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Arrs Grazznic
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Arrs Grazznic on 30/05/2006 09:43:46 Hi,
I was rereading the article on Factional Warfare in EON issue 2 the other day when I came across something very interesting. On page 30, Noah Ward (CCP developer) was discussing how the Factional Warfare missions may be constructed on the fly when he mentioned that agent missions are currently dependant on the ship you are in. To quote from the article:
Originally by: Noah Ward "We could even tailor the objectives to your skills and ship in the same way agent missions are currently tailored to the ship you're in (did I just give away a secret?)"
Can anyone shed any light on this? Would this be the ship you are in when you start talking to an agent or the ship you are in when ships spawn? Does fitted equipment make any difference? Is this just a red herring and utter BS?
Any and all speculation welcome!
Cheers, Arrs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "A woman walked into my shop and asked for a double entendreà So I gave her one." |
gordon861
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:01:00 -
[2]
They do appear to change depending on the ship you are in when you get the mission. In the last week I have done the Level 3 - Sabotage the Supply Line mission in both a Cyclone and a Tempest, for the same agent.
Cyclone missions was : Spawn 1 1x Ore Supply Freight 1x Merc Commander 2x Merc Elite Fighters 5x Merc Fighters
Spawn 2 5x Angel Hunters 1x Angel Smasher
Spawn 3 8x Angel Nomads 1x Angel Predator
Spawn 4 1x Angel Predator 1x Angel Crusher 2x Angel Impalers 1x Angel Viper
Tempest Missions was : Spawn 1 1x Ore Supply Freight 1x Merc Commander 2x Merc Elite Fighters 5x Merc Fighters
Spawn 2 4x Angel Ambushers 1x Arch Angel Marauder
Spawn 3 2x Angel Hunters 1x Angel Legionnaire
Spawn 4 1x Angel Depredator 1x Arch Angel Marauder
I never checked the rewards to see if they were the same though, but will keep an eye out for them now. It will also be worth trying to find out if the mission ships are set when you first accept the mission or if each stage is setup depending on what ship you are in when you enter it.
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Paigan
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:09:00 -
[3]
Are you sure this depends on the ship type? I mean are there EVERY TIME 5 hunters with the cyclone and 5 Ambushers with the tempest? Not that it's just composed randomly from some fixed "npc group pool" or such.
Because that's my impression. I get slightly randomized encounters every time with the raven. And i get the same arrangements (randomly) with other ships.
After some estimated thousand mission i did i can't tell much noticeable difference in missions depending on your equipment AT ALL. -- This game is still in beta stage |
Arleonenis
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Posted - 2006.05.30 13:47:00 -
[4]
i didnt noticed any diffences whatever i was sitting in industrial when accepting a mission, ceptor, bs, bc or hac...
I think its either utterly BS or its in but just dont work and devs didnt noticed it yet
Balance in EVE |
gordon861
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Posted - 2006.05.30 14:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arleonenis i didnt noticed any diffences whatever i was sitting in industrial when accepting a mission, ceptor, bs, bc or hac...
I think its either utterly BS or its in but just dont work and devs didnt noticed it yet
My post above shows that there are differences, the only question is whether it's random or taken from you equiped ship or skillpoints (or something else).
I don't think it's just random as the differences in the missions above are quite large.
Spawn 2 1st one : 5x Hunters, 1x Smasher is 125k bounties 2nd one : 4x Ambushers, 1x Marauder is 370k bounties
I know the bounties isn't the best way to compare them.
I do a lot of missions for this agent so I will keep looking for any more variations to this mission.
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Razean
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Posted - 2006.05.30 16:33:00 -
[6]
Most of the missions list your opposition before you even have to accept the mission. There are exceptions, like missions that spawn surprise encounters, but for the most part your opposition is determined at the time you are given the mission.
I would expect there to be a limit to the extent of the tailoring as well. There's surely some minimum and maximum limits to the opposition that gets created for the mission. Getting lvl 3 missions in a Frig isn't going to create a handful of 3-5k isk bounty opponents for you. Getting lvl 1 missions in a BS isn't going to create any cruiser encounters either.
This could potentially be a way to minimize risk for people just starting the next tier of missions though, and a way to ramp up the average difficulty and potential isk bounties for those experienced players looking for a tougher fight.
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Mike Yagon
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Posted - 2006.05.30 16:59:00 -
[7]
Maybe he was just talking about how agents look at what ship you are in and affect the chance of the mission type you're given based upon the ship you're in. When I am in my battleship I get more combat missions, if I talk to the same agent in my industrial I get primarily courier missions.
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343Guiltyspark
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Posted - 2006.05.30 17:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: gordon861
Originally by: Arleonenis i didnt noticed any diffences whatever i was sitting in industrial when accepting a mission, ceptor, bs, bc or hac...
I think its either utterly BS or its in but just dont work and devs didnt noticed it yet
My post above shows that there are differences, the only question is whether it's random or taken from you equiped ship or skillpoints (or something else).
I don't think it's just random as the differences in the missions above are quite large.
Spawn 2 1st one : 5x Hunters, 1x Smasher is 125k bounties 2nd one : 4x Ambushers, 1x Marauder is 370k bounties
I know the bounties isn't the best way to compare them.
I do a lot of missions for this agent so I will keep looking for any more variations to this mission.
I've done the same missions back to back in my Raven and got different spawns. Besides, just what does that mean having them tailored to the ship you are in? Suppose I'm in a shuttle when I accept a level 4 mission? Does that mean it will be cake once I switch to my Raven?
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gordon861
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Posted - 2006.05.30 18:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: 343Guiltyspark
Originally by: gordon861
Originally by: Arleonenis i didnt noticed any diffences whatever i was sitting in industrial when accepting a mission, ceptor, bs, bc or hac...
I think its either utterly BS or its in but just dont work and devs didnt noticed it yet
My post above shows that there are differences, the only question is whether it's random or taken from you equiped ship or skillpoints (or something else).
I don't think it's just random as the differences in the missions above are quite large.
Spawn 2 1st one : 5x Hunters, 1x Smasher is 125k bounties 2nd one : 4x Ambushers, 1x Marauder is 370k bounties
I know the bounties isn't the best way to compare them.
I do a lot of missions for this agent so I will keep looking for any more variations to this mission.
I've done the same missions back to back in my Raven and got different spawns. Besides, just what does that mean having them tailored to the ship you are in? Suppose I'm in a shuttle when I accept a level 4 mission? Does that mean it will be cake once I switch to my Raven?
That is the question we are trying to find the answer to.
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Taketa De
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Posted - 2006.05.31 01:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mike Yagon Maybe he was just talking about how agents look at what ship you are in and affect the chance of the mission type you're given based upon the ship you're in. When I am in my battleship I get more combat missions, if I talk to the same agent in my industrial I get primarily courier missions.
Hmmm, this sounds a lot more likely then that the mission changes according to the ship you are in. --- The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
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dabster
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Posted - 2006.05.31 07:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: gordon861
Originally by: Arleonenis i didnt noticed any diffences whatever i was sitting in industrial when accepting a mission, ceptor, bs, bc or hac...
I think its either utterly BS or its in but just dont work and devs didnt noticed it yet
My post above shows that there are differences, the only question is whether it's random or taken from you equiped ship or skillpoints (or something else).
No your post doenst show that at all. It shows that the mission can come in different flavours, it shows absolutly 0 evidence that your ship has anything at all to do with it.
If you get that missions 10 times in Cyclone and 10 times in Raven, and the spawns are varying according to your post every time, then you might have some evidence. 2 missions means *nothing*. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click. |
Sniper FC
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Posted - 2006.05.31 07:45:00 -
[12]
I remember doing one mission in my mega can't remember which and all the ships were close orbiting between 2-12km so when I got the mission again i fitted blasters, dual web and 2 smarbombs, and to my frustation the all sat and obited me at 26km!!!
this could just the way the mission differ to keep u on ur toes and stop u getting bored!!! ----------------------------------------------- Want to join a fun corp that do most things in eve Join "suicidal" channel and have a chat |
Andrue
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Posted - 2006.05.31 11:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Andrue on 31/05/2006 11:20:36 I don't see how mission selection can be active ship based. It would have to be based on the ship that was active when you applied for a mission. If you are running courier missions you could be sat in a Bestower when a combat mission is chosen.
The only ship based change I can see is in the tactics of the NPCs and additional spawns.
Hmmm. I suppose Deadspace missions could be ship type dependant a well. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
gordon861
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Posted - 2006.05.31 12:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: dabster
Originally by: gordon861
Originally by: Arleonenis i didnt noticed any diffences whatever i was sitting in industrial when accepting a mission, ceptor, bs, bc or hac...
I think its either utterly BS or its in but just dont work and devs didnt noticed it yet
My post above shows that there are differences, the only question is whether it's random or taken from you equiped ship or skillpoints (or something else).
No your post doenst show that at all. It shows that the mission can come in different flavours, it shows absolutly 0 evidence that your ship has anything at all to do with it.
If you get that missions 10 times in Cyclone and 10 times in Raven, and the spawns are varying according to your post every time, then you might have some evidence. 2 missions means *nothing*.
Actually my post DOES show there are differences(both missions are different), it then goes on to question whether these differences are just random or caused by some other factor.
I also say in the rest of mu post that I will keep an eye on these missions in future to see if there are more variations.
The only statement I made in the post you quoted was 'there are differences', you say that it 'doesnt show that at all' and then go onto say the mission 'can come in different flavours'. Please make up you mind.
I have posted the ships I was using for the mission because that was the only 'obvious' difference at the time of getting the misison, this also seemed to backup the information that was quoted earlier from a DEV in the EON magazine.
I only spotted the difference in the mission because I'd been comparing it to the details published elsewhere on the web at the weekend. I will continue to watch for this mission and try to see if a pattern emerges or if it is just random.
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dabster
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Posted - 2006.05.31 15:08:00 -
[15]
gordon you're right, I read too much into your post and replied a bit wrong, apologies if it sounded rude.
Takes note to self AGAIN; Posting before noon/3rd cup of coffee is bad ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click. |
Moose Lee
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Posted - 2006.05.31 17:46:00 -
[16]
From a recent experience, using 2 characters, when I "warped gang" to the mission location, I stopped the character the mission was for before warping, so my 2nd character was at the destination. However the mission NPCs didn't spawn until the char the mission was for was actually warping. I guess the next spawn is probably chosen after you kill the current spawn, since it shows up in your mission briefing immediately after killing the spawn, if you are there or not.
In any case, the point is that the mission drones aren't actually spawned and may not be chosen (except for those in the mission briefing) until you are actively in warp to the location. This may also be true with the missions with warp gates. So the ship you accept the mission in probably wouldn't matter. If the spawns are chosen based on the ship you are in when you warp there, I guess we'll have to see.
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Raider Zero
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Posted - 2006.05.31 19:09:00 -
[17]
I read that dev quote too. I'm thinking that the mission itself my not be random and may be affected by your ship. Maybe it's more likely to get a L3 Angel Extrav in a BC than in a BS or something like that? No evidence, just wondering as the spawns never seem to be different for me-they are always exactly what eveinfo says they are for me.
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2006.06.01 00:21:00 -
[18]
gordon, gordon... i have 9.47 standing to minmatar republic faction (not just some corp standing) and over 7 to gallente faction (dont even remember exactly) I was doing missions lvl3 lvl4 (depend on my mood) in diffrent ships from interceptors (yes lvl4 too) to battleships: raven, domi, typhoon, mega, apocalypse, armageddon, tempest. In battlecruisers (all) and in hacs and in assault frigates, hmmm in destroyers too.
Spawn (overall bounty) change yes, but it change too if you do it only in bs. It change too when you do them only in "hardcore mod" interceptor/AF. I didnt noticed that it change any dramatically. I had same lvl4 mission in ceptor (3 bss + escort) AND exactly same spawn when i was doing it another time in bs, EXACTLY same... (i remember becouse this was only time i lost ceptor in pve... damn phone)
Not that i have "easy mode" doing them in ceptor and hard spawn when i bring apoc or raven. They change yes BUT IMHO randomly so you wouldnt EXACTLY know which ships will show up in which mission. This would be even more boring...
If it was something diffrent (like tailored to ship) i would notice it dont you think? Random mission encounter yes, sometimes "overall bounty" could be even 2x bigger than in same mission other day in same ship.
Oh yes they may be tailored to ship if agent give both courier and combat missions, I cant really tell about it as i was doing missions only for Security and Internal Security. It would be quite possible that he pull courier or combat after checking active ship... but about this part i cant say nothing really
Balance in EVE |
Lorette
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Posted - 2006.06.01 04:18:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lorette on 01/06/2006 04:20:50 Id say its complete bs, ive accepted alot of missions in an indy (since ill scoop the loot and accept the next mission after i re-dock without jumping back into my domi). That mission you described always has random spawns chosen from a 'set'. For example there is a lv4 serpentis mission (forgot the name) that has 5 spawns and they seem to follow this layout.
Spawn 1: 1x group Spawn 2: 1x group + 1x group Spawn 3: 1x group + 1x group Spawn 4: 1x group + 1x group + 1x BS Spawn 5: 1x group + 1x group + 1x group
The groups seem to consist of: group 1: 4x frig (guardian veteran) group 2: 3x cruiser (serpentis rear guard) group 3: 3x Cruiser (serpentis defender) group 4: 1(up to 3)x BS (650k-1.65mill ones)
So for example when i did it yesterday i got
encounter 1: 3x serp rear guard + 3x serp rear guard encounter 2: 4x serp defender + 4x guardian vet + 4x guardian vet encounter 3: 3x serp rear guard encounter 4: 4x guardian vet + 3x serp defender + 1x BS encounter 5: 3x serp rear guard + 3x serp defender
*cant remember the actual cruiser names but they were similar to the ones i put in **I did get the BS 'group' with 3x 1.65mill megathrons once so i guess the ammount of them differs sometimes.
Forgot to add the main reason you can tell this is because in the journal it has them set out like that. So instead of just a 8x guardian veteran line its split into a 4x guardian vet then another 4x guardian vet under that.
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ALUN
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Posted - 2006.06.01 08:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arrs Grazznic Edited by: Arrs Grazznic on 30/05/2006 09:43:46 Hi,
I was rereading the article on Factional Warfare in EON issue 2 the other day when I came across something very interesting. On page 30, Noah Ward (CCP developer) was discussing how the Factional Warfare missions may be constructed on the fly when he mentioned that agent missions are currently dependant on the ship you are in. To quote from the article:
Originally by: Noah Ward "We could even tailor the objectives to your skills and ship in the same way agent missions are currently tailored to the ship you're in (did I just give away a secret?)"
Can anyone shed any light on this? Would this be the ship you are in when you start talking to an agent or the ship you are in when ships spawn? Does fitted equipment make any difference? Is this just a red herring and utter BS?
Any and all speculation welcome!
Cheers, Arrs.
I Read that article too, the way i interpreted it was .. along time ago (think in castor) the type of mission you were offerd was dependent on the class of ship you were in at the time of asking for the mission (from what i heard) and it didnt have anything to do with the actuall number/type of ships you got in a mission, just the mission its self.
You ask for mission in a frig your gonna get a small mission , ask in a bs you would get a big mission.
Now afaik , that "feature" got removed along time ago also, not sure why but heard that courier mission runners kept asking for missions in thier frigs to get a small hauling mission then change to indy after. So now when you ask for a mission it doesnt matter what ship your in its all random.
So after reading that article i assumed that Noah Ward was either a. referring to how it used to work , or b. didnt realise that feature wasnt in anymore.
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Brazero
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Posted - 2006.06.01 10:10:00 -
[21]
Back in the days right after Exodus, when we first got lvl4 missions, ppl noticed a small difference in mission layout. There was a thread or two here on the forums, and a dev (Zrakor?) told us that the ship we were in when accepting the mission had nothing to do with it.
A similar quetion was asked when they introduced Mordu's Headhunters and Sabotaged, this was maybe 2 months before Exodus. The answer was the same. Current ship has nothing to do with the mission you get.
I have resently done Pirate slaughter with from 1 to 13 battleships, and I fly a Zealot and nothing else.
So I guess there is a randomness buildt in somewhere. |
HolographicEntrypoint
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Posted - 2006.06.01 19:20:00 -
[22]
Maybe you just won't get a 400m¦ hauling mission when you ask for one in a 100m¦ frig etc. ---
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