having this kind of feedback. Sticking to it is just a sign of ego size of Mount Everest and being certain that you are right. Always. And if not, check my previous sentence. I suggest landing from these clouds between people you serve and listening to them, as service provider should. You owe them respect, because of them you're getting paid every month.
Seriously, why don't you want to roll it back? Do you know how you look like? How old are you? 14??? |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
409
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:19:00 -
[615] - Quote
Please, CCP, for the love of all that is holy, please do not listen to the users on what the UI should look like. I bring you the first rule of usability:
http://www.nngroup.com/articles/first-rule-of-usability-dont-listen-to-users/
Putting my UX hat on, the tooltips will be good for the NPE because despite the fact that existing players know what a station is, new players won't and having that show up is good for new players. You can expand this to all sorts of things.
Existing players, please don't presume that putting tooltips on things is trying to insult you. You're all super hardcore and the tooltips aren't saying otherwise. The blocking of things in space and the loss of overview information is something that needs to be address, but calling for everything to be removed or rolled back isn't going to happen and shouldn't happen (again UX hat on).
So please, CCP, iterate away. Deal with the issues at hand and continue to improve the client. It's certainly going to mean that when I try and get people to play, I'm not going to have to answer a never-ending sequence of questions that the UI really should already tell them.
And finally, for all the players complaining about the overview telling you it's a station, if the name of something in the overview is something like Xxx Trade Hub and the Type is Xxx Hub, and the symbol is a square, how is a new player supposed to automatically know that that item is a station? For those claiming that CCP didn't think about the play experience, it's just about as bad to presume that every player knows what every symbol is. |
Marcel Brinalle
Deadspace Coalition
18
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:28:00 -
[616] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:The blocking of things in space and the loss of overview information is something that needs to be address, but calling for everything to be removed or rolled back isn't going to happen and shouldn't happen
And here is where you are totally wrong. I'm not saying the idea is wrong, I's saying this update is failed. This update should be rolled back and not introduced until issues are resolved. This is how any professional company would deal with it. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:49:00 -
[617] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Putting my UX hat on, the tooltips will be good for the NPE because despite the fact that existing players know what a station is, new players won't and having that show up is good for new players. Of course they will - they learn that within a hour of entering the game.
Quintessen wrote:And finally, for all the players complaining about the overview telling you it's a station, if the name of something in the overview is something like Xxx Trade Hub and the Type is Xxx Hub, and the symbol is a square, how is a new player supposed to automatically know that that item is a station? Because he learns that in his first hour of play.
|
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
409
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:52:00 -
[618] - Quote
Marcel Brinalle wrote:Quintessen wrote:The blocking of things in space and the loss of overview information is something that needs to be address, but calling for everything to be removed or rolled back isn't going to happen and shouldn't happen And here is where you are totally wrong. I'm not saying the idea is wrong, I's saying this update is failed. This update should be rolled back and not introduced until issues are resolved. This is how any professional company would deal with it.
I'm a software architect specializing in UI, among other things, that has worked for a lot of major companies -- professional companies -- and this kind of thing happens all the time. It's not pretty, it's not desired, but the cost of rollback is usually high enough that unless it's a blocker (e.g. crashing, data corruption, etc.), the stuff sits out there and a patch is released as soon as possible.
You have to measure the cost of fixing the problem compared to the cost of rolling it back. Rollbacks are usually very expensive on live systems like EVE. Which is why it doesn't happen very often. In fact, I'm not sure it's ever happened in EVE. |
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
409
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:53:00 -
[619] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Quintessen wrote:Putting my UX hat on, the tooltips will be good for the NPE because despite the fact that existing players know what a station is, new players won't and having that show up is good for new players. Of course they will - they learn that within a hour of entering the game. Quintessen wrote:And finally, for all the players complaining about the overview telling you it's a station, if the name of something in the overview is something like Xxx Trade Hub and the Type is Xxx Hub, and the symbol is a square, how is a new player supposed to automatically know that that item is a station? Because he learns that in his first hour of play.
They've already mentioned they want to get rid of the tutorials -- the thing that teaches them in the first hour. So a precursor to that is tooltips that tell you what the tutorial no longer will. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:55:00 -
[620] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: They've already mentioned they want to get rid of the tutorials -- the thing that teaches them in the first hour.
Link, please. |
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Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
409
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 04:03:00 -
[621] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Quintessen wrote: They've already mentioned they want to get rid of the tutorials -- the thing that teaches them in the first hour.
Link, please.
New Player Experience talk @ Fanfest 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHqFgn4SOw&list=PLldrBIEnJ5hMIXwk_e8-VZb0EldJqXmg_
starting @ about 7:00.
The whole thing is really worth a watch. |
Marcel Brinalle
Deadspace Coalition
18
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 04:22:00 -
[622] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Marcel Brinalle wrote:Quintessen wrote:The blocking of things in space and the loss of overview information is something that needs to be address, but calling for everything to be removed or rolled back isn't going to happen and shouldn't happen And here is where you are totally wrong. I'm not saying the idea is wrong, I's saying this update is failed. This update should be rolled back and not introduced until issues are resolved. This is how any professional company would deal with it. I'm a software architect specializing in UI, among other things, that has worked for a lot of major companies -- professional companies -- and this kind of thing happens all the time. It's not pretty, it's not desired, but the cost of rollback is usually high enough that unless it's a blocker (e.g. crashing, data corruption, etc.), the stuff sits out there and a patch is released as soon as possible. You have to measure the cost of fixing the problem compared to the cost of rolling it back. Rollbacks are usually very expensive on live systems like EVE. Which is why it doesn't happen very often. In fact, I'm not sure it's ever happened in EVE.
I don't have to measure anything. It's CCP problem, not mine. My problem, as an explorer, is that instead of clicking cans I click tooltips, and that I need to wait too long for them to appear. It broke my game. Game I paid for. Period. I won't even mention other things (yeah, I do other things too on a side) where these tooltips are nothing but annoying, and sometimes just an obstacle.
It's CCP who should deal with that, not me. I said it once, gonna say it second time: I pay, I demand.
Btw, I wonder, what consequences (if any...) will meet the person responsible.
|
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 04:57:00 -
[623] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: Putting my UX hat on, the tooltips will be good for the NPE because despite the fact that existing players know what a station is, new players won't and having that show up is good for new players.
The game does not end at new players.
Before thinking about how to implement tooltips we first need to understand why we need tooltips in the first place and what for. Or we may just as well start implementing wings on trucks. Just because we can.
If we need tooltips for NPE and we want them everywhere, then let NEW players have them, because countless ad popups get annoying fast when you already know what they would say before they appear and just sit there dreading the inevitable black monolith of death and eternal suffering, and there's no AdBlock for EVE.
If we need tooltips to show useful information then make them show useful information. PROTIP: I know caracal is a cruiser. In fact I knew caracal is a cruiser BEFORE I downloaded EVE client for the first time. In fact I will remember that caracal is a cruiser for the rest of my life after first seeing it. I don't need the game to remind me that caracal is, in fact, a cruiser. And that the sun is, in fact, a sun. Every single bloody time.
And if we want to give players useful information, then we have to determine first which information is useful when. If I see a ship warping out to a bunch of celestials, the useful information is which celestial I'm pointing my mouse at. Not a christmas shopping list. Not a content of my cargo. Not JUST a list of celestials in a general direction of somewhere. I need to see the specific one.
When in space, there are certain layers of information depending on urgency. Spatial awareness (and the ability to immediately act on it) comes first, and any work on relaying information to the player must never be done on the expence of it.
In their current iteration tooltips are there for the sake of tooltips. "Hey look, we can do this new shiny black boxes, let's put them everywhere without any thought put into why we need them". |
Merida DunBrogh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 05:04:00 -
[624] - Quote
Should I remind you all about the Inventory Changes? They were goddamn HORRIBLE at first, but have since then beome usable and for me personally as quick as the old system.
So far I have not noticed much trouble with the tooltips, the overview and the scrollable selection box are a bit silly I'll admit but most of them are fine. Give them time to fix the issues that have been raised and it will likely turn out fine.
The inventory system wasn't fixed in 1 day either. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 05:18:00 -
[625] - Quote
I watched all of that presentation live and IGÇÖve just watched the whole thing again. CCP Rise doesnGÇÖt say they want to get rid of the tutorials, plural (in fact he quite specifically says they have no intention of touching the career tutorials), but says they want to replace the introductory tutorial with a different form of tutorial which presents information in a more general, more involving manner GÇô primarily by getting rid of all the text boxes. So new players would still learn what a station is, but not as part of an isolated, stand-alone concept as happens at the moment. |
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence Mean Coalition
74
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 05:18:00 -
[626] - Quote
Merida DunBrogh wrote:Should I remind you all about the Inventory Changes? They were goddamn HORRIBLE at first, but have since then beome usable and for me personally as quick as the old system.
So far I have not noticed much trouble with the tooltips, the overview and the scrollable selection box are a bit silly I'll admit but most of them are fine. Give them time to fix the issues that have been raised and it will likely turn out fine.
The inventory system wasn't fixed in 1 day either.
yeas it took almost a year to get old functionality back ^^
\o/
Please tell me ANY Reason for Tooltip like this http://i.imgur.com/Y2l83xi.jpg
|
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
129
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 06:15:00 -
[627] - Quote
Merida DunBrogh wrote:Should I remind you all about the Inventory Changes? They were goddamn HORRIBLE at first, but have since then beome usable and for me personally as quick as the old system.
So far I have not noticed much trouble with the tooltips, the overview and the scrollable selection box are a bit silly I'll admit but most of them are fine. Give them time to fix the issues that have been raised and it will likely turn out fine.
The inventory system wasn't fixed in 1 day either.
so you are telling us that we need to wait another 6 month or so till the game become playable again? really? and that is a good thing because? because after those six months we will have the game that we had last week? the game was working fine, no one asked for this stupidity. instead ppl are asking for some stuff FOR YEARS NOW - nulsec sov fix, pos rebalance- and CCP is wasting time and hundreds of hours of developing time on crap like this or some new deployables that no one want or use.
The CEO of CCP promised on this forums that CCP will not ignoring their playerbase anymore and listen to what they say; so here we are and we say: "stop wasting your time on such useles things and for the hundred time again, if it's not broken don't fix it; oh and GIVE US THE DAMN OFF SWITCH ALREADY! "
p.s.: man, if they screw up such a big time on a such small issue, i can't even begin to consider what will happen with industry patch where they will change basically half of the game |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
3882
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 06:17:00 -
[628] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Following on from that, we are thinking very seriously about how delay timing interacts with the tooltip contents and context. This is a contender for some configuration options. Enough people have asked about an off switch that I think I have to give a straight answer to this: a blanket off switch is not a strong contender as a configuration option.
Then give me a Bloody configuration option to revert back to the old tooltip.
Atleast those did not...
Obscure my view Stop me from selecting or clicking on something behind the big black box since it blots out half the view-able area. GIVE ME LESS INFO about what i see on my overview. Seriously.... this is a FRIGATE? What happened with corp/alliance Popups EVERYWHERE for idiot things.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2393
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 06:26:00 -
[629] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:The tool tip window in space is absolutely horrible in highly cluttered situations. Having a huge scrollable window smack in the middle of the action? Who came up with this idea?
The same person who an up with the horrendous exploration loot spew? This is not a signature. |
Penny Ernaga
The New Space Empire
25
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 07:06:00 -
[630] - Quote
EPIC! ...and so sad that this is what it is...
What we are now missing is another confirmation popup box, asking e.g.: "Are you really sure you want to activate your scram on the object locked? - YES / NO / LATER"
You made my day, bro! |
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