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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Liandrin Rere
The TERRA Guardians of Serenity
0
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:12:00 -
[151] - Quote
Did you realy need to make it harder to loot after the hacking mini game? Befor it was some what easy too see the names of the containers but now it takes a sec to get see the name and that is time you dont always have. |
Alternative Splicing
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:15:00 -
[152] - Quote
Everyone likes new stuff, but not everyone likes losing old stuff that was 100% OK and working. In this case, I would very much like to have a way to turn basically all of these new tips and UI changes off immediately. You can turn tutorials off (thank god). Just package this screen clogging information overload with the tutorial stuff, or some other easy to find place such that I can tick a box and resume playing the game. I would be much happier to log in tomorrow and see the UI exactly how it was yesterday, but with the option, should I chose it, to have this, though I almost never would use it.
Forcing stuff onto otherwise happy people isn't good. |
Ivan Taredi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:23:00 -
[153] - Quote
A few things I have noticed today: Neocom skill bar no longer keeps real time until skill completion, distance of a locked object and its corresponding unit in overview not synchronized, no name of station when hovered over in overview. Don't like any of this. Won't be able to see the Charlie-Foxtrot the loot spew is until another few days (refuse to run data/relic sites on this 15 inch screen laptop as it's too tiny). Playing on a laptop with the new tooltips is a major pain. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1842
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:24:00 -
[154] - Quote
Geezus, this is ridiculous...
And I thought that you switched to shorter release cycle to avoid shipping half-assed features. Nice job, I hope CCP Seagul will mention this frakk up in her next entry in dream journal. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
684
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:28:00 -
[155] - Quote
To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.
The thing that is annoying is that it pops up instantly where there should be a delay. The delay is meant for those who do not know what something does to get more info, while those who know it's function can instantly use it without having to read the tooltip.
Implement delay = everyone happy. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Tek Handle
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
52
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:30:00 -
[156] - Quote
I like the new Tooltips. However, iirc the old Tooltip was auto-updating its content when you hovered over the Training Queue on the Neocom. Now, that's not the case anymore. On that topic, can we please have auto-updating Tooltips for brackets (distance) in space? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9755
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:34:00 -
[157] - Quote
Redundant info 1 Thanks CCP, I didn't know those were tracking speed scripts and I didn't know how many I had.
Redundant info 2 This should really say "overview options". I know what my active overview configuration is, it's already listed like 15 pixels down and to the right.
Redundant info 3 The rest of the tooltip is nice, but it doesn't need to be titled. Again, this info is already shown.
Redundant info 4 This I kind of understand given how you've redone bracket tooltips, but you should really avoid showing this if it's just one bracket being shown.
Redundant info 5 Again, you don't need the title. The rest is fine.
This is not a pilot.
There is only one Sun. This is a star.
This module doesn't even have a fitting window tooltip. (Energized Armor Layering Membrane II)
And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess: WTF? Seriously, WTF? "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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ForceM
POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem
14
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Hi,
*snip*
Also, we're not going to ignore the points controlling display of tooltips, to the contrary, but we do think this is something that bears thinking about carefully.
*snip*
Yes it does indeed. Because at this point i think i speak for alot of ppl that playing Hello Kitty Online insults us less then EVE Online kiddy style.
Let me make sure you get this correctly. Think carefully about what we want ... not about what you want. If you seriously want this tooltip stuff in then make it opt-in ... not mandatory.
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Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:36:00 -
[159] - Quote
As a relatively new player, may I also request for a way to turn these off and/or remove them.
The delay in animations and location of them is making the already irritating loot spew mechanic of relic and data sites significantly worse, owing to the delay in identifying which can is which, and the tooltip obscures other cans from being selected.
Yes, I've read that the loot spew mechanic is being removed some time in the future, however making the current system even more irritating and unusable in the meantime isn't the answer. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5276
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:37:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:There seems to be a number of websites and articles that explore this clever trick- the common popular cited reference implementation does seem to be Amazon, also reflected in the proposal of the feature in Reasonable Things as the 'Amazon menu hack'. It seems mildly dishonest to leave out this information and pass it off as your own- if this were a research paper, that would be plagiarism. That said, it's not too late to correct such an omission either.
I first encountered the "predictive" menu thing as "menu hysteresis" on Apple Macintosh System 6 (way back in 1990), it's not an Amazon invention. And it's not even predictive, it's hysteresis, which means it's taking time to react to the mouse leaving the menu, rather than opening up menus in advance of the mouse arriving :)
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Ivan Taredi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:40:00 -
[161] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:*snip* And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess: WTF?Seriously, WTF?*snip* Mother of God... |
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
41
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:40:00 -
[162] - Quote
The predictive menu path stuff is all well and good, but the new tooltips are plain daft, why couldn't the guy who implemented these have done something useful instead like:
Create an option to disable the bloody scanner overlay.
Fix the overview so that it remembers sort order for each tab.
Create a shortcut key for 'Orbit at current range'.
Create shortcut keys that open either the Star Map or System Map directly without having to go to the one you don't want to look at first.
Or any one of the 1000 other trivial improvements that the players have been asking for for years? |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
469
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:41:00 -
[163] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens. Yep, I did that in this window.
Nothing happened. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1842
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:42:00 -
[164] - Quote
Ivan Taredi wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:*snip* And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess: WTF?Seriously, WTF?*snip* Mother of God...
I'm afraid even She won't help here... I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:46:00 -
[165] - Quote
I can't get the example shown in the blog, where it tells you what facilities a station has :(
It should really work with you just mouse overing it on the overview.. :/ |
Ivan Taredi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:47:00 -
[166] - Quote
Also, mousing over a skill in my list no longer shows me how much of an increase that training the next level will give. Really don't like that. |
Corvald Tyrska
Dha'Vargar
56
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
The tooltip for Autopilot is misleading. It should say something along the lines of: "Activate the Autopilot to lose your ship and all of your cargo" |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
469
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:55:00 -
[168] - Quote
Quote:GÇóOverview entries have tooltips showing icon, group name, and status information where applicable How exactly does the single word "Station" comply with the above? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6102
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:58:00 -
[169] - Quote
Ivan Taredi wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:*snip* And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess: WTF?Seriously, WTF?*snip* Mother of God...
Please take note, when I say that the new tooltips make the game unplayable, that is precisely what I am talking about.
At this point I think we have proof positive that the UI team does not actually play the game.
Like I said before, in the GD thread, I am pretty much done until this is removed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
161
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:58:00 -
[170] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:And finally, the solar system map, the most atrocious part of this entire mess: WTF?Seriously, WTF?
Oh god I haven't even looked at the map, it is so bad. Seriously revert all of these changes except the predictive menu feature. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5277
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:59:00 -
[171] - Quote
Tooltips for Mass and Inertia are confusing:
Mass Tooltip wrote:Affects acceleration and turning speed negatively as the mass increases
Inertia Modifier wrote:Affects acceleration and turning speed positively as the value decreases
Affects GǪ negatively/positively as GǪ increases/decreases. That's bizarre wording which will confuse people rather than help them. Even worse than the obscure wording is that you are saying exactly the same thing two different ways: "affects A negatively as B increases" and "affects A positively as B decreases". The sentences both mean that there is a negative correlation between A and B (i.e.: A Gê¥ -B). The confusing will arise from the need to hold "affects acceleration and turning speed" in memory while attempting to parse "positively as value decreases". This is because we don't know what the 'affect' is until the second half of the sentence is parsed.
Rephrasing the tooltips in terms of "something I do has some effect" will simplify the wording:
Mass Tooltip wrote:Increasing the mass reduces acceleration and turning speed.
Inertia Modifier Tooltip wrote:Increasing the inertia modifier reduces acceleration and turning speed
The reverse phrasing (to have some effect, I should do something) also works: "To increase acceleration and turning speed, reduce mass."
The original wording would be ideal for a patent application, but is not suitable for an instruction manual, and will be downright dangerous in the UI of a combat vessel.
Redundant tooltips are repeating information that is already presented and are redundant, and bulky tooltips obscure interaction space
As a simple guide, if the tooltip doesn't show me information that isn't already available, I don't want to see it. "Stargate" is redundant. "Stargate / next stargate in route" is moderately useful. The multi-line tooltips for many objects "stacked" in a group on the view area are very useful, except when I'm trying to target things that don't get put in that tooltip (such as spew containers which break the UI norms by being untargetable and causing the ship to alter behaviour when you click on the icon).
We've lost corp/alliance ticker information that used to live in the old tooltips (or "hints" as CCP called them). This used to be configurable, so you could have the object's name, alliance, corp, type and distance on the hint.
The presence of shortcut keys for buttons that have them assigned is valuable. Thank you! Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9764
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:06:00 -
[172] - Quote
Your UI devs ought to be fired. If this is what they come up with then they're not capable of producing the quality of work you need. It's not "there's room for improvement", it's "you ****** up in so many ways including not allowing players to properly test these changes, pushing poorly tested changes onto the live server, obviously not testing these changes yourself, and being pants-on-head ********."
You'd think you'd have learned from the unified inventory fiasco but it's very very clear that you haven't. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5277
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:06:00 -
[173] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens.
I'm on OS X. There are no tooltips for window decorations. We have little red, yellow and green buttons which variously close the window, minimise the window to the dock, or "zoom to fit contents" (which does different things depending on the application's interpretation of "zoom", "fit" and "contents").
Tooltips?
We don't need not steenkin' tooltips!
The OS dumps us at the desktop, gives us a mouse pointer, and tells us, "there's your work environment, go do stuff."
OS X has an insubstantive NPE. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9768
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:09:00 -
[174] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens. You're right, there's a tooltip. And the delay for it is so long that I never knew it was there until you told me, for the many years that I've been using Windows. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6103
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:14:00 -
[175] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens. You're right, there's a tooltip. And the delay for it is so long that I never knew it was there until you told me, for the many years that I've been using Windows.
Yeah, I had to sit there for a while before I realized it, almost like it wasn't trying to cram itself down my gullet like a facehugger. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
470
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:21:00 -
[176] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens. You're right, there's a tooltip. And the delay for it is so long that I never knew it was there until you told me, for the many years that I've been using Windows. You're a more patient man than I am. I gave up after 5 minutes. |
Gaijin Lanis
Astral Silence Surely You're Joking
6
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:23:00 -
[177] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens. There is a level of logic in having tooltips for basic functions in an operating system. As a successful operating system needs to assume that a user of said operating system has never used a computer before.
The entirety of the EVE UI was originally designed in such a way that assumed anyone playing EVE had used a computer before playing EVE. A safe assumption, as it would be rather difficult to play EVE before ever using a computer. But the developers responsible for the new tooltips felt it would be necessary ensure 5th dimensional beings capable of engaging in every sort of possible paradoxical behavior (to our deficient brains) would have no trouble playing EVE before they owned a computer. A decision which I have no grounds to question. Said beings are apparently a large enough demographic to warrant such functionality, as evidenced by the necessity of this patch. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5277
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:24:00 -
[178] - Quote
The solar system map is a little confusing. The mixture of "stacked tips" and speech bubbles doesn't clearly convey any information.
What would work better for me would be "speech bubbles" which contain stacked tips relating to objects that are close to each other (say, within 1AU, or get smarter and group objects together with their superior celestial such as moon, stargate, planet).
In the example provided earlier, the greatest confusion for me is that planets, asteroid belts and bookmarks get a one-line entry with all their details, while moons get a speech bubble with two lines of details.
What would work better for me is having the moons and asteroid belts indented under their respective planets, or even included as a sub-menu after the planet (for example, an entry for "moons" in the planet's contextual menu, which might be a right-click or radial menu depending on your predilections).
The "i" icon for each moon is not necessary, move the "show info" action to the item's contextual menu.
I look forward to seeing a very quick iteration on the tooltips, especially the redundant "Stargate" tooltips, the missing configurable information on player-owned objects in space, and the confusing graphical vocabulary of the solar system map tooltips.
Thankfully the tooltips haven't broken by usual play style. I will still love you tomorrow.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9769
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:25:00 -
[179] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:To everyone complaining that an [X] button on a window shouldn't have a tooltip, please hover over your nearest close window button in any random window and tell me what happens. You're right, there's a tooltip. And the delay for it is so long that I never knew it was there until you told me, for the many years that I've been using Windows. You're a more patient man than I am. I gave up after 5 minutes. It shows up for me after a few seconds. I'm quite sure that I could also find a way to turn them off, although that's probably a registry setting or something. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Kaphrah
Kaphrah Corporation
21
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:30:00 -
[180] - Quote
Well, after an evening of Incursion, I might quote the well known Eve-Online-RMR video here:
crap, crap, megacrap ~
seriously, it was perfectly fine before and now we have fleets of people raging about this. Before, I could put the mouse over a bunch ob objects, they were listed immediately, with live information (range etc), had NO DAMN BLACK BACKGROUND keeping the whole scene off my eyes, and simply click or right click on the object I want.
Now, wait for that thing to pop up (if you have a lot of drones it doesn't even pop up in my client), or sometimes just click the object (somehow not everything has a tooltip, some objects in space have... nothing?), and then try to guess what you were looking for. Alliance/Corp tag etc is somewhere in the middle of everything and it takes ages compared to before to find what you need.
Roll it back to the old system and make the new one optional, not everybody wants giant black informationscreens of death that randomly appear under your mouse, and the TRANSPARENT and IMMEDIATE solution from before didn't need any patches imo. |
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